Europe - 21 days

We were told by who ? You are grown ups you can do what you want for goodness sake . Many advise to not go to too many places ., but with 21 days ( but is it really 21 days , think about that , remember you arrive in Europe a day after you leave States ) you could easily see 3-5 places if you travel light and don't mind just a taste of a place .

Hi, ya we are trying to decide which countries to go to. Italy is a must but would we able to squeeze in Paris, Switzerland and Austria in 21 days? including fly in and out and travel in between countries.

From Paris to Rome in 3 weeks by train...

Paris (4N)
Swiss Alps (3N)
Lucerne (2N)
Salzburg (2N)
Vienna (2N)
Night train (1N)
https://www.oebb.at/en/angebote-ermaessigungen/nightjet
Venice (2N)
Florence (2N)
Rome (3N)

U are a gem!!! TQ so much!!!!

For all things train travel in Europe, head to the man in seat 61.
http://seat61.com

Thanks David. The cities and no. of nights really helps a lot as a guide. Appreciate it loads.

You will have 7 train journeys to book, and I would book 'point to point' tickets as soon as they become available online, once you have finalised your plans.

Go to SBB Swiss Rail for ...
Paris to Swiss Alps
Swiss Alps to Lucerne
Lucerne to Salzburg
https://www.sbb.ch/en/travelcards-and-tickets/tickets-for-switzerland/individual-tickets.html

Go to OBB Austrian Rail for ...
Salzburg to Vienna
Night train from Vienna to Venice
http://www.oebb.at/en/

Go to Trenitalia for ...
Venice to Florence
Florence to Rome
http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en?

Another question David, if we decide to skip Austria, which country would be great for first timers to Europe? Thanks!

*will plan my itinerary based on your suggestion. all the infos helps me to start my itinerary. i was staring at a blank page for quite a while :D

Murren or Lauterbrunnen are great destinations to experience the Swiss Alps. Do some google searches.

Not everyone on here likes night trains but I think they are an essential European travel experience. I guess it depends how well you think you can sleep in a 'disturbed' environment. Of course it's best to get your own compartment.

yup will definitely google more with the info given! have a great day ahead, David!

You could start in Amsterdam ...
Amsterdam (3N)
Paris (4N)
Swiss Alps (3N)
Lucerne (2N)
Fly from Zurich to Venice
Venice (3N)
Florence (3N)
Rome (3N)

Or head to Munich ...
Paris (4N)
Swiss Alps (3N)
Lucerne (2N)
Munich (3N)
Fly from Munich to Venice
Venice (3N)
Florence (3N)
Rome (3N)

Out of curiosity, when will you be taking your trip?

I'd plan 21 days in winter very different than 21 days in summer.

You've been given some great advice and possible routes, but what type of thing do you want to see/do? Do you want Italy for food, beaches, hiking, museums, all of the above? In Switzerland, do you want the Alps, cities, villages, scenic drives? There's a lot to see in each of those countries and depending on what you want to do (and when you'll do it), you'll get different suggestions.

On past trips lasting about 2-3 weeks, we've changed city every 2-4 days. In my opinion, 2-3 days is not enough time to get settled. Obviously it depends on the size of the destination (a small town might not need as much time as a big city), but personally, I'd try for 3+ days in a bigger destination or one I was really excited about.

Remember that long train journeys or flights will take up most of a day and you might need a recovery day or two built in - you'd take a break at the weekend from work/school at home, you might want a day off from three weeks of sightseeing.

If you don't hit all your destinations, you can always go back. ;-) Europe's not going anywhere.

Your second honeymoons sounds like it will be wonderful! Congrats on 10 years!

Hi, we will be going next year 2018. Summer actually during kids' summer holidays. Thank you so much. With the info given. I am now finding out more info on each cities and countries. Also whether it is possible to fly instead of train for some cities. Very excited. At least I know where to start now.

Unless you want your trip to be a travel slog/marathon, I would suggest 6 places in 3 weeks, which would give you enough time in each place to get a feel for each city. Two nights in Venice is only one full day there, which is far too rushed, as an example - spend 4 nights here or skip it.

Fly open jaw and use seat61.com to plan rail trips. Paris needs 4 full days minimum.

I never sleep on night trains and need a day or two after to recover, but everybody has different views.

Some train times to ponder...
5hr 32min Paris to Swiss Alps (Lauterbrunnen)
2hr 22min Swiss Alps to Lucerne
6hr 28min Lucerne to Salzburg
2hr 15min Salzburg to Vienna
10hr 37min (overnight) Vienna to Venice
1hr 53min Venice to Florence
1hr 18min Florence to Rome

I like David's advice, too.

As for Venezia and other cities, one full day is better than no days. But you should hold a couple of "free" days just to chill for awhile.

I'd skip Lucerne and spend the time in Paris and Italy. Italy is rich. And Italy is slow. Plan for more time there than you plan for, if you know what I mean.

With children in the mix I would want more time in each place. Packing up to move on is bad enough if you're a solo traveler.

We have two small kids, 3 and 10. We like to have a rest day every sixth day. David's schedule is great.

Kids ? I missed that one

Hi, first of all, thanks for all the replies. Really appreciate them. We have a 8yo and a 4yo and we are not bringing them along haha. They will be spending time with their grandma. Its "OUR TIME" trip haha. Yes I love David's suggestions. We will most probably go along with them. As for the hours spend in the train. for those long journey trips, we might fly instead

Here is a romantic Itinerary for you....... Amsterdam, train to Paris, Fly to Venice, Train to Florence, Drive through Tuscany, Train to Rome. That is 6 hotels with half a day travel or less between destinations. Amsterdam 4, Paris 5, Venice 3, Florence 2, Tuscany 3, Rome 4. Less is more. Switzerland is hard to get to and will take up a lot of time in travel, it is also expensive. Go as early in the summer as you can and don't wait till August. I'd already have booked my airfare and hotels.

My kids summer holidays start 3rd week of July till mid of August. So we have no choice but to go during that time.

Thanks Richard. I like your suggestion too. Agree less is more. We also do not want to rush. My friend told me that no point going to Amsterdam when the tulips are not blooming haha. Sometimes too many advises can make you go crazy.

Switzerland better in winter?

Hubby loves architectures. He loves to see old buildings. Buildings or places with UNESCO heritage will be his favourite. Villages, scenic routes are a yes while beaches, we don't mind skipping it.

I think my itinerary has at least 8 UNESCO sites, just sayin. Amsterdam is an easy way to start your trip no matter the time of year.

Just had V-day lunch with my hubby. Happy Valentine's Day all! We decided on Amsterdam, Paris, Germany and Italy. Had to kiss Switzerland and Austria goodbye this round

Richard, can share the UNESCO sites that you will be visiting? Thanks in advance

Remember to make a time comparison for flying vs train.
- Transit to/from the airport can be an hour at each end.
- You will need to be at the airport 1.5 hours prior to departure.
- Flying time for an average European flight might also be 1.5 hours.
- It can also take an hour at your destination to get off the plane, collect your luggage and proceed through the airport.
So, city centre to city centre, flying can take as long as 6 hours. On the other hand, most train stations are centrally located, and minimal time is required for security/checkin.

Amsterdam is great, even when the tulips aren't blooming. If you're interested in flowers or just want a colorful outing, you can walk through the flower market.

Do you have specific cities lined up for Germany and Italy?

If you'll be taking a train from Germany to Italy, you'll likely pass through Switzerland or Austria, so at least you'll get to see the scenery. :-)

When choosing plane vs train, I usually opt for plane between UK/Ireland, Scandinavia and mainland Europe, but plane once I'm on the continent. With planes, there's no need to arrive early, go through security, get to the gate with plenty of time to spare and then wait. With trains, you just rock up to the station, stamp your ticket and hop on. Easy peasy. Views from the sky and the ground are both good in different ways, but trains have better people-watching in my opinion.

Have a great trip and happy Valentine's Day!

UNESCO Map Amsterdam has two, Florence, Venice, Rome, The Vatican, The Val D'orcia and Siena or Pienza.

Hello babysiew. I think your most recent Europe travel plan looks good. If you will travel from Europe to the United States of America, I suggest going to Amsterdam last. I think flying from Amsterdam to an airport in the U.S.A. would use less travel time than flying from Rome. Your travel direction could be :
Italy (fly to Rome)
Germany (fly)
Paris (trains)
Amsterdam (train).
You said this trip will be your "second Honeymoon" . In ITALY, perhaps you and your husband would like to be at Sorrento, 2 nights. At a good hotel at the top of a cliff, with a view of the Mediterranean Sea.

Just for reference we did a three week trip with our two kids several years ago. We flew in and out of Dusseldorf. We rented a motorhome and drove from Dusseldorf to Paestum, Italy and back stopping at:
1. Mosel/Rhine castles
2.Innsbruck and Gimmelwald
3. Cinque Terre, Italy
4. Sienna, Volterra, & other hill towns
5. Rome
6. Naples, Vesuvius, Pompeii, and Herculaneum
7. Sorrento and the Almafi coast
8 Paestum
9. Venice
10. Salzburg
10. Back to Dusseldorf

I can't remember exactly how many days we took, but I know it was between 21 and 24 days. We had a blast and did not feel rushed. Our favorites were 1. Italian Hill towns, 2. Venice, 3.Pompeii and Herculaneum 4. Paestum, 5. Rome
Our least favorite was Switzerland (though we still had fun).

Thanks all! You helped a lot with the comments. Sorrento seems nice! Will consider that. Love love all the suggestions!

Hi Ron, we will be travelling from Asia. Thanks!

We are also thinking of travelling to Antwerp for its diamonds. To commemorate our 10th wedding anniversary. We also read that Amsterdam is also one of the best places to buy diamond. Any thoughts on this? Amsterdam - Antwerp - Paris

Dropping Switzerland, adding Antwerp and Sorrento.

Amsterdam (3N)
Antwerp (2N)
Paris (4N)
Fly from Paris to Venice
Venice (3N)
Florence (3N)
Sorrento (3N)
Rome (3N)

U are really a gem, David!

Thanks (blush).
R u in Singapore?

Thalys is the train for Amsterdam > Antwerp > Paris.

No, the neighbour hahaha. Malaysia.

Do you think it is worth buying the railpass or buy as we go? Thanks!

Most people here would agree it's really not even worth making a cost comparison between a rail pass and point to point tickets. Remember a rail pass requires individual seat reservations, at additional cost, for premium high speed routes such as those you will be using. It appears your itinerary will be set well in advance, allowing you to make your reservations as soon as tickets go on sale, snatching the best fares.

I have a very good friend who is currently stationed at our High Commission in KL. She loves it there, and I'm keen to get over soon to experience the wonderful food.

Malaysia is famous for its food! Please do visit Malaysia. Bring you for a meal when you are here as a token of appreciation. Keep in touch. My email: babysiew@yahoo.com