ETBD Tours? Still a good deal?

Recognize that the weak dollar is a factor in the current prices of all European based tours. The other way to evaluate a tour cost is the per day cost. $3200/14 days is $228. Back out the price of hotel room, meals, transportation, admission fees, guides, and see what it adds up to. Just lodging, meals, and transportation can eat up a lot of that 228 each day.

Frank, what tours call 14 days starts at dinner time the first day and ends after breakfast the 14th day. That's 12 full days + 2 partial, 13 nights. I'd call that 13 days. $3200/13 days is $246/day. And that's how Rick figures it; most organized tours would include the day you leave the US and call it 15 days.

I've never taken any tour. I feel I can do better as an independent traveler.

I've taken four two-week trips in the last five years. All trips were alone, single occupancy. My total expenses for 53 nights, on the ground (overnight, transportation, meals, entrances, misc) was about $5000 (€3700 total, €500/wk). The Euro amount stays pretty constant, the dollar amount varies with the exchange rate.

To travel this inexpensively, I use only public transportation (trains, mostly regional [2nd cl.] and buses), stay mostly in rooms (Privatzimmer), which I book in advance using email to the individual hosts, eat the local food.

Most of what I go to see are natural sites, usually free, but I do spend a little, about €40/wk, on non-art museums, castle tours, and lifts.

In addition to what Frank said, your best bet is to price out what traveling independently would cost you.

On his tours, you're only paying for half a hotel room since you share with another. All tour groups can negotiate better hotel prices than you can get.

The coach is priced out per day regardless of how many people. So, you're sharing transportation costs with the others in your group.

The same thing with food. A group pays less per person than you would pay on our own. Group admission to sights is also less than individual admission (in most cases but not always.)

The only thing you're paying for on a tour that you might not see independently is the guide.

But then there are the more important things to think of that have nothing to do with money. How would you feel traveling by yourself. Would you be worried about being lonely or are you the type of person who can meet people anywhere? Do you like doing all the planning and reservations yourself or would you prefer someone else doing it for you.

When comparing other tours, look to see what is included and what is optional. On some budget tours, by the time you pay for all the optionals, it sometimes costs more than tours that include everything.

So, it's not just cost. You have to ask yourself, what kind of traveler are you.

One other option is a combination. Take a one week or ten day RS tour and do some traveling on our own.

Hi Steve,

First I'll say up front I've never taken a tour of any kind. I can tell you that our most recent trip to Bavaria, Austria and the Italian Dolomites for 9 nights was less than $3,200 for 2 people... incl. airfare, car, gas, tolls, lodging, dinners, etc.

We've taken 6 trips since 2001 to these places, ranging anywhere from 8 nights to 11 nights, all by car, and have never even came close to $4,000 for 2 people everything included.

Paul

Hi Steve,

I mostly travel independently but have also taken several Rick Steves tours. The first RS tour that I took was to Turkey in 1991. I had always wanted to go there but was a little hesitant to go on my own. The last one I took was to the Adriatic two years ago.

You can travel on your own for less, particularly if you are willing to stay at less expensive accommodations or if you are travelling with another person. When travelling as a single person and sharing a room on a RS tour, the gap narrows. That being said, I have always considered the RS tours to be a good value. I have never come home feeling that I was "ripped off" or that I wasted my money. I cannot see as much on my own as I see on a RS tour. That is primarily because I usually travel with public transportation. What RS covers in 2 days would typically take me 3 or more days with public transportation and some of the places would be extremely difficult without a car. I have used RS tours mainly for areas that would be more challenging for me to do exclusively on public transportation. I have found the guides to always be of good quality. I have always enjoyed the people on the tour and the good balance of organized versus free time. I've enjoyed the group dinners which usually include conversation with like-minded travellers and good local cuisine. There are also usually some activities that I would be unlikely to do on my own (e.g. truffle hunting in Italy).

The only other tour of Europe that I took was 25 years ago ... one of those cheap tours for college kids. I had a great time, but it really doesn't compare to an RS tour.

Depending on where you are going, you can piece together your own tour. I find big cities very easy to do on my own so I would not consider a RS city tour. In places like Normandy, you can take a day tour. So the answer will really depend on your personal preference and where you will travel.

Something else that is difficult to quantify is how much you would learn on your own, versus how much you will learn with a guide. Even if you did masses of research ahead of time, you wouldn't necessarily learn some of the things about a place that you would on a tour with a knowledgeable guide. I have never taken an RS tour, but I have taken a couple of others. Even though I'm not very inclined to do the group tour thing, the two I did go on were wonderful, and I came home with a lot more knowledge about the areas I visited than I could have on my own.

Steve, We've taken 2 RS tours and traveled independently 4 more times to Europe. We've also taken a Grand Circle tour (Aus/NZ/Fiji) and a group tour to Israel and Jordan. On GC we stayed in very nice hotels, but virtually every day trip was extra and at the end we were expected to tip well the guide. So in the end it seemed that the value of the two tour companies were comparable (to the extent you can compare Europe and Australia.) When traveling independently those things the others are mentioning are true--spending time taking care of logistics, etc., and missing the info provided by a guide that goes beyond what's in a book or brochure. Yes, it was less expensive traveling independently. And for me, finding your own way is part of the adventure that one misses when its all taken care of for you. Best of luck decision-making and happy travels.

Steve,

I have a few thoughts on the topic of taking a RS tour and travelling independently (using Rick's books) as that's been my preferred travel method for the last few years. I've just signed up for another RS tour and will be travelling on my own both before & after the tour.

I've wondered at times if ETBD tours were a bit expensive, but when considering all the facts I still believe they're good value. A few thoughts on why I like the tours:

I've found that I learn far more about the country, the people, the food and the culture on a tour both due to the lead Guide & the local Guides. That makes the trips MUCH more interesting and rewarding for me.

I really like having a least part of my trips arranged, knowing that the Hotels, transportation, local attractions and part of the meals will be covered. It's enough work for me to plan and book the rest of the trip, so the tour part is a treat.

While the prices might seem expensive, it's important to consider that ETBD has to pay tour expenses in Euros or Pounds (Hotels, Bus & Driver, Food, Museums & local Guides). I'm sure they're struggling with the exchange rates too!

A tour can negotiate much better rates for Hotels and meals than I could get. The ETBD Hotels are usually close to town rather than in the suburbs. Makes it easier to explore during free time.

Since I travel solo these days, it's nice to be with a small group for at least part of the trip and the ETBD groups have been great.

Using a Bus allows travel into areas that might not be well served by rail. I've found that planning travel between cities is sometimes the most challenging part of Itinerary planning for me (the DB website is a BIG help). Train travel can be pricey in some cases, so that has to be factored in as well.

I've spoken with friends that have taken "other" tours, and seem to be a lot of "hidden costs" with those. NO tips necessary with ETBD tours!

Whatever you decide, happy travels!

Full disclosure, I haven't taken any non-RS tours so I can't compare them. That said, I think there are 2 separate issues to address here.

1) Is it cheaper to go independently?

Yes and no. Traveling independently means you have far more control over costs. If you stay in 5-star hotels, hire a private driver, etc. it will likely cost more. If you stay in cheap hostels and eat Ramen, it'll be cheaper.

If you did a completely even comparison, I think you would find it to be pretty close--considering that private guides are not especially cheap and the tours tend to stay in nicer hotels and provide more complete meals (at least in Italy) than I ever ate on my own.

2) Are ETBD a good value?

As many of the other posters have pointed out, while the tours do cost a bit in dollars, the expenses are paid in euro/pounds, which is not favorable to ETBD right now. Additionally, not all of the benefits of the tour can be counted tangibly.

In the end, I think the decision to tour vs. independently travel depends more on who you are as a traveller. Money is a consideration, but for me at least, it's almost at the bottom of the list. Are you comfortable going to X destination on your own? Do you have the time and inclination to do your own research and travel arrangements? Do you want the companionship of being with a group?

After two tours in Italy, I am comfortable enough that I would travel there independently because I enjoy doing the research and having my own schedule. However, if I were to go to Turkey or even France, I would take another tour to help familiarize myself with the place.

I don't stay in 5-star hotels. I don't need lifts, independent reception, 24 hr room service, 7 day bar, or hand towel warmers (all required for 4/5 stars with German Hotel and Restaurant Assoc.). But I don't stay in "cheap hostels and eat Ramen", either.

I stay in family run Pensionen and Gasthäuser, and Privatzimmer, because they provide, I feel, a richer cultural experience. Besides breakfast, I eat at least one, usually two sit-down meals per day. I usually eat the local specialties, not steak. I like the convenience of trains, being able to watch the scenery or read, write in my journal, do my expenses, etc. I also like the freedom from worry about finding gas stations and bathroom, reading traffic signs, making wrong turn, or damaging the vehicle. I wouldn't rent a car unless it saved me significant money or got me somewhere I just had to go and couldn't get to any other way.

So, traveling the way I like to, in the last 5 yrs, I've spent an average of $103 (at today's exch. rate), single occupancy, per 24 hr period (52 nights).

Rick's Germany/Austria tour is 13 nights for $4120 with the single supplement, $314/night. And my wife gets brochures for tours from her alumni association; they're even more per night and often day itineraries say "you'll be free to explore ___ on your own" (meaning 'or take a cost-added tour').

It would seem to me that the biggest advantage of a tour, for those people with too much money, too busy, unknowledgeable, or too lazy to plan for themselves, is that someone plans the tour for you. For me, planning is the most fun part; the trip itself is almost anticlimactic. And, if you are visiting a place where you can't speak at least a little of the local language, a tour might be almost indispensable.

I am an independent traveler in Europe which I love, however the time I spend in planning a somewhat unique routing of a 3 wk summer vacation to stay about $100 p/p and see, do and transport planning during the 3 weeks is enormous!I would never log the hrs as it would leave me dazed. If the planning is not the way you wish to spend your spare time then a tour espec. like RS tours is a great value.IMO.

To answer your last question directly, the year after taking a RS tour I traveled independently again using RS books. My conclusion was that to do a trip on your own similar to the RS tour would add enough time & cost to the trip that it would be pretty much a wash in terms of cost for most people.

The 1st thing to consider is the amount of planning you need to do if you're traveling alone. Figuring out what cities to visit, coming up with a plan about what sights to see, making reservations, etc. -- all takes a good deal of time and effort. To be fair, on the flip side if there's something you want to see in an area and the tour doesn't go there then you're out of luck. So independent travel gives you flexibility at the cost of pre-trip planning time, which can be considerable.

Even ignoring the value of the planning time & effort saved thru a tour, I think that in terms of sights/places visited plus the guides that a RS tour equals what most people can do for the same trip cost. I'd say that on a RS tour you do in 2 days what it would take the independent traveler 3 days. You save time because the guide takes you around the city without getting lost, because they have reservations so you don't have to wait to get into museums and other attractions, because the buses go when the group needs them to go instead of waiting for public transport. Most independent travelers don't hire guides for all the museums they visit, take guided tours of each city, etc. You'd have to add these costs in when you estimate what it would cost to match the RS tour on your own.

A RS tour isn't the best choice for everyone. You may keep visiting the same country so that you know the ropes (esp. if you speak some of the language), you may not value having guides and be a more do-it-yourself person, you may enjoy using the public transit and being closer to the local folk, traveling 3 weeks on your own might be preferable to 2 weeks on a tour, and so on.

Steve,

To add to my original post (ran out of room in the first one), I'm currently working on my Itinerary for before and after the RS tour that I'm taking this year. I'm finding that (as usual) it's an enormous effort and a requires a significant committment of time. Even with the RS discounts, the Hotels are going to be a large part of my travel budget. I always choose the mid-range "budget" listings in Rick's books, and don't need a Lift or other amenities, but these are still a significant part of the trip budget.

As the "non-tour" part of my holiday will be somewhat extensive this year, that's adding to the work. I like to plan very precisely as I've found that minimizes (but doesn't always totally eliminate) any problems. Thank goodness for the Internet as that sure helps!

Travelling independently using Rick's books has always worked well for me, but it sure is a lot of work! The combination of a tour and some travel on my own is still my preferred method.

Cheers!

Steve - You can save a considerable amount of money traveling on your own or on other cheap tours but the experiences on Rick's tours are unique and really can't be compared. We have saved miles and hotel points to do a 5 week $2000 two person trip across Europe including all transportation and at 5 star hotels and Rick's picks. It was an amazing trip and I don't think I would have done it any differently.

After several trips to Europe independently, I took Rick's Greece tour after comparing other companies. All I have to say is that it was amazing. The guides and the experiences were excellent. There were several places I wouldn't have gone to or learned about on my own.

Then, I took Rick's Eastern Europe tour with a couple of friends. We all agreed we wouldn't have had the same experience on our own or on other tours (they had been on other companies tours). The guide and driver were fabulous and we went to places that wouldn't be on any other itinerary - stopping at a school to learn about the differences in education before and after the fall of communism from the principal, talking with the English class students, eating lunch in the cafeteria with students and local senior citizens, going to a winery where the winemaker doesn't export and doesn't speak English, learning about the experiences of our guide when war broke out in Slovenia, the description of what it was like as a child to become one of Tito's pioneers and the pride that went with it, how rowing and hockey are a way of life in Slovenia, how communism was different in Yugoslavia than in the other communist countries... The list is endless.

I will continue to do both independent travel and Rick's tours. With Rick's tours, I do my own travel at the end. I'll probably only go on a couple more tours for areas which I am not familiar or don't feel I could do the area justice on my own. My next tour is Rick's Turkey itinerary which is more reasonable compared to some of the others.

I agree with all of the posts here. Travel style is a matter of choice and availability of funds.

I took the Villages and Vineyards of Eastern France tour last September. It was my first RS tour. I think that the value is truly unmatched. Although I would opt for the single supplement next time, I think that it is really a great deal.

I have just returned home from spending the weekend with three people that I met on the tour. We all went to the Tour Reunion in Edmonds this weekend. Our tour guide was there from Beaune and we met two other couples there from our tour. I can tell you that the friendships that have been created will never be forgotten and the tour experiences were made even better because of those friendships.

I have also made lifelong friends through independent travel, but I think that the with types of people attracted to RS tours one is bound to make lifelong friends on the tours.

I wouldn't be as judgmental as some here about tours--they aren't just for those with too much money or those who are lazy. For a lot of people, they make a lot of sense. They provide a terrific introduction to an area and work out all the logistics so that you can see more per day of travel. They are a godsend to those without traveling partners and the recented bereaved--one of my co-workers found a tour and its comraderie very healing after losing his life partner suddenly.

I've never taken a tour myself and enjoy independent travel as a side perk of my business traveling. I'll be spending a month this summer in China and will be touring independently happily. But if I didn't speak any Chinese, I think I would be more comfortable on a tour. Not because I am rich or lazy, but because I think I would get more from the experience and would be saving the hassle and anxiety of having to negotiate hotels, trains, food, etc. with inadequate language skills.

Like April, I just returned from my Ireland tour reunion in Edmonds over the weekend. Five from our tour met up for a reunion plus I met up with guides from two previous tours and had great chats with them. I concur thoroughly with everything Ken says.

I think the tours are a great value. We always add on pre and post tour days so we get the independent travel. You also get some independent travel with a tour--- they want you to be an independent traveler with friends and buddies!