Doing our own thing vs. all-inclusive trip?

It depends I suppose what your priorities are!! I of course recommend planning your own trip - yes, it takes time to research but that way you really learn about the areas you are planning to visit and so you are able to decide what you really want to see, etc. With a pre planned trip, you don't have that choice. Now, if you don't have a lot of time to devote to planning, then a pre planned trip could be a good choice. However, since you are planning on going a year from now, that gives you a lot of time to plan!!!. As for lodging, there is a very wide range of lodging available in all price ranges - a packaged deal is not necessarily the best bargain as far as lodging is concerned.
This forum and Trip Advisor are great resources to find recommendations on lodging, transportation, itineraries, etc.
I would recommend picking up a Rick's guidebooks on these countries and have a look through them to get an idea of what you really want to see and then look at how the packages compare with what you want to see. At that point, you can decide whether the trade offs are worth it or not!!

First, cut at least one country out, IMHO. It's too much for a 2-week trip.

Second, go independent. I suggest renting a car. For 2 people it's about the same cost as train travel, at least for significant distances. The freedom of car travel is unsurpassed.

Third, in rural France and Germany and Italy to some degree, very cheap hotel rooms can easily be found. Stay in small villages without train stations, travel to large ones you want to visit on day trips. Or, park the car and stay in the city for a night or two.

If you're even thinking of doing your own thing, it's probably what you want to do. I did it on our first trip, and it's not as difficult as you might think. Don't worry too much about hotel reservations except the first and last nights.

Have a great trip!

Hi Emily,
After living in Europe for five years and now traveling there every chance I get, I say go on your own. I did a tour with a company and I felt like we were on a tight rope with no room to do anything we really wanted to do. You guys are still young and I can't help but think you would regret not going on your own.

You don't have to go any further than this great web site to do your research. There has been many times all I did was ask a question and got a ton of great info from the good people right here.

The one thing about your trip I question is, do you really want to do three countries in two weeks? That's a lot of time traveling from point A to point B. Something to think about.

Have fun
All the best,Monte

The first thing I would suggest, as a former tour director, is to try to find a tour of people in your age group. Most tours skew older.

Trafalgar Breakaway Tours is for ages 21-38. Unfortunately, they are not running these tours in 2010 and no info on whether they will start again in 2011.

Here's their website with more information:

Trafalgar Breakaway

The other company I'd suggest is Contiki. They skew young--early to mid 20's--and can get to be a little wild.

Contiki Tours

Both are budget tour companies so you should be able to find a tour within your budget.

(I have never worked for either company but I do have friends who have.)

That being said, and as it has been mentioned, you have lots of time to plan your trip if you want to try it on your own. If you do, I suggest you start by reading Rick Steves' "Europe Through the Back Door." It will teach you just about everything you need to know. The rest you can learn on this board.

A couple of points. First, hostels aren't for just for rabbits anymore--er, I mean kids. You likely will do just fine looking for budget accommodation, if you are patient and do your research.

Secondly, I'll have to agree with Steve. Rick's tours are excellent and a good way to 'springboard' into European travel. I've taken 2 city tours, and the tour guide on the first one told us that his job was to teach us how to travel so that we'd come back and do it on our own.

Rick's tours have a number of bonuses, one of which is they build in quite a bit of independent free time. And if you want more, you can always cut away from the tour (assuming the bus isn't leaving town!). I find makes for a nice mixture of freedom and being taken care of. I found the demographic does skew older, but I imagine it depends on the time of year and the tour. However, the folks tend to be young at heart, and at 25, I had a great time with my fellow tour members.

One possibility is to book a shorter tour, then add some days of independent travel at the end, when you have your "sea legs" under you.

I think it really boils down to how comfortable you are--both traveling independently & doing all your own research and planning. I do agree with another poster who said 3 countries in 12 days (you lose one on each end, coming and going), is too much.

Emily,, caution about Contiki,, my nephew took a two week trip with them last summer. Has a blast, BUT it was a drunkfest,, and there is a lot of nickel and diming extras that belied the cheap ( intial) price for the tour.

Honestly, you have lots of time, I think you could plan a great trip on your own. And you are not too old for hostels,, but if you are smart you can often find hotels that are almost as cheap and have more privacy anyways.

Look for an open jaw airfare. Fly into one place and out of another , this saves time and money in long run as you don't end up having to backtrack.

Maybe fly into Paris, stay 4-5 days, fly to Rome( look at Vueling I used them for a one way and paid a good price)spend 4-5 days there, from there you could train it up to Germany and fly out of there, but personally I would be tempted to skip one country and just do two countries in a two week trip. The more you travel the higher your expenses, so there is that to consider.

The big advantage for a first time traveler with an all inclusive trip is that you get an education, a little experience, and someone is holding your hand. A lot of the anxiety is eliminated or greatly controlled. It does provide a relaxed learning experience. Some will argue, of course, you can do it cheaper if you do it on your own and you greater flexibility. That is true but it also comes at a price. You have do all the work and take all the responsibility. Our first trip was a ten day cruise with a couple days extension. Worked very well for as it solve a lot of housing and transportation problems while let us focus on learning how to get around the cities. A cruise has the advantage that you can do part on your own and part with guides. There is nothing wrong about during a tour for your first trip.

I agree with Frank. I was nervous about going to Europe the first time (Over 10 years ago) and ended up taking a Trafalgar Tour and adding a couple of days at the end in Rome. It was great because it helped me get my sea legs. Once I realized how easy it was taking trains and getting around, I decided to go on my own a couple of years later. The good thing about the tour I had taken was that it covered the major cities I was interested in, hotels and travel between each city, and the most important thing - it provided a really good city tour the first day in each city and then we were on our own. I chose not to go on all the additional tours and trips they kept selling (this is how they make their money as the base price barely covers their cost). It really worked out well for me. In fact, I think Rick mentions this in his "Through the Back Door" book. Use the tour companies to get you where you want to go. Do some homework and you may find that this could work for you as well.

RS Tours are excellent, but there is one small problem with them--they're way out of your price range.

As an example, the RS 14 day tour, which covers the areas you want to visit, will cost you $8000 plus airfare for the two of you....a few thousand dollars over your stated budget.

It depends upon how adventurous you are. My wife and I generally follow Rick Steves guide books, so we aren't really going "on our own." Not to sing the company song, but his books are great and we've never been disappointed with the hotels and restaurants. I'd pick up his "Europe through the Back Door" for travel philosophy and tips and "Best of Europe" for destinations and itineraries and figure out what you really want to see.

We don't speak any other languages (not that I'm proud of that) and have made our way fine. I picked up "Speedy" language guides and they have been a big help at times.

We haven't tried hostels, so I can't speak the that alternative.

The few tours we've done have been day tours and the lack of freedom and the time spent waiting weren't for us. Also, we've done 5 trips together and have always changed our itinerary while we there. A couple of times because we got tired of rainy weather, other times to avoid a long trip for a short stay, but also because we decided we'd seen enough museums and churches and decided to hike. Our "detours" have been some of our most treasured memories.

We mix cars and trains. Trains for longer journeys and for travel to cities. When touring cities the car is a bother and we've had some wonderful time on trains. On the other hand, if you are spending more time in towns the car is a huge time saver. Rick has informative articles on Rail passes versus point to point tickets.

While, Germany, Italy and France is a lot of ground to cover in two weeks - we've done it and had a great time. I would recommend reminding yourself that this is your first trip, not your last. You don't need to see everything.

Best of Luck

i'm here with another vote for on your own. i know it does not sound like it, but all of the pre-planning is part of the adventure! i spent all of this year--starting on january first--planning our summer trip and i wouldn't have traded that experience for anything. in my opinion, it extends the excitement of the trip greatly--to do research and ask questions and read up on places you think you'd like to see. you will also be amazed at how cheaply you can do things if you plan them on your own--though, to be fair, that takes a LOT of research. literally not one day has passed in the last four and a half months that i've not worked on the trip at least a little. but the result is (and this might help you for planning/budgeting purposes): a four week trip out of nyc to london, paris, and then barcelona (and then out of london again) for two people cost me $4,604.92. and yes, i referenced the spreadsheet i made to figure that out! that includes every bit of lodging and transportation (the flights over and back, two eurostar tickets, and two flights on easyJet) keep in mind, this does not include food--but it IS a four week trip. you're looking at a two week trip. it can be done.

i also would like to second the advice above about using this board--which you are already doing, so that's great! and using tripadvisor--that is tied with this board as my #1 reference for lodging and activities. also--if you are looking at some form of lodging, google the address, and use 'street view' on google maps. that will give you an idea of whether it is an area you'd feel safe in (i did this for my lodging in barcelona and am glad i did!)

have a great trip, and please do use this board. if i can help you in any way--simply as someone who has already planned a crazy trip--feel free to private message me. best of luck to you!!!

an edit--i forgot to mention, we're 30 and 36, and our one lodging requirement was a private bathroom at all times!

I like doing it on my own. Maybe it's just my inner control freak coming out, but if I'm spending that much money, I want to go where I want to go, when I want to go. And it's really not that hard.

Doing your own trip does has its hang-ups, but they make for good adventures. Once you've mapped out your trip, you can figure out the transportation thing (car vs. train, there's lots of people on the board here who can help with either). Finding lodging from there is pretty easy. You can go with the guidebooks or look up your own online.

On one of our first trips to Germany, we ran into a couple about our age (late 20's) with a tour group. They were completely amazed that we were doing this on our own, and kept asking me questions about "how did you rent a car?" and "how did you find places to stay?" I think a lot of people believe that the language barrier is much bigger than it really is. You rent a car just like you do here, and you can find even most mom and pop places to stay online now.

Get a good guidebook, if they have a copy of Rick's Europe through the Back Door at your library, start with that. It'll give you a bit of the practical information to get you started.

I have to say plan it yourself!! You get to see what interests you and skip what doesn't. You can sleep in if you are tired or get going if you are awake...everything is on your schedule (and when dealing with jetlag it is a big deal). Use this website, TripAdvisor and RS guidebooks and plan a trip...we have been travelling on our own in Europe since 2002 (we were in our 30's). I do have one other suggestion...don't overplan!! Our first trip, we stayed in a different town in Germany every night and it was way too hectic (we saw a lot but we were exhausted). Enjoy the cafes and people watching, it adds a lot to the trip. Good luck!!

You have gotten great info...I would suggest going on you own you then can do things on your on schedule. As for places to stay, you could book the first night and last nights, then as you get to the towns/villages that you want to spend the night you can go to the tourist information center and they will get you a room.

Consider a mix of a do-it-yourself trip with a few escorted day tours thrown in by basing yourself in a few larger cities or towns and joining day tours into the countryside as needed. This way, you get more time to take the trip at your own pace, see only what truly interests you, and still have a few guided excursions that are totally planned out for you. For sightseeing in the city, find a free audio walking guide (many available on iTunes) and go out on your own. Big museums & churches have audio guides for rent or guided tours w/ docents in English.

You aren't too old for hostels. If you seek privacy, many hostels offer private rooms with a bathroom - although you may find staying in a budget hotel, a B&B, zimmer frei, or pensione is about the same cost. The difference is a hostel would have some useful amenities that you can take advantage of (i.e., kitchen facilities to save you money by cooking your own meals, coin-op laundry so you can pack light and wash clothes as you go). Also, consider other alternative lodging - for example, in Italy some monasteries & convents offer budget accommodation for travelers. Universities may have private rooms available for rent to travelers. If you are staying 3 or 4 nights in one place, you may want to rent a studio apartment - but factor in unanticpated fees (such as cleaning fees, security deposits, etc.) into the price for any apartment to see if it is the most cost-effective lodging for you.

A Eurail pass for a 2 week trip might not be the most cost-effective way to travel. Research whether it would be cheaper to buy a point-to-point train ticket or, if you are traveling a particularly long distance, a budget European airline (like Ryanair or Vueling) as long as you know in advance how close a secondary airport is to where you actually want to go.

As a rule of thumb, it's best to not try and tackle more than 1 country per week. And fly open-jaw so you don't needlessly waste time backtracking.

Well, I agree with Liz (Hi Snohomie!!) and others...

You are definitely not too old for a youth hostel. However, in research, I'm finding I'd rather pay for a private room in a small independent hotel - they don't seem to be much more expensive than booking a private room in a hostel.

Secondly, doing both is a great option. Take a shorter guided tour and then spend time doing your thing. It sounds like you have a pretty good idea about where you want to go, find a tour that partially fits your needs and then do the rest on your own. We actually 'stole' an itinerary from a guided tour and are doing it on our own.

Your budget looks to be about the same as ours for two weeks. We will be staying in B and B's and small hotels, and have rented an apartment in Paris.

Good luck!!! you'll do fine!

I think it depends on the personalities of the travelers. My mother, who is deathly afraid of getting lost, was perfectly happy to be lead around on big bus tours where they would spend hours at factories/stores being pressured to buy things. She liked not having to make any decisions. I prefer to be in charge of every detail. I want extreme value for my money (spending $4,000-$5,000 on something is a big deal to me and I want to choose exactly what I get). I think Rick Steves tours would be a very good option for a tour, but your budget sounds too low for this level of quality. In my past experience, the people who invest $20-$30 in good guidebooks and put the time into planning their own individual version of an ideal trip have a much more meaningful experience. Anytime you are paying for handlers, you are paying more money. Rather than pay people to take care of me, I would rather put that money into more museums or better restaurants and hotels. I happen to be a very fast reader, I walk fast and I like the freedom to just wander off down any alley or street that I find mysterious and interesting. I grow impatient with herds of people who travel at a slower pace than me. While it would be far easier to just join a tour, I am too independent and would find it frustrating and confining. Knowing who you are and your personal comfort level is extremely important in this kind of a decision. I get great satisfaction from reading this Helpline, TripAdvisor reviews on restaurants and hotels and the Rick Steves and other guidebooks. Planning for me is as important as the trip itself. Countless people who have never been to Europe have great experiences on their first trips when/if they put the time into planning. If you are young and adventurous and not easily frustrated by details, then an independent trip is a great experience.

Personally, I'd plan my own trip, but I guess it's a personal choice. Planning your own trip takes a lot of time; taking a packaged tour takes a lot of money. Rick's tours average about $280/day/person, double occupancy. I enjoy the planning, and, if I save money, I can go more often. On my last four trips (8 weeks) I have averaged about $100/day, single occupancy.

Have you been to Europe before? The first time would be the hardest to plan yourself.

Do you speak any of the languages in countries to which you are going? Speaking the language makes it much easier to find economical accommodations.

My suggestions for saving money on self planned trips:
1) Confine your travel to a smaller area. For instance, in your case, forget Italy. Do Paris, the Alsace, the Black Forest, Bavaria. By doing short hops, you can avoid long, expensive train trips.
2) Mostly stay out of large, expensive cities. There is a lot to see in the country. In Munich, I keep my accommodation costs down by staying in the suburbs, 25 min by S-Bahn from Marienplatz.
3) Avoid "US-style hotels" and booking agencies. They only feature the most expensive places. Find your accommodations on the town websites.
4) Avoid renting a car. Almost anything you want to see in Europe is accessible by public transportation. On my last five weeks, renting a car - quotes from rental companies and fuel estimates from ViaMichelin - would have cost me $1700. Using point-point, German Länder tickets, and savings fares, I spent $700 on transportation.

"We're looking to spend $4-5,000."

Each, or all together? All together would be very tight, Like, your airfare alone is going to be $800 to $1,000 each, which would leave only about $3,000 for two weeks hotels, food, etc. -- or around $100 a day per person. Could be done, but you would really have to budget carefully.

I have been on a RS tour and think they are an excellent way to travel, and more cost-effective than they seem at first. A bunch of small efficiencies add up; your guide takes you to the sights without delay, the bus drops you right at the hotel instead of having to make your way thru unfamiliar streets, reservations so you walk to the museum and walk right in, etc. My estimate is that it would take most independent travelers 3 days to do what a RS tour does in 2. However even a 10-day RS tour is going to be well over what you're looking to spend, and probably won't match the itinerary you want.

So you'll need to do it on your own. I think you are attempting too much with 3 countries. You're going to lose most of 2 days just going between countries, scratch off your arrival and departure days, and you're down to about 10 days of travel -- for 3 countries! I suggest trimming this down to 2 countries, and personally think you'd be better off exploring a mix of cities and smaller areas in just a single country or larger region. Keep in mind that even a move of what seems like "just 1 hour" by train takes about 1/2 the day when you count in packing up, getting to the station ahead of the train, travel time, and then finding your new hotel; it's often noon or later by the time you're out exploring again. I would suggest a home-base approach where you pick a place to stay for 3-4 days and do daytrips from there, rather than moving every 2nd day.

Read thru guide books as has been suggested. Also take a look at the many travel series on TV (and often available at your local library) so you can get a real sense of what the areas you're thinking of look like. Images can capture your imagination in ways words on the page never do.

You're never too old for hostels. I'm older than you but still stay at hostels regularly. I avoid the party hostels but there are plenty of clean, quiet and cheap hostels.

I'm not a fan of tours. While there are a variety of tours that cater to different crowds (one company specializes in 20 somethings, but many cater to a very much older crowd), they all have one thing in common - the only control you have over the itinerary is when you choose the tour. The best thing is you don't have to worry about it. The worst thing is you have no control.

Most are not all-inclusive, they include some meals and those are written specifically into the brochure. If it doesn't say a meal is included, it's not.

Read the language carefully. If the language says, "See Salisbury Cathedral", that is exactly what you will do - see the cathedral, probably as you drive by. Unless it specifically says you will visit somewhere, you won't.

Also everything that's listed as an "option" or "you can choose" costs extra (like a cruise excursion). It's easy to look at a brochure and mentally add in all the "options" and "sees" and think it's a better value than it is.

Another thing that drives me nuts is the time spent shopping at places that give the tour company kickbacks. I can shop at home so I consider it a waste of valuable travel time.

Traveling on your own involves planning. You might miss a train connection or stay somewhere that isn't very nice. Most of the time, those end up being the things you remember longest and laugh about most.

The more you learn in advance, the better your trip will be. Group tour participants often learn nothing in advance (and not much more while they're there).

I totally agree that the answer to this question depends on your personality. I know people who wouldn't take a tour if their lives depended on it and people who would not be comfortable traveling on their own.

I agree with Liz and others that taking a tour on a first trip to Europe is a good idea, or at least combining a tour and independent travel. I have taken tours and traveled independently and like a tour when I've never been to a country before and prefer independent travel for subsequent visits.

You can travel for less money independently, no question, but a tour provides expert planning and usually an excellent guide. If you're interested in learning about the places you are traveling, having an accomplished tour guide is invaluable and can really be an enriching experience. And your fellow tour members can also add a lot to your experience. I am partial to RS tours for the top notch guides and interesting people in the groups (and no planned shopping trips). Also RS tours usually have enough free time and don't include all meals so you do have time to wander and explore on your own.

If you do choose the independent route, be prepared to spend a lot of time planning your trip, finding accommodations, researching destinations, etc. Some people choose a tour mainly because they do not have the time to devote to trip planning. Even when taking a tour, reading up on and researching places you'll visit is enjoyable and time well spent.

Whatever you choose, I hope you have a wonderful time!

one more thing on budgeting--while i realize it is far more expensive to eat in restaurants AND far more expensive to eat in restaurants in europe, please keep in mind that when you budget food into your trip, you'd be eating at home anyway. i know that we go out to eat at least twice a week, and i spend at least $200 a week on groceries anyway--that's over $300 per week on food just to stay at home. so add $600 to your food budget!

Emily,

As some others have said here you're never too old for a hostel; there are ways to avoid the "party hostels" which really don't bother me in regards to noise level. I'm twice your age. At your age you two should work out your own trip together for France and Germany, using Rough Guide and Let's Go: Western Europe or the individual country volumes to help plan and organise where and what to see. I only rely on these two works as far as most of the sightseeing and visiting is concerned.
I have never gone on an organised tour and at your young age it did not even occur to me, but I have taken city tours, such as in Prague, East Berlin and West Berlin (back in 1984 and 1971), and of course, Potsdam (in 1987 and 1995). Those I would recommend, depending upon their schedule. I traveled solo for 10 weeks out of a 12 week stay on my first trip over at 21, that doesn't mean I didn't make mistakes but nothing major.

In Germany stay at the Pensionen and DJH hostels, you can get private rooms with the facilities. I would suggest going to a mixture of big cities and smaller cities. One drawback of an organised tour is that it does not meet my interests and I would wind up going to places 3rd or 4th priority, when I could have seen something I wanted to. By being on your own, I believe it's more economical, at least in Germany. In France I stayed only once at HI hostel in Paris...the other times at 2 star hotels, Paris, Metz, Stasbourg...these vary in price but were not disappointing. Aside from saving on accomodations, another area is in eating expense. The major train stations in Ger. (since you'll be there) such as Frankfurt, Cologne, Leipzig, Hannover, Hamburg, Berlin, Munich are good places to eat and relatively inexpensive, whether you want German, pizza, fish, Italian, Asian stir fry, etc. You see plenty of locals doing this, whereas I hardly see Americans.

I have done both. And they each have their advantages. You're right nice to have someone else do the planning. I would recommend a combo trip. Do part of it as a tour and part on your own. Remember, you will return! What I liked about being part of tour, whether it was Rick Steves' or my friend's walking tours is that the decisions were made for me. I truly was able to relax and go with the flow. Now, obviously this works when you're in synch with the tour. I found it easy to be in synch with the Rick Steves tours. When I go I never make the whole trip the tour. Instead, I'll spend a week with the tour group and a week on my own. That works well for me and might be something for you to consider.

Pam

You should also consider what you hope to get out of the trip -- by this I mean: what will you have when you get home?

My experience with a 3-week all-inclusive tour of Europe was that when I got home I felt like I saw Europe as a series of postcards...stopped here, took a picture, got back on the bus; stopped there, took a picture, got back on the bus... Most mornings we had to get up early & have our bags outside our door by 6:00. And, the time spent in some cities was very early before anything was open (or late after things had closed)...because we had to make tracks for the next destination, or got into town late and had to leave early the next morning. Yes, people were grumpy -- there were some very nice people, but some weren't so nice & they weren't all Americans either. Some hotels were nice, some weren't so nice. Some restaurants were good, some weren't, but we didn't have much choice, or opportunity to try things on our own.

My next experience, about 16 years later -- we did it on our own. My Mom, who was about 71 at the time & I (40-something), planned a 5-week trip to England & France. We rented cars and stayed in B&B's. We studied before-hand and knew what we wanted to see & do. Most importantly, we found our own "backdoors" -- places that excited us and felt special, like they were there just for us. And, when we came home, we had rich memories that have lasted to this day -- 16 years and 3 trips later!

We used Rick Steves' books as our guides, but tailored to our own needs -- we want a private bathroom, if you please!

If you do decide to do an all-inclusive tour, make sure it is a good one and do your homework before you leave -- do research on the places the tour visits, so you will know what is there and can make best use of your time at each destination.

Good luck! And, Bon voyage!

I don't want to leave you with the impression that doing it on our own wasn't without its own challenges & frustrations because there were plenty of those ... driving around Heathrow for 26 miles before I could find my way out of the airport onto the Motorway, comes to mind ... But, after we got home those just seemed like part of the adventure and made great stories to tell the folks back home.

"an edit--i forgot to mention, we're 30 and 36, and our one lodging requirement was a private bathroom at all times!"

Be aware that a private bathroom is not the same as en suite. A private bathroom in Euro hotel speak, may be a bathroom down the hall. Tracy, I have a feeling you meant en suite.

Someone correct me if I am wrong about the distinction. As if I have to say that on this board!!

Just a quick follow-up. A previous post compared paying $700 for train fare vs $1700 for car rental, for the same trip. Note that, as I mentioned earlier, for two or more people traveling, car rental is quite comparable to train fare: 2 x $700 = $1400 vs $1700. For a $300 premium, I'll take the freedom of a car.

And as far as the assertion that most anything worthwhile seeing is accessible by public transportation, I'm sorry but that just doesn't hold up. I've camped on a farm on the Dordogne, eaten lunch in restaurants where tourists rarely taste the food, explored the castle above Rommel's headquarters in Normandy... so many experiences possible only if you drive. Everyone's on the train, everyone's staying in the hotels near the train station, everyone's eating in the restaurants near the train station. If experiencing Europe means traveling along with all the other tourists, then by all means take the train. But if it means seeing what that country and people are all about, eschew the trains. IMHO.

True, I must admit that had I not been driven there, I would not have seen La Roche Guyon either. Whether it is accessible by public transportation, I don't know.

To see the villages it is necessary to be motorised, such as with the villages around Metz: Gravelotte, Mars-la-Tour, St, Privat, etc. The same applies to seeing, in detail, Waterloo, where luckily, again, I was driven to and around in 1984.

in response to michael above--yes, i did mean en suite. sorry. was edit typing quickly!