There have been some questions and discussions on this site about possible changes for Americans and other tourists who might be traveling to Europe in 2024.
There is a very informative article on Rick's August newsletter about ETIAS.
For those who might have missed it, I am posting a link to the article.
Answers a lot of questions and clears things up, at least for me.
https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/trip-planning/europe-visa-waiver
thanks for posting this. unfortunately there are a few errors in the piece.
If folks read the above, it defines which countries will require the ETIAS for entry and the countries who's citizens are eligible.
ETIAS is currently not in operation and no applications are collected at this point.
This statement is on every page of the ETIAS site.
Keep Calm and Carry On was one of three key messages created by Britain’s wartime propaganda department, the Ministry of Information
Still applicable today
The first paragraph and the first sentence ...
Starting sometime in 2024, Americans, Canadians, and residents of
dozens of other countries will be required to pre-register (using a
system called ETIAS) before they arrive in Europe.
... is not precise. This is an EU thing, not a Europe thing. Also incorrect in that it implies that ALL must apply for the ETIAS visa, when in fact there are a number of exemptions for individuals with other forms of visas and residency permits.
The second paragraph and the first sentence ....
ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorization System) is a visa
waiver program that requires international travelers from a designated
list of countries (including the US, Canada, the UK, Australia, and
New Zealand) to pre-register before arriving in Europe's Schengen zone
(for more on which countries are affected, see below).
... is not precise. This is an EU program and not a Schengen program, and yes, they are different. And again, not all travelers need apply ... granted most, but still ...........
Paragraph five sentence two ...
Here's some good news: Once your ETIAS application is approved, you
can use it to enter Europe as many times as you like over a period of
three years (or until your passport expires) — provided you don't
exceed the existing Schengen limit of 90 days out of any 180-day
period.
... is not precise. As you dont use it to enter Europe (its an EU thing, not a Europe thing) and the Schengen limit may or may not apply as not every country in the EU is part of Schengen.
Otherwise extremely ..... I would suggest you go to the horses mouth: https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias_en Well written and easy to follow. And I could be wrong, so use the official site.
If you read the official site you will see that it does not apply to the Republic of Ireland, even though Ireland is in the EU.
It has also been pointed out in another thread that Cameron is signposting travellers to a third party site, as well as the official site. Doing so seems to be unwise.
It's also not an "EU thing" thing as non-EU countries such as Iceland, Norway and Switzerland will be requiring the ETIAS. It is 30 European countries that will be requiring it.
Some are also non- Schengen.
ETIAS (European Travel Information and Authorization System) is a visa
waiver program
It is not a visa waiver program. It is a travel authorization program for passport holders from some visa waiver countries to the EU.
you can use it to enter Europe as many times as you like over a period of
three years (or until your passport expires).
Also not completely true. If you get a new passport for any reason--expiration, lost, stolen, etc--you have to reapply.
I wonder how long it will take them to fix this if at all? With this many mistakes I also wonder how many other errors are in his previous writings?
When implemented, this will be a train wreck.
Probably why it has taken so long and been delayed, is all the testing and tinkering to make sure that is not what happens.
Trying to avoid fulfilling this statement: "To err is human, but to really foul things up you need a computer."
I have already commented about this article in another thread that contained a link to it.
For me the most worrying thing is that the article is directing people to an unofficial 3rd party website for more information. I don’t understand why RS would refer its travelers to an unofficial and unauthorized source for more information about such a crucial matter.
The article as a whole seems to be hastily written and contains many errors and confusing/incorrect use of the terms “Europe”, “EU” and “Schengen”.
I don’t understand why RS would refer its travelers to an unofficial and unauthorized source for more information about such a crucial matter.
RS still suggests people buy their rail tickets from Rail Europe. (Probably goes back to the day when RS was the largest seller of Eurail passes in the US.)
When implemented, this will be a train wreck.
I don't know why -- citizens of countries that enjoy visa-free travel to the U.S. have had to do the equivalent U.S. requirement (ESTA) for 15 years now.
The Schengen countries are only instituting a reciprocal requirement, which seems reasonable.
If millions of European (and Japanese and whoever else) visitors have gotten ESTAs since 2008, there is no reason to think that millions of American won't be able to get ETIAS when this is implemented.
And yes, I agree with Joe and Nigel and James and Dutch_traveler that RS should REALLY be pointing people to the official EU website rather than a third-party "interpreter."
Rather than Americans trying to plead that they are an "edge case" or trying to use perceived loop holes, and then being surprised at airport check in, surely it is just easier to acquire an ETIAS. It will only cost a few $ and take a few minutes apparently to complete the form.
I don't know how many equivalent loopholes there are in the US ESTA system, but international travellers just comply and buy that ESTA- you don't hear stories of people trying to avoid obtaining it.
I don't know if the rules have recently changed, but I always thought ESTA only applied to those arriving by air.
Recently I did another check and see that it now applies to those arriving from Canada overland or by scheduled international ferry- where I understood a Visa was needed.
When implemented, this will be a train wreck.
I know we have this impression of the "Dumb American", in Europe, but I'm pretty sure the major of travellers will manage just fine.
[The only kind of response for such a comment]
I think it will go fine too; unless you answer yes to one or two questions then I bet you get sent out to redtape baba land and never come back. But dont know why this will be worse than any of the other E-Visa program sites.
So, if any of us had described the program as poorly as Steves did it would be okay, cause at least I never expect anyone of the forum to have any degree of accuracy. But there is a higher standard for the leading world expert, dare I say Grand Potentate - Royal Poobah of travel to maintain higher standards.
It's always awesome to stay informed about any travel changes. Thanks for sharing that link, dude!
Australia has been doing this for years. Its easy peasy …. it took me like 2 minutes. Not sure what all the hand wringing is about.
Australia has been doing this for years. Its easy peasy …. it took me like 2 minutes. Not sure what all the hand wringing is about.
Probably has something to do with the word 'visa' being (mis) used, and the often more complex time consuming process that is involved in obtaining a 'visa', is what people are stressing about.
Probably has something to do with the word 'visa' being (mis) used,
and the often more complex time consuming process that is involved in
obtaining a 'visa', is what people are stressing about.
Actually the ETIAS application asks more personal questions than in either the Turkish E-Visa or the Uzbekistan E-Visa online application. The ETIAS will be approved in "minutes" or up to 30 days. The Turkish and Uzbekistan E-Visas take less than an hour to be approved, or presumably if the few questions cause a flag ... who knows. Let's say it's equal time with all 3.
The biggest difference between these two E-Visas and the ETIAS is the E-Visas are required for people not otherwise required to have another form of visa and want to enter the country; while the ETIAS is for people not otherwise required to have a visa to enter the region. Which explains why one is a visa, the other not a visa.
The NY Tines has an article today about ETIAS. The information is pretty much spot on:
The E.U.’s New ETIAS Entry Requirement Is Coming. Someday. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/03/travel/etias-europe-visas.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Frank II, yes, that was good.
Good news. European (and near European) countries that still don’t require a Visa or a Visa-like but definately not a visa for US Citizens to enter: Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Montenegro, Serbia, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Ukraine, Moldova, Turkey, Georgia. Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Ireland, UK https://i.redd.it/b3va5zawin041.jpg
Personally, i think this wll go real smooth and people will forget about it in a while. But, like the Schengen limit, everone who asks a question on the forum will be reminded two or three times.
It is easy to overlook, especially since the EU will be rolling out their system just after the scheduled rollout may have already started in the UK, but I would not let it get away from ya that the UK is implementing its own ETA, with the their first phases being Middle Eastern countries. Then others to follow. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/electronic-travel-authorisation-eta
I am expecting it to be a train wreck for a couple reasons.
1) Ut has had multiple delays and it is an online IT project. And a multiple country government one at that. In general any ONE of these facts makes it likly to be problematic when it first goes live, Add all these factors together and it is not very likely that it will go smoothly at least to start.
2). Americans (at least some) have trouble under that they need a passport that does not expire to soon for a trip, and we are now adding something else they need to get and that has an expiration date… I am sure more then a few will have issues.
3) a lot of travelers are older and a lot of older folks have trouble using a smart phone much less going online to fill out government forms. (But the longer the program is delayed the more these computer illiterate folks will age and pas away, so that will be “self correcting”
4) This will require US airline employees and such to interpret if the passengers have the right paperwork and such before they allow passengers on the airplane or the airline can be held responsible for flying them home, I presume this new paperwork will be the same. And this will (as someone else noted above) be problematic, as it is more complicated then just checking the date on the passport. Also this extra check will probably have yo be done at the gate and tgus is likely to slow boarding.
Note I don’t have a problem with Europe setting this up. It is their country(countries) they can do what they want. But it is going yo complicate things. And it will slow down or otherwise make things more inconvenient and we will see those travelers that don’t do what they need to and thus have a problem and that will affect everyone around them….
Is it the end of the world?.. No. but it will make things more difficult to one degree or another.
I am old enough yo remember have to clear boarder control in Europe and while it was not the end of the world nor would it stop my traveling if I still had yo go through it.. but it was more complicated. This is similar, it is not going to stop folks traveling but it is just one more (relatively minor) thing that will complicate and slow things down to one degree or another, The question that remains to be see is how much.
But I highly doubt this is going to go into effect without more then a few Hiccups.
I realize it's been some time ago, but I was wondering if any of our not-in-the-USA contributors remember their first encounters with ESTA. Was it a mess? Pretty straight forward? Or somewhere in between?
For the person who asked, “I wonder how many other errors there are in his writings?”, I can only say I have found several. Guidebooks are written and updated by a team of authors. There is always the possibility of errors. Then, information that was originally correct may become an error when the situation on the ground changed and the guidebook does not.
Are his guidebooks 100% accurate? No. I doubt any guidebook is. I do like them for general ideas and points of interest. I always follow up on a specific location with a web search for current info.
I look for RS guidebooks in the library or at thrift stores. Since I need to double check for current info anyway, this works great for me.
“I realize it's been some time ago, but I was wondering if any of our not-in-the-USA contributors remember their first encounters with ESTA. Was it a mess? Pretty straight forward? Or somewhere in between?”
I have applied for an ESTA several times. The first time I applied it was still free of charge. I don’t recall any issues at all. You fill in some personal data, answer some questions and that’s it.
I must say I’m somewhat surprised by the strong reactions in the USA about the plans to introduce the ETIAS. You’ve been asking Europeans to do the exact same thing for almost 15 years now. And you charge us the nice fee of $21, whereas we only plan to ask you €7.
With regards to those who are afraid this will become a mess. Every single day thousands of Europeans of all ages successfully manage to apply for an ESTA. I’m sure that likewise, you’ll be able to handle this ETIAS thing whenever it comes into effect.
I can only confirm what Dutch_traveler is saying. I applied for ESTA twice and do no remember any problems.
Thank you, Dutch_Traveler and veerle3 for sharing your actual experiences. I, too, am struggling to understand the sturm und drang surrounding ETIAS, since, as you noted, ESTA has been happening for people coming to the USA for years.
To those that seam to think that Americans being against this are hypocrites because the US has something similar.
Please keep a few things in mind. The US is a republic NOT a Democracy. We may have voted in the government but we did mot get asked to vote on on the American visa system. And That for most of us we had no idea the US was going yo do this kind of thing until it had happened if we even knew it then. So the fact that the US has something like this and that US citizens don't like the idea of having yo do the same basic thing are NOT the same issue. The US government does a lot of things that I don't agree with and all i can do is try and vote. in someone else. So please don't hold us responsible for everything our government does and I wont hold you 100% responsible for everything your government does.
Because lets be honest.. it IS going yo be inconvenient (as i am sure our system is to you) it is a matter of HOW inconvenient it will be. It probably wont actually make anything safer (as ours probably doesn't) as true “bad people” will soon lern how to get around it, But either way I was not asked about my opinion on either system.
