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Etiquette (for lack of a better word) Advice.

In "To The West" Stewart asks about an "odd occurrence in a French café". Several people had good answers for him and gave additional examples. The thread then turned to tipping, how to ask for the check, etc. I know Rick's books, as well as most other travel guides, briefly cover such things as tipping, as well as how to dress in churches, temples, and mosques, but I've never seen situations like Stewart described mentioned, never mind the whole round table vs. square table thing (you have to read Stewart's thread). So that brings me to an idea I have for another guide Rick could add to his oeuvre: Etiquette. And no, I don't mean how to hold your pinky while drinking tea; I mean an overview of how to be savvy, culturally sensitive, and at the same time get what you need. Stewart's experience is an excellent example - knowing when it's too late to order only a sandwich, or at least to ask if it's okay. There's no way to make travel incident-free, nor would I want it to be, some of my best memories come from embarrassing but otherwise funny moments. But if I had been Stewart, I probably wouldn't have taken the situation as well as he did; I probably would have dissolved in a little puddle of embarrassment. So, all you savvy travelers, what etiquette advice (again, not the hoity-toity, pinky in the air variety) would you give less experienced travelers? Or for the rest of us, what would you like to see covered in guide books?

Posted by
1825 posts

I would like to see a guide book of obscene gestures, curse words and insults.

Posted by
1525 posts

While I suspect you are looking for specific examples, what occurs to me is that the best etiquette is to act as you would as a guest in any stranger's home; Be kind, reasonably quiet, deferential, modest, curious and thankful. Appreciate what they have to offer and don't outwardly complain about what they do not. Consider how their lives differ from your own and allow a moment to consider if there might be something to learn from the differences. It is likely that any minor etiquette infraction you might make while doing your best to follow the simple approach above will be graciously forgiven.

Posted by
23282 posts

There are guide for what Richard wants. I have seen them. Often used by corporate training programs for employees going abroad. They can be very useful. And, of course, a good learning technique is to be very observant of other, hopefully, locals.

Posted by
8946 posts

In Germany, never wish someone a happy birthday before the actual day is there. It is considered very bad luck. Giving baby presents before the baby is born, is also considered bad luck. When giving flowers, it should always be an odd amount. Shake hands when introduced to new people. When tipping, do not leave the tip on the table. When the server for example, tells you your bill is 27 euro, you just give them a 50 or two 20's and say "30 euro" and they then give you change back for that amount.

Posted by
2829 posts

If you get to chat with a Dutch pregnant woman or the couple, or anyone with a pregnant person in the family, don't ask for the gender of the unborn children. They usually take long steps like doctors not telling the gender on exams and so, because they don't want to spoil the surprise.

Posted by
517 posts

Don't forget kissing! Dutch kiss three times on greeting! Austrians only kiss twice. Handshakes suffice between men. Also in Austria: Same tipping advice as Jo gave. Make eye contact when ching-chinging glasses. Just because every table in a restaurant has a "reserved" sign on it does not mean that every table is reserved. Ask and one will likely become free. You have to ask for water and, unless you specify tap water, you will likely get bottled water. In some parts of Europe you will get a funny look if you ask for tap water. Eating while strolling is generally not done. Jay walking is frowned upon. At public pools, changing rooms are likely to be co-ed. Really.
You have to buy shopping bags at grocery stores. Be prepared to bag your own stuff and to do it at lightning speed. Great topic and nicely worded. Thanks! Loved the bit about square and round tables in the other thread.

Posted by
375 posts

Nonverbal communication in general can be a minefield. Some gestures that we may think of as being positive, such as a "thumbs up" or the "A-ok sign" may be seen as extremely insulting in some cultures. Likewise the difference in eye contact and how close one stands to another.

Posted by
356 posts

My advice would be to just watch the locals. Watch the way they interact with waiters and receptionists. If everyone is patiently queuing do the same. If everyone if pushing do the same! The Culture Shock! series of books and the Xenophobe's Guide to... series are both quite interesting guides to etiquette and what makes each country tick. I don't think you can help but make mistakes sometimes. I tend to go bright red and clutch my hands to my face so I think it's obvious to the person that it was a genuine mistake!

Posted by
355 posts

Some language books will include such tips. Often in the form of side notes to break up the boredom of discussing the fine points of grammar.

Posted by
2876 posts

I've tried to memorize do's and dont's for different countries, but I've found I usually forget them all as soon as my plane lands. So - I know they're nothing original - but I have a few travel thoughts that I try to keep in mind for myself: This is their home, not yours. You're a guest. It's another country, of course things are going to be different - that's half the fun. At least learn how to say 'good morning' and 'thank you' in their language. They know you're a foreigner, don't worry about it and don't try to pretend you're not. If you're always polite and friendly, nobody will care if you commit a faux pas. If you're having a good time and you're liking their country, tell them.

Posted by
818 posts

In Poland when you pay your bill don't say Thank You if you want change back. They will assume you mean "keep the change". I have no idea if this is true but someone told us that so we were very careful never to say Thank You too soon.

Posted by
619 posts

In Italy, don't handle fruit or vegetables with bare hands until you have bought them. There will usually be plastic gloves provided. NEVER, in any country, tell people how things are done in a much better way in your own country.

Posted by
8946 posts

What Thomas said about looking people in the eyes when toasting with your beer glass, etc. Very important here in Germany too.

Posted by
276 posts

Lots of excellent information and advice so far, thanks everyone! And thank you, Thomas, for the kind words:) People had such wonderful insight into the cafe incident that I figured there were other areas that could be explored. You're right, Bronwen, about thanking waiters in Poland as you pay. I had completely forgotten about that! It's not really a problem in restaurants that deal regularly with tourists; many waiters know that visitors are unaware of the implied "keep the change". But in more out of the way places, waiters will think that you are leaving whatever change is left as a tip if you thank them while handing them your money. Speaking of Poland, people there usually remove their shoes before, or immediately upon entering a house or apartment. You may not be expected to do so as a guest, but it's polite to offer. So make sure you are wearing matching socks:)

Posted by
12040 posts

"Kiss, Bow, or Shake Hands: Europe", by Terri Morrison and Wayne Conaway. This book is intended more for business travelers, but it explains a lot of social customs by country. One thing that I didn't realize that Dutch and German speakers find annoying until last year- the tendency of American English speakers to trail-off in mid-sentence. This is frustrating because in the Dutch and German languages, the main verb of the sentence is usually placed at the end.

Posted by
2349 posts

"the tendency of American English speakers to trail-off in mid-sentence." You mean, it's not just...

Posted by
41 posts

One common european dining procedure i found "disconcerting" at first until i thought about it: in public restaurants, especially when crowded, while sitting at a table by yourself, you may be asked if a seat is "free" ? Unlike USA, its not common to occupy a table when alone !

Posted by
1559 posts

In Poland, yellow flowers are for deaths, not friendship. I bought them for friends we were staying with but luckily they took it with good humour.

Posted by
11507 posts

The kissing thing is hard, my relatives and friends who live just outside Paris kiss three times, but my Parisian relatives and friends kiss twice,, apparently is very area specific. Follow others lead. A cafe table with a table cloth and silver ware is meant for those who wish to order food,, if you just want a drink take an unset table, or wait and ask if stopping just for a drink is ok.. they will generally remove cloth. ( _Paris)

Posted by
4684 posts

"Jaywalking is frowned upon" That's a very different cultural thing in different parts of Europe. In the "Germanic" countries, yes, pedestrian crossing etiquette is very strict and people will wait at red crossing lights even if it's obvious there isn't a car for miles. But in the UK people will happily cross at red lights if there are no cars coming, and the idea of "jaywalking" being a crime sounds like ridiculous over-regulation. And in parts of France crossing the road is a total free for all.

Posted by
8682 posts

40 plus years of travel provide insight. Best word of advice is display some manners. Be polite, act like a guest and respect your hosts. A smile goes a long way, a loud, demanding, whining voice does not. Accept that you are in a different part of the world, it won't be like home. Presuming it will be only brings disappointment. Things are different. Appreciate that reality. Exploration and discovery are the essence of travel.

Posted by
571 posts

There is also "Dos and Taboos Around the World" by Roger Axtell. I have a rather old edition, but I found it useful both when traveling and when I worked in a shop with a very international clientele.

Posted by
389 posts

That's interesting, I didn't know that removing shoes is the norm in Canada. My brother and sister-in-law make us take off our shoes in their home, which has made them seem a bit anal retentive to me. But if I had a house full of bright white carpet I might consider it. Gwen, that's a terrible Parisian waiter story. That reminds me of what Bill Bryson said about being intimidated by European waiters: "Now I think, 'if you're so great, why I am the one sitting down?'"

Posted by
307 posts

I found Penny's comment regarding removing shoes when entering a home in Poland interesting, since I'm aware that keeping shoes on is fairly common in the US( I have family in Mass. and removing shoes while at home is not routine for them). Here in Canada, at least where I live, it would be considered extremely rude to keep your shoes on in someone's home....

Posted by
11507 posts

yes,, its always polite to offer to remove shoes,, most us do here in Canada,, why would anyone want doggy do an stepped on spit trailed about their home,, I always take off my shoes, but allow my guests to leave their shoes on,, but I expect unless they are in ladies heels, ( for a nice dinner party) then most do offer to remove them. Even at my relatives in France I offer to remove my shoes, as it is natural to me,, seems to be a 50/50 split on whether they llike it one way or another. As for jaywalking, ha in Paris its survival of the fittest and quickest,, stragglers beware, cars do not think you have the right of way EVEN at a crosswalk with lights in your favor.

Posted by
222 posts

I've enjoyed this thread and find it very thoughtful. And I do agree with the idea that politeness and goodwill on the part of travelers go a long way toward defusing any inadvertent etiquette slips. Except for the time I was publicly humiliated by a cafe waiter in Paris. This was back before the days of the Euro. I had paid my bill and was expecting change back from the waiter (I didn't realize that the amount of three centimes was worth less than about one American cent; I just thought I should be getting some change back). It didn't arrive and didn't arrive and finally I asked the waiter where my change was. He stood beside me and proclaimed in a loud, sarcastic voice to the entire clientele of the cafe: "Mademoiselle wants her three centimes!" I have never gotten over this and to this day I am still intimidated by certain waiters in Paris!

Posted by
11507 posts

Gwen,, I realize at the time that would have been very embarrassing, but,, sorry, it is darn funny too..

Posted by
12172 posts

I think, "Act as you would if you were a guest in someone's home," is always good advice. Don'ts: -Be loud -Complain (about prices, no ice, no coffee refills, not accepting dollars, etc) -Expect everything to be exactly the way you are use to -Leave a mess for others to clean up -Waste expensive energy (hot water, heat, AC, electricity) -Overtip Do: -Learn and use polite phrases in the local language -Smile, be friendly and ready to engage in polite conversation (including political conversation, if you can do it without getting upset) -Dress Conservatively
-Be interested in local history and culture

Posted by
8682 posts

See, it's true. Learn something new everyday. Had NO clue about removing shoes in Canada. Good to know and thanks for sharing.

Posted by
32805 posts

Its interesting about the shoes in Canada. I wonder if its generational, or by location? I lived in Montréal in the 70's, (and my parents did in the 50's) and we never did. Snow boots, yes, in a big pile by the door, but not shoes. Not at our place, not when visiting others. But in those days we never traveled beyond the bounds of PQ - Quebec.

Posted by
818 posts

I (originally from Massachusetts) hate the whole "take your shoes off" thing. When you come visit - please keep your shoes on! Shoes make the outfit! And I don't need your kids slipping down my uncarpeted stairs because they are in stocking feet.

Posted by
8946 posts

It is pretty common in Germany to take off your shoes when you get home. The streets are filthy, and people don't want that on their floors. If you are visiting, you may be offered slippers if the floors are cold. Many people have extra slippers just for their guests. You can buy sets of these just for this purpose. I always ask when I go to a friends house for the first time if I should take off my shoes, and they will either say yes or no. It is easy. For parties, people usually leave their shoes on.

Posted by
307 posts

Hmmm, yeah, regarding shoe removal, I'm not sure if it's a regional thing, or an urban vs rural thing or what. I know when I and my friends, family, etc, etc visit someone's home, removing your shoes when you walk in the door is as natural and automatic for us as removing your coat or jacket. Unless specifically told to keep your shoes on ( occasionally happens), to be in someone's home with your shoes on would be awkward, and you can bet your hosts would either address it right away, or there would be comments made after you left. Perhaps it harkens back to the days before pavement and concrete, when you had to tramp through dirt and mud to get to your house.
It's funny, even when I visit my family in Mass., I always take my shoes off in their home, for no other reason than because of my cultural upbringing, I'm conscious of it and it just feels disrespectful to me to have my shoes on( even though I know it's probably not viewed as disrespectful at all)...isn't cultural diversity a wonderful, and sometimes funny, thing?

Posted by
3123 posts

Here in Western Canada we say: "Take your shoes off and come on in!" It rains a lot here, and lots of houses have fitted carpets, so it's considered polite to at least offer to remove your shoes!
I think it's all across Canada.

Posted by
5678 posts

I have to say that this whole shoes off thing is not something I've run into. I knew that it was a cultural tradition in Japan, but in Canada? I had absolutely no idea. I have lived in Chicago, Columbus, Ohio, Wisconsin--north and south-- San Francisco, Lafayette, Indiana, and now New York and we leave our shoes on in all those locations. Now, if we have mud all over our shoes, common courtesy says that we offer to take them off and hope that our host will help us clean our shoes. Pam

Posted by
11507 posts

host will help you clean shoes,, ha ha,, you guys are way nicer then we are,, I don't clean anyones shoes! why is keeping shoes on so important, other then a dressy dinner party where ladies are in fashion heels,, I don't get it.. sock or bare feet are more comfy don't you think.

Posted by
2349 posts

I've always been a barefooted heathen who'd kick off my shoes as soon as I walked in the door. I have learned that some hosts actually dislike this, so now I ask if they mind if I take off my shoes. Turns out some people just don't like feet. Whenever there's a discussion of plane etiquette, some always complain about others taking off their shoes. The thought of keeping my shoes on for 8-9 hours makes me claustrophobic! Now, with various foot issues like plantar facsiitis, I find I need to wear shoes all the time. I wear slip on ones, so at least I can vent the poor puppies.

Posted by
11507 posts

That plantar thing is painful Karen, I have a friend who has that,, and yes, in those cases of course a person needs to keep their shoes on,, do think its funny " some people just don't like feet" cause I am thinking they like filth in their homes better,,, lol .. mind you I knew a man once who always kept his shoes on,, with everyones blessing,, lets just say it was toxic if he removed them.. lol

Posted by
1825 posts

Areas with lots of weather like Canada and Northern climates seem more likely to have people remove shoes or boots when entering a home. In warmer areas where you might be wearing sandals it might seem odd to want people to walk barefoot in your home.

Posted by
990 posts

Sigh...I remember being able to go barefoot, pre plantar fasciitis. Now I have orthopedic inserts in my slippers in case I have to get up during the night! No more bare feet for me, sadly. I do think that etiquette lapses by foreigners are usually forgiven, just as we do for foreigners here at home. I was just giving advice to my boss, who is going to China shortly, and needs to learn about Chinese etiquette for things like being at a banquet, exchanging business cards, etc. After a lot of advice, I ended up summarizing by saying, "You won't get it all right, you can't get it all right, but as long as you show respect for your hosts, it'll all be fine." I think that is true in Europe too.