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Title changed: Rolling Plan for WWII Trip May, 2023

Hello!
I am starting to visualize my next trip for myself (57F) and son (26M) for May, 2023. Please don't answer if the vagueness of my question bothers you. We will likely fly in and out of Paris. The focus of the trip will be Normandy and Bastogne. My son is interested in WWII. I prefer medieval Europe but will enjoy "eating somebody else's pizza". I am thinking of visiting the following cities by train or bus only, we will not rent a car: Bayeux, Caen, Rouen, Bastogne, Luxembourg City and Paris. We have about 2 weeks.

My son likes to travel quick. His preference is 1- 2 nights, 3 max in one place. See the few most important things and move on. We took a trip like that this year and it works well for us. For example, if we could stop in Rouen for 4 hours and move on, that would work.

For those of you that know these areas, and this was your brief, how would you go about it? Would you stop in Reims to break up the trip from France to Belgium? I would prefer a 4 hour max train ride per day.

TIA

Posted by
187 posts

There is a small and good WW2 museum in Reims near the train station (Musee de la Reddition.) So if you stop there, consider it, as well as Reims Cathedral with it's Smirking Angel and lovely interior. Adjacent Bishops Palace has killer tapestries and statuary.

Posted by
7253 posts

Hi Vandrabrud,

Several years ago, we stayed in Caen and had a wonderful tour of the WWII sites, and we also really liked the museum in Caen. I’ve heard most people prefer staying in Bayeux.

Since you are in the early stages of planning, I am going to give you the link to our 2019 trip report - mainly because you mentioned Rouen and you said you enjoy medieval Europe. That comment made me think you would love adding nearby Le Mans. It’s a 2-hour train from Caen but very enjoyable to stay there, too.

https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/trip-reports/our-combined-solo-couple-vacation-in-france-2019

Posted by
365 posts

I would add Reims, partly for bubbly and also then I could then add Verdun in along my way!

Posted by
2943 posts

Consider flying into Paris or Brussels and out the other.
If you’re not renting a car, sleep in Caen and hire a guide for the day so you can go to the Arromanches Port Winston Artificial Harbor, Omaha Beach and the WWII Normandy American Cemetery and Memorial. Rick Steves guidebook may suggest someone to hire.
You can take direct trains between Caen and Bayeux, Rouen and Paris. I don’t see a direct train between Bayeux and Rouen and that’s why I say sleep in Caen.
From Rouen take a train to Luxembourg that requires a connection in Paris. Bastogne makes a good day trip from Luxembourg. From Luxembourg take a direct train to Brussels.

Posted by
14503 posts

From Paris as day trips or overnighters, the places listed Rouen, Caen , Bayeux and Reims (the only places I am familiar with here and have visited at least once,) can be done easily by train. I don't rent a car in France either. If you do decide to rent a car, and based on your son's interest in WW2, west of Bayeux is the German cemetery at La Cambe.

Close to Reims if you want to see a WW1 site connected to the US is Chateau-Thierry, plus the WW1 Anglo-French military cemetery is there too.

If this were my trip, I would have specific historical sites and museums in Brussels to track down. However, with only 2 weeks it's better to stick with France and seeing the numerous WW2 museums in Normandy.

Posted by
1478 posts

Thank you for all of your replies!! I will read them over more carefully tomorrow.
@Fred, yes, a line has to be drawn somewhere to end the trip. My son doesn't like to plan, but always seems pleased with my planning. His main location of interest is Bastogne/Ardennes forest. I added Normandy and Rouen was just for me.

So if you have a different suggestion that skips Normandy but includes Bastogne/Ardennes and Brussels I would be happy to consider that as well.

Posted by
6275 posts

I don't think your question is vague at all. Vague to me is someone asking "I'm going to Europe in the fall. Where should I go?" 😊

Posted by
457 posts

Maybe look into a private driver for a day or two in the Normandy area, there are probably several places that those tours don't go that would be of interest ... we rented a car to explore that area (plus Mt St Michel) but took the train in from Paris, quick easy trip ... haven't been to Bastogne / Luxembourg yet, planning to do that next April, but we will have a car ... I'd leave out of Brussels and save the time/expense it will take to get back to Paris.

Our style seems similar to yours, but since we usually rent a car we aren't tied to train schedules ... having a set schedule makes it more difficult and there is all that time needed to get to/from stations, the waiting for the trains/buses and the possibility of missing your train/bus and having to wait possibly many hours for the next one ... going to take some precise planning and good execution to make it work.

Posted by
14503 posts

@ vandrabrud....... If you are willing to forgo Normandy, then you can concentrate on the Battle of the Bulge (the Ardennes Offensive) by going to Lux. City after Bastogne.

Several museums on this battle are located in Luxembourg. Lux City has the German military cemeteries from WW1 and WW2. The military museum in Diekirch would most likely fascinate your son.

Posted by
3240 posts

We spent a night in Reims on our way from Paris to Bastogne. Our 2019 trip was very similar to yours. We're traveling this week; so I will share my thoughts next week.

Posted by
7253 posts

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Posted by
3215 posts

Vandrabrud, I don't think you are planning too early at all. I have the next two years mostly planned! That's what I do in the cold, dark, winters here! I'm not too much help, but just a plug for Bayeux as we spent two nights there and loved it. Great location for the Normandy sites, although transport to some of the sites might be a challenge without a car. We hired a guide for a private tour and did the D-Day beaches and American cemetery.

Posted by
1478 posts

Thank you everyone for your replies. I will be looking into all of the suggestions as time moves along. Luke definitely wants to go to Normandy. Right now, the trip is looking like this as far as nights: Paris 2, Bayeaux/Caen 4, Rouen 1, Reims 2, Bastogne 3 and Luxembourg 2. I haven't checked the travel routes yet, but it is a starting skeleton. Flying out of Luxembourg is as easy as flying out of Brussels. I have some flights tagged and am watching prices. I too will be spending cold dark days planning for travel!

After this trip will be a jaunt to Oregon to visit our other son and a side trip to the Redwood Forest.

Posted by
27063 posts

Caen is the public-transportation hub for its immediate area. It's also the location of the very large, time-consuming (could be a full day) Peace Museum that covers not just the Normandy invasion but the lead-up period to WWII and the Cold War. I found the museum very interesting, but quite a lot of folks consider it too large, crowded and expensive. I think for folks who want to move as rapidly as you do, it's not a particularly good option.

Bayeux has more charm. It has a good, reasonably-sized museum focused on the invasion as well as the Bayeux tapestry and a worthwhile cathedral. It's also the origin point for most of the small-group tours covering invasion sites. Unless your son is quite an expert on the invasion, I highly recommend at least a one-day tour. The driver/guide will provide a lot of background information and get you efficiently to more sites than you'd ever manage on your own, even if you were willing to rent a car. On a short trip, trying to get to invasion sites by bus will be way too slow.

I found Rouen a lot more attractive than Reims, but the cathedral in Reims is lovely. I don't like champagne, so the opportunity to visit champagne houses meant nothing to me.

Posted by
14503 posts

Hi,

Is your son in the mood for some more reading pertaining to the events of D-Day and the battle for Normandy? Should you have time for only one museum, either that in Caen or Bayeux, then I would definitely suggest Bayeux. Ideally, given his serious interest in the topic, he should see both.

What I like about the Bayeux museum is that examples/excerpts of the literature pertaining to the events in Normandy in 1944 are also displayed and referred to. The Caen museum is much more of a "slow grind" if you plan on spending few hours there taking in everything.

Posted by
1478 posts

We are planning 4 days in the Bayeau/Caen area. We will take 2 days, at least, of guided tours and we will likely go to museums in both cities. Thank you for your recommendations!

Good news! I was able to reserve Reg Jans for a 2 day tour in Belgium. Every day or 2 something else falls into place.

I will try to remember to update this thread as the trip comes together. It will be a good record of how a dream slowly morphs into a reality.

Posted by
1478 posts

OK, so I am back and need advice.

I have to shave one day off of our itinerary.
I have been looking at the train routes between our desired cities and they are not direct and the times are longer than I would like.

So, I am thinking of skipping Rouen to satisfy shortening the trip.
Reims to Bastogne takes too long, so considering a longer train trip from Caen to Lille. I remember reading a lot of great things about Lille here on the forum. Lille to Bastogne is better than Reims to Bastogne.

And...because of my frustration over the train routes and despite the fact that I have sworn to never rent a car outside of the US again...I am thinking of renting a car after leaving Paris and turning it back in somewhere in France before moving to Belgium.

So, please let me hear your thoughts on the above ideas!
TIA

Posted by
2943 posts

Rouen is not a must-see city. I spent a day there and liked the cathedral but other than that I wasn't impressed. I say skip it.

Posted by
457 posts

I am thinking of renting a car after leaving Paris and turning it back in somewhere in France before moving to Belgium

Beware of the possible massive drop-off fee ... might be more cost effective (at the expense of time) to take the train to a city outside of Paris, drive to the places you want to see, return to the city and drop the car, then train back to Paris ... fortunately you've got time to figure out what wil work best for you.

Posted by
27063 posts

Rouen's historic center, rebuilt after wartime devastation, is drop-dead gorgeous. The city also has several good museums. However, no one has unlimited time on a vacation; there's no shame in having to eliminate a destination that just doesn't fit into the time available. That said, I (with no interest in champagne whatsoever) found Rouen a lot more visually appealing than Reims. Reims Cathedral is lovely, but the town itself isn't especially attractive.

Posted by
1478 posts

I am documenting my rambling trip planning.

I will probably buy our plane tickets today. Flights both on Fridays.

I have changed my mind again about Rouen. Currently, thinking this:
Land Saturday am.
Saturday and Sunday Paris.
Monday either train to Caen/Bayeux or train to someplace to rent a car, then drive.
Monday-Thursday sleep in Caen/Bayeux
Friday - either drive or train to Rouen
Saturday- drive to original car rental place and train to Bastogne, or train to Bastogne travel day
Sunday-Tuesday Bastogne
Wednesday travel to Lux city
Wednesday and Thursday Lux city
Friday fly home from Lux airport

Posted by
1478 posts

Seratonin is flowing.
I purchased our tickets a few days ago.
I am now researching renting a car in Rouen.
I watched a youtube video on Honfleur, looks lovely.

Posted by
3240 posts

Vandabrud - I am so glad you were able to book Reg Jans. He sent a colleague on our first day, and he turned out to be very much like Reg himself - we did not feel slighted at all.

Looking forward to your trip report!

In 2019, there were no trains to Bastogne - has that changed?

Posted by
1478 posts

EP- You are correct. There is a train to Marloie Gare and a 40 minute bus ride from there to Bastogne. It is a bit over 7 hours from Rouen. Reg has given me a list of areas he would prefer that we stay other than Bastogne, so we may do that especially if getting there is faster. I haven't looked into that yet. I am not really happy with a 7 hour trip, but it is just the reality of the situation.

Posted by
380 posts

Vandabrud - it sounds like a phenomenal trip! I’ve been to Rouen and Honfleur (not sure you’re going there now?) and been to Bayeux 5 times — I never tire of the history of the region, lovely town and even lovelier people. I’ve done a mixture of tours and renting a car and doing self-drive tours. Please be sure to allow a few minutes for the outdoor memorial to journalists killed during wars, just across from museum in Bayeux.
Eagerly await your trip report as I’ve often considered going to Bastogne.

Posted by
90 posts

I have spent time in Normandy and love the history and scenery, it’s a beautiful place to visit. I have rented a car at the Caen railway station before and it was easy to pick up and drop off before returning to Paris or another destination.

Posted by
2303 posts

You could take the train from Paris to Caen and rent the car at the train station. But I would stay in Bayeux, less than 30 minutes away. If you’re taking 2 full day tours, you really won’t need the car. Instead, you could take the train from Bayeux to Caen, pick up the rental car and continue to Rouen. There are a couple car rental places in Bayeux, but more in Caen. Look at both cities. As long as you return the car in the same country where you rented it, you shouldn’t have huge one way fees. But rental car prices are VERY high right now (as is gas), so don’t be surprised when you check the prices.

Posted by
1478 posts

Thank you for your replies.

Updates:

I have reserved a hotel in Paris that is able to be cancelled for our first 2 nights. Hotel Moderne Saint Germain. Let me know if anyone has stayed here before.

One new requirement for me now is air conditioning. We were in Munich in May this year and it was boiling hot. I know we will be further north, but I don't want to take any chances. Sleeping with the windows open can be noisy and if it is raining I get congested and start to snore. My son gets a bit cranky when he can't get any sleep : ).

I am looking at Hotel Reine Mathilde in Bayeaux. They aren't booking in May yet.

The plan right now is to train to Rouen from Paris and rent a car at Hertz (through Delta) at the train station. Leave out of Rouen without visiting. Stop in Honfleur and Deauville on the way to Bayeaux.

4 nights in Bayeaux. I have asked my son to plan the 3 remaining days here. I want him to decide how many guided tours (up to 2 days) we take and how much to drive around on our own.

Then return the car in Rouen and spend the night.
The next morning train to Leige, Belgium. I think we will stay in a hotel here instead of Bastogne. Stay 3 nights.

Bus to Luxembourg city and stay 2 nights. Home from LUX.

Posted by
1478 posts

Friends and family frequently ask me about my planning process and how things come together. I am using this thread as a way of showing how broad ideas turn into specific plans. Plus, I appreciate the comments I get which may change what I decide to do.

Posted by
14503 posts

Quite right about Munich in May. I've been there a few times the second half of May...true, it was always a broiler. Of course, my Pension had no AC. Sometimes the single room had a fan on the desk, other times, no fan.

Posted by
27063 posts

I would never tell someone not to look for an air-conditioned room. Trying to sleep when it's hot is not fun, and where weather is concerned there are no absolute guarantees. However, the weather in coastal Normandy is quite different from the weather in central Europe. This year the entire month of May had only one day with a high temperature over 77F; it got up to 84 that day, but the weather graph on timeanddate.com shows that was a very brief peak, the rest of the day being much cooler. The hottest days in May 2021 and May 2020 only reached 75F. May 2019 only reached 68F. There were two 79-degree days in May 2018, but it cooled off a lot by bedtime.

My concern in that area would be getting wet and chilled. There was one hot day while I was staying in Bayeux in July 2017. It was the day I took my D-Day tour, so I was outdoors a lot. I remember being shocked when I saw that it had gotten up to 90F. I had had no clue; it was probably overcast that day (which is all too typical), and maybe there was a decent breeze. (Again, that was in July, not May.)

Posted by
1478 posts

The trip is really coming together.

Land Saturday morning, staying at Moderne Saint Germain hotel.
Visit Invalide, Saint Chapele, Visit Eiffel tower area. Eat in the 7th maybe Le Septieme Vin
Sunday: Paris
Visit Latin Quarter and La Marais
No art museums likely for Luke, but he may want to see Winged Victory and some of the medieval art
Monday: Train to Rouen and pick up rental car at Hertz at the train station. Reservation made.
Drive to Honfleur, have lunch
Drive to Deauville
Stop in Caen and visit the WWII museum
Stay at Reine Mathilde in center Bayeux for 4 nights (thanks to the person that mentioned this hotel on the forum)
Tuesday: Personalized tour with Overlord to include Omaha Beach, Longues sur mer, American cemetery, Pointe du Hoc,
Sainte Mere Eglisse and a Willy Jeep tour of the 101st & 82 Airborne sector
Wednesday: On our own, whatever Luke wants to see. I have assigned him this day to fill.
Thursday: Again, for Luke to plan. Will want to see the museum in Bayeux. He has mentioned Mont Saint-Michel.
Friday: Drive to Rouen, drop off car at train station. See Rouen. Eat at La Couronne. Stay at Radisson Blu.
Saturday: Train to Liege, Belgium via Paris and Brussels. Walk along the river, eat Indian food.
Sunday: Full day tour with Reg Jans, Bois Jacques, Bastogne area
Monday: Full day tour with Reg Jans, Northern Arch
Tuesday: Bus to Luxembourg City, maybe stop at Bastogne on the way. Haven't booked a hotel here yet.
Wednesday: See Luxembourg City area by public transportation/taxi
Thursday: Rent a car from the airport and drive around Luxembourg, likely visit some WWII sites.
Friday: Early early, drop off car, fly to AMS, DET, CLE.

The tours are more expensive than I had planned, but the hotels are less. I may work a few extra shifts so I can be more relaxed about costs while we are on the road. Luke has 3 more semesters of school, so we may have only one more trip like this for awhile, so it is worth the money.

I welcome any comments.

Posted by
7270 posts

You might mean me as having mentioned Reine Mathilde. I hope you read that we had a huge modern bathroom, but the bedroom was average "European small". It was hot and we needed a fan in the window, but luckily the room had two or more exposures. I don't think A/C was available when we were there ten years ago. I also noted that it seemed like the kind of place James Bond might have taken a girlfriend when he wanted to be off the radar. That is, lovely and romantic, but no casino or evening dress, and lovely public rooms. Do they now have A/C? I might remind you that European A/C (even in a Hilton) is not at the meat locker level usually assumed by Americanskis.

One reason we chose the hotel was free parking, but I'd make clear that you want it, because they might not have enough for every room. It is right on the beach, with stairs. A day and a half of WW II was enough for us, and we used detailed paperback books, not paid guides. I only add this to help you evaluate my comments, but I do not believe (as a tourist) that the most important site in all of France is the Normandy invasion beaches.

Tiny tidbit: If you find yourselves as far out in Paris as Chateau Vincennes (which is run as military offices AFAIK), we were there for Parc Floral, there is a bare monument circle on a very nearby "traffic triangle". towards Parc Floral. The circle has a clear professional inscription that a monument was put there after WW I to mark the liberation of Paris from the Germans. It goes on to say that the monument was torn down during WW II by ... you know .... . So this time they decided to leave it blank, as a double memento.

Posted by
13906 posts

The Caen Museum was not my favorite museum but you and Luke may enjoy it. It is actually called the Peace Museum although it has some WWII sections. Be sure to go down to the German bunkers under the museum if they are open.

I hate to add anything to your plate because it's full BUT since you'll have a car, maybe on the way back from Bayeux to Rouen you could work in a stop at Pegasus Bridge/Benouville. This is where the glider force landed just around midnight on June 5. There are concrete pylons marking where each glider came to a stop and to look at how close they got in those aircraft is astonishing. There is a museum there but I did not go in. I did have a beer on the terrace of Cafe Gondree. Their gift bags advertise that they were the first house and family liberated. When I was there in 2017, Madame, who was a young child at the time of the liberation, was in the cafe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caf%C3%A9_Gondr%C3%A9e

Anyway, the scene in The Longest Day when the troops led by their piper blasting on the bagpipes arrived to relieve Major John Howard is one of my favorites. (Hold until relieved...)

Posted by
1478 posts

Thanks Tim,

Yes, they have air conditioning now. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the hotel, but I think it was one of the Franks (?) that mentioned the hotel recently. Understood about the weaker A/C.
I know that there is public parking available in Bayeux about 8 minute walk from the hotel. We have backpacks only, so the walk won't be any trouble for us if the hotel parking is full, thanks for the heads up!

We have 3 full days plus an evening in Normandy and I welcome anybody's advice on how to spend the non-tour time.

Posted by
13906 posts

"I will be googling my heart out this weekend!"

Well, that will keep you out of trouble, hahaha!!

If you have free time, there is always cidre tasting! I was with a Road Scholar tour which had arranged an apple product tasting to compare apple juice, cidre, pommeau (kind of like sherry) and Calvados. I can't find it on googlemaps and I don't know if it is open to the public but it was near Sainte-Mere-Eglise.

BTW, I find all the WWII sights very poignant and meaningful. I can't wait to hear about your time with Reg Jans. My Dad was a P-47 pilot and while he did not fly DDay many in his fighter group did and I had the pleasure of meeting them later in life as I took Dad to pilot reunions. Dad did fly the Battle of the Bulge from their airbase in Eastern Belgium so that is also of interest to me. I'm so glad your son is interested in this history.

Posted by
3894 posts

It may be a bit out of the way, but as a WWII history buff myself I really enjoyed the Musée des Blindés in Saumur, this is one of the top 3 best tank museums in the world. They have many different tanks from WWI to Modern and from many different countries too. It was a real treat from me, as they have some pretty rare WWII stuff, like the only functioning German King Tiger tank in the world, in addition to all manner of Axis and Allied armoured vehicles. Unfortunately the Musée des Blindés hardly known outside of real tank fanatics like myself, when I went there I had most of the museum to myself.

If you make it to Saumur, you should also try to stop by the Abbaye Royale de Fontevraud right next door, which houses the tombs of King Richard the Lionheart and Queen Eleanor of Aquitaine, two very historically important people, as you may know :)

Posted by
14503 posts

So very true on the Musée des Blindés in Saumur along with the Bovington Tank Museum in Dorset, England insofar as the extent of their exhibits. If you could plan to make a diversion from Paris to Saumur on the TGV to Tours, then the TER train, that would be well worth the time and effort, along with seeing the massive display of armour, which certainly would piqued his interest.

Posted by
3894 posts

Fred, I think one could also reach Saumur by driving directly south from Normandy into the neighboring Pays de la Loire region, should only be a couple of hours by car from Caen.

Yes I think the Musée des Blindés in Saumur along with the Bovington Tank Museum are the top 2 for me too, usually Kubinka Tank Museum in Moscow holds 3rd, but that's off the menu due to current events.

Posted by
27063 posts

You probably already have plenty of WWII-related sights on your list, but there's also a newish museum in Falaise that focuses on the civilian experience during the war. It also covers Resistance activities. It's fully English-accessible, I believe--which is typical of the WWII museums in Normandy.

Posted by
14503 posts

@ Carlos....Yes, logistically, you're correct. When I think of reaching Saumur, I automatically think of one departing from Paris but the OP is coming from Normandy, oh, well. That museum in Moscow is suppose to rank along side with those in Bovington, which I've visited several times, and Saumur, which I still have yet to see, ie, the top three.

Still, one must NOT forget the tank museum in Prague and that in Finland, near Helsinki, both substantial. After its change in focus, I found the museum in Germany (Munster/Õrtze) to be disappointing. Those displayed (almost exclusively Russian) on the premises in Berlin-Karloshorst, Warsaw, Seelow Heights, and Vienna are only "tank gardens," ( the word used in Vienna to describe them, Panzergärten)

Posted by
1478 posts

Thank you for the recommendations about the Tank museum in Saumur. It looks fantastic. It may be too far for this trip, but it is going on the list. I will definitely offer it to Luke. We are going on our Overlord tour the first full day. We will need a 1/2 day or more in Bayeux itself so we have a day and a half or so to play with. After our full day tour we may want to visit more beach related sites or some of the small villages that we go through. Luke has also mentioned MSM. If he wants to do that I think we will plan for a 4:00 pm arrival, a late dinner and a late drive back to Bayeux.

We will definitely plan on visiting the Pegasus Bridge. I watched The Longest Day recently and will be great to see the bridge in person.

I have booked the hotel in Luxembourg city: Café Francais.

Now I will start watching Band of Brothers and do some other research, but the skeleton is in place.

Thanks for all of your help!

Posted by
14503 posts

Hi,

Good that this trip planning is reaching its final stages. As you referred to above, given the time constraint the line must be drawn somewhere. The museum is Saumur is indeed fantastic if you want to see tanks galore. If that is out of reach time-wise, the battle field sites / museums in Lux City can serve as some sort of compensation in his deep interest in war history regarding this event.

Since you're staying in Lux. City , hopefully you'll be able see one or two of the battlefield museums located there connected with the Bulge (the Ardennes Offensive).

Posted by
515 posts

We had some French friends drive us 3 hours each way to Normandie to see Pont du Hoc (very moving to see), some German gun implacements, the mulberry harbor and museum. But like visiting Germany, many of the famous battles ended up flattening much of the city, so you are not seeing much of what is left. The American graveyard is definitely a moving experience but it does not give any hint of the actual battles that occurred there. You can barely see the beach at all from this carefully manicured yard.

A few other ideas for WWI & WWII :
- One of the most moving locations in all of France is Oradour-sur-Glane near Limoges, where the Waffen SS killed every man, woman and child in this small town. Charles de Gaulle ordered it be left in its original state. Thats about as real as it gets.

  • In and near Colmar there are American Sherman tanks sitting next to roads to this day. During the battle of the bulge further north
    the Germans attempted to distract the US with Operation Nordwind. Quite a few American tanks were destroyed in the "Colmar Pocket". There is one tank right in Colmar parked on corner, and then another on the side of the road between two of the pretty beau villages just outside Colmar

  • Strasbourg is a lovely Alsatian city where the men were forced into the German army. The city square Place d' Kleber was renamed Place du Hitler during the German occupation where the best Xmas market in France now happens.

  • In Lyon, there is a museum to the French resistance. Lyon was a hotbed of resistance activity, and famously the head the of Maqui was captured and tortured to death in Lyon by the "butcher of Lyon" Klaus Barbie. Its also the scene where American spy Virginia Hall (the Gestapo called her "the most dangerous of all Allied spies") was operating before she barely escaped with her life climbing the mountains into Spain during winter with only one leg.

  • WWI Stuff : The giant monument to the dead at Verdun. The Maginot line - haven't been there but I believe you can enter and roam around. Rheims (go to the cathedral and see pictures of the Germans in WWI using that same cathedral as a hospital)

  • Metz (where Patton's men were called the Iron men of Metz after they eventually won a protracted siege of entrenched Germans)

  • Vichy near Clermont - Ferrand where the Vichy (Nazi-friendly puppet) government was held. I believe it's a spa town now.

  • Luxembourg where Patton is buried after his car accident. (There is a Patton museum in the CA desert too which is worth a visit)

  • Near Bastogne there are various other little towns involved in the battle of the bulge - including the location where US POW's were machined gunned in cold blood by Task Force Piper's Panzer group.

For Medieval History
.... why not go see a castle actually being constructed at Guédelon near Auxerre I believe.

The Hundreds year war gave rise to numerous castles and fortified towns in Dordogne (Castelnaud, Beynac, Montpelier, etc, etc.) and there are famous battle sites like Agincourt, Crecy, etc.

There is Orleans near Paris ... where Joan of Arc famously intervened to bring the French to victory.

There is Tours where Charles Martel defeated the Islamic army coming up from Spain and kept northern France from become Islamic.

The whole Cathar area of Carcasonne, Bezier, etc

Ancient History
In the most famous battle of Gallic wars 2000, Ceasar defeated a Gallic force of 250,000 lead by Vercingetorix at Alesia. The modern French have built a history park where the believe the pivotal battle took place.

Ceasars most trusted legion was Legio X Equestrus. One of their most famous battles was over the Germanic tribes near modern Strasbourg. After these men won him many battles, they went into retirement in the area of modern Narbonne.

Posted by
1 posts

Your trip sounds great - have so much fun! I know I'm late to the party, but was glad I found this post because my son (14) is a huge WWII history buff and I was just starting to research Battle of the Bulge sites as I also love Belgium having spent a summer there during college.

When we did a bunch of sites on a road trip pre-Covid in France and Belgium, we learned a very important lesson - double check the hours of your rental car agency! We missed ours closing for the lunch break by about 30 seconds (not realizing it was going to close for lunch) and ended up having a very stressful and expensive rescheduling of my husband's train ride to London while me & the kids left on our own.

Also, if your son is big into WWII history and you haven't done it yet, we highly recommend Churchill's War rooms in London. We went the afternoon we landed and thanks to buying a membership to the museum, we saved ourselves a ton of time in line.

We also did Vimy Ridge for WWI sites near Lille - that was closer for us on our trip (which included staying at Mt St Michel per Rick Steve's suggestion) and that was really cool to see the trenches.

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1478 posts

So many good ideas! Thank you!

Some of them are too far for our current trip, but I am putting them on the list for the future.

Good tip about the car rental agency. The office in Rouen closes at lunch time, so I have that marked on my calender. We need to get moving before then, so it shouldn't be an issue for us. It is hard to keep track of things like that so I try to to put it in a comment on my electronic calendar.

I have started watching Band of Brothers and I have many other movies/documentaries lined up. I can only watch one item per day or I start getting pi**ed off about how terrible war is.

To comment more on my planning process: My trip skeleton is now complete. Flights, hotel rooms, tours that need pre-booked all done. It is too early to make Louvre reservations, so that is still on the list. The trip is 13 days on the ground and the trip is 17 weeks from today. I will now step away from planning for a bit. When it is 13 weeks away, I will allow myself the luxury of researching and planning for possibilites of each day in more depth. One week of planning for each day of the trip. As each day of the trip comes up IRL, I will have some things that are "must dos" like a tour and then I will have a list of possible things to do that I can choose from.

During the planning hiatus I am thinking about my 2024 trip which will be to Japan and my September, 2023 trip to Portland OR and the Redwood Forest.
My SIL just signed up for a RSE Portugal tour this coming June and she has asked me for help planning. She is a librarian so likes a lot of detailed information, so I haven't driven her crazy yet with my detailed emails about carry-on packing, packing lists, how to get money, how to use your phone, take a bag for the bus, what to expect on the bus, planning free time.........

I am in seventh heaven with 4 different trips to think about!!

Posted by
3215 posts

Thank you for sharing, I love trip planning too and will be very interested to hear about your Japan trip as hopefully, that is in our near future! Hoping for 2025. I have most of it planned already.

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515 posts

I have started watching Band of Brothers and I have many other movies/documentaries lined up. I can only watch one item per day >or I start getting pi**ed off about how terrible war is.

Band of Brothers is based true events but fictionalized a bit. If you want the straight deal, there is a great YT channel called Operations Room which recounts WWII battles often telling which guy did what during a battle. It's pretty interesting. There were a lot of heroic actions that just happened quietly.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoynTOzLD28]

There are also a number of channels which show WWII pictures super-imposed with the same views now

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXxy6oIwt8Q]

The ones from Austria and Germany showing Nazi flags in black and white dissolving into modern routine roads are particularly haunting.

Posted by
2124 posts

Sounds like a great trip. On your Luxembourg days, I strongly encourage visiting the WWII museum in Diekirch. It’s a huge, amazing collection of vehicles, weapons, uniforms, etc. left behind after the Battle of the Bulge.

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1478 posts

It is now 80 days or 11 weeks and change until our trip.
I am now spending a few hours on the weekend brushing up details. I look at one day each week.
For example, I have covered our first 2 days in Paris. I have a general outline of what we will do. I have purchased tickets and reserved a time slot for the Louvre. Except for ticketed events or travel, all plans are subject to change.

Day 1 : Land at CDG, RER/metro or taxi to the Hotel Moderne Saint Germain. Will decide on transportation on the day. Maybe a stop at La Maison d'Isabelle for a breakfast pastry. Walk to Il de la Cite and visit Sainte-Chapelle (too early to reserve a time slot). I have been before, but Luke loves a stained glass window, so I want him to see. Have lunch before or after visiting La Conciergerie using the combo ticket with Sainte-Chappelle. The histopad tour looks fun.

Then wander toward the Eiffel tower, staying outdoors the rest of the day. Eat dinner in the 7th, maybe Le Septieme Vin. Watch the tower sparkle then off to bed.

Day 2: Louvre at 9:30. Stay for as short or long as we like. Luke wants to see two of the "bigs" and some medieval artifacts. For the afternoon, wander in the Marais and whatever else comes to mind.

Day 3 planning is this weekend.

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13906 posts

"Day 2: Louvre at 9:30. Stay for as short or long as we like. Luke wants to see two of the "bigs" and some medieval artifacts. For the afternoon, wander in the Marais and whatever else comes to mind."

One of my very favorite Medieval pieces in the Louvre is the Vase d'Alienor. It is the gift Alienor d'Aquitaine gave to her 1st husband Henry VII (although he was not King at the moment of their marriage) in 1137. It is not discussed in the audioguide so it's good to take a look at information ahead of time. According a book I'm currently reading (recommended by another forum member), The Summer Queen, it was also the gift her father gave her mother when they were married.

https://collections.louvre.fr/en/ark:/53355/cl010096614

This is in the Richelieu wing, Level 1 and on the hallway that begins at the Cafe Richelieu/Angelina

https://api-www.louvre.fr/sites/default/files/2022-12/LOUVRE_PlanG-2022-EN-.pdf

If he wants more Medieval, certainly try to work in The Cluny Museum. It's been closed so long for reno so I've not been to the full museum in years, just a few rooms that were open. They have the Lady and the Unicorn Tapestries.

Posted by
1478 posts

Thanks Pam!

I noted the vase from one of your posts on a different thread.
I went to the Cluny in September, but couldn't see everything in one visit. So that is one of the possibilities on our list.

I never wanted to go to Paris because "everybody wants to go to Paris". My husband encouraged me to go and told me that "you don't judge Paris, Paris judges you." He knew I would love it. I told him that there was this woman on the forum that hated Paris the first time she went and now she loves it and goes at the beginning or end of every trip she takes (that is you). I think there might now be two women like that, except I loved it the first time.

Posted by
13906 posts

"I think there might now be two women like that, except I loved it the first time."

Hahaha...so funny! We need to coordinate our visits better next time!