I’m not looking for political or any vaccine or pro vaccine.
I have health conditions that would make Covid a probable death sentence for me so I will get the vaccine but
I’m wondering if we think countries will impose a vaccine certificate to enter their country ?
Not just Europe either. Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, etc etc
Just looking for opinions and not to start fights. If it starts a fight I will delete.
I would think yes, at least for a year or two, until we build, worldwide, some kind of meaningful herd immunity.
We haven't done that in the recent pass. Once the virus is beaten down via treatment, infections, and vaccination, it probably would be treated like any other serious disease. Diseases like measles are more deadly and we don't ask for vaccination proof for measles. Just a matter of time.
Good question, one that I have asked myself and my husband. I would think it depends on the number of cases of the country you are traveling from or if the pandemic is officially declared over. So many factors, but each month the news is encouraging. I don’t believe most countires can afford another year of lost travel money. My husband and I have already said we would get one if it meant we could travel freely.
Probably, at least for a while. Which countries and for how long is another question and I guess it kind of depends on how effective the vaccine(s) turn out to be and how easy we can get the virus under control. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU changed the travel rules to allow visitors from at least certain countries with vaccine certificates, even if those countries are considered "high risk".
That's an interesting question--I don't really have an opinion, but will be interested in the answer! The other important question for me is how long it will take before enough people are vaccinated here and internationally that I would feel safe traveling, since vaccines aren't usually 100% effective.
I am really trying to be optimistic about travel next year, al least by the fall. If not Internationally, then we will definately travel around the US.
As of 23 November, anybody entering Spain or its islands will have to show a negative Covid test, taken within 72 hours of arrival, so it’s likely that as and when a vaccine becomes available, that proof of such will need to be shown in some countries. However, the vaccines will not provide 100% immunity.
Time will tell.
I suspect that is a likely possibility, BUT
The 'devil in the details' will be the challenge to implement such a thing
-Will the EU adopt a unified standard, or will each country set its own requirement? All other countries in general?
-Which vaccine(s) will be acceptable.
What sort of document will be required/accepted. Will the US create a Federal agency to issue an internationally recognized document of vaccination? No foreign country is going to train its border control to recognize what 50 different state departments of health certifications look like to make sure it is genuine.
Will one need a health visa, so that the country you want to go to can verify your vaccination documents ( letter from a doctor or whatever)?
As a Nurse Anesthetist, I certainly hope so. It is already required to fly out of the country to the places that are open to us - I have friends flying in January to Turks & Caicos and they have to test pre-flight.
All the opinions you're getting here are worth what you're paying for them, of course. ;-)
I used to have a yellow card certifying that I'd been vaccinated against smallpox, required long ago for at least some overseas travel. I think the format came from the World Health Organization. It was signed by a doctor. My guess (see above for its value) is that something similar will reopen the gates of most countries, especially if the particular vaccine has been approved by multiple FDA counterparts and is highly effective (as Pfizer's is reported to be).
If we're very lucky, this might all come to pass in about a year's time. (See again above for what that's worth.)
Joe and Dick have both mentioned documentation. The standard recognized internationally for decades has been the International Certificate of Vaccination and Prophylaxis issued under license by WHO via its member states. It is still required to enter certain countries for diseases such as yellow fever. It's not outside the realm of possibility that some countries may require proof of COVID vaccination upon entry, at least for a few years. This is the certification that would likely be used, since the whole world isn't digital just yet.
I certainly hope so.
Your local (US) health department can give you one of those yellow cards, and your doctor or pharmacist can fill in details of any vaccine you get. Its a good idea to get one anyway, to use as a reference for any shots you get - tetanus, flu, pneumonia, shingles, hepatitis, DPT, etc.
I agree with Barbara and Badger. I would think that a card of documentation would be issued to those getting a vaccine......and it will be required for entry into countries for travel in the future.........I hope so as i am ready to go!
Thanks for posting this question. I've been talking with my wife about the same thing. While it's all speculation at this point, it's still nice to be able to bounces best guesses off of each other here.
We're hoping to make up our Europe trip that was cancelled this summer in July. Since the health experts, at least here in the U.S., are expecting the general public to be getting the vaccine in late March, into April, I'm hopeful, but I'm trying stay grounded.
To answer your question, I think that we'll likely see a proof of vaccination requirement. Under that assumption, I am hoping that we can get appropriate documentation when we get our shots, so that whatever the proof requirements are we can meet them without jumping through too many hoops.
At least we are starting to see a trickle of real information coming in now, such as Pfizer's effectiveness and expected roll out, along with health experts providing a tentative timeframe for general public roll out. Next couple of months should help fill in the blanks and give us a much better picture of what and when for international travel.
I think every traveler should carry their yellow immunization card. Remember recently there was a measles outbreak on a cruise ship and every person on board had to get a booster to leave the ship. I would rather carry my yellow card; or in this case as I don't have measles listed on my yellow card, I have a copy of my immunity test. I prefer to have control of the quality of the vaccine and the skill of those who provide them.
Australia, in particular has some very rigid rules as to what can come into the country. Even something as benign as cloves cannot be brought in as it is considered a seed, therefore a foreign noxious plant. So, I would not be surprised that they take as much care for their inhabitants as their environment.
But, I agree that after practice is established, the requirement to provide certification will be reduced.
The CDC731 "yellow card" can be purchased on Amazon for under $10 for 2 to 4 cards depending on the vendor. The US printing office also sells them.
Still looks a long way off for me.
(LOL just checking to see if the RS team was still at work)
I think yes through 2021, then the requirement will start to relax once a country feels it's population is safe from outsiders ... but in the short term, since there is no worldwide standard vaccination/test record, what they would require is anyone's guess ... with today's technology, any paper document can be copied/forged if someone really wants to gain entry into another country without a certificate once that country opens up, so my guess is countries will not fully open, regardless of paperwork stating negative tests or vaccination, until they feel a vaccine has been sufficiently distributed worldwide ...
Two crucial things not known: whether you can take any of the vaccines to be approved and still be contagious; and whether you will have to take it regularly (like the flu shot).
How often should I be getting my flu shot? Every 3 months?
Great observations so far. Thanks for playing.
With the new vaccine today saying 94.5% I was getting excited.
I want to go to Ireland so badly.
Once a year for the flu works for me.
Not just my idle speculation, but some discussion in the public health community that we dont know if any immunity through vaccination will be permanent.
Interesting thread. I’ve been wondering this myself. I’m guessing yes. Or some sort of documentation. Hawaii is requiring a Covid test before traveling there and upon arrival. I can see more requirements like this or proof of vaccination coming into place. I wonder about large gathering places - will that be required for big tourist gathering spots, concerts, etc?
Here is a snippet from CJ Wilkinson's Blog
Europe Between East And West
I think he is the best travel writer on the planet. Very worth reading it in full as well as his 800+ other posts.
Those plague columns that I have seen standing in so many Eastern European cities, now seem oddly appropriate. They are monuments to a past that was just as precarious as our present and future. The past, present and future have converged rather than collided. COVID-19 is a milder and more modern form of the plague. It has killed many and altered the lives of even more. Borders have closed, reopened and closed once again. The Balkans and the rest of Eastern Europe have not been this closed off since the Iron Curtain cordoned it off from the rest of the western world. The curtain that now stands today is translucent. We can see through it and dare not go beyond it. That curtain is something we have learned to hide behind. History has returned, the tourists have not. The pandemic has proven once again that history has its own logic, only in hindsight will we ever make sense of it.
It should be and would be easier and more accurate than testing.
The best of life doesn't come easy
Some Asian airlines are addressing this:
The CEO of Quantis Airlines has said that they are evaluating requiring a Covid vaccine shot to board an international flight.
It seems logical that the vaccine would make traveling easier. You still have to deal with testing, masks and quarantining; closed, reduced hours and reservations for sites/restaurants and transportation rules. This is true in our country and abroad. Until our country is open to foreign travelers I don’t see them welcoming us openly. Vaccine or no vaccine. We’ve seen that with the cost of visas for years.
Not so fast...the industry says.
This sounds more like they don't want to wait for everyone to be vaccinated rather than concern for logistics.
Well I wouldn't expect any money driven entity to endorse rules that might bite into their bottom line. It will be up to the individual countries (or blocs) to stipulate what will be necessary for entry through their borders. It may be vaccination only, or more likely, a choice if vaccination or testing/mandatory quarantine. And the airlines will have no choice but to abide by those rules. While I would be happier to see mandatory vaccination for nonessential travel, I would expect a more pragmatic approach, at least for this year, as the vaccine gradually rolls out.
My guess is the money grubbing flight attendants, pilots, restaurants, B&B's, guides and other tourist vendors will eventually win out.
The best bet is if we nationalize all the airports and close them until every man, woman and child is vaccinated.
Of course the Supreme Court has held forced vaccinations unconstitutional, but that can always be "reinterpreted".
Sad to hear Walter Williams passed ... another great mind lost.
Personally, I don't want a vaccine. I'm not anti-vaccines in general but I look at each one individually as a risk/reward question. What is the risk? Is it serious enough to avoid? How safe has the vaccine proven to be (they all have side effects)?
Shingles is a yes. Pneumonia is a yes. COVID is a no. Flu shot is a no.
Why? I already had COVID. It wasn't that bad. I know I now have antibodies. Even if the antibodies won't make me immune forever, it's still not that bad of an illness. That may change when I get older or develop serious comorbidities?
I took the flu shot for years because I was military (along with a long list of worldwide immunizations on my shot records) and I had no choice. When I was detailed to CDC I learned that flu shots have a roughly zero percent chance of working because they consistently pick the wrong flu strains. There's a popular untruth that you get some benefit from a flu shot even if they picked the flu strain wrong. At CDC I learned that wasn't the case so I don't take them now.
Eventually, I'll become frail enough that a flu could kill me. At that point, I'll start taking the flu shot again because the risk is much worse - even if there is little chance it will help.
Slackware, apparently when they disagree with you. It was a well thought out argument for that one person choosing to not take it. Not one I agree with, but I can respect.
