Eating in the street - banned in Florence and elsewhere

You might try asking this on one of the threads already discussing this topic Here's one;

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/italy/florence-picnic-fines

I can understand why the locals get upset. People can be pigs- they spill drinks, drop food everywhere, and don't dispose of their trash properly. They obstruct sidewalks and entrances. Buy your snacks or street food by all means. But take it to a park or bench out of the way.

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Yes there is, just like people eating on the bus or subway. I don't want to smell your food or watch you chewing. If you looked at the caption under the picture, the people were sitting on the steps to a Cathedral, ugh. Go find a park or walk and keep moving.

I don't want to smell your food or watch you chewing.

So you always eat alone? Never go to restaurants?

I'm not trying to be snide. I am trying to understand.

If you are trying to understand, as you say, read again the above post from Cjean. If you can find a park bench to sit on while you ingest food, that would be fine. But walking along a street chewing on a mouthful of food is just plain disgusting, and sitting at the entrance to a Cathedral or other tourist attraction eating a piece of pizza is not very classy. If this is something you are in the habit of doing in Europe, please consider how it looks to others.

I was recently in Venice. The only place I saw garbage was St Marks. I was really appalled at how tourists (or anyone) could pollute any public place. Pick up your garbage and take it with you!

Sorry a bit of a rant!

Ice cream joints will have issues. By the time I found a bench to sit on I’d have ice milk. No more ice cream. Bummer.

If I ate in a restaurant I wouldn't be on the street or sitting on someone's steps and I would expect to smell food. What does eating alone have to do with the topic?

But walking along a street chewing on a mouthful of food is just plain disgusting, and sitting at the entrance to a Cathedral or other tourist attraction eating a piece of pizza is not very classy. If this is something you are in the habit of doing in Europe, please consider how it looks to others.

Every day I walk along my road at home in the US eating a banana (one hour into a two-hour walk) and it has never once occurred to me that someone might find this disgusting.

I was brought up with very good table manners (which piece of silverware to use, what to do with one's napkin, don't put your elbows on the table, etc.), but no one ever told me it was impolite, much less disgusting, to eat in public outside of a restaurant. I don't believe that's a norm any place where I have lived, and eating fruit on the street is something I've been doing all my life.

I understand that cultures differ, and that this may be a cultural difference. And if it's a norm in Europe not to eat on the street, OK. That's good to know. The judgment of "disgusting" is the part that I don't understand. How is it disgusting to you for me to be eating a banana while walking on the street but not disgusting to you if I am eating it in a cafeteria? It's a banana going into my mouth in your presence either way.

Do eat your banana and I promise not to be disgusted. Had I known you were talking about bananas my answer would have been different. You kind of changed the conversation. Have a candy bar while you are at it as well

Things that can be eaten on while walking on the street:
Banana (Norma says it's OK)
Apple
Peach if it's not too juicy
Ice cream both cone or dish
Tip of a fresh warm baguette
Berries if you're dainty

Things that cannot be eaten while walking on the street:
Spaghetti
Cereal
Pie with ice cream
BBQ ribs
Buffalo wings

If the locals wanted to institute fines as a deterrent against what they perceived to be a problem, then respect it. If you don't want to abide by it because you think it doesn't make sense, then don't visit - spend your tourist dollars elsewhere. You've got a choice.

It's not hard to understand why they may have opted for this route. I can tell you as someone who has lived in a lot of large cities all over the United States, as well as having lived overseas in Italy, a lot of visitors can be absolute pigs. I'm not saying all of them, but enough to be a nuisance. It's precisely because they don't live there, they feel perfectly o.k. discarding their trash on the sidewalks or the steps of private residences. I've lived in some pretty upscale and very popular neighborhoods in these cities where I've been close to tourist sites and popular restaurants/bars that draw visitors, so I can tell you I've seen all sorts of things on the sidewalk or steps in front of my home. Chewing gum, beer bottles, food wrappers, puddles of urine - now I expect some of the local dogs can't always make it to the dog park, but some of it is from drunken tourists or suburbanites leaving the bars down the street who figure once the sun goes down it's ok to duck into the entryways of private residences and piss against the brick walls or on the steps. I've seen things as gross as used condoms and also what I guess I'm supposed to consider "organic" trash - discarded banana peels and apple cores which, if left sitting where they are, attract flies, roaches or other critters that I really don't want on my front steps. Maybe you are the one saint who is carrying your empty banana peel for 2 hours until you find a trash can or composting bin, but some won't even carry their trash down one block to dump it in the public trash and recycling bins that are right out there for anyone to use.

I'm sure someone will argue that city dwellers can also be trash-strewing pigs, and not saying we are all saints, but generally if you live somewhere you tend to not "sh!t where you eat" because it is your home, so when outsiders show up and engage in this behavior over and over again, then yeah, I think it's easy to see why they might institute fines in an effort to quell it.

And if you've ever ridden public transportation in any big US city you're well aware of the state of the seats and floors at the end of the day. In Chicago, our buses were regularly sprayed for roaches.

You're probably unaware of the rat problem many tourist destinations are reporting this year. Not all is due to the proliferation of food garbage not stowed properly, of course, but the pressures of mass tourism and the accompanying desire for "cheap eats" certainly makes up a part of the problem

Agree with poster above. If the rules customs conventions etc of the area you plan to visit are too much for you, go somewhere else. Next you'll be wondering if it's ok to wear hot pants and a revealing tank top to mass at Notre Dame pointing out that there's no law against it.

I can't explain the reasons behind the cultural part of it, but it's been part of their culture for years. Even visiting less touristy parts of Italy in the late 60's and in the 70's, it was considered gauche to sit and eat outside of a restaurant area. We learned very quickly that this was a "no-no". Perhaps it's an affront to the food, to the buildings. We were chastised in Italian as if we were strumpets--and we would not have dared to litter after eating so it wasn't that. Just as they consider it gauche to order latte/cappuccino after noon, or salad before the entree. It's like how Americans won't normally share a dining table with strangers, or how Germans won't normally eat food with their fingers, not using chopsticks in some Asian cultures . . . it's a manners/cultural thing. Makes the world a fascinating place!

I suspect that the cultural aspect of it is down to the fact that Europeans in general have always spent time over their meals which have always been a sit down affair. Snacking between meals is not common which is why you won't see many Europeans eating whilst walking.

There are exceptions of course, town centres on a weekend evening with revellers stumbling along with a kebab, slice of pizza etc being the main one.

I don't walk and eat/drink, I don't like it. I prefer to sit down and enjoy it leisurely.

If you really want to upset Italians or many other Europeans, touch your food. There should always be paper or a napkin between your hand and your food if not using knife, spoon or fork.

And in France don't even think of using your hands to eat a hamburger. The burger goes on a plate, is cut into at least quarters and eaten with a fork. Hamburgers are especially popular in France now, and clutched in the hands, indicate American tourists no matter how else these tourists may try to disguise themselves.

Southern Europeans neither graze constantly, nor walk around with cardboard coffee cups. Nor do they have obesity problems. Food is to be eaten at a table, with utensils, and at mealtime. Example: Just did a 3-hour mountain hike with 8 French people this morning. No one nibbled-nothing, nada. No trail mix, dried fruit, bananas, cheese, cookies. We did enjoy grapes from an abandoned vine, though. But as soon as we got back to our residence, everyone rushed off to their apartments to get the main meals of the day on the table for the set-in-stone mealtime of 1:00. This lifestyle has the built-in advantage of weight control in addition to liter control.

Obviously, the take-out place talked about in the article needs to spring for outdoor seating and table service to keep the neighborhood from becoming a pig trough.

Anyone else remember poster who had bought half a roasted duck at a market to eat in his hotel room? The owner of the hotel rushed over and insisted he use the dining room. Now that is a cultural canyon.

No peaches, Karen. If they aren't organic, they are peeled, otherwise cut in half, and eaten from a plate.

Finally, Marcia, this article was snidely written to evoke reactions, but as you see from the responses on this thread, many people disapprove of eating on the street, in the bus and subway, bringing hot cups of coffee into crowded spaces just because Starbucks sells it to go, secret sauce all over the hands and running down the arms, drinking coffee in bathrooms--
Now let's talk about tipping. Get the pop corn.

The only part of people eating out on the street I find disgusting is how they tend to simply drop their leftovers and whatever type of package the food came in on the ground when they are done. Part of that is the lack of trash receptacles, which would require the city to pay someone to empty them, but it is mostly just people are pigs.

I am all for banning consuming of foods and drinks on public transit. Too easy to spill your hot coffee or smear your pizza slice on someone when things get crowded. And the odors have no place to go. Nothing quite like smelling week old tuna sandwich that was stuffed under the subway seat. Yum.

I don't know why it became popular in the UK to walk around with half a pint of coffee in a cardboard cup, only that it appears to have coincided with the rise of Costa Coffee. I even see, mainly women, pushing a trolley round the supermarket, coffee cup in hand whilst doing their shopping. Is there really a desperate need? I'm sure none of us were doing our shopping previously whilst gagging for a coffee and I don't understand why it has to be so much. It doesn't even look pleasurable.

I spent this afternoon walking through a few parks in Geneva, Switzerland and noticed a plethora of benches and garbage receptacles. It looks like Geneva is the perfect place for outdoor eating!

walking along a street chewing on a mouthful of food is just plain disgusting, and sitting at the entrance to a Cathedral or other tourist attraction eating a piece of pizza is not very classy.

While I agree that the latter is not classy, I don't see why the former is disgusting.

There should always be paper or a napkin between your hand and your food if not using knife, spoon or fork.

I think there's an exception for oysters.

Nor do they have obesity problems.

Based on my last few trips, I don't think that's true anymore, at least in France. Although they haven't reach America's level yet.

And in France don't even think of using your hands to eat a hamburger.

I've seen how popular McDonald's is in France. I assume you don't get a knife and fork there. I have seen hamburgers on the menu at real restaurants, but I'm not about to order one. But yes, I'm not surprised that most French people would eat one with a knife and fork.

I even see, mainly women, pushing a trolley round the supermarket, coffee cup in hand whilst doing their shopping. Is there really a desperate need? I'm sure none of us were doing our shopping previously whilst gagging for a coffee and I don't understand why it has to be so much. It doesn't even look pleasurable.

JC, I assure you that sipping a cup of coffee while strolling around is pleasurable for those of us who are addicted to caffeine :)

Not the fault of Costa, at least they will serve you in a real reusable cup unless you ask for take away. Starbucks has to share the blame for all the masses permanently attached to their large cup of coffee especially since they (at least the ones I have been to) don't seem to understand the concept of reusable washable ceramic cups.
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Agree Robert that the scales are creeping upward in France, but size 12 is considered for the "large woman" in France, while it's average for the States.

Just saw a candy bar commercial on French TV. It had a health warning plastered on it, like the smoking warnings. It said "Avoid eating between meals".

If the French never eat a whole peach out of hand, they are missing one of summer's greatest pleasures. A perfect peach with juice dripping down the chin is heaven.

JC- our shopping cars/trolleys come with cup holders now.

The original Guardian article fails to spot that the Florence ban is due to an accident happened on Aug. 20th: three Spanish tourists were eating sitting on a sidewalk and littering, a shopkeeper complained and the thing escalated into a brawl, where the shopkeeper was kicked by the tourists.

So there is not a philosophy after the new Florence rule, just the need for municipal authorities to be seen doing something facing a problem. Most people in Florence think the new rule is ineffective, the real problem is that there are too many unruly tourists. Almost every day one of them is seen writing their name on ancient walls - there is an eur 3000 fine, and it is still ineffective.

We Americans are breathing a sigh of relief that the tourists were Spanish!

What I find fascinating is that no one seems to have even read or understood the rule under discussion. The rule is limited to only four streets and only during specific hours. Not really a big deal.

What I find fascinating is that no one seems to have even read or understood the rule under discussion. The rule is limited to only four streets and only during specific hours. Not really a big deal.

I'm the one who started the discussion, and what I asked people to comment about was not the rule itself but the disgust at eating in public that appeared in a lot of the commentary on eating in public. And several of the comments, particularly from Diane in Washington, JC in Portsmouth and Bets in Indiana, did speak to that. Thank you!

Oh, well, then .... not as dire as originally thought. People are still free to eat a slice of nice garlicky pizza on the street, on the steps of a cathedral or while leaning against an ancient, revered monument in the beautiful city of Florence.

And walking while eating gelato is just fine!

My comment - Europeans are not squeamish about people eating outside. They are just fed up with rude tourist behavior.

It isn't mentioned in the article but another reason carelessly discarded/spilled/dropped food is a problem? Feral pigeons. It draws them, and the acid in their excrement is extremely corrosive to buildings and fountains and can (and does) damage them irreversibly. Along with it being a very serious concern when those buildings and fountains are really, really OLD, it's expensive to try to manage. They're known disease carriers as well.

For that reason, it's generally against the law to intentionally feed the birds (which are mostly pigeons) in piazzas and other main areas even though you may see street vendors covertly selling seed. Starving them out is just one of many methods used to try and divert them from historic centers. Even Las Vegas is battling the bird!

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-illegal-pigeon-vegas-2017-story.html

"Europeans" encompasses a wide geographic, cultural, and generational array. My statements apply to what's commonly referred to as south of the Alps. Also, the younger generation is doing a lot of sipping and grazing in bars, cheaper way to socialize. Even younger than the millennial grazers, we heard a schoolgirl say "mmm ketchup" to her mother in a French supermarket the other day. I guarantee you her ancestors would have intervened with any child who found ketchup edible. So times are changing, but they do eat at fixed hours, at a table, and with utensils.

Why do so many walk around with coffees in hand? Best guess - the fast pace of life these days - everyone has 101 things to do, who has time to sit and relax with a coffee for 20-30 min? Tourists maybe, but not the locals on their way to work, or dropping off their kid at school, or running errands. (PS - I'm all for relaxing with a hot beverage in hand - preferably tea or hot chocolate ;) )

If you have time to be on this website, you have time for a cup of coffee in a real cup. It’s a matter of cultural choice, a bill of goods that’s been sold to the public.

who has time to sit and relax with a coffee for 20-30 min.

I do, every morning but then I get up early enough to make packed lunches for my wife and the kids, make the kids breakfast, then mine and enjoy a couple of coffees before seeing the kids off to school all before 8 am.

Same here but no apologies for to-go cups on road trips, for early sightseeing walkabouts, day of errands, take-alongs to work (when I was still working), etc. I don't get it in ceramic mugs when sitting at our coffee shop of choice because lidded paper cups or my own insulated container keeps it hotter longer. I can nuke it at home if cools down too much.

My comment - Europeans are not squeamish about people eating outside. They are just fed up with rude tourist behavior.

So true @Emily, so true... this coming from someone living in one of the most heavily visited cities in the continent, so I know very well what Emily means. And again, I also agree that bad behaviour is not exclusive to (some) visitors, there are plenty of locals who also litter, but it's equally true that you don't tend to "s**t where...." (I love this expression, LOL!) as much.

who has time to sit and relax with a coffee for 20-30 min.

You should be aware that there are not only different customs but also different "values" in different parts of the world. Stopping for a coffee (a proper one, as it's meant to be!) or sitting on a table with utensils for lunch -as someone else mentioned above- is something almost "sacred" in most of Europe and if you don't have time, you make time... and again, Europe is 50+ countries with 80+ distinct national groups each one with their own ways, traditions and habits.

This, of course, is a generalisation, and it doesn't necessarily apply to every single citizen. This is to show that what might be "normal" to you it's not necessarily normal for everybody else. In some countries, people might work longer hours than in yours and this might well be because our schedules are different to yours, for example, we take time to eat at lunchtime, outside the office/workplace and possibly with work colleagues with whom socializing is part of the relationship. Therefore, lunch is not just about "being fed" but also about socializing in the process, and this can't possibly be done in a 15' break at your desk -if you know what I mean.

Just one of many differences among different cultures and this doesn't criminalize the fact you might have different habits and (try) to live by them when visiting :)

Btw... I don't want to be the white elephant in the room... but to all those "coffee drinkers" in this discussion... shall we start talking about what "a coffee" really is (or is supposed to be) ??

One of the reasons you don't see many people "with a plastic cup of coffee" in the streets of Europe is because a coffee -for a lot of us, I would "dare" to say the majority of us in this side of the Atlantic- is something you drink in a sip or two... or if you go a bit beyond and involve milk in it, in a fairly small cup (add a few more sips et voilà, finished as well, lol!) You won't find many people drinking "cauldrons of diluted runny coffee" in these shores. No pun intended (just a bit of healthy sarcasm). Having said that, I recall having had some of the best expressos I've ever tasted in coffee shops in NY -so not everything is lost, LOL!.

Yes, back in Spain we have something called a Cortado which is similar to an espresso. It consists of a small glass of coffee that is "cut" with some warm milk. I am surprised by how hard it is to find a Cortado here in the United States, I have only been able to find it in Cuban restaurants.

I am also bewildered by the gallon of creamy sugar with a hint of coffee that one usually finds here in the States... :)