Europe in May 2013 - suggestions

How old are you and your husband? It's possible a railpass might be a good deal if you qualify for a youth saver pass, otherwise...it's tricky. A general railpass will give you the flexibility that you want, in theory, but in many of the places you're traveling, you'll need to make seat reservations on the high speed trains which can cost significantly more and you may need to reserve days in advance to get the train you want. I understand the appeal of not wanting a set schedule, but flexibility costs money. You generally won't be able to get the best deals on hotels if you don't reserve in advance. It doesn't mean you can't find something reasonable, but it's up in the air. May isn't high season, but unexpected things like conferences or festivals in locations can mean you end up in a crowded area where the affordable options are booked up. I would consider at least booking some of your hotels in advance in places where finding decent, affordable accommodation is tricky - like Paris and Vienna. If you're already done a lot in Germany, Italy, and France, why not nix those places from your list? East is cheaper. And I think wanting to hit all the places on this list in 4 weeks is totally unrealistic - 12 locations in 28 days works out to just more than 2 days per stop, and many of these places have long journeys inbetween. Why not focus on Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Croatia? If it were me I'd throw Bratislava, Montenegro, and Bosnia into that as well. You'd be able to craft a train iternary that progressed logically without too much travel time inbetween destinations.

We plan on getting the Global Saver 1 month pass and do realize that High speed trains require reservations with supplements. we will spend from 1 to 3 days in a location and really love the journey as well as the destination. We have "discovered" some really great little towns along our way on previous trips. Not getting to a location the list is no problem for us - we just call that a reason to return! I realize the list is pretty big but is general route - hence the no reservations. If we really like a place and want to stay longer we can. Heck we've been to Spain 3 times before and this will be our first time in Barcelona! We are very flexible and have no problem changing destinations at the last minute. We are mainly looking to get an overview of each area to determine if we want to return at a later date for a longer stay. We are also big fans of night trains and tend to use them for longer journeys.

It sounds like you and husband have already developed your travel style and methodology. Don't let anyone talk you out of it. Like you, I also agree that travel from one location to the other is an important part of the adventure, and not a waste of time.
You asked for suggestions along your proposed route. Since you're travelling from Croatia to Vienna, you might want to do some research on Slovenia. I haven't been there yet, but everytone I've talked to has loved it there. It's high on my list for 2014.

Cristine: Howdy. Sounds likd a fun and ambitious trip. I envy the time you will have. 10 Cities and 30 days means you will have a couple of short stays or, since you dont plan, a few long stays and few stays for the next vacation. I like that reasoning. You are a bit scattered across Central Europe. I tried to construct an automobile route on Google Maps and cae up with 3,800km in 38 hours of driving. By train that could be over 50 hours plus station time and transfers. I'm not saying its a bad idea. Just pointing out. If it sounds too ambitious then you might concentrate more on just one region like France, Belgium and the Neatherlands (England works in nicely here because of the high speed train Paris to London). Or Switzerland Austria and northern Italy. Or Germany, Austria, Hungary. Or get more exotic and do Austria, Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria. In the areas that you mention that i am familiar with the train tickets will be fairly inexpensive and you can purchase them when needed. For instance Vienna budapest was under 30 euro if you bought them a couple of days before, last time i checked. If the Romanian, Bulgaria thing sounds interesting I wouldnt do long distance trains in those countries. But i can give you some other suggestions. Also in one of the areas you are heading Slovakia is convenient and we discovered in the past few years that it is a place we keep going back to. Budapest is my speciality so if you think you will end up there let me know i can give you some tips on last minute accomodations, etc; and I know good resources or Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria. Where have you been and what did you like and not like and maybe we can come up with some suggestions.

Thanks so much for the replies so far. Well...the best laid plans. Just read that my very first train has been canceled! The Elipsos Hotel train from Barcelona to Milan - not sure if that is a seasonal thing or canceled permanently. If a permanent change I'l have to re-route - really bummed cause I was looking forward to that train. :( I know wed are pretty ambitious - fortunately several of the cities are 3 - 3.5 hr train rides which we really enjoy. We can see the country side and spend time just relaxing - which my husband can't do if we drive. I will carry the rail schedule with me cause you never know when we change our minds! It also is very helpful in planning the next leg of the journey - I really hope Thomas Cook comes out with the Kindle version by spring! We love good food, good wine, history, architecture, & local color. We tend to stay away from the touristy areas and are not shoppers. When it comes to sights we are "ninja's" - fast strikes! I know I would be perfectly happy with a day in Milan - long enough to see the Last Supper, the Duomo & piazza and have a nice meal! Probably a day & a half in Venice - if its like I hear it is! I will have to look harder at Slovenia & Slovakia - may do a little re-work

The views out of the window traveling by train in Slov and Slovak will be interesting. South or East of Vienna I wouldnt want to ride a night train. As romantic as the trains are you might try one of the european discount airlines between regions. Wizzair, Ryan, etc. If you are nto into the touristy areas then stay away for Prague and Vienna is only marginally better. Good wine?: Hungary.

Christine, I'd need to take some time to look at the details, but my initial impression is that this Itinerary is rather "ambitious" for a 28 day time frame. You'll lose a day at the beginning and end for flight days, leaving 26 days for touring. Visiting 12 cities will allow a bit over two days in each city, with no allowance for travel times, which may be challenging given that you're covering a fairly wide geographical area. While it may be feasible, I doubt that it will be a relaxing holiday. Good luck with your planning!

For Venice "must see's" I wouldn't presume to know what rings your chimes. Find a good guidebook (The one by the chap who sponsors this Helpline is a pretty decent one for Venice) because to list all the churches and museums and neighborhoods that we return to year after year would take pages and pages and we only get 2000 characters here. See what appeals and we can then help you mould that into an experience. We mostly wander the back calles and rios and rio terres and campos, and gently stroll, well away from the crowds. If you've never been, the wandering, the getting lost is so much of the magic. I worry if you have a guide you won't get lost and experience the most beautiful city on Earth for yourselves. See my previous post.

Do I really need both Vienna & Salzburg?
Which to keep? Steak and eggs. Which do you keep, San Francisco or LA? They are completely different - you need to see what appeals to you about both and weigh in the balance.

Christine, A few further thoughts after reading your latest posts..... The easiest and quickest way to get from Barcelona to Milan would be a budget flight. For example, EasyJet offers four flights a day on that route in mid-May, with fares currently as low as €17.99 (plus fees of course). An afternoon flight would get you to Milan in time for dinner. Returning home from Paris would be a great idea! Whether to choose Vienna or Salzburg is a difficult choice. Salzburg has lots to see aside from the S.O.M. sights. The most challenging area to work out transportation will likely be Croatia. The majority of Ferries seem to go only to Ancona or Bari (but I haven't checked recently). You could consider a route along these lines: > Barcelona (Flight to MXP) > Milan (train to Venice, 2H:35M) > Venice (train to Zagreb, easiest appears to be a Bus/Train combination, 8H:47M, 1 change in Villach) > Zagreb (train to other Croatia city? Train back to Zagreb and then Budapest - time 6H:50M if direct train) > Budapest (train to Vienna - as short as 2H:50M if direct train) > Vienna (Train to Prague, as short as 4H:45M if direct train) > Prague (Train to Berlin, ~4h:47M direct) > Berlin (Train to Amsterdam, ~6H:25M, 1 change in Hilversum) > Amsterdam (Train to Bruges, ~3H:10M, 1 change) > Bruges (Train to Paris, ~2H:37M, 1 change, arrive Gare du Nord). > Paris > Flight home This is still somewhat "busy", with 11 cities so it only allows a few days in each place. A few places may have to be cut. The outlier seems to be Croatia, as transportation is more of an issue. There are lots of ways this could be structured, so this is only one suggestion. Cheers!

A couple of thoughts - If you want to see the Last Supper you can't just rock up and go. It takes planning because there are only limited spaces which must be reserved well ahead or pay through the nose for a tour company which includes a visit among a number of other things for way more money. Venice can be what you want it to be or what you allow it to be. Based on what you have said get thee around Dorsoduro and Campo S Barnaba, and up around F Nuova, and out by the tail.

A little more info - we are arriving in Barcelona on the NCL Epic after the 11 transatlantic cruise - so no jet lag to recover from. I already have reservations in Barcelona for three nights and was planning on taking the night train from Barcelona to Milan which would put me in Milan on a Sunday. I am now checking alternatives to that since it has been canceled. :( I will be purchasing my tickets for the Last Supper online far in advance. For Venice I think we may hire a guide and do a walking tour. If we self tour Venice what is not to be missed? Has anyone taken a ferry from Venice to Croatia? Any info on that? Which of the norther coastal tows would be a good choice?

I understand the idea of doing a trip of short stays to get a better idea of where you'd like to return to - I did a 13 night trip with a lot of travel in a similar way in October, most of our stays were 1 night, our longest stay was 3 nights, lots of transit time. I'm glad we got to see a lot, and I discovered places I definately want to go back to and explore more, and places that I'm glad I saw but probably won't be returning to any time soon. That said, it was an exhausting pace for 2 weeks, so keeping up that pace for 4 weeks might be a challenge. Trains can be relaxing (I also love train travel) but they can also be crowded, uncomfortable, and frustrating, and waiting at train stations is rarely a relaxing experience. Just something to keep in mind. If I were you I'd still think about narrowing the geographic focus just a little. Those are all great destinations but they are really "all over the map" - James makes a good point about total travel time. There are also a lot of great places to see near other places you're going to - if you're going from Berlin to Prague, stopping in Dresden or Lepzig makes sense. I would definatley consider stopping in Bratislava if you're going between Vienna and Budapest, or Slovenia if you're going from Austria to Croatia. But adding those stops would necessitate getting rid of other destinations. So I think the key to this trip would be to research, research, research and try to get a general idea of what's appealing around and inbetween the various destinations you're going to, that will give you informed flexibility once you're on the road.

Amsterdam & Brugge could easily be cut. My thought is to end in Paris - take a night train from Berlin to Paris & spend a couple days hanging out. We have been to Paris about 6 times but I just can't imagine going to Europe and not stopping in Paris! We could then fly home from there. Do I really need both Vienna & Salzburg?
Which to keep?

Vienna vs. Salzburg: Unless you're big Sound of Music fans, pick Vienna. Much more to see and do there, and the tourist hordes are more diffused over a wider area. Given your travel style, flexibility, and experience, I don't think your itinerary is too ambitious. It would be for me, and for many others, but you've evidently thought it through and you can adjust as you proceed. I love Paris and wouldn't miss a chance to revisit! And, as RS advises, "assume you will return" to anywhere you missed or wanted to see more of.

You guys are awesome. You've given me lots to consider - keep the suggestions coming! Losing the Barcelona - Milan night train really bummed me out - perhaps a cheap flight would work out best. Fortunately I have a little time to research - and a great wealth of knowledge here.

Cristine, since you like Paris, fly Delta or Air France to Paris, lay over a few days then move on. Circle around what you want to see and then fly back out of Paris after another few days there. From Paris you can slso fly to a lot of europe at fairly reasonable rates. i suggest this but personslly i detest Chucky D airport so much that i wont land there. I do something similar a few times a year but I use Budapest as a hub.

We are taking an 11 night transatlantic cruise from Miami to Barcelona. We find train travel far more relaxing than air travel. You can arrive 10 - 30 minutes before your train (depending on the size of the station), no security lines to deal with, find your place on the platform and board. I always have Thomas Cooks Rail Guide - I am hoping they come out with a Kindle edition. There have been times when we literally stood in a train station and looked at the board and got on the next train leaving!