Europe - 21 Days and many nations, how much $$ will be spent?

WOW! You are really going to be jumping. Most people on these boards will recommend cutting WAY back on the number of cities. Even with night trains you will be spending most of your time in trasit and getting to/from hotels then unpacking/packing. What are you interests? Maybe London, Paris, Amsterdamn? Or Rome, Vinice and Milan? Read over some previous posts and reconsider.

Adding further to what the previous poster wrote. Many travelers report difficutly obtaining a refreshing night of sleep on a train. Using them too often may actually have the opposite effect on what you intend. Rather than freeing up more sight-seeing time, you may find yourself using valuable sight-seeing time to refresh yourself.

I personally wouldn't attempt more than 4-5 destinations in 21 days.

Hey Kent, time to give your spiel...

As for price, I stay in hostels and travel for 60-70 days. I typically spend $6k-$8k including flight, from Vancouver. Price seems to be about $1000 per week so your cost seems about right, if you stay in hostels.

If I were you, I would consider seeing fewer places and spending more time in each place. You'll be exhausted when you return, and then need a vacation to recover. A couple of night trains are fine, but you'll need to stay refreshed and full of energy to keep up your itinerary.

I'm sorry, but no way.

I'm an experienced traveler, and go where I can get the best deals because I speak the language. I rarely stay in a mayor city, and then in small, family run places. And I travel far less in a day then you show. Nevertheless, I still spend over $100 a day at todays exchange rates. I don't think there is any way you can do it for $3250 for 20 days. I'm not sure it will take $8000, but no way what you are planning.

Your schedule tells me you don't have a clue what you are doing.

You probably need a Global pass. How much is that going to cost? Have you made any reservations for accommodations? Considering the cities in which you plan to stay, those might cost significantly more than what you are planning. What about night train reservations? A lot of night trains sell out well in advance. You probably need to reserve before you go.

Winging it could cost you a lot more if you have to take more expensive night train accommodations because the cheaper ones are sold out and just "blowing into a major city like London, Paris, or Rome and going to the TI office is not going to get you the least expensive accommodations. You need to make night train reservations and hotel reservations NOW. And then you will have a pretty good idea of what your $$ will be.

$185 per day, and that's American dollars? But if you eat in restaurants and sleep in hotels, and visit a lot of paid sights then it would be easy to reach $185 per day. But my spending is closer to $70-100 per day because I stay in hostels, eat cheaply standing up and I don't visit every paid sight in the city.

I will be away this summer for 70 days, I couldn't afford $200 Canadian dollars per day plus airfair.

If I want to travel cheaply, I have to let a few things go.

I am with Lee, no way. The last time we were over the exchange rates were just about what they are now. (1.4). We were pulling out 300 Euro every-other-day from the ATM at first. Which means $450 cash roughly was coming out of our checking account. I was concerned as we got going - but luckily this backed off a bit as we got off the beaten track to less of the bigger cities. Your itinerary however is full of the big cities.

It has been said again and again on numerous other itineraries - but I would cut it back. You will
save money and you will enjoy your trip more by not having to spend time catching trains/planes (or what has happened to me) spending hours trying to find the car rental office or drop off the car in the right place.

I think I travel pretty run of the mill - and for our next trip I am planning 300E ($450) every other day as generous and allowing cushion. That is food, beverages, museums, sites and the random purchases. Can you do it cheaper - absolutely. Can you splurge more - for sure. But that is my two cents.

Chris: $185/person/day is in US dollars. Rick goes into details in his book, the $185 applies to a couple that is sleeping in hotels, not hostels, and eating dinner in a sit down restaurant. The $185 is not intended to apply to the situation you describe for yourself, I was addressing the question of the original poster.

Rick also has an alternative budget for "student or rock-bottom budget travelers" can do it for $100/person/day, but that means (in his opinion) sleeping in hostels or similar accommodations.

I too am headed to Europe for 21 days. Eastern Europe though, where staying in hostels and splurging on 2 nights hotel accommodations I have alotted $2500 to use and I am a frugal minded traveller who is flying solo on this trip.

I deduce your rail and the fact that you are staying in hotels, will cost about the amount you figure or more, but you'll get the Chevy Chase style "Grand Canyon" Vacation movie experience. Merely checking cities off a list will leave you by your itinerary tired, but wondering what did I really get a chance to see.

SLOW DOWN. As Ferris Bueller once said "Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop and look around once in a while you could miss it." At your breakneck speed you guys will miss a lot. Hope you reconsider your route!!

Cheers

Just going to throw my opinion into the mix, which will look remarkably like the other ones.

Your proposed itinerary makes me tired just thinking about how much traveling there is going to be.

Personally, I think you would have a much better trip doing Dublin, London, Paris, Amsterdam and either Germany or Italy.

Also consider that unless you get a private sleeping compartment, expect not to have much sleep during a night train. In my opinion, they are not worth the sleepiness and nap you will need the next day with a shared compartment.

Also, pretty much any 20 day trip is going to cost you around $8000 for two. You might as well enjoy your time there instead of seeing the insides of trains.

You are really spread out all over the continent aren't you? Drop some cities like Copenhagen, Warsaw, Dublin, Milan and Venice and spend more time in Berlin, London and Paris. For large cities like these, anything less than 3 days is almost sad.

Night trains are not comfy, nor are they your cheapest option. Perhaps sit down with a map in front of you and plan your trip out a bit better. Look at travel times between these cities and what it costs if you buy special tickets or a pass.

Many cities are cheapest if you rent an apt. instead of staying in hotels or in hostels.

For apartment rentals, many owners/agents require a minimum stay (sometimes as much as a week). At your break neck speed, I don't know that it would be worth the hassle of trying to rent an apartment. Not to mention you likely must put down some sort of security and/or cleaning deposit (which you probably don't want to get into with your current budget).

A hostel is probably your cheapest bet unless the 3 of you are willing to share a budget hotel room (though it's hard to find a triple that has 3 single beds in a hotel).

Without knowing your particular travel style, I agree that $100/day per person should cover you for hostel lodging, food (nothing fancy for lunch and dinner and assuming you can get a hostel that includes free breakfast), public transit in your destination city, some sightseeing admissions and maybe even stretch it to cover 1 or 2 drinks to enjoy a little nightlife. That estimate doesn't include your roundtrip plane ticket to Europe from Colorado, nor does it include your long haul transit costs on night trains.

Your budget depends on how much you really need when you are on the road. Many of these cities on your list are quite expensive. If you can't live without drinking at least 3 coffee house lattes every day or you love nightlife and want to check out the hottest clubs that have hefty cover charges, you'll blow your budget quickly.

It is difficult to keep up the kind of pace you propose (especially for 21 days) and not wear yourself out and have everything become a blur. Factor in all the time it takes you not only on a train to get from point A to B, but also the amount of time it takes to keep packing and unpacking, checking in and out of hostels, getting to and from train stations.

be sure and research the extra fees the discount airlines try to hit you with. Check a bag; that's a charge. Carry-on bag over their small weight limit; another charge. Don't print a boarding pass in advance; another charge. And so on. You can fly for those small advertised rates, but you'll need to spend some time looking into the gotcha's that can boost the price considerably.

Well, 100 dollars a day is fairly easy for a frugal traveller who will be staying mostly in hostels, and eating alot of picnics,, but hello,, have you figured in all those train costs... that is where your budget will be shot to h*ll.

Bluntly put,, your itinernary is insane... LOL Why even bother with some of those places,, you will arrive and leave the next day,, you will be tired and sleeping on trains is fun,, maybe ONCE.. .LOL

Rethink and EDIT,, I get you want to see alot of places, and I get you may have alot of energy,, but as noted, some of your places are just too spread out,,travel takes time and extra cash..

In some places you will have no problem finding a place to stay,, in others, you will find the popular/clean/ cheap hostels booked up.. August is as high season as you can go really ,, students are still traisping all around , if you are not a student and you push your trip ahead till mid late September you may have better luck with finding hostels with rooms. As a triple you will find it harder to find cheap hotels.. many places only have one or two such rooms, or none at all. Hostels with dorms are best bets.

Have fun, but sit down and force everyone in group to write down their 5-6 MUST GO places ,,in order of preference,, and see if you can make trip more managable.

David, you may be thinking that you can find a budget hotel like Red Roof Inn, with two double beds for the three of you to share. Not gonna happen. If you get a "double" room, that's one smallish double bed, not two. And a "twin" room will be just 2 twin beds.

I know you want to do Europe, but would you try to do the entire US in 21 days, spending 2 days in NYC, then taking a long train to Chicago, then another to St. Louis, and so on every two days? Wouldn't you have more fun if you spent 4 days in 5 different cities? You'll get off a train, say, yep, that's Copenhagen, and get back on a train!

Thanks for the replies. I see your points. I think we are going to leave off Amsterdamn, Copenhagen, Milan and Venice. We might skip Paris alltogether.

We looked at the train passes and realized how expensive those were as well, and are now looking to do some cheap flights between them, and hit each city for longer.

London (3), Dublin (3), Berlin (3), Munich (2), Rome (5) - with day trips from there.

We have friends in Poland that we are trying to meet up with too, so coordinating that is difficult, because they are on a trip the same time but coming back through Italy so we are trying to meet with them there.

So far though, I have found some cheap flights from London-Dublin, Dublin-Berlin, Berlin-Munich, and then I think train from Munich-Rome. Keeping that under $500 total for travel within Europe, half the price of the trains. Our RT price has dropped to $650ish, Denver-London, Rome-London-Denver.

Lodging we will start planning after we get the flights and such, but at ~$1200 for travel, that leaves alot of space open under budget.

In terms of travel...none of us have jobs when we get back so we will have time to recover, haha. We all are just done with school and looking for a career and figured why not take a cool trip like this before something like that starts. Only young once!

David,, if thats the case,, go longer.. you will never be at the point in your life where you can again take a 4 or 5 week vacation,, until you retire!! Your main airfare is going to be the same anways.

Seriously,,, I would push the time and stretch the dollar.. I did a great 3 months explore Europe trip when I was a "young un" and I have never regretted taking a longer trip. Some friends got new cars, or new stereos,, but I spent all my money on a long trip.
That was over 24 yrs ago.

Their "new" cars are in the dump,, the steroes were obsolete a few years after they got them,, none of them married the boy or girl friends of that time.. and none of them have same job. So all the things they thought they had ahead of me,, in the big scheme,, they had nothing,, I on the other hand treasure that time of my life. The memories of that long trip around Europe are priceless to me. My best friend that I took the trip with,, died 3 yrs later,,, I am so glad we did something so special together ..when we were young,, when we did have the time.. life marches on.

Even if you have to work a bit longer ( another month or so, and save every penny) so you can afford to stay an extra week or two..

Hey,, the Greek Islands are amazing fun,, we went there from mid September to first week in October and weather was great still.

You learn fast young one.

Sounds much more doable.

Cheers

I'm with Pat here. Stay longer!!!!!!!!!!

Earlier this year, I taught German to a young guy in preparation for his trip to Europe. He's in a position similar like yours, money saved up but no job to go back to. His trip was planned originally for 2 months - he's having so much fun he's adding another month. He's stretching his money by staying outside the big expensive cities, seeing a lot of Eastern Europe and doing some couch surfing alternating with hostels.

Wow, I wouldn't pull Amsterdam or Paris off the trip.

Maybe add a week, take the debt, and totally never regret it?

Great revisions David! I'd consider deleting Dublin and replacing it with either Paris or Amsterdam-- it would make your trip flow better and save you a flight.

Great revision David!! I second Sharon's suggestion to drop Dublin and replace with Paris. Better flow and Paris is amazing.

David,

Instead of skipping paris and Amsterdam, I would skip Warsaw.
There are many small airline companies in Europe you can fly. Prices are very low and it saves you a lot of time.
Take a look at: skyscanner.net
About budgeting: I would say it depends where you stay, eat and do. I don't believe there is objective way to give you a range of spending. However, the lowest you can do is to stay in a hostel, or maybe a cheap hotel for 3. A bed in a hostel is about 20-30 EUR. If you buy food from the supermarkets is way much cheaper than easting in a restaurant. Again it all depends how much you eat. When I travel I only eat one meal per day and snaking a bit during the day. Book a hostel that has breakfast included. In Rome it was very good. Different things to eat. I was eating more in the morning, so I was OK for many hours during the day.
What about renting a cra for 3 of you? Same expenses for 1 person or 3. I like travelling by car because I can see much more of the hidden gems.

I'd just like the second the idea of staying longer - do it while you can! (and do include Paris!) But also remember that you WILL return. You don't have to see everything now.

Oooh, don't skip Paris! After all, it's Paris!

Actually, if you rent an apt. in places like Berlin where it will be cheaper than even staying in a hostel, you will save money. An apt. in Rome too is cheaper than a hotel. Not sure about Paris, but there are a lot of options out there. Basing yourself in a large city and doing day trips is a good way to sightsee. You can take local transportation then. Think staying in Berlin and visiting Dresden or Potsdam. Munich? Visit Salzburg and Garmisch too. Germany is really one of your best deals. Using Länder tickets, you can travel on the trains really cheaply, while visiting smaller towns at the same time. Restaurants and food here are reasonable too.

Research the prices you can, like transportation. Sounds like you know your airfare. Consider getting a rail pass - not only do they often save you money but it helps you budget because you know how much money you need and can take care of it ahead of time. Find out which one suits you and figure that into the budget. Rick suggests $120 per person each day for room/board (with food) and $35 a day per person for sightseeing. If you sleep on some trains you won't need as much those nights. Multiply these figures by your number of days. Then think about what you are willing to spend on shopping which could be as low or as high as suits you. Then I'd tack on a little extra for unexpected things - the amount you need to be comfortable. You should get a good idea how much your trip will cost. I did this for our next trip so I'd know how much I need to set aside and save every month.

I have to say that I'm surprised by the outpouring of negativity and horrified replies urging you to trim down your itinerary. It's true that what you propose in your first posting will be a bit frenetic, but not everyone likes to travel the same way, and for some people (me included), whirlwinds can be fun and adventurous - especially if you just want to get a taste. No, you won't have time to explore each city to its fullest and you might feel a little dazed, but you'll also feel exhilarating.

My story is a case in point. In 2007 we went to Dublin, Dingle, Kinsale, Edinburgh, the Highlands, York, Bath, London, Amsterdam, Haarlem, Edam, Brussels, Paris, Versailles, Venice, Ljubljana, Bled, Postojna and Vienna. Insane, right? Well, it was - but we always wanted to spend a month backpacking across Europe and so that's what we did. We had one month to kill before living in Poland, and we made the most of it.

For three of us riding trains and taking a few Ryanair flights, staying in everything from B&Bs to hostels to nice hotels, we spent $12000 for 28 days. That's about $4000 per person for more time than you are planning on travelling. The exchange rate was approximately the same at the time - unfavorable.

A couple words of advice on your itinerary. You could fly into Dublin and make your way down to Paris, then take the train over to Germany, Warsaw and Copenhagen, and then fly to one of the Italian cities before finishing up via train....

It's one thing if you decide that you really don't want to rush, but if you truly want to see as many cities as possible, don't feel like it's not a worthy trip. It really all depends on your own travelling style and how much endurance you have. I could travel like this; some of my friends and family would keel over and die!

melissa,

the suggestion to trim down the itinerary was made not only because it could become potentially stressful but also because whirlwind tours tend to be more expensive - and the OP is concerned about the budget. Less whirlwind means less cost for transportation. And as Jo mentioned, staying longer in one place allows you to rent appartments which can cut down on cost quite a bit as well.