Disturbing trends in air travel

Who knows, all of the above, but I took my first flight since the pandemic last week upon becoming fully vaccinated. This was the only thing I was worried about--someone acting stupid. I purchased a first class seat for the anxiety, but this is only an hour flight, so I don't want to do that all the time (otoh, for such a short flight, it was not considerably more expensive).

I can tell you this sort of thing and the sardine jamming during covid is why I won't be accepting any flights routing through the US for some time to come. At least I have options. That being said, US isn't alone for these incidents.

During the pandemic many people did not like being told what to do or what they could not do. Being an airline passenger is an even more intense do-as-we-say environment, which may aggrivate a person's last nerve and they act out. This flare-up will fade as things get back to normal, but in the meantime the FAA should fine, jail, or no-flight list these malcontents.

This is alarming and outrageous, hopefully the airlines and the powers that be come down hard on each and every one. More air marshals would be a good start at stopping bad behavior.

I don't understand why people book flights and then refuse to follow the rules? Flights are expensive and if you confront an airline employee you could end up with either legal problems or being banned from flying so what is the benefit in behaving in this manner?

I have noticed over the last 15 years that Americans do not practice manners like they did 20-30 years ago, our culture has become very confrontational, even my own family has become unable to get together without someone getting angry over political or religious subjects.

I guess Forrest Gump was correct: "Stupid is as Stupid does".

I think everyone has made excellent points. Many people do not like being told what to do. I don't understand this while flying, and have always had great respect for flight attendants because that has to be a heckuva tough job. Just imagine some of the people and situations they must deal with regularly. My goal is to be as low maintenance as possible.

I agree the airlines and or the FAA needs to come down like a hammer on these people.

Maybe they should recruit ex-football players like offensive and defensive linemen for air marshals.

I think people have become desocialized and are acting in public how they do on social media. There are disturbing things happening at sporting events too as they resume having crowds.

The crowd behavior at the end of the PGA had a strong edge to it that you dont see at golf tournaments. Fans were coming within an inch of assaulting players at an NBA playoff game. It was close to getting very ugly when one dumped a full box of popcorn on Russel Westbrook. A couple other incidents happened where a players was quoted they felt they would have to take things into their own hands because the crowd behavior was much more inappropriate than they had seen before.

Coarsening of behavior/politics. Covid desocialization. Also in the US our social norms and lack of consequences for unsocial behavior after the last few years seems to have fundamentally changed.

It definitely is a disturbing trend, not only on airplane rides but in society in general. While I generally see most people still being polite to each other out in public, I also see a whole lot of people being extremely rude on social media. It's like people can hide behind anonymity and let out all their supressed anger, and then somehow they can't control it when physically around other people.

I've taken six plane rides since COVID started (mostly for medical reasons), and never have seen any problems from anyone. That's encouraging!

Isn't everyone on edge from the lack of space and restricted limb movement?

Of course they are. But there is such a thing as anger management that seems to be missing in so many these days. They've pretty much been given a green light for such behavior by watching public figures get away with it without any consequences.

I agree with the poster above who said they are acting in public the way they behave on social media.

There has to be severe consequences and societal rejection or this will never end.

Add to the societal changes a few TSA employees and flight attendants who appear to take joy in being petty tyrants.

Frustrated/cramped/tired passengers are tempted to lash out when conflicting standards are enforced.

Although my wife and I have never lashed out at anyone before or during an air trip, there have been times when arbitrary standard enforcement has had us biting our tongues. We had one flight during covid where one member of a crew of five flight attendants seemed to particularly focus on whether my wife put her mask back on after every sip from her water bottle. All we could do was comply and hope she went to another part of the plane next sip. One of her peers gave us a look that seemed to say "sorry about her, she's having a bad day, we're not all like that"

What Nancy said:

There has to be severe consequences and societal rejection or this will never end.

There hasn't been effective punishment for this kind of behavior. Social media encourages it. I don't think COVID is a cause, more likely a society that from the top down says "if you can get away with it, its not wrong".

I would like to see follow up on these kinds of incidents to know if people were actually punished or airlines quietly drop the charges.

The flight attendants are just doing their jobs. They didn’t personally arrange the seat configuration in the packed plane, nor did they create the seat belt policy. Even if the woman who attacked the flight attendant didn’t like being asked (told?) to fasten her belt (please? pilot says?), hitting the attendant, let alone knocking out two teeth, is unacceptable.

Nastiness on planes, and online, is also exhibited in the increasing road rage incidents in the USA. Maybe these are the same people. It’s getting worse, and more people are getting hurt - or worse.

Unfortunately, people in AL arent the only ones with the motto "We dare to defend our rights"-like the "right" not to wear a seatbelt or mask on a plane.

Sadly this one is "all of the above" since everyone has outlined all the various and sundry factors

I wonder, too, if these were bullies in school? They got started early and have never stopped. Maybe got cues from their parent(s)?

Beware the individual who is dying for a smoke five hours into an eight hour flight or the one who has already had that one-drink-too-many or the one who needs that drink now!

I think a big part of the current problem is with those who say that are just exerting their 'rights' or 'freedoms', when in reality they are confusing rights and freedoms with 'privileges'. One does not have the 'right' to ignore the rules, regulations, and policies of a particular business, institution, or venue when we disagree with them or just don't like them, especially when those rules are mostly for safety reasons. The lines have been blurred in recent years and not just because of the pandemic. It started long before that, but it has increased with the stresses of the pandemic - loss of jobs, unreasonable seeming rules, lack of social gatherings, etc..

Our normal way of life was disrupted but that's no reason to ignore common decency, courtesy, and compliance with restrictions.

I just watched the video online. It's very disturbing! -- the poor Flight Attendant. Now FAs probably should have tasers. Geesh. People are so out of hand.

Such aggression and anger from the female passenger. Unreal. I think wild animals are more tame.

Passengers know the rules - why on Earth do some like to push things - like they are "entitled." IF there was an emergency landing or rough turbulence, she'd be screaming for help. If she bumped her head, maybe she'd get some sense knocked into her.

I hope that female gets a no fly ban on all airlines; a hefty fine; bodily harm and assault charges filed against her on behalf of the FA; and a 90-day mental health evaluation. No coddling. She should pay restitution to the FA for all dental work.

Imagine if the flight attendants were permitted to punch back!

Their safety training is now probably going to include judo, if it doesn’t already.

At the risk of being tedious, I think if you had some big, hulking guy in a government suit that is just sort of being visible, that would calm people down before they acted out. I'm not referring to punching someone out, although that's warranted in some cases, but just physically being able to restrain someone until they calmed down.

Retired military vets/NGs, up to maybe 45 years old? (in good physical shape), would be a good choice.

I do not think there are enough air marshalls to go on thousands of flights - I think they are reserved for the most controversial flights.

My personal opinion is that it is due to alcohol + sedatives. Why is alcohol served on short domestic flights?

I think no alcohol should be served on any flight.

There will always be those who will fight to the death for the right to shoot themselves in the head.

Last week I flew for the first time post pandemic and a lady in the next row refused to put on her mask because she “has allergies”. When the attendant said that the mask would possibly help filter these allergens, the lady went off. The attendant gave her three seconds to put on the mask and shut up or she would be pulled off the plane. Not a peep from the lady for the rest of the flight. Hilariously, the lady’s husband was banging his head against the bulkhead during the whole exchange. Poor guy.

I agree with not serving alcohol on flights, especially short flights, but perhaps even on all flights going everywhere.
Why is it that all these people causing a terrible ruckus seem to be mainly on American flights?
Is it just because these are the ones that make the news?
I'm always wary of the person next to me who keeps on ordering drinks.....hopefully just to pass out .
I can deal with the snoring after too many drinks , but would be very scared if a passenger went postal mid flight.

I can see no alcohol on short flights but it could be an issue for chronic alcoholics on long ones. They can experience serious withdrawal symptoms - such as seizures - in as little as 6 hours. That's why some rehab facilities without trained, supervised detox services require incoming patients to check into detox centers for a few days first before being allowed to enter their program.

I guess they could get around it by allowing passengers to bring limited amounts for personal, in-flight consumption but to my knowledge, consumption other than what's served in the aircraft is illegal. I don't think that anyone who is visibly intoxicated should be allowed to board.

Sadly, it's not restricted to just air travel. It was recently announced in my neck of the woods that lockdown restrictions are gradually going to be lifted Monday. In mid-June some public spaces such as libraries will reopen. I was speaking to a manager at a local public library yesterday and she said her staff is not looking forward to it as there have been too many incidents in the past year of verbal abuse at the librarians when they are reminded that patrons must still wear masks. Also too many incidents to count of teenage part time workers being verbally abused by meatheads when reminded of masking rules.

Southwest announced today they are delaying return of alcohol service on their flights, citing passenger incidents:

https://thepointsguy.com/news/southwest-airlines-drink-service-resuming/

It was reported today in the Sacramento Bee newspaper that Southwest has given this customer a lifetime ban. Charges are still being processed and she’s out on bail.

Southwest stopped serving alcohol during the Pandemic, and this may be a carryover into the “New Normal” for a while.

The air passenger problems might be another aspect of the unfortunate term that’s been offered by some, Revenge Travel.

Thank you Mona for that update. Very good news. My guess is being “out on bail” is not new to her.

I didn't see any update on the injured flight attendant.

I wonder if all airlines have a database to put in passenger names who are aggressive and unruly.

Girasole:
Per various news reports, as of the beginning of May, US airlines have individually banned over 4000 passengers. The banned passenger lists do not appear to be shared between the airlines.

Alan,

Thank you.

Sacramento? Southwest?

I was getting off a Southwest flight in Sacto a few years ago, waiting in the aisle line, and the guy in front of me dropped something. I tapped his shoulder to point it out and he wheeled on me with a cocked fist. I jumped back, knocked the person behind me down, and fell over into the seats on my left. The dude just turns around like it was nothing and didn't even acknowledge he'd done anything.

That's the absolute last time I ever flew Southwest. Something about that airline attracts the kind of people who shouldn't be flying in the first place.

-- Mike Beebe

You clearly have not been on a Spirit flight! There is no escape from the ghetto factor on any domestic airline these days, unfortunately. Things should still be relatively civilized on international flights, as the prices keep the "element" away...

Mike Beebe, Wow. Just incredible. Lucky you being behind him.

Where's my 7'3" cousin when you need him? He retired from a career in law enforcement. They called him the "gentle giant." All he had to do is show up and the perps settled down real fast. 😁

Kudos to the gentleman who stepped in to assist the flight attendant. And thanks to the airlines that are banning these bratty, entitled, too big for their britches, the rules don't apply to me adults from flying.

The next step is for the airlines to share this information with each other. That can't be all that difficult since they have the technology to do that already.

Last but should probably be first, thanks to flight attendants everywhere for the work that they do. Without them, none of us could fly anywhere.

Well said, Lo! 👏

There are many many factors.

-The airlines don’t help themselves with the horrible seating especially in cattle class. With the ridiculous rules and fees, the stupid prices (i can fly cheep to Europe starting in Chicago flying to Detroit then on to Europe then I can getting on the same plane in Detroit. And while many folks at the airline are wonderful the truth is a lot of the are arrogant attitudes. I had one on a trip to Europe arguing with my that I shouldn’t check my bag or my dads bag as they were carry on size. I pointed out to her that I didn’t want to mess with the bags and we both had small back packs as carry on. Plus my dad was getting wheel chair service. But …. She argued with me longer then it took to check my bag in.. So the airlines are not helping themselves
-Then you have the ridiculous rules and lines at security…
-Then because they want you at the airport early and the seating sucks a lot of folks go get a drink somewhere
-Then you have the boarding mess where some folks are taking forever because they have a huge heavy suitcase they can’t lift and that takes up way to much space.
-and of course some folks are not exactly good air travelers so they are on edge.
-then you get issues involving fellow passengers such as those that push on your seat or intrude into you space and those that make a ton of noise (a screaming infant is always a joy)
-Then we have a whole generation or two that was raised to believe they are extra special and deserves anything they want. It is hard to accept no for an answer when you grew up not having been told no. Everyone gets a trophy, teachers that cant discipline kids, parents that won’t help the teachers, etc etc etc.

-And of course in general the middle class/working classes lot in the US has gotten worse over the last three decades or so. So the are under more stress
-Stress in general, Hard to relax and get away from it all when you bring it with you. Work thinks they can call email or txt anyone at anytime and often don’t respect weekends or vacation days, you M.In L calls complaining about something on you way to your vacation and because you have smart phones she can call you the whole vacation. Etc etc. So you cant trully leave your cares and troubles behind.
-so called social media being anonymous results in folks that say and do whatever they want “safe” behind there false name. So we get more and more used to rude behavior.
-A news media that harps and harps and harps on the negative. And how had things are and you now hear about every shooting assault or other bad thing that happens in the whole country because they can. Plus they have to fill so many hours of so called News. It is just overwhelming.
-Then you have politicians that can’t be even a little bit civil. Used to be the sides fought but were polite about it. Not any longer. So the set bad examples.
-And don’t forget the even worse examples that are so called celebrities and stars and athletes are setting. And nothing happens to them.
-And out entertainment industry has decided that enjoyable films that allow you to forget your cares are not import now we have to have meanings and points and lessons in our Movies and TV shows and such.
So basically things are just out of control. And you cant escape from the mess and the bad news and the stress and you are inconstant touch with everyone and you take your work home with you.
So you look forward to you vacation or your trip to see relatives or whatever. You pay a large fee for bad service and worse seating and then things continue to go wrong.
There is very little worse then things going wrong when you are supposed to be having an enjoyable time. You expect +90 levels of enjoyment and you get -75 level of something going wrong. And you are paying for the privilege…. So this just magnifies the issues.

So frankly I am surprised it doesn’t happen more.

American is extending its ban on alcohol sales in economy through Sept 13 (current end of federal mask rule):

https://thepointsguy.com/news/american-airlines-alcohol-ban/

@Mike Beebe
If you think you’ve heard the worst about SouthWest, check out the story of what one pilot did, recently, while watching porn in the cockpit. It didn’t involve passengers, just his female colleague; but I hate to think of my life in the hands of such an idiot.
We use SW a lot because it flies frequently between Oakland and Portland, where our daughter lives. I believe their no reserved seats policy promotes bad behavior. The earlier passengers grab the forward most seats, forcing later ones to push and trip past, while the early birds arrange their often oversized bags in the bins. I don’t buy SW’s rationale that boarding is faster their way.
All that being said, I think posters are pointing at just one aspect of the unraveling of the social fabric of America.

So Southwest and American have cut off the booze - that could make a difference with some passengers. Others may have already imbibed before reaching the airport, or hit the bar before boarding, maybe several times.

If the violent trend continues, imagine airport security doing Blood Alcohol Content tests, in addition to scanning footwear and carryon bags. And those 3 oz. gels and liquids? Make sure they’re shampoo, toothpaste, or contact lens solution - not shots of vodka, whiskey, whisky, or moonshine!

There are probably a variety of explanations for behaviour of this type, and alcohol and a sense-of-entitlement are likely among them. This seems like a continuation of the type of thing that has occurred many times in retail stores and other locations. Here's one good example from earlier this year - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1cwdzW6aDs . Some people seem to think that it's their "constitutional right" to do as they please, and that health rules that everybody else has to obey don't apply to them. Thank goodness the incident in this video didn't occur at 30,000 feet! The inconsiderate moron in the video will probably face at least a hefty fine when he's up before a Judge.

I have been told by people in the travel industry that there is a different population flying and going on vacation right now. Hotels too are experiencing epic rudeness, lack of patience and aggressiveness from their guests. This is especially a problem in resort areas where there's a labor shortage and destinations have not yet opened to full capacity.

Mary and I visited Virginia Beach and the Outer Banks last week. The good news is it was 100% normal as far as being able to visit museums, shops, Busch Gardens, Colonial Williamsburg, restaurants, and so forth. I mean, like normal! It was an amazing trip. The percentage of mask-wearers was very low. (And yes, COVID cases continue to decrease.)

We had an incident in a restaurant where a group of four came in being very loud and absolutely fitting the negative ugly American stereotype. Dropping the f-bomb, other foul language, and just being loud and stupid. During the middle of our meal we picked up our dishes and everything and moved to another table. The waitress was very accommodating and apologized, wishing she could do something about it. She was a college kid and we left her a nice tip. She also said it's been "hard" since the crowds have returned and COVID restrictions lifted, but she needs the money.

Increasingly, people seem to lack self-awareness and utterly aware that other people exist other than as a nuisance. I've noticed this in school as well, where more students simply a lack basic respect for others. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

As for booze, I don't know, but maybe a 2-drink maximum? I wonder about alcoholics that really need a drink to be stable.

Reading and hearing the term “Revenge Tourism” seemed like a bizarre, incomprehensible way to describe the view that many people would have when making trips this year. Yet that’s now being reported as a “thing.” Maybe the odd term “revenge” is accurate for a lot of tourists unfortunately showing up in places and on transportation - but flight attendants, waitresses, and other staff didn’t cause the pandemic, and certainly don’t deserve abuse. Have people always been this mean and nasty, or is news coverage of incidents just more widespread now?

Have people always been this mean and nasty, or is news coverage of incidents just more widespread now?

No, I don't think they have. Except for the odd person who drank too much and became belligerent, people (for the most part) used to behave like human beings instead of wild animals on planes, trains, and in automobiles. Now, it appears to be no holds barred and, in my opinion, is absolutely disgusting.

Rosalyn, my sense is that the disturbing attitudes already existed, and role models became highly placed as a result of that. This unpleasantness has been brewing for a while. And with social media, the thugs are now getting their criminal 15 minutes of fame.

Well, I never had such a horrible experience, but I truly believe if you buy a ticket, you have to accept and follow all the rules, respect airline employees, and be polite to each other. So, I could say that probably partially it could be covid anxiety, but on the other hand, if you are a good-mannered person, then even in such a horrible time you remain the same. So, probably it just a general decline in civility in society, as you say.

Alejandro, I agree with you, but I've heard other opinions. An example is people behaving badly at football games. Their attitude is they bought the ticket and anything else is nobody's business. I don't understand this mindset but it's more common than you think.

There are other societal reasons but I'll let that go.

So the latest instance, reported on the Saturday evening news, was an off-duty Delta flight attendant, who created a disturbance, and the pilot called for “all strong men” onboard to come to the front of the plane, to subdue the Delta employee. Diverted to a Oklahoma City, the employee was taken into custody. These are troubling times on planes.

Boarding was largely complete on a Delta flight I was on out of Atlanta a week or two ago when the power went out on the plane briefly (maybe 2 seconds). When it came back on, a woman came stomping up the aisle and exited the aircraft through the main door. The flight attendant called after her, "Maam!" She shouted back, "This is ridiculous!" and kept stomping down the jet bridge. She never came back. Not sure if it was related to the brief power outage or something else (like mask stuff) at the back of the plane where she started, but that was the first time I had experienced something like that.

Cyn brought up the latest incident — I admit to finding it mind-boggling that the trouble maker in this case — who resulted in the Atlanta-bound flight being landed in OKC— is (was! I assume) an off-duty Delta flight attendant!!!

I mean, someone who has been dealing with this for months now causes such difficulties *for his colleagues ??!! *

Let's all hope the TSA continues doing its job of keeping weapons off planes.

The pilot asked for "all strong men" to report to the front. I'm far from the strongest guy but would admit having to turn in my man card if I didn't heed the call. It would be hard to look my wife in the eye if I didn't. Her father was a coal miner and their family has no tolerance for weakness or cowardice. That's really the ultimate man test.

“Let's all hope the TSA continues doing its job of keeping weapons off planes.”

Omg Sempre Italia, you are so right.

Susan, believe me when I say it gives me no pleasure to even think it, but how could I not?

Kim, in the incident in OKC I think the person was suffering a mental break or that something more was going on; you can hear the high pitched screaming in the video that is clearly not just someone being angry about something like masks. I would imagine that one will be health (physical or mental) related.