Europe in 36 days Itinerary help!

WAY too much, 16 places in 36 days. "Two days" , you mean "two nights," and two nights is max of 1.5 days of actual time in city. You will be surprised how checking out of hotel, going to train station, travelling, then finding hotel and checking in at next destination will eat into your time. Skip quite a few places. List WHY you want to go somewhere and what you would see there, unless you are made of money its not worth that much jumping around. Travel time eats into almost every other day. I would narrow list down to 6-8 places . PS some of your list is way too vague "Tuscany and Umbria" ,, a whole area , in two days..

Thanks for pointing that out. I was thinking it might be a bit much but Rick Steves makes it sound so easy and doable! I'll go back and figure out which places are more important to me. This was just a preliminary list based on Rick's recommendations. Back to the drawing board I go...

Viet, when you mentioned "Tuscany & Umbria" I interpreted it differently from Pat, that you want to visit this area but don't know yet where you want to stay. All in all, this is a very ambitious itinerary. If you want to keep it, why not move Amsterdam to a spot after London, and then fly out of Berlin? This will save you some time. Also, if you go to Rome after Florence/Tuscany & Umbria, then to Venice, it makes more sense logistically. From Venice you can take a train (long trip) to Vienna (I think there's an overnight train but I don't like to travel overnight) and pick up the remainder of your itinerary (I'm suggesting you loop through Italy, where train travel is relatively inexpensive). As for cutting out Tuscany & Umbria, since you're going to Florence anyway, you could spend an extra day in Florence with a daytrip to Siena or Assisi (personally I love Italy so I'd leave that part intact). As Pat pointed out, you'll only have about 1.5 days in each 2-day city. That's probably enough to hit the highlights, but I would prefer more time in each place and start planning the next trip.

36 days is a marathon, not a sprint, and you need to pace yourself. You've basically just welded three 12-day trips together. You can still cover a lot of ground, obviously, but periods of athletic sightseeing need to be followed by slower time. You'll have a much better trip. Consider hunkering down for 4 days (or 5. Or a week, you've got enough time to do that) in one place, like Tuscany, where there is a lot to see and experience. That will let you regroup and take up the sprint again.

When I can make it work my favorite way to vacation is to pick a couple of regional hubs to work from. Prague, Amsterdam and Vienna are good for example. I'm not suggesting this itinerary because everyone's tastes are different, but as an example; London 3 two nights some place near London, maybe Bath, Oxford, etc London 3 Paris 3 two nights someplace near Paris Paris 3
Amsterdam 3 Well you get the idea. This way you get a cross section of city, town and villages and you don't run yourself as ragged. Most hotels will let you check out and store the bulk of your luggage while you are on your side trips. Check out the European discount airlines and trains to get between hubs. Time is important so go the quickest you can afford but remember a 2 hour air flight can be a 5.5 hour hotel to hotel trip which might be the same as a 3.5 hour train trip. Depends on the airports, etc.

Another point Viet is that although some of Ricks tours are that fast paced, the transport is all arranged for you. When you check out of a hotel you just walk outside , hop on the bus, and you are then straight on your way, perhaps with a stop to see a place while in transport to next overnight spot. When you are travelling indendently all the work of planning from a to b is yours, meaning as I said the getting to the train, then train to hotel, and for longer hauls , using the cheap airlines is a good option, but add an hour(minimum, even for inter-europeon flights) for check in and security screenings, and then possibily having to wait for checked luggage etc, then transport into the city itself. Travel just to a city 4 hours away can take 7 or 8 hours of your day , from the time you leave hotel to the time you are actually able to sightsee in new city.
Also as noted, you can check out of a hotel, leave your luggage, and go and see one or two other sites if you have a later in day train or flight, but then you still have to return to hotel to retrieve luggage.

Since this is your first trip to Europe, you are not familiar with how tiring traveling day after day after day can be. Just getting around, when you are dealing with other languages, can be a challenge. You should trim this list WAY down, perhaps concentrating on one or two countries instead of eight. You will have much better experience if you are not always on the move. As it is, you haven't really allowed enough time to see anything once you get to each place.

Thanks to all for your wonderful advice! It's a good thing I don't leave for Europe for another 5 months so I still have plenty of time to plan this trip. Just so you all don't think I am crazy this is the original 2 month itinerary from Rick that I used as a template: http://www.transitionsabroad.com/publications/magazine/0307/rickstevesonfirsteuropeantrip.shtml I found it in his "Europe Through the Back Door" book. He prefaces it saying: "Let's assume you have two months, plenty of energy, and a desire to see as much of Europe as is reasonable...If I were planning my first European trip and wanted to see as much as I comfortably could in two months (and I had the experience I now have to help me plan), this is the trip I'd take."

Viet, it sounds like you really are not sure where you want to go but want to see as much of Europe as you can in your time frame, not at all unusual for first trip to Europe and can be hard to resist. If that is the case I would suggest that instead of taking RS 2-month itinerary and cutting it down that you take his 1-month itinerary, do some further research on where (and what) you want to see and add days where needed. And be sure to add in some "downtime" just vegging and people-watching, picnicing in the parks, etc. Cut down on place-to-place travel as much as possible and do day trips from a base town. Good luck on your research.

Hi Nancy,
You are right in that my plan was to see as much of Europe as possible but it sounds like it may not be the most efficient use of time. Do you know where I might find Rick's 1 month sample itinerary? I have both the "Through the Back Door" and "Best of Europe" book and I don't see it mentioned in any of those books or his website (google search provided no help either). I only see the Western Europe in 23 days sample itinerary and that is pretty hectic as well! Thanks.

Viet, a few years ago I took a 30-day trip through five countries in southern Europe. I overnighted in 13 different places, plus an overnight train and ferry. That's an average of 2.3 days per location. I had a great time, and was ready to keep going by the end. To my advantage, however: I was a young buck of 26, was an experienced European traveler, had been to three of those countries before, and spoke a bit of those languages. That being said, it's certainly possible for an energetic first-timer to enjoy a fast paced trip, and you can do five or six countries in 36 days. Where to trim can be a tough choice. Go on bahn.com to get more precise figures for train travel time: the Rhine to Berlin is 5-6 hours, Berlin to Amsterdam is 6-7 hours. Among these destinations, Rome is so chock full of great stuff, it deserves four nights. Berlin, three nights, and Paris, at least three. Good luck!

Okay so after thinking it over I am still reluctant to do any major cuts. I still want to follow the route of this itinerary since it allows me to see most of Europe. What if instead of doing 5 weeks with this itinerary I stretched it out to 7 weeks? Now the schedule would look like this: London (5 days) Paris (4 days) Madrid (3 days) Barcelona (3 days) Cinque Terre (3 days) Florence (3 days) Hill towns of Tuscany & Umbria (3 days) Rome (4 days) Venice (4 days) Vienna (3 days) Prague (3 days) Munich (3 days) Rothenburg/Romantic Road (1 day) Rhine (2 days) Berlin (3 days)
Amsterdam (3 days) What do you think? Would 2 nights (3 days) in some of these cities suffice or is it still too rushed? If it is still too rushed them I might just do 5 weeks and just do London, France, Spain and Italy.

You're misinterpreting how to calculate days and nights. Two nights in a location really only yields 1 full day, since both of the other days will be traveling days. Don't underestimate the time it takes to check out, get the airport/train station, travel to your destination, make your way to your hotel, and check in. Do you really want to do that every other day for 7 weeks? I know it's tempting to try to see everything, but there's a lot more to Europe than the "greatest hits," and there's no way to see it all in a month or two. I'd suggest you try to focus your interests. I don't know where the 1 month or 2 month itineraries are, but here's a link to RS Europe in 3 weeks, but what you might find more helpful is the destination prioritizing at the bottom of the page which goes all the way up to 45 days. Note, though, that he says it allows about 2 nights in each destination, which is that fast-pace you're looking at, but doesn't allow the 5 days in London or 4 days in Paris or Rome. If it were me, I'd try and spend a week in one location between several shorter stays in other locations to give yourself a break from all that fast-paced travel(ie: one week in Rome, then 3 nights Vienna, 3 nights in Prague, 3 nights in Munich, then one week in Berlin). Another thing to consider is how many cities you are seeing as compared to smaller countryside towns. You don't want to overwhelm yourself; you can only see so many monuments, museums, and castles before they start to lose meaning. FWIW, I think RS's itineraries are far too fast. I'd start by trying to figure out what your goals are for this trip, and don't say "see as much of Europe as possible in 5 weeks." Figure out what you want to get out of your trip and then establish your itinerary from there.

Viet, Your proposed Itinerary is far too ambitious, especially for a first trip (IMHO). While it may be possible, it's going to be exhausting won't allow much time for touring. A few thoughts..... > London - 5 days is good, as that will allow time to get over jet lag and perhaps take a day trip. > Paris - the trip from London will take at least 6 hours, so you'll only have a couple of days there. Adding more time would be worthwhile. > Madrid - the 2.5 hour flight will in reality take at least 6 hours, as you'll have to include time to & from airports, check-in, security, waiting, etc. That means you'll only have about a day in Madrid. > Barcelona - the trip from Madrid will take about 4 hours, when all is considered, leaving only about 1.5 days for touring. > Cinque Terre - which airport will you be arriving at in Italy? From there you'll need to travel by train to the Cinque Terre. Again, this will take at least half a day, leaving only a bit more than a day for touring. > Florence - you'll only have about 1.5 days. > Tuscany & Umbria - these are regions, and there's no way you'll be able get any meaningful touring done in 2 days. If seeing more of Tuscany is important, add at least a day in Florence and take a day trip to Siena. > Rome - there's a LOT to see there, so 2.5 days is not enough. > Vienna - this trip will be about 6 hours > Prague & Munich - is 1.5 days each worth all the travelling? Both need more time! > Rothenburg - You're not going to see much with about half a day. > Rhine - which part of the Rhine are you planning to visit? > Berlin - again, only about 1.5 days for touring. > Amsterdam - trip from Berlin is ~6 hours. I'd suggest reducing your number of stops. Good luck with your planning!

An itinerary such as this is not for the faint of heart but can be a fantastic adventure for those who ambitious! Our first trip to Europe we spent 3 nights in Paris, night train hotel to Frankfurt (we did not tour there),day in Koblenz, Aschaffenburg 1 nt, Bamberg 1 nt, Potsdam 1 nt, Scherwin 1 nt, Schleswig 1 nt, night train hotel to Munich - 5 hrs in Munich then on to Lindau 1 nt, train to Frankfurt, hotel train to Paris then on to Calais, ferry to Dover and coach to London for 3 nights. This was done in 16 days plus 2 days for travel there & home. This trip we "saw" a lot of Germany - mostly from the train - we did Our next trip was Rome 3 nts, train to Pisa 1 nt, Chiusi 1 nt, we spent one day on the train traveling back south to Rome the east to the Adriatic coast then north up the coast - the plan was to get to Bologna in time for the night train to Munich but a strike delayed us and we missed the train to Munich - spent the night in the Bologna train station with about a 100 school girls (mostly brits) that had been in Bologna for a Jamiroquoi concert, on to Munich and Fussen 1 nt, Ulm 1 nt, Geneva 1 nt, day in Lausaune on to Dijon 2 nts, Colmar 1 nt, day trip to Baccarat 1 nt Paris then tgv to Avignon 1 nt, Antibe 1 nt, Bordeaux 1 nt, Blois 1 nt, day in Ambois & tours then to Paris CDG airport. Our first trip we had reservations everywhere, our 2nd we only had reservations for Rome - the rest we pretty much made it up as went along - there was usually a story of why we chose to go where we did! We have also done trips where we we stay in one location for 5 - 7 days at a time as well. Both are great trips - just different. If you are up to the challenge I say do it! We did get to see a lot more things the 2nd trip - the 1st trip we really spent seeing the landscape and spent some time in smaller out of the way places.

Viet, I agree with Will, it all depends on your energy level and your willingness to move around a lot. When I was in my 20s, 30s and 40s that was fine with me, I'd spend four or five months in Europe (before the Schengen rule) with an average of two nights in each city (Rome got more time). Now I would not spend fewer than three nights anywhere, and preferably five nights. But it depends on you. I think it's great that you can stretch it to 7 weeks. For the cities you listed in Italy, no train trip is more than 4 hours (Venice to Rome), so you won't lose a whole day to travel. As I said in the previous post, that would mean switching Venice and Rome in your current itinerary, which makes more sense and elimintes a major backtracking trip from Rome, unless you can't get a flight from Venice to Vienna. Have a great trip, whatever you decide.

Part 2 During your planning make a specific list of what you want to see in each stop then check your time allotment for that city. Don't forget to include time to just stop and absorb the area - a glass of local wine or coffee in an outdoor cafe or browse a local market. In Spain - do Tapas, the stroll, then late night dinner. In Paris try to visit the Eiffel Tower at twilight to get views of the city in light & dark, for a 3 day visit skip the Louvre - visit a smaller museum - the Orsay or Rodin or Jacquemart-Andre(the mini louvre). Cinque Terre is a great place to pause - more a place to experience than to sight see - pick one town (with a laundromat)and stay there visit the others. You should pick one Tuscany or Umbria - stay in a hill town. Romantic Rd - Neuschwanstein is exceptional - not to be missed.

Part 3 We love train trips like this - I don't know if you've looked at a rail/car pass. Train travel is much easier than air - we usually get off the train and are able to walk & find a reasonable, nice (3 star is my minimum)hotel near the train station. The packing folders or zippered bags are essential when traveling like this - keeps the suitcase neat as you rarely unpack. We do this in one carry on & back pack each - I am excited for my upcoming trip as I will have all of my tour books on Kindle - that will reduce my weight greatly! A current Thomas Cook rail guide is a must have. Bring a supply of baggies for picnics or snacks on the train - not all trains have food service - check your rail guide. Will you be making reservations ahead of time for each stop or just finding something upon arrival? If you are not making advance reservations you might consider renting an EU mobile hotspot to check out hotels at your next stop from the train. I am in the planning stage of a 28 day trip for May 2013 and am doing a similar trip as you. Some folks can't fathom traveling in this manner - don't let them discourage you. Have fun both planning & doing!

Thank you all so much for your valuable insights! I am glad I posted on this message board full of experienced travelers. I am still undecided at this point how to approach this trip (i.e. more places, quicker stays vs less places, longer stays). I am leaning toward the more places, quicker stays kind of trip. I will read through more of the guidebook this week and make a list of what I want to do in each area and go from there. At the very least if I get tired of switching trains and traveling so much early on I can always switch up and do longer stays. Christine – I am hoping to make some reservations before I leave but not all. I'd like to be able to keep things flexible in case I want to spend more/less time in certain areas. I will be embracing the one bag philosophy and carrying light. I am planning on buying a Eurail pass and will be doing most of the trip by train. Although I will be flying in situations where the overnight train will take 14 hours (paris to Madrid) vs a 2.5 hr flight. I will also be in Europe in May 2013 so maybe I'll run into you! For anyone who's done a longer stint in Europe (say 5- 8 weeks) did you get tired of traveling during your trip? I am afraid that by the 5th or 6th week I might get really homesick or just tired of traveling in general.

Viet, A Railpass may or may not be the most cost effective option for your trip. You'll have to do some "number crunching" to compare the cost of P-P tickets vs the Railpass. Keep in mind that Railpasses DO NOT include the cost of compulsory reservations on the premium trains, so you'd have to pay separately for those. You may be able to get an approximate idea by using the RailSaver website. You could also download the free PDF Railpass Guide from this website. Given your home location, you may find it VERY helpful to take a drive to Edmonds one day and speak with one of Rick's knowledgeable and well travelled experts. They offer Travel Consultations at the office, and spending a few bucks on a that may save you a lot of money and help you to work out an efficient and realistic Itinerary. It's difficult to answer your question about "getting tired of travel" after 5 or 6 weeks, as everyone is different in that regard. I find that two months is about my "limit" and at that time "travel fatigue" is starting to set-in and I'm ready to come home. Cheers!

Viet, I think that you can, indeed, plan a whirlwind first trip to Europe. Here's what I would do: stick to the cities, as they give you the most cost/time-efficient way to get from points A to B. So, I'd keep London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Florence, Venice, Rome, Vienna, Prague, Munich, Berlin and Amsterdam. This will allow you to allocate enough days to each to actually enjoy your visits and sight-seeing opportunities. Are you planning on staying in hostels? If yes, hostels in the bigger cities usually offer interesting and budget-friendly day-trips out, giving you a no-frills and easy way to get a taste for the countryside and smaller towns. If you're heading onwards too quickly, you really miss out on these opportunities. Most of these you won't find out about until you are actually there. You do want to give yourself the chance to "do"/experience stuff while there, instead of always packing up and moving on every 2nd or 3rd day. And it's true: a "travel" day is mostly a "lost" day... at best, you lose a minimum of half-a-day. Seriously, I didn't visit the Cinque Terre until my 3rd trip to Italy. I ended up falling in love with Florence instead and was glad to have had enough days allocated to Florence on my first trip. (Check out Academy Hostel in Florence, BTW). If you like Italy, you'll go back. For your next trips to Europe, you will then be much more inclined to do more "regional" planning; like a 10-day trip to Tuscany/Umbria, that includes the Cinque Terre. Besides which, life (ie work, family, etc.) will probably eventually force you to take that approach anyways later on. ;-)

Viet - you are my kind of traveler. I have been 10 times and usually approach each trip similar to you in terms of shorter stays. Don't let all of these other posts throw you off. They have some good points, but their style might be different than you. For some people to stay in one town a week and soak it all in is what they enjoy but for me (and sounds like you too) a day or two gives me the general idea and I am ready to go see the next place. So my advice to you is do what you want to do. In my opinion, your itinerary looks very doable. Enjoy!!

I am planning the same type of trip. I found that costs were more of an issue with movement. I cut Berlin out because it was so far east from everything else. I'm on the fence about cutting London due to price. If funds aren't an issue, I say go for it! At least your not dragging 4 kids around :) I believe traveling is like eating out. Some people want a fine dining experience to savor and remember each and every flavor. Others want a sampler platter, to enjoy each item in the moment, maybe not remembering every detail but just the best and worst of the entire experience. Everyone has a different goal. If your goal is to see the world before you die and you have 6 months left to live, I say cram it all in! :) What do you want out of this trip? Memories to last a lifetime or to just check things off your bucket list. Neither is wrong just different. :)

I feel the above cities need at least this many NIGHTSto do it justice. London: 4 nights Paris: 4 nights Madrid: 3 nights Barcelona: 3 nights Cinque Terre: 2 nights Florence: 3 nights Siena: 2 nights Assisi: 2 nights Venice: 3 nights Rome: 4 nights Vienna: 3 nights Prague: 3 nights Munich: 3 nights Rothenburg: 2 nights Rhine: 2 nights Berlin: 3 nights
Amsterdam: 3 nights Anything less than this, is a crime, even on the most whirlwind trip. On this trip, if you can't expand your days, I would cut out The Rhine, Cinque Terre, Umbria (Assisi), and add them to the bigger cities.

Hi, I would suggest cutting out two places, say Rothenburg ob der Tauber and Madrid, to streamline the trip. Add the extra time to Vienna. Your trip is doable but more effectively with some "ifs"... if you keep most of train rides between 2-4 hrs so you arrive at the latest by noon,.. if you're willing to take a night train (Berlin-Amsterdam or Rome to Vienna),.. if you stay within walking distance of the train station so that you don't have to depend on public transportation/taxi for getting to the train station on time for a 0700 or 0800 departure...if you basically time the days' activities accurately and, still, set aside some "down-time" for yourself. As for getting "terribly homesick" or fatigued after six weeks: that depends on your travel style, sleep (whether on the train, or in accomodations, the amount of luggage, etc. I've been away in Europe anywhere from three to twelve weeks, mostly solo, never got homesick, or have this yearning to come back...tired yes, but not burned out. There is always someplace you can pick to go depending on your time and finances.

For a first timer or anyone trying to see as much as possible in Europe I would think Rick's "home base" strategy would be a good idea. That way you can see a lot without changing hotels frequently. The trains are efficient enough to make day tripping practical. You can stay in a big city for a few nights and use one of those days for a day trip to town A, town B, town C, then back to your hotel in the city. I was thinking of doing this with my fiance who is a first timer, although I also want to do some things in depth so we will probably do a little of both approaches (in depth in a couple of areas and some cities with day trips). To give an example, you could stay in London 3 or 4 nights and spend one full day on a multi-stop day trip to Oxford, Stratford-Upon-Avon, and Bath. A lot of people try and discourage "whirlwind" travel, but it's hard for a first timer or very eager traveller who has not been to Europe in a long time to narrow down and itinerary with so many exciting places to see. I think the home base approach is a very efficient idea to see as much as possible in the time that you have. You will of course be limited to one area, relatively close to a big city, but you can always tour in more depth and other areas when you return in the future less anxious to cover so much ground. You mention Florence and Tuscany... Florence is a great "home base" for Tuscany. Choose 2 or 3 places in Tuscany you want to see and make it a day trip from Florence.

Regarding the general concept: You said you're going to do some more rethinking. Good. You said you're going to reread 'the guidebook'. Bad. You said you'd probably use a eurail pass. Probably bad. You said you'll see most of europe. Dead wrong. What you've done is read one series of guidebooks and focused on what seems neat. Read some others - - your ideas will change and some places will undoubtedly disappear. You're asking others how long you should spend in each place. Ask yourself what you want to see in each place and how long it will take to do it. Go from there. If you only want to see one thing in a place, it's probably not worth the trouble to go there. Study up on what's between some of the places on your list - - you might find you like them better and that it's not worth the trouble to haul hat, ass, and overcoat to the next place after all. Regarding logistics: Pay real close attention to what others have said about displacement times. A move burns a half day. What's left? Is it enough to do what you have in mind. Have you figured out the total internal transportation cost? Does this fit your budget? You think you can get from Rome to Vienna in a hour and a half. Nope, door-to-door you can't do it in six hours. You've studied up on how far the airports are from the center city and how the local transportation works, right? The same for Paris to Madrid - - dwadle and catch the ten o'clock flight and you'll hit your hotel in time to wash your teeth before supper. Related question - - where's the CT airport - - Lucca, Pisa? How long does it take to get from either to the CT? How do you do the Romantic Road by train? Keep thinking. Especially about the 'most of europe' idea. That's the one that's really kicking you in the teeth.

I like Kelly's suggestion. In fact, I might use it as a reference for my next trip.

I agree with Diane and Charles' posts. We've done slow trips and fast trips. A couple yrs ago (I was 51) we moved around a lot, staying in 12 different places in 7 wks, some with long train days (love trains so it was enjoyable). I was never worn out, and could have easily kept going at the end of the 7 wks. Everyone is different. There is no one way to do it. But you have gotten lots of good advice, now you just have to sort it all out and decide what will make you happy.

Last year our 2 week trip to Europe looked like this: Rothenburg (1), Reutte, Austria (1), Verenna, Lake Como (2), Venice (1), Cortona (7), Frankfurt (1). We rented a car and enjoyed a leisurely road trip from Germany to Tuscany, then flew back to Frankfurt the night before flying home. I was concerned about spending too much time in a car/on the road, someone on this site suggested mapping your trip on a calendar in excel and noting how much time 1) you spend moving from point A to B (door to door) 2) how many waking hours your have to sightsee, experience, eat, tour, relax, eat, etc 3) I assumed 10 hours a night in hotel 4) planned to not spend more than 4-5 hours per day in a car. In the process of planning, my husband said he didn't want to pack/unpack for two weeks solid, so we agreed that week one would be moving on every night or two, and week two would be home based in Tuscany at a farmhouse with a pool. So mix some longer stays with shorter stays. Plot your waking hours on a calendar, plan your travel times for early morning or late afternoon to extend your time in a location. For example we left Lake Como at 7am and arrived in Venice shortly after Noon. The next day we left Venice at around 2 and arrived at the Rental farmhouse by around 7. Yes, we only had 1 night in Venice, but we had 14 waking hours to explore Venice.
One other suggestion that I thought was worthwhile, is I scheduled a call with one of the Rick Steves' consultants. For $75.00 you can review your agenda, get some great tips and advice on how you might tweak things.

Okay, so I am in the middle of reworking my itinerary. I am still planning on doing a 5 week tour but cutting out all of Eastern Europe. I am sure that I want to visit Amsterdam, London, and Paris in the beginning but I don't know which path would make the most sense. Route 1 Fly into Amsterdam (4 nights) Take train to Bruge (stopping for a few hours in Brussels) (2 nights in Bruge) Yes, I will only be spending 1 full day in Bruge but I am okay with that Take train back to Brussels to take Eurostar to London (5 nights) Eurostar to Paris (4 nights) I am spending an extra night in Amsterdam on this route because I will be flying in on Queen's Night and will be partying the next day (Queen's Day) so that will take up a day of sightseeing) -or- Route 2 Fly into London (5 nights) Take Eurostar to Brussels (stay in Brussels for a few hours) then train to Amsterdam (3 nights) (no Queen's Day on this itinerary)
Take train to Paris (4 nights) (maybe stop by Bruges on the way but it's not high on the priority list. I added it to the first itinerary since it was close to Brussels where I will be catching the Eurostar) Any thoughts? After Paris I will be doing Spain and Italy but haven't worked out that itinerary yet. Thanks!

I personally think you are doing too much back tracking and forward tracking on this trip. Would start in the west, London, then Paris and then Amsterdam etc. That is only my opinion.

I should mention that I was planning on going to Madrid after Paris so if I were to go London, Paris then Amsterdam I would have to catch a plane to Madrid from Amsterdam versus doing an overnight train from Paris to Madrid.

I'm jealous that you have the time and resources to take on such a monumental trip. But how you come up with the energy for such an odyssey is beyond me. Have you ever considered making plans for the first destination city and then just wing it from there on? You never know what experiences you'll have and the people you're going to meet. I'm saying is just roll with the flow. I would just hate to be strangled by a set schedule, including flight reservations and room reservations weeks ahead. If you take a laptop/notebook, you can easily plan out the next leg on the fly. Don't think that you can see everything in every country. It's just not possible. And sometimes you need to drop traveling to a country that's out of the way--like Spain. It's just too easy to push yourself past the point of no return when taking on such an itinerary. And most important, have a great time!

Well, this will be the first trip of the kind that I will be embarking on so I certainly hope that I'll have the energy to make it all the way through! It helps that I work a week on, a week off job so I really only have to take off 2 weeks off from work to make this trip happen. Don't worry, I plan on allowing for some flexibility to my itinerary but I would prefer to have something specific mapped out to start out with. That way if I make any changes along the way I can see how it would affect the subsequent areas of travel. I think I might start out in Amsterdam then move to London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, then Italy (ending in Venice). I would definitely need to book rooms for Amsterdam since I will be there during Queen's Day. I realize that Spain is out of the way but I think it's doable with an overnight train from Paris. I'm not a must-go-to-the-museums kind of guy (although I do intend to go to one or two in each area). I'm more of a walk around the city, sight-seeing and eating food kind of guy so a few days in each spot would be good enough for me. We'll see. It may turn out that I may get too burned out with this itinerary at which point I can just adjust and spend more time in certain areas.

For your most-recent inquiry I would just decide based on who had the best flights to Madrid, London or Amsterdam. If they are similar, then choose to start London > Paris > Amsterdam, because the airport there is so convenient to the city. As for the long train ride to Madrid, skip it and be glad.