Eurail: I am so confused

Your travel agent was not correct that all trains need reservations (if that's what she said). Even if well meaning, it sounds like she overstated the issue. Did she know your trip plan? The actual route of your trip makes a difference!

Seat reservations do cost extra with rail passes (with rare exceptions, such as Britain and Poland). They are required for faster trains in several countries (most notably France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, and international trains touching those countries), and also totally optional or unnecessary or even not offered in several other countries or for slower trains. See http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/reservations.

How to Look Up Train Schedules and Routes Online gives you the DB train schedule link and tips for using it. The is the most complete and objective source to tell you whether any particular train departure is "subject to compulsory reservation."

If you decide against rail passes, then you can buy train tickets the same as any resident would do, either online (some with advance purchase discount) or at train stations as you go. Depending on the type of train, some tickets will include seat reservations at the time of purchase, some will offer reservations for a fee, and some again will not offer them.

Thanks Laura, but I guess I am still not understanding. Throw out night trains and high speed trains, and say I want to go from Amsterdam to Nice. Would that cost me more money on top of the Eurail pass.

I guess what I am trying to understand is what is the point of buying the pass if you still have to pay extra for a seat on the train. Am I missing this completely r over thinking this?

If you want to go from Amsterdam to Nice in one day, then you cannot throw out high-speed trains; they are the only trains serving that route. The full price for 2nd class tickets is over $300. If you buy reserved tickets one to three months ahead, you might get them for half that price. It would be cheaper to fly, again if you book tickets ahead; see www.skyscanner.com.

For one travel day on a 2nd-class rail pass, you might have paid $50. But these fast train require everyone to have a seat assignment (not stand in the aisles) and do charge for pass holders to get that seat assignment. In the case of Thalys trains running Amsterdam-Paris, that price is pretty high; about $45 in 2nd-class or more in 1st. From Paris to Nice by TGV train, it's a more normal $11-20. The number of places for pass holders are limited, since both of these trains want to save space for people buying more expensive tickets.

In contrast, if you want to use a rail pass on a train from Paris to Bayeux, in Normandy, that route is not served by fast train and does not require a seat assignment, so you can just jump on with your rail pass and take any available seat. The full fare value of that particular ticket is about $45 or 50 one way. You might not have time to return to Paris on the same day, but if that's the plan, then the rail pass covers you all day until midnight.

I don't want to add to the confusion, but I recommend that you take a few deep breaths and read the Rick Steves info already linked.

Then Google the Man in Seat 61 for more information. You may find that it is actually cheaper and/or easier to get point-to-point tickets than Eurail passes, or to fly as has already been mentioned. It will require some planning and online research, though.

And yes, we made the mistake of getting global passes on our trip in 2009. In my ignorance, I thought they would be the best option for us, but I soon learned that things had changed dramatically since my first trip to Europe in 1977. We did have to pay extra € for reservations on many trains. We haven't done Eurail passes since that trip and we have spent many € less for internal Europe transportation (train, bus, plane, ferry) on every trip since.

In general a Eurail Pass will only be better value than 'point to point' tickets if you plan on using regional trains, and travelling nearly every day. If you book your high speed ticket as soon as they come on line (90 days prior) then you will probably save substantially over a pass. Enter dummy dates for your journey and make a comparison.

Hi,

If you are going somewhere far, say Paris-Amsterdam, Paris-Frankfurt, Paris-Nice, the only way to go is by high speed trains. I use a Pass mainly in Germany and Austria. Rules governing Passes are different from country to country , more or less. If you are under 26, you're eligible for the Youth Pass. If you go to a ticket counter to buy a reservation (4,5 Euro in Germany), you have to show the clerk your Pass or a ticket. You don't just buy a reservation by itself. There are no night train Passes. You can use the Pass to ride a night train but it's mandatory to reserve, either a compartment seat (the cheapest sitting there with 5 others), a couchette, or a sleeper (the most expensive). This expense is in addition to the Pass, ie extra.

The high speed trains in France (TGV) require reservations, they're mandatory. High speed trains in Germany do not have mandatory reservations. First, decide whether a Pass fits your style of traveling, your itinerary, the geographic extent, whether you'll take night trains or not, (I do use the night train option), which countries are in your itinerary?

jm,

It's difficult to know whether a Railpass would be the best option for your trip, P-P tickets or a combination of the two. It would help to have some idea which rail journeys you'll be making?

So all of this has put me at ease and I am glad we are starting this research a year in advance. As stated we will be atteniding 4 games at the European soccer Champioship so we will need reginal travel in France, which would be most of out trip. We will alos be traveling to Amsterdam, Coppenhagen, as well as several Eastern eurpoean cities (Warsaw,Krakow,Budapest, Prauge, Split (maybe)) and some in Germany, Cologne, Munich, Berlin. This is just a rough idea, we might do Austria and Sitzerland as well. After this I will be meeting my wife in Dublin for time in Ireland and Scotland. I know Scotland is a seperate pass on its own so I just want to hammer down Eurail stuff first before I look into that. with all that I will be there for 45 days toatal maybe 50. From what I am gathering is you do have to payextra ontop of the pass for some trains and some you do not. Am I understanding this a little better. We will be backoakcing so we are going on a budget and want to be sure we are not spending unneeded money.

I don't know if I can make this any clearer for you or not. In the old days of Europe on $5/$10/$50 a day (depending on the year) the rail pass was a no-brainer good deal. But now at $500 a day with computers and internet it is a very different travel situation. At the one time most of the trains were the same. Just a matter of how many stops made along the way. Easy to do, get on, get off, and the train pass was the way to go. That myth stills exists today.

With the advent of high speed trains, computers, on-line purchases, etc., most of the rail systems have gone to tiered pricing structure where early purchases on-line are offered at discount, sometimes deep discounts but, like our airlines, those tickets come with restrictions and limitations such as no change, no refund. The discounts on advance sales really undermine the value of a rail pass IF you are willing to commit to a fixed schedule. The rail pass still provides a lot of flexibility but you now pay for that flexibility. And now with the convenience of high speed trains, you pay a premium for using the fast trains.

Each rail system (country) determines how they will treat rail passes. I think it is safe to say that all systems charge an extra fee for a seat reservation - can be expensive. France is notorious for the limiting the passes accepted per train and for charging high seat reservations fees that sometimes are more expensive than a discounted ticket. Germany has a mix of reserved seats so a pass work much easier in Germany. Italy requires a seat reservation for all trains except the Regionale or slowest train. The surcharge in Italy is very reasonable from 8 to 10 euro per leg depending on the train.

Since the train pass is not automatically a good deal, you need to do the homework. Determine you schedule, price it out on each train site, throw in 10 to 15 for a reservation for each leg, and will show if you save money with a pass. A quick way to look at a rail pass value is to divided the days of train travel into the price of the pass. For example - if the pass is $1000 and you are doing 10 days of travel that is $100/day. Then price each day with point to point tickets. That is the only way you know for sure. Conventional wisdom these days is that it is difficult to make a rail pass cost effective if you are willing to take advantage of the discount pricing for on-line purchases. You have to do the homework. The travel agent probably was correct. Just a miss understanding of terms. But if you want a guaranteed seat then you will always have to pay an extra fee for that seat reservation.

Keep in mind that the advantage with discounted tickets is savings but then you've sacrificed flexibility, which depends on your travel style. Given what you have laid out so far (your itinerary is still very much in flux), I don't think you need a Pass esp if you're not eligible for the Youth Pass. If you get point to point discounted tickets for Germany that require transferring trains, I would check at the Reisezentrum, what happens if your specified train is cancelled (Zug fällt aus), or you miss your transfer train. When you look at the blue electronic board, delays are shown very frequently. Listen to the loudspeaker announcements for track changes other than indicated on your print out discount ticket, and what if you miss that train. It may not happen to you but it happens.

If the train in Germany is a "replacement/substitute" train (Ersatzverkehr), seat reservations for those aren't sold. Everyone just boards.

Not sure what Fred's point is about missing a train. Regardless of the ticket class if you miss a train because the train was delayed you get a replacement ticket for the next train. Go to the ticket window, show you old ticket, they check the data base to see that the train was late, and give you a new ticket. The hassle is that the line could be long for the ticket window if a lot of people missed the train. Now if you miss because it is your fault then that is a different situation. Depending on ticket's restrictions, that could be dead ticket.

Lo, above, recommended The Man In Seat 61 website, which is a wonderful source of information. Here's the direct link to his discussion of railpasses and whether or not they are a good purchase in particular situations: http://tinyurl.com/bkw4u6c