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Drowning Under (over?) Planing

Hello

Its really happening. My husband and I have booked tickets into and out of Paris for ourselves and two children (7 and 5) for this April. We will be in Europe for 4 weeks. We want to do a grand overland adventure. Our kids are excellent car travellers. (Road trips are our thing) But to do so rationally is the trick. Now that this is becoming real I am drowning under options. I have been reading and rereading travel books for years in preparation for this. And now.... I am doubting everything. So here's our itinerary. Help me see reason.

April 17 - land in Paris, mid afternoon (Staying at my husband's family's house)
April 18 - Gentle day spent on the bus/on a river cruise and at a park with the kids
April 19 - 22 sightseeing in Paris
April 23 - Day trip to Provins
April 24 - Day trip to Versailles
April 25 - Normandy (pick up a rental car and We would go to Giverny with our family, they go home, we continue on into Normandy to our hotel)
April 26 - Normandy beaches, after dinner head to Tours for over night stop
April 27 - Tours to Dordogne (sarlat or Beynac)
April 28 - Dordogne
April 29 - Dordogne
April 30 - Dordogne to Barcelona via Narbonne (drop car off train to Barcelona)
May 1 - Barcelona
May 2 - Mid day Flight to Tangier private tour, head straight to Asilha
May 3 - Northern Morocco (Chefchaouen?)
May 4 - Tetouan (?)
May 5 - From Tetouan (?) Head to Seville
May 6 - Seville
May 7 - Seville
May 8 - Seville (day trip to Jerez?)
May 9 - Seville (day trip to hill town?, keep going to Granada?)
May 10 - Granada
May 11 - Granada > Malaga flight to Paris
May 12 - Paris > Reykjavik land early afternoon
May 13 - Reykjavik
May 14 - Reykjavik > Home in evening
May 15 - Home

Should we drop Morocco? Or should we drop southern Spain, or does this balance both?
Reykjavik is a part of our plane trip home. Its built in already. The rest of it is up for debate, and re-debate, and re-re-re-debate.

Thank you all

Posted by
7175 posts

You allocate just one day to Barcelona, and that is May 1, a big public holiday.
To me that doesn't make sense, and with 3 days for Morocco, I am wondering why??

For weather too, it makes more sense to do Spain first and then France as it rolls into May.

Posted by
20 posts

Hello!

Thanks for the reply.
Barcelona because it seems to be the cheapest departure point to Morocco. Also although Barcelona has a lot to hold my husband and I's interest I wasn't sure it would do the same for the kids.
France has to be first to be there for my nieces spring vacation.

Posted by
7175 posts

I don't know what gives you the idea that Barcelona holds little interest for kids.
Or for that matter why Morocco would be of more interest to them.
The buildings of Gaudi all appear to have come from a child's fantasy.
Perhaps drop your car in Toulouse and fly to southern Spain.

Posted by
731 posts

What a fun family trip you are planning! Personally, I would drop Morocco and spend your time in Spain for the second two weeks. Barcelona, Seville, and Granada sound great. Maybe add in Toledo. You could even add a day or two in Normandy earlier in the trip since you're currently only there for one night.

Posted by
7354 posts

If your planning is anything like ours, you will continue to refine, alter, and shift your plans. You have so many options, and limited time (you can't do everything in a month), so pick great places and be happy with the time you all have.

We had a car and 2 days, and there was a lot of Normandy D-Day beach sights we couldn't visit. With one day, you will need to make quick, and/or few stops. You may be planning on stopping at the Canadian War & cultural centre at Juno Beach - we enjoyed the "Contributions to the World by Canada and Canadians" displays. For the kids, perhaps the most interesting location, which could give them a perspective on the immensity of the operation, might be Point du Hoc, about 40 km from Juno. You and they can go into concrete German bunkers looking out to sea from the cliffs, and the ground is still misshapen and distorted from the shelling by the Allied ships before the landings. Troops had to scale the cliffs by rope and grappling hooks.

Beynac was the perfect Dordogne base for us on 2 separate trips. We visited Sarlat one day, and had easy access to prehistoric caves, river canoeing and other sights and activities in the region.

One extra day (maybe at the expense of Sevilla) for Granada would be worthwhile.

We had a week in Iceland this past April. You'll be arriving at home the day many of the "summer" activities open up after being closed or limited over the winter. You'll be plenty busy on your 2 days (perhaps Golden Circle tours, whale watching, etc.), but there seem to be advantages to being there after May 15 - including puffins arriving, and more things open.

Posted by
3551 posts

Consider using a car after u leave Paris and drop off after Dordogne at a train hub in s france. Use the train thru out spain and cancel morroco. We have driven alot in spain and france and have found a car train combo is much better. But if u are camping then my rec would of course not work out.
Include Guedelon a reconstruction of a medieval castle and village still in prog but open to public just se of Paris.

Posted by
11507 posts

Unless you plan on skipping the palace.. I seriously suggest you leave kiddies at family home while you do Versailles.

The crowds inside the palace are most unpleasant for everyone.. but children really suffer in there. They get a fine view of peoples backs, elbows and bottoms. You would think people would be nice and let the little ones see stuff.. but the crowds.. often comprising of large tour groups that will axe murder anyone that they think is trying to "separate them from their herd" do not even notice short little kids. I have taken my 11 yr old there and my 13 ( two separate visits) and it was very hard on my 11 yr old. however.. she did enjoy visiting Marie Antionettes hamlet a lot.. and that's never a crowd scene. Do remember that doing Versailles on a rainy day will greatly affect your enjoyment.. skip it if weather sucks.
Also.. doing the two daytrips in a row ( Provins and Versailles) is a bit much.. but then you do know your kids better then anyone else.
Provins is lots of fun..did you check the schedule to see what things were going on that week there.. since its not high season I would check to see if shows etc go only on certain days. The jousting etc is likely only weekends till high season.

Posted by
32202 posts

diversions,

To begin with, it would help to know if you've previously travelled in Europe? I have a few thoughts to add to the others....

  • Apr. 18-22 - you'll have lots of time for touring Paris, so should be able to see the main sights. You might want to pack along a copy of the RS France guidebook, as that has a lot of good information on things like which days museums are closed, methods to bypass the queues, etc.
  • Apr. 23 - I assume you mean Provence? Is there a particular place there that you're interested in seeing?
  • Apr. 25-26 - the time allotted for Normandy seems a bit short? In addition to visiting the beaches, you may want to visit Mont St. Michel or other sights in the area. For visiting the D-Day historic sights, I'd highly recommend one of the excellent local tours, as you'll learn far more than by just going on your own (although that may not work as well with a 5 and 7 y.o.).
  • May 2 - Before visiting Morocco, you may want to have a look at the official warnings on the Canadian government website. With the current global situation, visiting there may not be advisable. With Morocco there's also the issue of vaccinations and possibly food borne illnesses, which the children may not be able to tolerate as well. The website in the link has all the details. If you decide to continue with Barcelona, you could either expand your other locations in Spain or add another country (perhaps mainland Italy or Sicily, or Switzerland?).
Posted by
15582 posts

I'm with those who say "skip Morocco" this time. Spend 2-3 days in Barcelona, fly to Malaga, rent a car to tour Andalusia and fly to Paris from Malaga or Seville. Plan to be in Jerez on one of the few days there's a horse show.

Posted by
4517 posts

Not sure anyone has pointed out how expensive it can be to drop a car in another country. I looked at taking a car from Italy to Germany for this summer and it was a special 1100 euro charge (on top of the other fees) to do that.

Also: Morocco looks nice in photos but can be a wildly aggressive and in-your-face place. Will you be paying for a guide to keep the touts away, or are you going green there? Be ready for one of the biggest challenges of your tourist life.

Posted by
20 posts

Hello Everyone!!

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. This stage of planning is a lot harder then I thought it would be.

@djp_syd Maybe I should have been less cut and dried. I am assuming Barcelona would be a similar urban experience we would have in Paris, and Morocco a huge departure from that.

@Dawn That's exactly the discussion my husband and I are having. Originally I was the one all gun ho for Morocco. He was applying the breaks pretty hard. Then he went online and came back convinced we had to go. I think Morocco is exciting enough we could end up using that as the focal point for an entire trip next year if we wanted. But saying that there's a voice in my head that says "Do it. You know you wanna..." Which, is never a good sign when dragging your kids all over the continent. lol

@Cyn you make it sound so easy, and I now know where my son gets his in ability to choose anything comes from!! We told the kids we would be stopping in Iceland on our way home the other day and my son says "Puffins! And Whales! And geysers!" I had forgotten that all last year they did a nursery school project on Iceland, and even had a dress like a viking day. lol Anyway he told us all about the waterfalls etc. So essentially our 5 year old is planning the Iceland leg of our adventure.

@pat that information about Versailles was very very welcome. My husband is wishy washy on seeing it at all. I desperately want to see the place due to its history and the place where the treaty was signed. But you are right. Kids wont care a whit and they are at perfect height for getting smashed by elbows etc. I know my nieces (the ones who live there and have been dragged there by other visiting family) hate the place. It will definitely be under revision. As for the two day trips in a row, I should have edited that. The day trips could float anywhere in there during our time in Paris, It would depend on my Brother in laws work schedule and the interest of the kids. I should have put "Paris type things" instead of Paris and Day trips. lol

@JS We were considering dropping the car we rent in paris in NArbonne they catch the train to Barcelona. Then rent a car again once we are in southern Spain as needed. Also thanks for reminding me of Guedelon. That would be fantastic!

@Ken, I have travelled in the UK. This will be the kids first european voyage. We have done significantly long trips (flights and car and trains etc etc etc) in North America. They are often better travellers then we are to be honest. As long as they are fed, my son has a few dinos and my daughter her sketch pad and pen they are good to go.
And no, I meant the medieval city of Provins. :) It has what looks to be a good balance between kid friendly dinner theater and some interesting sights for the adults. Its a long day trip but we would be heading there for our lunch and a show, strolling about a bit then heading back on train I think. As far as danger in Morocco. We would keep up to date on the adversaries. As long as the issues in Tunisia don't spread, Paris and Belgium right now are looking more unsafe then Morocco.

@Chani there is no way in heck I am missing the Equestrian school in Jerez! It has been on my bucket list for as long as I remember. (I rode horses and did some dressage as a child, teenager and young adult.)

@Tom_MN I think we would only be doing it if accompanied by a private tour guide and driver. We would have precious little time (one reason I am thinking we should drop it and do it next year) to futz about getting our bearings and dealing with touts. I want to give myself and my kids some sort of culture shock (I am not confidant France or Spain will do it) but not totally put them off adventuring forever. We obviously have to do some serious thinking about it. As for the car drop off, we would be dropping the french car off in France (in Narbonne?) and then renting a spanish one in southern Spain as we need.

Posted by
7175 posts
Posted by
32202 posts

diversions,

"As long as the issues in Tunisia don't spread, Paris and Belgium right now are looking more unsafe then Morocco."

Unfortunately the same issues that affect Tunisia also exist in Morocco to some extent, which is reflected in the warnings on the government websites. There was another incident in Tunisia today, although this one wasn't directed at tourists. A lot can change between now and next April, but I don't expect the situation in Morocco will change much between now and then. Everything will likely have settled down to some extent in Paris and Belgium.

One other point to consider is that some medical insurance policies won't cover travel to areas that are prohibited by government warnings (I believe that's the case with my policy). I found this excerpt online.....

"Just before I departed for Tel Aviv, the ever-tenuous relationship between Israel and Palestine further deteriorated. I got worried: would my travel medical insurance cover me in a conflict zone?
As it turns out, most policies don't cover travel to unsafe areas, conflict zones, or "excluded areas." My insurance provider would not cover me if I travelled to a region or nation with a "do not travel" advisory issued by the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Canada.
Now here's the rub: since no nation-wide "do not travel" advisory was issued for Israel at the time, I was in the clear. Not only that, my provider confirmed that if circumstances changed and the government issued a "do not travel" advisory during my trip, I would be covered."

Thanks for the clarification on Provins.

Posted by
7354 posts

Back to Iceland for a moment- your 5 year old must be a Norseman! Whale sightings are hit or miss, but if you do spot a whale, it's magical. If you do the Golden Circle, however (in a rental car on your own, or with a tour company by minivan or bus), geysers are guaranteed, and so are some spectacular waterfalls. The Icelandic tourism operators have everything well-synchronized for whatever activities you may choose.

Be sure to have some bitafiskur (cod jerky -- better than it may sound). It's a really healthy snack, but most of the locals slather it with butter!

Posted by
20 posts

@Cyr
The funny thing is that its our eldest who dreams of Vikings. She is OBSESSED with How To Train Your Dragon, and dressed up as a dragon last year for Halloween and a Viking the year before. I am only slightly worried she will be stung when she realizes that even in Iceland, there are no dragons in real life. My son has taken to the Puffin thing full throttle. I foresee many, many puffin science books in our future. That combined with a tour of the prehistoric caves in Dordogne, his little science geek heart may explode with joy on this trip.

Posted by
12 posts

Good luck with planning. I am with you on how overwhelming it is - we are doing 90 days in Spain and Portugal alone this Spring/Summer. Our 9 year old grandson will be joining us for 2 weeks and we chose Barcelona for 10 days (twice the time anywhere else) because it seems like there is SO much that I feel will be of interest, and beaches too...

Posted by
3696 posts

I am sure now by reading this you can tell that everyone has their own travel preferences and assumes they know your children as well:) Having traveled to all the places you are going, and most of them numerous times I can tell you that one that stands out as being unique is Morocco, and most especially Chefchaouen. It was unlike any place I had been except maybe the markets in Guatemala as far as uniqueness and a totally different way of life. There are tons of places that deserve more time.... most of us do not have that luxury. I was in Barclona for 3 days and while I enjoyed it, I have no need to go back to another large city. I much preferred the south of Spain. If I were taking my grandkids and had the choice between more days in Barcelona or Morocco, it would be Morocco. Asilah was also lovely. It was a relaxing place to wander around and sit at an outdoor cafe or two amid the interesting shopping. But, I tend to search out unusual experiences and don't have to see every historical site or museum available.

If you really want to go to Versailles why not leave your husband with the kids for a morning to explore Paris and you hop on the early train and visit Versailles by yourself. You will enjoy it far more knowing you are not dragging people along who do not share your desire to see it. I am glad I went... it was in December so I did not have crowds to deal with, but I have no need to go back.

Posted by
7354 posts

Hi Diversions365 - maybe your daughter would want a pet lizard/miniature "dragon"?!?

If your son is truly puffin obsessed, in addition to maybe visiting the island of Heimaey in the Westmann islands while you're in Iceland, he should put Skellig Michael, an island off the southwest coast of Ireland in his travel wish list. We didn't go to Heimaey on our visit in early April, as the puffins don't arrive there until later in the spring, but walking up the long, steep steps that climb to the top of Skellig Michael (after an epic, one-hour boat ride to get there) in late June a few years ago, there were puffins everywhere, flying, purring like miniature buzzsaws, and ducking in and out of their burrows just inches away from all of us human visitors. It was a Puffin Paradise!