Driving versus Train for family of 4

First, the options are not just car vs. Eurail pass. You can also buy individual "point to point" tickets in advance online; these will be non-refundable and non-exchangeable, but in exchange for these restrictions, the tickets are MUCH cheaper. And for Cinque Terre to Barcelona, you can consider flying from Pisa Airport if you won't have a car (it's a long train ride).

Second, yes, if you have a Eurail pass, that only covers the "base" fare. You have to buy any seat reservations on top. For domestic trains in the Netherlands, Germany, and Switzerland, reservations are almost always optional (some exceptions exist). But for the faster trains in Italy, France, and Spain, as well as most international trains, reservations are mandatory. Furthermore, France severely restricts the number of pass-holder reservations. Particularly for a family of 4, you would need to book the France train reservations at the time you buy the pass; if you're doing that, you might as well buy discount advance tickets. When you buy a point-to-point ticket on a high speed train (whether advance or last minute, discount or full fare), the reservation fees are automatically included.

For a very good discussion of these issues, see The Man In Seat 61's post, Should You Buy A Railpass?, here: http://tinyurl.com/bkw4u6c

To find out where to look for the advance tickets on each route to see the prices, go here: http://tinyurl.com/bo8x6o6. Note that Rick's maps of train routes and costs do not reflect the advance purchase, non-refundable prices, so do not rely on them; go directly to the source, which is usually the website for the country where the train originates (again, the link in this paragraph will give you specifics). Also when looking, be sure to put in the number and ages of all travelers; there's often a discount for two or more traveling together, and in some countries your children may qualify for lower fares, depending on their ages.

To find flights within Europe, use Skyscanner: http://www.skyscanner.com/

Other factors to consider...Traveling in Southern Germany is dirt cheap for a family with the Bavarian Ticket. Switzerland has one of the best transportation systems in the world. With all of the super high alpine peaks which are inaccessible by cars makes cars obsolete. If your boys are < 16 years old they travel 100% free all over Switzerland.

Don't forget that flying between destinations is also very possible with Europe's many discount airlines.

Hello Lynn. I think you and your family will have a great trip at Europe ! I think rail passes would not be helpful for this trip (because you said you will travel in a rented car from Germany to Switzerland). I suggest : ride in railroad trains from Zurich (or Lucerne) to a Cinque Terre village. Express trains go from Milan in Italy (Central station) to Monterosso in the Cinque Terre, or to La Spezia (it is south of the Cinque Terre. Ride in a train, 12 minutes, from La Spezia to the Cinque Terre). Traveling from Italy to Spain, fly from the airport of Pisa to the airport of Barcelona. I would ride in the high speed train from Barcelona to Paris (6 hours, 30 minutes).

I'd skip the rentals and get a Eurail pass (at www.eurail.com ). The only extra you'd pay is if you chose to make a reservation (in most cases you don't need to) or choose to take a train that requires them. Otherwise, your pass will take you everywhere- including Zurich. With cars, you have to buy insurance (or risk paying for a stolen or damaged car), pay expensive gasoline, have parking nightmares, and face cities where you either pay to drive into town or are not allowed to. With the trains, there are no such problems. Public transport all over Europe is comfortable and excellent. We have lived in Paris, Amsterdam, Prague, Berlin, Vienna, Salzburg, Rome, and Florence (as well as London and Beijing but that is a whole different story) and take the trains everywhere (Eurail is not for the UK) with no trouble at all. To plan any reservations you'll need, visit www.eurail.com/plan-your-trip for step by step details. It's that easy. Let them do the work for you. This is how we travel and we spend much of the year in Europe and Asia. Most reservations will only cost between 1.50 to 9 euros though some special trains (in Switzerland mainly) are more. You can do all of your planning, buy your passes and make reservations right at Eurail's plan your trip link. You can make reservations for any of the trains you need and the Eurail pass pays for almost all of it except the reservation fees. You'll find discounts for your boys too.

Harold and Ray's advice is spot on. There have been a number of posts regarding the difficulty of getting a Eurailpass reservation for French trains.

You're going to:

Amsterdam and several cities in Germany
Zurich for 2 nights
Cinque Terre for 5 nights
Barcelona for 5 nights
Paris for 5 nights before flying out of Amsterdam.
1. You really should consider buying flights that are open jaw--into one city and out of another. Getting back to Amsterdam is going to be very expensive for 4 people and time inefficient.
2. Do you really need to go to Zurich--a place they roll the sidewalks up at dark? It's not even in the mountains. The time could be better spent in the mountains.
3. Do you need to stay in Cinque Terre 5 nights? Don't you want to see the great cities of Northern Italy--like Florence and Venice?
4. Have you looked at Mapquest to see how far it is from Amsterdam to Cinque Terre? Well over 800 miles. It's 600 miles from C/T to Barcelona, and it's best done by budget air carrier.
5. And since you're going through Amsterdam, are you going to be visiting this great city?

My point is that your itinerary just doesn't flow well, and your time may be better served in great European cities. Distances in Europe can be deceiving, and it's often difficult to get from some places to others when you have physical barriers like mountains blocking the way.

And to those that like traveling by train: Not every European country has modern, clean trains with air conditioning. We went from Budapest to Bratislava and from Vienna to Prague last year. The trains were hot and they were nasty. The countryside was flat and somewhat boring. I'd hate to think how miserable some trains and train routes could be on a hot Summer day. For my buck, I'd rather fly from place to place if it takes over 3 hrs. on the train.

David has a point about the length of legs. If any leg is more than four hours, flying may be the best option.

We did a trip, with three kids in tow, that began in Amsterdam and ended in Rome. We ran numbers and found a lease was the best deal for us. Rentals are cheapest for economy cars but the price goes up quickly for larger vehicles. The kids were 15/16, 12 and 7/8 (we had two birthdays on the trip). For us a seven passenger car worked just right. We each had only one carry on. The seven passenger allowed everyone a comfortable seat and plenty of room for our limited baggage. If we had been bigger people, or carried more luggage, we would have needed something bigger.

I think rail is about the same price as renting a car for two people. The train gets you more comfort (and you don't have to drive) but loses on flexibility, stopping along the way, starting and stopping when you want, and controlling your own route. When you add the third person, renting starts to be a better deal and becomes a much better deal as the group gets larger - just make sure you get something with room for the bags.

I personally prefer a standard transmission diesel. Miles per gallon is amazing and the standard transmission gives you better performance from the smaller European engines.

Couple of things to think about regarding car rental.
Fuel: between $6 and $7 equivalent per gallon. Diesel is a bit cheaper and they get better mileage. That is current prices in Germany. Other countries will differ (probably more).
Tolls and vignettes: France and Italy have toll roads and you need to buy a vignette in Switzerland.
Parking: No free parking in most urban areas, and it can be expensive.
ZTLs in Italy: You'll get tickets if you drive into the centers of most Italian historic cities.
Speed cameras: They are all over the place. You'll won't know about it until your credit card company dings you months later. and that is just their fee for informing on you. Then after a few months, the actual speeding ticket arrives.
If you do fly open jaw, there are big international drop charges. That is because they can't rent a car in France with Dutch license plates, so it has to be transported back to Holland (you pay to have that to be done).
Car is pretty useless in big cities, especially Amsterdam, Barcelona, and Paris. Not very useful in the Cinque Terra.
You should rent a car to go places that are not convenient by train. Rural France, Germany, Tuscany come to mind.

I would also reiterate the practicality flying at least from Pisa to Barcelona. Barcelona to Paris or Amsterdam can also be cheaper to fly. Amsterdam-Germany and Zurich-Cinque Terre might then be your only train rides. Good news: you get to try every method except bus.

Lynn, you wrote "We've rented a car for Germany to Zurich". Have you got a quote for this, including the surcharge for one-way international hire? This can be very expensive.
I agree with the previous posters, if you plan 2+ nights in Switzerland, stay somewhere in the Alps, not Zürich.

I would re-order Amsterdam > Paris > Germany. Then Switzerland, Italy. Fly to Barcelona and fly home from there.

To get a real costing of train versus car you need to list out your itinerary in more detail. It is 90% certain that individual advance-purchase cut price rail tickets will be cheaper than passes.

I have a few more negatives about car rental to add.

1. You will need a car big enough to be able to stow all your belongings out of sight. It's too much of an invitation to leave things visible in a parked car.

2. A large car can be really difficult to manage in European towns that were built when the biggest vehicle was a cart. You are likely to encounter narrow streets, sharp corners, tiny parking places, even in parking lots which are planned for the generally much smaller cars that Europeans drive.

3. There's traffic on the highways and in the cities. High speed trains travel at 150-200 mph. You may average less than 50 on the highways and speeding is often monitored electronically.

4. On a train, everyone can stretch his legs, walk around, use the toilet, and be comfortable.

5. I've been led to believe that there are discounts for families on trains. I travel solo so I've never checked it out.

I still just like the freedom of going. Where I want to go, when I want to go. Nothing like having a car and if you have a good map, it's not hard to get around. We sometimes train when we have a long trip or to get out of the big City like Paris or London. I like to find the small corners and it's harder to get there by train. So one tells me about a restaurant in a town 15 K away and I'm having dinner there in a half hour. I think of all the great picnics I have enjoyed in remote spots a train can't go to.

I have drove vans, suvs, and station wagons on some of the smallest roads you can imagine. It works! I have never had any theft problems with a car, but h. Have seen lots of pick pocketing on trains.

Have seen lots of pick pocketing on trains.

Actually on the trains? Where?

Picnics in remote spots...wonder if those were planned or just a result of being so lost "we may as well just pull over and have a picnic"??? Cars are a pain in the but and there is no "freedom" by having a car. On the contrary you're saddled with that car wherever you go. Even day trips that you might take with some other form of transport - that rental car is just sitting there tick-tocking away the useless rental $$$ as the hours pass. Ahh, a mere "scratch" you say? No such thing! A scratch can set you back hundreds of dollars and hours of paperwork and international phone call and email and credit card misery. Major wreck - well you're either screwed out major $$$ or you paid major $$$ for zero deductible insurance. I know some people like to drive, but I think some people like to drive simply because they're afraid to learn how to use the train or metro system. I used to be intimidated, too, until I saw the little kids standing on the train platforms waiting to catch the train to school. Then the realization hit me, if a 6 year old can do surely I can too!

I think Tim hit the nail on the head.

Tim... not to be contrary, but maybe some people take the train because they are afraid to drive:) Seriously, it is not a contest... I can use the train but I choose a car most of the time because of the 'freedom'. Can't we agree there are benefits to both modes of travel? I have found some of the most beautiful places on my trips without a plan or a train schedule, and sometimes those picnics when I am lost are heaven!

Joe... you were probably that other driver I saw having a lovely roadside picnic:)

If I were going directly from one city to another, a train would be the best choice. Trains take you directly from city center to city center, bypassing traffic. City driving includes rush hours and downtown traffic no different than the US. Once you get into a city, a car is a hassle - so it's best parked for the duration (at roughly 30 euro per day, depending on the city).

I find myself renting cars more often because my itineraries now include lots of intermediate stops that are either impractical, difficult or impossible using trains (or buses). Using my Costco Amex card for CDW insurance is a real money saver. Although it's not available everywhere (or for those from every state), a one time $29 charge covered me for my entire rental in Spain (around 20 days of driving). I hope they still offer it when I rent my next car. I've never had a scratch but I want to be covered if I do.

"some people take the train because they are afraid to drive"

Come on, Terry Kafthyrn, you don't have a clue. I road raced for five years, held an SCCA National racing license and an FIA international racing license. I'm not afraid to drive. It's just that anytime I go anywhere in the the US, I have to drive. It's a vacation for me to go to Europe and be able to go places without driving. I chose to use public transportation in Germany because it is comprehensive, cost effective, and relaxing.

IMO, people who drive in Germany so they can drive on the Autobahn without speed limits are just living a Walter Mitty fantasy. Been there, done that. Frankly, it's boring.

The time to exercise your freedom is in the planing phase. It's far easier to find those beautiful places on the Internet than when driving randomly, hoping something special will just happen to "pop up".

"some people take the train because they are afraid to drive"

Come on, Terry Kafthyrn, you don't have a clue. I road raced for five years, held an SCCA National racing license and an FIA international racing license. I'm not afraid to drive. It's just that anytime I go anywhere in the the US, I have to drive. It's a vacation for me to go to Europe and be able to go places without driving. The public transportation in Germany is comprehensive and cost effective.

IMO, people who drive in Germany so they can drive on the Autobahn without speed limits are just living a Walter Mitty fantasy. Been there, done that. It's boring.

If I ever find there is somewhere I want to get to, and I can't get there with public transportation, i would rent a car, but, in 15 years, it's never happened.

This is just my impression from a few years on the forum. Americans who have not been to Europe much - or at all - don't know what the trains are like or what the roads are like or what driving in the cities is like. America is designed for cars - great roads, easy driving in most cities, ample free or cheap parking most of the time - and the trains are, well, Amtrak. . . uncomfortable, unreliable, and slower than molasses.

When I lived on the West Coast, I did well over 100,000 miles in 8 years of auto trips and only booked ahead in the big national parks (Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Yellowstone). Over 90% of the time, I just looked for a room wherever I ended up that day. Only once did I have to drive another 5 miles to the next town for a vacancy. I loved the freedom of winging it. I saw each trip as a journey of exploration and knew there would be many. Going to Europe is a different kettle of fish. It's a rare and expensive trip for most people and going without a plan can mean losing lots of time and missing out on a lot.

I know that driving on the interstate in Utah is fast but I also know that driving on the autobahn often means low speeds and lots of traffic. And I know the difference between driving in Phoenix and driving in Rome.

Seasoned European travelers make intelligent choices. They know what's feasible. Maybe the OP does too, but often these questions are posed by people who are simply not aware of the differences between the old and new worlds.

Interesting thread with very strong opinions on either side. Getting back to the original post, I see 10 nights in 2 large cities. I do not see a need to pay for a car in these 2 locations. Amsterdam to nameless German cities, Zurich, Cinque Terre, to Barcelona. Perhaps another look at your itinerary may be in order. You also do not say when you are going. I prefer to drive since I usually do not have an itinerary, just a rough idea of where I want to go or what I want to see. I also enjoy driving. However, I do not see the sense in parking a car for over 10 nights in the large cities. Use the tools that are available such as train websites to check prices. Via Michelin is a good resource for driving times and fuel costs. Not having used the low cost airlines in Europe, I can not comment. Just be aware of the hidden added costs when using such. As you may have seen, this forum is full of people with different travel experiences which makes this a great resource. Someday, I may contact Lee to get his tips on traveling by train in Germany and the rest of Europe. Only you can decide what is comfortable and doable by your family members.
Good luck!