Decision-making algorithm: Car vs Public Transit

The most obvious variables are total cost and (perceived) convenience of either option, including time savings. Those are the biggest tradeoffs when choosing one mode over another. Where are these weights in your variables derived from?

I don't think that adding in "convenience" helps. That's because most people have no idea about things like parking in Europe, which is not like parking in the USA.

Duration of trip?
Longer trip favours car hire?

Cars come in handy when trying to get to places poorly (or not at all served) by public transit - typically out-of-the-way or rural areas which are easier and faster to access by car, especially if you're trip-linking several such villages in a day trip. Parking in those areas is usually not an issue at all. I was trying to decide this very thing when planning a trip to Romania. When your vacation is a fixed amount of days, sometimes even renting a car for 1-2 days (from some base) makes sense to access areas you wouldn't otherwise.

I don't see why a longer trip favors a car hire. There is a base cost which is amortized over the trip. But the compensatory factor is that in longer trips, you will be in specific places for longer (I would think).

I'll see if I can work that in.

As to Agnes' rural vs city, I do have a factor for that.

Car vs public transport is not a binary choice. The best can be a combination, use public transport but if you want to go somewhere that is not easy to get to by public transport, rent a car for a day or two.

I recommend making the tour location a larger weighting.

@Elizabeth: Can you specify values, or change it as you are thinking?

For Eastern-Eastern Europe (eastward of Poland), the algorithm can be significantly simplified:
1. Public transit option available?
(Y) take it;
(N) see 2.
2. is rideshare/car share option available for the route?
(Y) take it
(N) consider renting a car
:-)

What is the weight for personal preference?

No weight for personal preference. That's the point of an algorithm. It's supposed to use objective thinking. And it's supposed to get around personal preference by this approach. Most people, IMHO, who say "I plan on renting a car" have no idea about the many differences between the European and USA situations. Put another way, if you want to rent a car, please don't waste your time on this algorithm.

As long as I’m not staying in large cities, and am visiting many small towns, a rental car always wins. I don’t like the wasted time waiting for a bus or train. Staying in large cities or going between large cities, then I’ll use public transportation. There are way too many out of the way, small sites, not served by public transportation. Parking can be a hassle in some places, in some countries, but the less touristy the location, the easier it is to park.

I understand the economy of using a car to get from point A to B, and the larger the group, maybe the economy is greater. But where I see many people fall down in logic is that they have the fantasy of a road trip, puttering along stopping at tons of interesting sights, getting to know the "locals". However, the reality is they allow 4 hours for a drive from Venice to Rome, then pick up 3-4 ZTL tickets within a year and cry Scam".

A car is good if needed. I have used one in Ireland, Cornwall, Probably would in Tuscany, likely will in Portugal in February; but each choice is very strategic and almost a last resort.

Here is a simple(r) decision-making algorithm......at least for me.....

Never rent a car in Europe
(except in Iceland).

Let me add to Blue's list of exceptions to never renting a car in Europe lol!:

(Except for Northern Spain)
(Except for Aragon)
(Except for Extremadura)
(Except for the Pyrenees)
(Except for Sicily)
(Except for the Peloponnese)
(Except for Languedoc)
(Except for Norway's Fjord Country)
(Except for Masurian Lakes District)
(Except for Silesia)
(Except for Sudenten Mountains)
(Except for Loire Valley)
(Exce...

haha just teasing (but not really) :-)

Simpler Algorithm:

Staying only in large cities: NEVER RENT

Staying only small towns o country ALWAYS RENT. If day tripping from country location to large city, drive and park outside city walls.

Mix of large and small towns/country: RENT FOR THE DAYS YOU NEED WHEN OUTSIDE LARGE CITY. PREFERABLY LEAVE THE LARGE CITIES AT THE START OR END OF VACATION.

If large city stay is in between country/small town stays where you need a car: WHILE VISITING THE CITY FIND A REASONABLY CENTRAL CAR FRIENDLY HOTEL WITH PARKING WHERE YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR CAR PARKED DURING YOUR STAY IN THE CITY.

No need for fancy math.

Except for France outside of Paris(because my husband thought that was easy-he hates driving in UK) and Ireland(because public transportation is very limited there).

My first reaction: are price and time not key components in the car vs public transit decision. That’s why Rome2Rio has been a useful tool, in my own experience. Can these factors be built into the algorithm?

Interesting algorithm, Paul -- especially for first-time-in-Europe travelers. Even if it just gets people to think about the pros and cons of driving or trains or planes -- and the possiblity of combining methods within the same trip.

As we all know, there are jobs the computers are very good at, and there are jobs humans are very good at. (Yes, I have read Knuth's "Algorithms ... " text.) This particular scheme only provides a guideline data point. It would need to be augmented by other factors.

For example, a typical "first trip to Italy", meaning Venice, Florence, Rome, and a later-in-life trip to Tuscany and the lake district would yield the same algorithm number. But we know that a car rental is insane for the first example, and a very reasonable decision for the latter example.

An interesting attempt to systematically approach a possible complicated decision. Are you thinking about building an app?

Driving is a personal choice and subjective factors have to be considered because they are important. For instance, driving can be negative on the driver in regards to fatigue and the ability to enjoy the scenery along the way. There are traffic jams, potential accidents, car breakdowns, road construction, losing time because you took a wrong turn on a roundabout (been there, down that), etc. You also have to factor in if multiple countries are planned on a trip.

I think new travelers to Europe need to decide specifically where and what they want to see. From there it is an important question, how do I get there and not waste time? IMO wasting time on a trip is painful. When I traveled to Alsace and Dordogne Valley I rented a car because to enjoy all the small villages of each area, public transportation is quite cumbersome or almost non-existent. I compare that to being able to explore almost all of Germany by train only.

Lastly, cost is an issue. The time of year, supply and demand, rental/drop off locations are also factors in the costs. I applaud your attempt at this approach, but IMO this decision has too many subjective factors to decide on such an objective approach.

As a solo traveler my algorithm is easy. Is there public transport to where I want to go? Y - then take it, N - rent a car.

We have traveled to most of the countries in Europe and 78 in all.
I would not rent a car in Italy. I drove there in my own vehicle in the 80s, but not today.

Your algorithm is nice. I think considering the country is huge. Germans tend to obey the traffic laws, as do the British, Italians not so much.

Car rental is great for visiting small cities and towns. We have rented in Britain and since British drivers are generally very polite and patient, we did very well there, despite driving on the left.

Yes, if driving on the left, best to rent an automatic. Also, get a Nav system, finding your way in countries where the city streets were not laid out in a pattern is problematic.

Everyone thinking about renting a car in Europe should read these posts-great job of pointing out the many factors that need to be considered. I wish the Webmaster would bundle together certain posts, like this one and the one for the poster who was hesitant to book a RS tour to England and Allan's post about planning, to help novice travelers to Europe.

The one thing that is omitted is that by renting a car, when things go wrong, they can go very very wrong. Train strikes suck, but I’d rather have that than dealing with a stolen car abroad. An auto accident would suck, an auto accident with injuries in a foreign country where you don’t know the legal code would suck one million times more.

I'm a bit surprised to learn Nav rental is still a thing - why not stick to good ole Waze, Yandex maps, and Google maps?

Thanks all for your thoughts. No, this is not going to be an app. Rather this attempts, crudely, to weight factors which many ignore.

We been to Europe now many times, and 5 trips since 2011. We rented a car in 2011, as we had 5 travelers, and were going to places in SE Europe (Croatia) which are less-well served with public transportation. In 2017, we did rent a car for a short time while we visited the Finisterre Department in Bretagne. Public transit there is less good than in many other areas. While we sometimes have been at a loss on our trips for transportation, we usually have found a solution which did not involve renting a car.

My view is that Americans, being from a car culture, reflexively consider that this is the best approach. Many many posts on RS suggest that there are downsides. Between the rip-offs, poor service at rental agencies, traffic tickets which come months after the return, the lack of knowledge of driving customs in other countries, and lack of knowledge of special aspects of other places (ZTL zones in Italy), cars have plenty of issues which are not immediately apparent to traveler.

Paul, in response to your request, for factor about tour location, I'd say:
Mostly city (-5), City/County (0), Country (5)

Interesting discussion! I'm actually the opposite with children - I prefer public transport with kids instead of trying to drive in an unfamiliar place with them fighting in the backseat. Also on trains there are bathrooms, etc.

Paul,

This decision making algorithm doesn't cover factors that I normally use when considering car rental. I tend to rent cars on a strategic basis, either because pubic transportation to the area I want to visit is infrequent or cumbersome, or the timing of public transit doesn't fit well with my planned Itinerary. There's also the aspect of car rental for solo drivers, as it's often not the most cost effective method for one person.

I use trains as much as possible, especially fast trains as that's the quickest and most efficient method to get from point A to point B, and I can relax and enjoy the scenery.

Unless it's a city break I will rent a car every time simply because I prefer driving. I prefer the spontaniety and freedom it offers, I have a thing about needing to be in control (hence I hate flying, rollercoasters etc) and I don't have to be in close proximity to people I don't want to be.

If large city stay is in between country/small town stays where you need a car: WHILE VISITING THE CITY FIND A REASONABLY CENTRAL CAR FRIENDLY HOTEL WITH PARKING WHERE YOU CAN LEAVE YOUR CAR PARKED DURING YOUR STAY IN THE CITY.

And also know where the daytime park-and-ride lot options are. I'm a big fan of those on multi-stop trips and make good use of them when it would be insane to drive in the center of town.

I’ll echo the rural/city comparison. I nearly always base in villages or small towns, it’s just more practical and less time consuming for me to drive. And I like driving in Europe, most of it anyway. Is there a bigger danger using a GPS in Europe than there is using one in America?

Read the intro & first chapter of Sidney Siegel's textbook "Non-Parametric Statistics" and you will see why your algorithm and all suggested modifications are nonsense..

You are posing a qualitative question and a bad quantitative answer . Instead, do it this way: #1: cites or country side? Cities: no car. Countryside probably a car, subject to #2: #2: how many people? country side + 2-4 people, car, hands down. One or more than 4, do the math on costs If #1 is cites, never rent a car.

Driver age is irrelevant (unless the rental company has an age limit). Driver competence matters.. If the driver is competent, go with it.

This has nothing to do with statistics. I'm a statistician, and I can make that statement without fear of contradiction.

This is an algorithm. That is like a computer program, crude and approximate as it is.

Non-parametric statistics have to do with decision-making in a situation with error (on the data) and lack of normality.

Glad I could clear that up.

And the issue of driver age has come up, and does matter in a number of countries. There are ceilings on age.

I agree that car v PT is not binary especially if the trip is a mix of cities and not cities. The only place I have not rented a car was Holland it's the only time everything we wanted to do was accessible using some form of PT.

To me cost is a factor and time is as well. If it takes me 2 hours to drive or 4 hours on a train when I only have 14 days boots on the ground those 4 hours can add up.

To me cost is a factor and time is as well. If it takes me 2 hours to drive or 4 hours on a train when I only have 14 days boots on the ground those 4 hours can add up.

That's a good example. I've thought about that. The 2 hour drive is often a huge exaggeration, IMHO. You need to find the road (sometimes that's more difficult than you think). You need to learn the local driving customs. Unless you have parking at your hotel, you need to find parking, and then transition from parking to local transportation.

It's like driving vs flying in the USA. Flying is always faster. Except you need to figure in airport access time, car drop-off time, TSA screening, recommended/required pre-flight arrival, time at destination to leave airplane and airport, and so on. These can easily add 4-5 hours to a 1 hour flight.

One factor in car rental that I was reminded of on my September trip was how danged long it can take to just get the darned car!!!

After arriving in Lorient by train and walking the 5 minutes to the car rental concession, I must have waited 45 minutes to an hour for the sole attendant to help the man he was helping when I arrived (the attendant could not get his reservation right in the computer and had to call his HQ or something, it was very long and involved); the fellow then after him; and the “fast” drop-off guy before me (the attendant left the concession and made me step outside too while he went to look at the car).

Then when I finally did get my turn, it almost seemed like he was typing in my reservation info from scratch rather than pulling up a dossier on his screen.

I could not BELIEVE how long it took !’

One factor in car rental that I was reminded of on my September trip was how danged long it can take to just get the darned car!!!

And also there are lunch closings in many countries that are not considered. Plus the "service culture" in many countries is quite different than in the USA. In some, they really don't seem to care much about tourists. When we rented from Enterprise, they seemed to have imported the USA "we'll pick you up" service culture, and it was a pleasure dealing with the start and finish offices. In other cases, there was a lower level of service.

All in all 25 trips to Europe, including this last one in Oct, never rented a car, always public transportation or the rare taxi...simply not an option.

The 2 hour drive is often a huge exaggeration, IMHO. You need to find the road (sometimes that's more difficult than you think).

I have to disagree with the "huge exaggeration" having driven all over Italy and France. And maybe it's because again driving out of the major cities in Italy and France the train systems leaves a lot to be desired.

I do agree with the time it takes to get the car is annoying long BUT it's only at the pick up point not every time I drive somewhere

I would reverse the weights on D. Manual Transmission. Auto tx should be a + and manual should be a negative. Every manual (standard) is a little different. And it takes some time to figure out exactly when to clutch, what gear one should be driving in and one has to be pretty good at up hill start offs. Especially on the polished stone roads. Saw many a rental tourist lose it going up hill, front wheel drive manual. An Auto takes care of most of this. Somewhere in this should be the size of the car available. The smaller the car, the more it is on the plus side. We don't go to Europe to have a "Driver's" experience. And when we do want a "driver's" experience, we rent a motorcycle: Parking is free, the roads then become, "oh so less," narrow, and according to my reading of ZTLs, motorcycles are immune. :) i know for a fact that we went through many ZTLs in Italy. No tickets. Rick S. presents something of a false reality, when he suggests renting a car. He's traveled Europe more than you or I could imagine. And in doing so, has forgotten all the little bits of the learning curve. We enjoy Public Transportation in Europe as a contrast to what is available in the US. Cars are mostly, out of the question. :)

I'd hold that taking a proper German performance sedan on the autobahn is indeed a great driving experience for the right people

"I've thought about that. The 2 hour drive is often a huge exaggeration, IMHO." - Paul, you can apply the same logic to using trains, in relation to how close your accommodation is to using publc transport and how long it takes to reach. A one hour train ride might turn into two hours travel with a long walk or bus ride beforehand, and with timetables to keep there is usually a waiting period.

Mine would be: Public transportation available to cover itinerary Y(-3) N(20)

Sometimes renting a car is the only reasonable option to visit what you want to see.

It’s an easy decision for me. Always hire a car unless I am on a short city break. I tend to stay in smaller places and don’t city hop.

Another factor in your logarithm could be are you returning the car to the same place or is it a one way drop?

Cost isn’t a factor for me but the convenience of having a car is paramount, even though most of Europe drives on the “wrong” side of the road, it has never been an issue.

Great thread! Paul, thanks for showing me what an algorithm is. I've never understood how Google decides what ads to show me, and now I do! ;-)

I agree that many Americans default to car rental because that's how most of us get around here, and indeed many Americans are intimidated by buses and trains because of inexperience. European public transport is much more comprehensive and convenient than most of us are used to, and I use it in and between cities. But I enjoy driving (at least on the right) and those uncrowded toll highways the Europeans do so well.

One point no one made above (that I noticed anyway) -- train and bus schedules seldom fit our preferences, which can equal a delay factor similar to the time cost of finding the road, getting on it, getting lost, parking, etc. as others described. Both strategies have built in inefficiencies along with their virtues.

But thanks for trying to quantify the decision process. I think it's a very worthwhile exercise, and of course some will put higher or lower values on particular variables.

I am a train person, having not driven a car for over 20 years now. There are a few points that should be added in.

• Will it be vacation time or a major holiday where you want to drive? If so, add on multiple hours to your drive as you may be stuck in traffic jams for hours. German autobahns are famous for this. Same thing for winter driving.
• Are your destinations accessed with fast trains? Like Frankfurt to Paris? If so, the train will get you there in 3-4 hours compared to at least 8 hours by car.
• With kids, the train is almost always better. They can walk around, use the WC, visit the dining car and not be stuck in a car seat.
• Does the person driving want to drink? Go wine tasting, have a beer with lunch? If so, then do not rent a car.
• Traveling through scenic areas? The driver will not be able to share the lovely views.
• Cost of fuel. This is considerably higher than in the US and should be figured into your costs.

Taking a train with young children is so much easier than driving them in a car. So much easier. You’ve weighted those points incorrectly.

IN regard to this comment:
-----No weight for personal preference. That's the point of an algorithm. It's supposed to use objective thinking.

The weights are ALL based on personal preference. There is nothing objective about this scheme. Maybe I prefer to drive in the city v the country. If so, I would give a greater weight to city and a lesser weight to country driving, which is opposite of yor weighting.

Add to that my preference for going over the speed limit and it is obvious: I should be renting an open-wheel Formula 1 race car.

And that's why, in spite of my preferences, I take the train.

@Becky: Re Personal preference

To decide on a train vs car, you could say "I prefer to drive - I'll rent a car" That's personal preference

The algorithm is designed (not well, I admit, with flaws to be sure) to get the user to consider things other than simple preference. It's also designed to remind the user that issues are out there - speed limits should be obeyed (I seldom obey them in the USA).

In that sense, personal preference is not considered. The algorithm is designed to take the components of your trip into account.

Hi Paul,
I think this is a great tool for helping make up your mind. I just ran through it for my last trips and it was pretty accurate about how I felt!
Two thoughts from my own experiences though. For # in party, should it change if you are over 5 or 6? Then you need to try to find a van, or get two cars. And with age of the child, I haven't had to do this for a while, but how easy is it to get car seats at rental places these days. It was frequently difficult when my kids were young.