Estimating costs?

My hubby and I spent about $8500 (Cdn) last year, for 2 weeks (1 in London, the other in France) but we didn't cut as many corners as we could have. It could for sure be done a lot cheaper than we did it.

Of course I post this and then a few minutes later find this link: http://www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/37789/how-much-will-my-trip-cost.html

Guess that pretty much answers my question!

Darrell - The $10,000 is much more realistic for the time you'll be there, as well as the cities you'll be in. You don't want to spend three weeks worrying about money on an itinerary like you've chosen - Bite the bullet and ENJOY

Greg

$10K sounds a bit high to me for "2-3 weeks". In any case, 2 weeks would cost a lot less than 3 (one third less, in fact ;), so the first thing you need to settle on is exactly how long you'll be going for....without that, you can't make a reasonable estimate.

All that said, your goal of including "include all the major cities" is probably not realistic in a trip that short.

Going to major cities is expensive, and there is plenty to see in Europe outside of them. I've spent 40 days in Germany in the last 2+ years. 6 days were in Munich, 2 in Wuerzburg, the other 80% in rural areas. I stay in B&Bs (Privatzimmer), a few hotels, no hostels, travel by bus and rail (I really know how to minimize costs with public trans.), eat mostly sitdown meals in local restaurants, no picnics, a few sandwiches at the Bahnhof on the go. I might average $5 per day for attractions, most of what I go to see is free.

Traveling alone, I spend just about $100/day. But there is no way I could do that in major cities.

To help with expense and to focus your travel, I'd suggest that you focus on one or two areas. Maybe the UK- 2-3 weeks would be great there! Or Bravaria (Munich, Salzburg)- again you could do some extensive exploration. How would this save? You could rent an appartment/studio and have many meals on your own. With advance planning, you could save significantly. Even if you move around, focusing on a smaller area will help you plan- Europe is a HUGE place! Imagine someone saying they wanted to see the US in 2 weeks- see all the cities- NY, Chicago, Miami, LA and San Franciso. Would they have seen the US? Would they have any real idea of what our country is like? There is lots to see and do in places like the Cotswolds of England, the Highlands of Scotland, Bravaria, Notheren Italy, etc., etc. etc.

Darrell,

For a trip of 3-weeks, I'd suggest dropping Berlin from your list, due to time constraints and the fact this is somewhat "distant" from your other locations (therefore will require extra travel time). London, Paris, Munich & Rome would be a fairly easy travel route. Be sure to allow adequate travel times between cities!

Using open jaw flights (into London, out from Rome) would be the best idea.

Considering the occasion, budget Hotels would be a good choice for accommodations, but don't discount Hostels. Some have double rooms available, although these often book up quickly. The double rooms at Hostels may have two single beds, so maybe not as suitable for a honeymoon. There are lots of listings for good quality budget Hotels in the Guidebooks (in different price ranges), so that would be a good place to start.

The "usual" guideline is to allow about US$100 per person, per day however this cost doesn't necessarily have to double for two travelling together. This amount includes lodgings, food, local transportation and incidentals, but NOT air fare or Railpasses (if used).

This is a good "ballpark number" to use in planning, but there are variables that will affect this, including currency exchange rates at the time you travel and whether you want restaurant meals every night. Breakfasts will usually be provided (sometimes at small additional cost, other times included in the cost of the room). Lunch can be done fairly cheaply if using local Deli's or whatever. Given the occasion, budgeting for at least one "special" meal would be nice.

As this is your "first time", I'd highly recommend reading Europe Through The Back Door before you get too far in your planning.

Cheers!

I am going to go in a completely different direction. Berlin is perhaps the cheapest city to stay in of all the places in Europe. It has a multitude of apts. to rent at a fraction of the cost of a hotel or hostel. This can also save you money on food since you will have a kitchen to use. Berlin also offers about the cheapest food in restaurants too. Lots of free things there to see, but also great bike tours and walking tours at reasonable prices and tons of museums. It is easy to take the trains to other places of interest too, just use Berlin as your base. There are some wonderful places near-by, like the Spree Wald, Luebeck, Potsdam, Quedlinburg, (not sure about the spelling on some of those) and of course the 2 concentration camps - Sachsenhausen and Ravensbruck.

http://www3.quedlinburg.de/neu/englisch/

http://www.luebeck-tourism.de/

As a rule of thumb, do picnic dinners instead of lunches. Eat at restaurants at lunch time as most of them have lunch specials that will cost a lot less than dinner. Using public transportation will be cheaper than a car and also more fun. Riding the trains in Germany is a wonderful experience.

London will be your most expensive city, followed by Paris and Rome, and then Munich.

We are leaving tomorrow for a similar trip. We'll be visiting London, Paris, Munich and Rome doing an open jaw flight. I watched flights for a few months and then booked when I saw them going down. We paid $624.00 for flights out of Minneapolis and I haven't seen them lower.

We booked our train tickets between each city and I believe we saved quite a bit by doing so. All of them are point to point tickets. We have a pretty set itinerary and I like to travel that way. Yet, we are flexible about each day in the location we are at.

I booked hotels and B&B's about 3 months out. I did ALOT of research taking into consideration Rick's recommendations and also recommendations from Trip Advisor members. We are paying on average $125 US per night. I could have paid a little less if we did shared bathrooms, etc., but I wanted to have our own comfortable space.

I've put a pretty detailed expense sheet together and figure we will spend approximately $5,500.00 total (probably a little more if I buy some souvenirs!!)

Thanks for the all help. Like I said, we're still very much in the early planning stages and are 9 months out, so we wanted a rough savings target to shoot for.

Sounds like a tad north of $8,000 for a 14 day trip would be good.

Consider hostels. Many have double rooms.

Someone suggested a good hostel in London here within the last couple of days.

Berlin and Munich:

http://www.wombats-hostels.com/#

We stayed at the one in Munich....VERY clean and they do have a double room with in-suite bath and shower.

Link for hostels in Rome:
http://www.hostelz.com/hostels/Italy/Lazio/Rome

http://www.bug.co.uk/reviews/hostels/Europe/Italy/Rome--Lazio-Latium/Rome-Roma/index.htm

Darrell,

We did one month in Europe (combination of large cities and smaller towns all from Rick's book, except for 4 days to Sweden for a family reunion), for around $9,000-$9,500 (July of 2008 the average exchange rate was about 1.53) for everything except airfare (we used miles for airfare). This included a couple flights inside Europe, all rail, lodging, food, entertainment, and sightseeing (oh, and a few bottles of wine brought back from the Mosel!).

This was our first trip, so we weren't sure what to expect. Did A LOT of planning and did detailed expense estimates before we left. We had budgeted about $1,-000-$2,000 more than that, but by crossing things off the list while there (tired or changed our plans) or just spending less, we came home with about $3000 less then estimated (plus we had built a 10% buffer into our plans...just in case.)

We averaged about 90 euro/night for our lodging at small hotels and bed/breakfasts all from Rick's books. We also saved money by paying point to point for our rail and buying in advance those tickets that you could get special rates on (like Dauer Spezial in Germany). We did a few picnic meals, but mostly because that's what we felt like doing as opposed to having to do to save money. We ate and drank well! It helped by staying in places that included breakfast each day as part of the room cost.

This was our delayed honeymoon, so we also splurged in a few cities (and scrimped in a few places) so we could stay at a nicer place and treat ourselves. We didn't want to come back with any regrets about not doing something, and I think we accomplished that.

Good luck with planning! This is a great board to use to help plan your trip. Spending the time figuring out where you want to go and then crunching the numbers of all your activities and travel costs will give you a pretty good idea of what your budget will be.

Congrats on your upcoming wedding!

Anytime we talk about how much we spend on a trip to Europe, we should try to eliminate large variables.

Like airfare: Someone going from San Francisco to Rome can't do the trip as inexpensively as someone going from Boston to Dublin. Some people get to use FF miles from business trips; some of us can't. In 2000, I paid $900 for RT airfare to FRA; in 2004 I paid $282. Considering that airfare averages about 25% of total cost (for me, at least), and varies so much from time to time and place to place, it's meaningless to use someone elses airfare to budget your trip.

Exchange rate: Although cost of food, accommodations, and transportation have been pretty stable in Euro, the Euro has varied a lot vs. the dollar. My first trip in 2000 it was $0.86/Eur. Right now it's $1.47 (70% higher). Last year it was $1.28. So trying to use someone's costs at last years exchange rate is also meaningless. Express the cost in Euro.

In 2007, traveling alone, I spent €76/day/pers. In 2008, I spent €70/day/pers. This year, I spent €75/day/pers. That's for everything over there; accom, transportation, meals, entrances, misc.

A good place to find consistent and inexpensive accommodations is at the Accor group of hotels. It's a huge chain, based out of France, that owns several marques. Their Etap and Ibis hotels are good value across Europe, basic but clean and modern with ensuites.

Hi Darrell, My mom and I did a 14 day trip this past spring to London, Paris, Murren, Venice, Rome and Sorrento (yes, we moved fast!) and it cost about $4000/per person, everything included. We stayed at many places that were called hostels, but always got private rooms. We did tons of research ahead of time and really kept our lodging and meal costs as low as we could. Stayed at the EasyHotel in London for 25GPP/night, can't beat that!! One good meal out a day was enough for us (snacks and grocery store stops helped save money). The Beehive in Rome is an awesome "hostel" with private rooms at a great price. As previously suggested, once you come up with a better idea of an itinerary that includes the lenght of your trip and your destinations, you'll be able to get a much better idea of what this trip will cost you. I think the figure of $100 a day is a bit on the low side, even if your being economical - but I think you could figure on an $8000 ball park figure for your trip. Good luck! Hope you have a great time!

My tips are,, the move you move around the more the trip costs,, and I have a one country one week rule myself... So for the three weeks ( Which I recommend over 2 weeks, since the airfare is same,, but how often will you get over there, so stay as long as you can) ,, I would Fly into London, Eurostar to Paris, and fly to Rome. This would likely be cheapest. I flew one way Paris to Rome for 80 euros when I booked well in advance with Vueling, and I have purchased return Eurostar tickets for under 75 euros twice.. book in advance .

Remember first 2 days you are a bit jet lagged, so don't make the trip the Bataan Death March,, enjoy what you are seeing.

I find I can vacation in Europe a bit cheaper then Ricks 100 a day pp .. and thats not with hostels. You can find decent double rooms in most cities for less then 100 euros per night,, even cheaper if try and book well in advance. June is super high season( even worse then booking in mid July through August) but there are deals out there.

Have fun planning and researching the trip,, it really will make a huge difference, the more you know the more you will save, and the more you will see!

I would agree with Norm.

Combining Ibis hotels, with overnight accommodations on the train and you can do well. Ibis hotels do not (usually) have included breakfast, but we prefer to hit up coffee shops anyway. And buy stuff the night before, butter, jam, baked goods etc.

Eating at train stations or points of transit are good ideas in some locations. The Main Budapest Train is a good example of this. Also, hit up Tesco stores if they are available for food.

I am a very skilled budget-minded and disciplined traveler to Europe for the last 7 yrs. With out airfare to and from US I have successfully used a $100 or less per day per person budget. However to include multi-day stays in your choices of London, Paris & Rome I would add to that figure approx 30% for those locations. Work out an itin to incl your intereurope transportation carefully then see your estimate. It is your honeymoon so select at least a few days of special lodging and eating, ck RS guidebk for suggestions with vg value and spending guidelines. all the best. Planning is very key to accurate cost estimates.

These things are so hard to calculate because there are so many variables. Exchange rate is such a big variable. When someone says, "Oh, I only spent $4000 for four weeks, it matters greatly whether it was 8 years ago, when the Euro was $0.98, 7 years ago, when it was $1.12, or one year ago, when it was $1.28, or a year before that, or this August, when it was $1.43, or now when it is $1.49. I've made four two week trips to Europe in the last 5 years, and my expenses, in Euro/day, have been almost the same, €70-€73 per day, but my $/day, with exchange rate has been $78-$110 $/day.

Even if you state the cost in Euro/day for your actual expenses on the ground in Europe, what country are you traveling in? Considering low cost B&Bs and regional rail passes, Germany is the least expensive country in Europe to travel in. Even there, there is a difference. On one trip, I spent €86/day in Munich, €70/day outside of Munich. London or Paris will cost more than rural Italy.

Other variables: do you stay in hostels, or in family run B&Bs, or do you stay in 3-5 star hotels, in big cities or in rural areas? Do you only ride in 1st class, with a rail pass, or do you use regional passes? Do you fly, or do you rent a car? Do you eat in sit down restaurants, or do you "dumpster dive"?

Considering all the variables, there is no way anyone elses experiences means anything. You have to figure it out yourself.

Where are you going, how are you traveling (air, car, rail, walk)? There are website that will help you estimate it closely once you have defined your travel.

Where are you staying. Make reservations, or at least make a list of possible accommodations. That way you will know your lodging cost.

What about food? I have found that I spend about €20 per day. I don't eat extravagantly, but I don't scrimp. You can spend less on food, but not zero. If you splurge every day, you can spend a lot more.

I figure on $100/day/person. This does not include airfare, but includes a rental car and gas every inch of the way. This is for three trips of about a month each (each with two travelers) in the past twelve months. Each had a few (but not many) days in Rome, Paris, Amsterdam, or London. Admittedly the cost is creeping with the falling dollar, but we can still do it. The bulk of the time is spent outside of major cities. Hostels are out except in remote parts of the UK. Budget hotels are in. Supper is pretty darn nice, but not extravagant. Breakfast and lunch consist of bread/cheese/sausage out of the shopping bag in the back of the car (usually). Cross-channel car ferries are included. A daily shot or two of grog is included. T-shirts are not. Note that RS seems to exclude intra-european transportation in his thoughts. I include it. Cars trump trains for two or more travelers.

In my experience, cars are always more expensive, even for two or more travelers, than rail.

My last trip for two to Germany we flew into Stuttgart, went by train to Rothenburg, then to Berchtesgaden, and then to the Allgäu, which is the south-west corner of Bavaria, near the border with Baden-Württemberg, just up from Bodensee. While in the Allgäu we made side trips to Lindau and Füssen. Finally we went by train via Ulm to Sigmaringen and the last day we returned to Stuttgart. We traveled almost 900 miles. Total cost of rail was $305 for two people for two weeks. Because we made extensive use of Länder-Tickets, five people would have cost about the same.

A compact car, which would have been fine for two people, way too small for five, would have cost us $452 for the two weeks (Gemut, no CDW). Fuel, per ViaMichelin, would have been another $160, $612 total, so a rental car with fuel would have cost us twice what we paid for rail.

But, that is without CDW. Some people have had a good experience using their credit card for insurance; some have been burned. Using CC insurance is not equivalent to using the train, where you have no liability and no worry. Taking CDW would have added over $300 to the rental, making it 3 times ($971 vs $305) as expensive.

It's hard to hold expenses to $200/day ($100/person) when you are spending $45-$70 per day on a car.

A few thoughts on London - it's my favorite city in Europe [though I still need to check out a few others]. I have had excellent lodgings at 2 different B&B networks, At Home in London and London Home to Home; two of us spent 4 nights this past August a few blocks from the Gloucester Road tube stop for 75GBP per night with a nice English breakfast. If you can stay longer, consider renting a flat as others have recommended - it's really nice to have your own space, and a great savings if you can cook some dinners at home.
I've never been to Rome but think may be pretty toasty in late June, so you might consider saving it for your next trip, at a different time of year. Best wishes for happy planning and a wonderful honeymoon!

My husband and I took a 3 week honeymoon in May/June of last year to France, Switzerland, and Italy. We didn't stay in any hostels. We stayed in moderately priced hotels. We splurged for a much nicer hotel in Sorrento for a few nights. Our entire trip (including souvenirs, snacks, etc.) was roughly $7,000 - $8,000. Paying entrance fees to museums, sites, etc., adds up pretty quickly. Luckily the public museums in London are free!

BERLIN is by far your cheapest in terms of staying in Pensionen and two star hotels or three star hotels for the price of a two star. What you pay in Paris for a two star, you might able to get for a three star in BERLIN , if it is offering a special rate. PARIS and LONDON are very pricey in accomodations, there you just might be spending 80-110 euros a night, depending on your definition of luxury. In BERLIN a DZ (Doppelzimmer) will be about 60-70 euros, the price for a single in Paris and London, if not more. This past summer I encountered this in London, that is, if you pay at the B&B using Visa, an additional surcharge of 2-4% was added on. In France and Germany I never encountered that! I always stay in the Charlottenburg area in Berlin, where you find some very nice two and three star hotels. If you want the hostels instead, go to Mitte or the Prenzlauer Berg district.

Munich is historically always more expensive than BERLIN on accomodations. Wombat's is the best hostel in Munich (right across from Hauptbahnhof) and Berlin,(close to Ostbahnhof), if you want a hostel. PARIS, MUNICH and BERLIN are all connected by a direct night train to each other. If you are going by day, then Paris to Munich would require transfering in Offenburg, just east of Strasbourg.

Look into what the discount air lines offer from London Stansted to Berlin Tegel or Schonefeld, Some of those fares can get pretty cheap depending on the day of the flight.

If you intend on traveling by rail, get the Select Pass or the France-Germany Pass. Paris to Berlin or Munich are long rides--I've done these as day rides because I had the time and wanted to see the German countryside again---and a couple of these will pay for your pass.

Flying in and out of London from the US is the cheapest while doing that from Paris is the most expensive. Maybe you want fly into Frankfurt aM.--it's cheaper than Paris but more than London, normally.

If you are willing to commit to a specific day and train and purchase your tickets in advance (at least 3 days, much earlier recommended), you can get 2nd cl. Europa-Spezial Frankreich tickets for as low as €39 ($60) pP, Berlin to Paris or Munich to Paris, or Dauer-Special from Berlin to Munich for €29 pP ($45). That's a lot less expensive than even a four day France/Germany railpass (Saver $364, $94/day., if you use all four days).

There is a TGV direct (no change) from Stuttgart to Paris. It goes through Strasbourg but not Offenburg, and there is an ICE direct from Munich to Stuttgart. Both those trains will be included in the Munich to Paris Europa-Spezial ticket.

Given the choice of transfering or catching a train in Stuttgart or Offenburg, I would choose Stuttgart too,... for obvious reasons.

Car 30, gas 25, room 65, supper 45, lunch 10, breakfast 5. That's $180. The other 20 gets eaten up by high gas days, city hotels, entrance fees. This is for France and Italy. Spain and Portugal are cheaper, GB higher, Scandanavia and Switzerland out of sight. No real opinion about Germany since it's been done well enough before and doesn't seem to be a favorite area.

In the first place, expenses in US$ are meaningless. What I spent last year, when the Euro was $1.28 cents (or 2000, when it was 89 cents), doesn't compare with now, when the Euro is $1.50. Second, was that for one person or for two?