Do I Have to Leave and Come Back to Renew Schengen 180 Day Rule?

Here's my interpretation of the rule: Your 180-day "clock" started on July 7. It therefore expires on approximately January 8. On January 8th, you will have used up your 89 or 90 days, depending on how you count. At that point, you must exit the Schengen zone and wait 90 days before you can re-enter. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

This is MY opinion and understanding and should be viewed as nearly worthless. You should have exited the Schengen area some time prior to Jan 1, 2011 since it is 180 days and not six months. And then re-entered to start the new 180 day period. You might check with an Am embassy since you have now overstayed your current visa limit.

Nobody knows if you are wrong, Tom. But it is not my understanding. It is 90 days out of 180. If you stayed a continuous 90 days, then you would have to be out for 90 days. However, if you use up your 89th day on your 179th day, then a new 180 days start when you reenter on the 181st day. BUT that is just my opinion.

Again, only an opinion. Opinions are like belly buttons; everyone has one. A poster years ago explained it in a way that made sense. It's not a fixed 180 day period, but a "sliding" one. As of today, or any day, you cannot have been in the Schengen zone for more than 90 of the last 180 days. For today, the 180 day period started June 6, and you've been in for about 84 days (?depending on partial days are counted). Tomorrow, the last 180 days will have started June 7, and you will have been in for one more day. After that, the days drop off of the start as you add them to the end, so it's still 85 days out of the last 180. Just don't stay in past March 7. I don't know that the American Embassy can help you. Maybe you should go to a Schengen passport control office, counter, ?

This is an app waiting to be invented. If only I had the know-how and understanding of the Schengen rule to invent it. Enter your dates and let the "formula" do the rest. Anyways, I agree that you should probably ask someone with more authority on this, perhaps a Schengen visa officer, if such a thing exists. With that said, the rule states that your stay "does not exceed three months in any half-year from the date of first entry". So, your half-year will end on 1/7/12. It does not appear that you exceeded the 90-days. How I interpret it is that your time will start over on 1/7/12 and you may not stay more than 90-days until 7/7/12. Continuing with my interpretation, you need not exit to restart the clock. However, this is only my interpretation. I may (am probably am) completely incorrect. Please check with a lawyer. This website also has a discussion forum specific to Schengen, so maybe ask your question there: http://www.euro-dollar-currency.com/90_180_days_rule.htm

My interpretation is similar to Lee's: that the 180 days is a sliding calendar and that if within the past 180 days, your stay exceeds 90 days, then you are in violation. You are not allowed to "leave for a day" and re-enter with a new 180 days. But as everyone has stated, none of us are immigration experts so you really need to confirm with the US embassy.

I agree with Lee and Douglas that it is a sliding window, not a given set of dates. You were out of the Schengen area for 90 days, so essentially your "date of first entry" is now Dec. 7. And as Douglas said, you can't restart the clock by leaving for a day or two and coming back. Once the 90 days are used, you must leave for 90 days.

Nothing makes people happy around here as much as talking about Schengen.

Lee, Douglas, Nancy and I all see it the same way. I think you need to deal with this ASAP, Matt.

Richard says, Nothing makes people happy around here as much as talking about Schengen. It won't be if the EU decides to take action against the US on it. Part of the deal about the agreement is that Table II countries, including the USA, can use it if they display mutuality. In other words, I'll let your guys in if you let my guys in. The USA has been reported to the Commission for not doing that, particularly the cost of getting entry into the US for Schengen citizens. There is no cost for Americans, or other Table II countries using the Schengen agreement visa waiver. Because of the high costs to enter the US the Commission could move the US into Table I. ... just sayin' ...

Check my math, but I believe that on January 9th, Matt will have been in the Schengen zone 90 of the previous 180 days (counting backward from January 9), and will therefore have to exit the Schengen zone. I promised myself I wouldn't come back to this thread, but I couldn't help myself. Which proves, I guess, that Richard is right.

@Lee You rock, I think you have it exactly right. By March 7th I should leave. By then, looking back 180 days, I will have been in Schengen for 3 months out of 6 months. The days I've been in Schengen will drop off as my new days are added. Picture it.....the calendar is always "sliding along" :) Best, and Happy New Year!

"Check my math, but I believe that on January 9th, Matt will have been in the Schengen zone 90 of the previous 180 days (counting backward from January 9), and will therefore have to exit the Schengen zone." Hence on January 10th, he will still have been in the schengen zone just 90 days in the last 180 days...... .....because you drop the first schengen day and add the last schengen day. Makes sense?

ooops. I guess that's what Lee said above.

I love Maryam's "app" suggestion, and I agree with Lee. I have posted a similar (non-legally-binding, IMHO, YMMV, etc) opinion in the past. I believe this is a "rolling" 180 days; if at any time it can be determined you have been in the Schengen zone a total of 90 days (whether continuous or broken up), your time is up. Others (in the past) have posted that you can spend 90 days within the past 180, leave for a day, then start your next 90 days against the future 180. Doesn't pass the sniff test.

Hi Matt. Remember that part of the equation is the passport control person you encounter. He/She may be nice, or a real ( adjective) jerk. I think we all have bad passport control agent stories. Here's my favorite: a friend from Canada was going to visit my daughter in Berlin. My daughter was meeting her at Heathrow and was just beyond passport control (at the window, waiving). They were going to go together on a connecting flight to Berlin. Her Canadian friend was told she had to have a local address in London. She did not have a London address written down, as she was in transit. The agent said she MUST have a local address; they wouldn't accept her connection, even though she had the ticket in hand. They put her in a holding room and forced her to purchase a return ticket and leave the next day for Canada. All the while, my daughter was screaming that she was meeting her and they weren't even staying in London. Go figure. We think they like to make examples for whatever reasons sometimes. BTW, my daughter in Switzerland overstayed her visa by 3 days and was fined 500 euros, which I paid. Again, depends on the agent you happen to draw that day. All the best to you in your journey!

A thought exercise, very simple: Assume: - you are very rich - you have an helicopter - days are counted (in or out of Schengen area) according to the place where you wake up Then, you could theoretically do the following: - one day, you wake up in SW Spain Coast, enjoy the sun and, late at night (say 11PM) you hop on your helicopter and flies to Morocco
- the other day, you wake up, eat some cuscus, visit some markets and late at night you hop on your helictoper back to SW Spain coast. Theoretically, such an arrangement would yield you an "unlimited" stay in Spain, as the "sliding" scale would mean you would have never violated the 90-in-180 days maximum. (In practical terms, they count as much days as you spend in the Schengen area, regardless of time). So there is no "clock" to be "reset" like for a visitor from Europe heading to US on a visa waiver program entry, for instance. OTOH, there is no get around the cumulative days rule, and no visa runs. In any case, should an immigration officer decide to investigate more such case at a point of entry, he/she could find "interesting" that somebody is staying this long in EU, and question more intensively the person about whether the visitor is just visiting or actually living or - worse - working in EU.

I found the actual rule from the "Official Journal of the European Union." The wording is "a duration of three months in any six-month period from the date of first entry in the territory of the member states." If Matt's "date of first entry" is taken to be July 7, his 90 days are up next week. Here's the reference: http://tinyurl.com/7v8wpb6 I guess it gets down to how you define "date of first entry."

The "date of first entry" is always what confuses people (understandably so). Some interpret that as each time you "enter" the zone, a new 180 day period starts and past visits no longer count. Hence the thought that one could just leave for a day and return with a fresh 180 days. But the 180 days is still active from any prior entry, thus the best way to think of it is as a rolling calender.

Lee, Douglas and Nancy are correct. The date of first entry is the date of your current entry into the EU but it is possible to have more than one.
Here's an example: Let's say I enter on Jan 1 (and lets assume all months have 30 days to make math easy.) I can stay any 90 days through June 30. I leave on Jan 30. (i've used up 30 days) I return on May 1, I have 60 days left. At the end of June, my 60 days are up...however, since I re-entered on May 1, a new 180 days period started. Onn July 1, a new 180 period doesn't start, but a continuation of the 180 days that started on May 1.I have 30 days left in that 180 day period. If a new 180 day period started on July 1, I could, technically stay for 6 months straight which is not allowed. How? I arrive Jan 1. Leave the next day. Return April 1. Stay 90 days until until July 1. Then, according to some, a new 180 day period starts so I can stay an additional 90 days making a total of 180 days straight. This is not allowed so the concept that a new 180 period starts automatically after the first 180 day period is false--sort of. If I entered on Jan 1 and stayed 90 days, then left for 90 days, then re-entered on July 1, then yes, a new 180 day period would start. But if I had entered anytime between April 1 and June 30, it would change things. So, Matt, your new 90 out of 180 started on Dec. 7 You have 62 days left.