Curious about Cost

Would you swap a $80 12 hour train ride for a $200 4 hour direct transfer?

Yes, definately. Vacation time is limited, if I can get there quicker within a reasonable increase in cost, I will. This was especially true when I lived in Germany... when you start your trip after work on Friday and you need to be back at work on Monday, you don't want to spend all your time getting to the destination

Would you find any value in a $300/night hotel; no matter what hotel it was? If it includes a wellness area, yes. Especially in the Alps, where a sauna treatment to recover from a long day of skiing or hiking makes a HUGE difference in your recovery for the next day.

I suspect that most people are somewhere in the middle, near a typical bell curve. I am all about saving where it makes sense, but as I posted in another thread, I will surely overpay for airline tickets because it's important to us which seats we get. I will not pay for first or business class, but I want to be in that first row behind business and for an 8-10 hour flight, it is worth a couple hundred bucks. Mainly just so my husband won't complain the whole time. :D
I will happily shell out a few hundred for a restaurant that's unique, highly rated and that I won't get back to again, but the next few days will probably be lower end of the spectrum.
Yes, I paid $300 a night for two nights before the tour at the hotel in Paris, but our room window opened to Eiffel and we watched it twinkle while laying in bed. I don't miss that $600 but I'll always remember the experience. (Ask me again when I'm ready to retire.)

No, I probably wouldn't buy box seats but I would try to get as close as I can to the box. I'd never take a suit!
We live beneath our means day-in, day-out, so when I go on vacation, I'm going to splurge to some extent. It's such an individual decision. I would never buy $500 shoes, ever, but I don't begrudge anyone who loves shoes from doing so if they're able to still take care of their obligations. And I wouldn't go into debt to do any of the above!

Having the luxury of the long European holidays and loving sitting on a train, I wouldn't consider the 12-hour train ride as a waste of time. The decision would depend on the departure and arrival hours.
With flying, I don't go for the cheapest flight if I doubt the reliability and service, especially when it comes to connections and baggage handling.
For me hotels are for sleeping, washing and breakfast. I've had enough cheap hotels in my life to appreciate a larger room, a reliable hot water supply and plenty of good coffee in the morning, but all the other luxuries are wasted on me. I'm out after breakfast and don't return until late afternoon. Friendly and helpful people at the reception are more important to me than a nice view.

I don't often consider money as the ruling factor in my travels, lucky to have worked in a good job to be able to travel comfortably now that I am retired. Of course this doesn’t apply to everyone, you should walk in your own shoes.

I think taking an RS tour, as living in the high life. Not meant in a derogatory manner, you get what you pay for, a guide, transportation, skip the line tickets, 1/2 your meals etc… Many cannot afford this, so working in your budget will give you a great vacation too. You wont get the extras like you do on a tour, but do you want all the frills? I personally could have excluded a few activities and cut the cost down on the tour, example, mask making demo, walk in Harlem by a 18 year old girl talking about bicycle theft for an hour, canal boat cruise and the Red Light District walk. Just to name a few. Thats just me, would have rather gone to a museum.

A 12 hour train ride and a 4 hour flight? A 4 hour flight equals 2 hours at airport before departure, so 6 hours. Still beats 12 hours on a train.

I don't mind spending $$$ on a hotel if it is in a location that works for me. Its all about location for me.

I am also in the middle. I will spend $$$ for a great hotel every now and again but am just as comfortable in a B&B as long as it has a private bath. Depends on location. I generally mix it up when I am in Europe.
I much prefer train travel to air travel so unless I have just a limited time to travel I will take the train but would try to break up the time on the train by staying in a spot along the way for 1-2 nights.

My time is valuable. I'm not going to penny-pinch it to save $120 and spend 8 hours more on the slow train. That's an entire day lost. Is it a night train? Yeah, no thanks. Getting a decent night of sleep is also important to me when traveling. Maybe others are lulled to sleep by a rocking train, but I am not one of those people. Would I find any value in a $300/night hotel? Depends what the circumstances are. Is it the middle of summer and that $300 hotel is the only place with A/C? Is the $300 hotel right in the center of where I really want to be for easy access to all the things I want to spend my time seeing while the $80 hotels are all out near the airport or 5 transit zones away so each day I will be spending an hour or more in transit and having to worry about how crowded that transit will be during rush hours? I'll sit in the balcony, but I'm not going to waste my daytime hours at a matinee. At home, sure. While traveling - nope. I am there to see as much as I can during the day and going to the theater in the middle of the afternoon is going to cut into that time. I'll pay the difference between matinee and evening performances and not feel guilty about it - and although I always pack 1 outfit that is dressy enough to not feel out of place at a nice restaurant, club or theater, I certainly am not stuffing a ball gown into my carry-on. Besides, I have seen plenty of people show up for evening theater, opera and dance performances roll in wearing jeans and hoodies - so I'll stick to something somewhat dressy, but still versatile.

I prefer saving money where I can but I also don't think there is any shame in swapping back and forth between cheap budget travel and fancier, more costly travel options. Just because one might consistently stay in cheap hotels and nuke a bowl of instant ramen on a nightly basis for dinner when traveling does not give them more street cred or make them better travelers. I've had plenty of times in the past where I have gone from staying in some really cheap hostel bed (sleeping in a bunk-bedded dormitory with up to 19 other hostelers) and then moved on to the next city where I would raise eyebrows at the front desk of some swanky hotel when I would show up, plunk down my beat up backpack and tell them I had a reservation.

Now I am off to plan my next trip where, ironically, I will be using up an airline credit before it expires by flying first class (something I rarely do), but once there I will be staying for 5 nights in a 4 share hostel room that is costing me just $30 a night and includes a full breakfast. Full breakfast means I will likely cheap out and skip lunch by filling up on the free breakfast food every morning, but will make up for it by blowing my entire day's food allowance on food and alcohol at some very nice James Beard Award/Michelin Starred restaurants.

Last fall we were in Munich during Oktoberfest. Hotels triple or more their standard rates during the fest, so we knew it would be pricey. While we weren't going expressly for the fest, it was hard to think of being in Germany and not go. So, in looking at the places available (booking in March, mind you) we decided that a nice place going for €330/night was a better value than a hole that normally went for €80 jacked up triple. We saved later by spending far less than €400 total for 6 nights in Alsace later in the trip. And the places we stayed were fantastic.

We also rented a car in Germany and dropped it in France. (The Horror!) it truly wasn't that expensive and it allowed us to see what we wanted, when we wanted without dealing with train schedules.

If I have weeks, I'm more likely to spend less than if I have only several days.

Years ago I looked into a long train journey from Paris to Rome.. but it was the high PRICE that turned me off.. it was cheaper( as well as faster ) to fly.. but I am guessing that is not really the point of your thread.

We do not go to Europe for one week.. we try to visit for at least 4 weeks at a time.. so yes.. we definitely cheap out in some things.

I do not stay in large American style chain hotels with bell boys, etc..

Clean, cheap and central.. I do make sure I pay what I need to to get my basics,, which are a/c and a mini fridge in room, but this keeps our hotel budget between 80-120 euros average .. fact is I could probably afford to pay more.. but why?

We occasionally will splurge on a meal. .but I honestly can't say spending 200 euros for dinner in Paris made it more memorable then the 75 euros we spend on a beach side table on the beach in a small Spanish town..

We do not pay extra for "view" rooms. Rooms are for sleeping and changing in.. but a budget-moderate style hotel in an excellent location is worth more to us then a fancier hotel in a less desirable area.

We do not fly first class.. I have twice before, once by upgrade, and once full fare ( after my mother died I decided to take a solo trip to Paris and I totally treated myself.. partly to recover from a very intense year of caretaking for my mom and three kids!) Its great.. love first class.. but sorry. I will never pay thousands more for it.. I now look for good deals in premium economy...

We will always choose the trains in Europe where possible not for cost but for mode. We simply despise flying. Not afraid, mind you, but are fed up with the process, something to be endured only to go to the U.S. or maybe Sicily.

I try to keep our lodging cost on average at Euro 100.00 per night, and then feel we can spend more freely on tours, experiences, some nice dinners and wine. We often eat in at night when we rent an apartment, partly to save money, but also because at some level you get sick of eating in restaurants every blessed night! Occasionally we splurge, i.e., 3 nights in Paris at a three-star coming up in December, Christmas at a half-pension (great food!) resort in the Dolomites. Also really splurged for a James Beard Foundation dinner in Milano recently, but what an experience!

i would seldom bring special clothes for one event because I am committed to packing light.

So, not always low-cost, not always a time-for-money trade off, but a balancing act between what's fun, splurge-worthy, and practical. No more Europe-on-5-dollars-a-day (yes I did that in 1972) or whatever today's equivalent is.

Interesting question. I suspect it will vary depending upon time, need, value, and importance. I have had the unique experience of having the best loge seats (right above and one loge over from the emperor's loge) at la Scala for an opera--once in a lifetime experience which more than justified the cost. It was the beginning of a trip and we brought leave-behind clothing that we wore to the opera. (On a side note, We have done that several times, but will not in the future. We travel light and don't have the luxury of bringing dress clothes. Most professional musicians I have asked, have indicated the don't care what I wear, they are happy to have an enthusiastic audience. I have come to the conclusion that I don't need to be dressed up to enjoy the opera/theater/symphony, and We are clean and presentable enough for most reasonable observers to recognize we are traveling.) We have stayed in a palace fronting the main canal in Venice--again, a worthwhile expense. But, we only do the economy plus upgrades--business class isn't worth it unless you get a good deal. We have learned to pay a bit more for first class train tickets if we are flying into Europe and connecting by train. We generally pay the few euros extra to have seat reservations. This past trip (am at CDG writing this), we had reserved seats on a 15 Sep Linz -Munich train that was almost exclusively "refugees" / economic migrants and were delayed at Salzburg for about four hours and eventually had everyone de-train and westerners allowed to rebound and continue to Munich. Also had several train legs that were quite crowded and were very happy to be able to have seats. We have been on trains in Italy that were so crowded that we were happy to have a spot on the ground, in the baggage car, to sit. I am sure someone more articulate can speak to the cost versus value issue--and, sometimes, it is a true blessing to be in a position to pull out your credit card to resolve problems. We eat the breakfast when provided, share a small lunch or picnic as we tour, and enjoy a good meal and adult beverages in the evening--but nothing extraordinary. We may have one or two dinners that are expensive but they are for special occasions.

Definitely no closet 4 seasons traveler here, but I do look for value and not just cost. I will pay more for a hotel to have the location I want, but not to have extra luxuries. I paid more on my recent trip for the economy comfort seats to see if the value was worth the extra money. It was nice to have the extra inches, but it didn't help me sleep, so I don't know that I would do that again. I will splurge for a nice dinner or special night out on a trip, but this is not something I do every day on my trips. As for your examples, I would pay for the 4 hour transfer, but not the expensive hotel, and unless it was for something very special, I would be happy sitting in the balcony. I am far closer to the back door/basement window type than the 4 season type!

I'm pretty moderate. I'm in my 30s, when I was younger (early 20s) I did the hostel backpacker thing. That's great for younger people, and for some not-young people. But now I am able to value my time and comfort and pay a little more.

That said, I'm not out splurging. I fly coach (but pay to choose a seat if that's required). I rarely eat at fancy places. I seek out nice, moderate restaurants, and often rent apartments so I can eat breakfast and occasionally cook dinners in my apartment instead of going out. I do picnics fairly often, but will spend 50E on a nice dinner later if there's a reason.

As for hotels, $300 is a bit much. I'd pay it if it were a very expensive city and there was nothing else comfortable and in a good location for cheaper. But I keep it under 200 in general. I pay for location, not luxury amenities.

The transfer vs train - It depends. On a long trip, I can spare 12 hours and if it's a comfortable train it might be fun. But on a week or 2 break, I'd pay to maximize my time. Or just go somewhere closer

I will pay for high entry fees into sights, museum passes if they save time, and skip-the-line tours in crowded sights. Those sights are why I'm in Europe, I'm not going to skimp and miss them.

I don't bring formalwear. Opera isn't my big thing, I'd probably go for cheap seats or not go. But if I loved opera I'd splurge for something I loved.

I'm very cheap about shopping. I come home with my photos and a few souvenirs worth under 100E for the whole trip.

To me it's about picking and choosing what will make your trip the best. Your time has value, and in order to do what you came for you will have to pay a bit. But not everything is worth it.

For me, time is very valuable but luxury is virtually worthless.

A few hundred dollars more for a direct flight to save at least a four-hour transfer each way? Yes, it's worth it for me.

An extra hundred dollars a night to have an en suite rather than share a bathroom down the hall? No, I don't mind a shared bathroom.

A hundred more for stars in my hotel, which count hotel services like bell hop, concierge and a spa? No, I don't need those services.

An extra hundred for a meal I can brag about on Facebook? No, decent local food at a normal price is fine.

Interesting question James. Its always a trade-off between time/comfort and money. With age and experience, that balance point has shifted for me to time being more valuable than money, while meeting my (and wife's) comfort level. I did the backpack/railpass/hostel thing when I was younger and on my own, but now the RS tour style meets our needs. I think when I was younger, it seemed to me that there were only two levels of travel: cheap and luxury. What RS did was show that there was a big middle range where you could and should find your place.

We always fly economy, but pay more for flights with better connections. Trade-off.

It all depends who I am traveling with. If I’m traveling solo, I’m cheap. That being said, when it comes to air fare, I will splurge on premium economy. I’ll also pay extra for a direct flight as opposed to a 2-4 hour layover. I have also taken an 8 hour train ride from London to Inverness, because train fare was much cheaper than air fare. As others have said rooms are for sleeping and getting ready for the day. I don’t mind sharing a common bathroom. I don’t splurge on meals that much. I’m content stopping in the local grocery store to get the makings for a little picnic or eating a little pub grub. I also always make sure I have the funds to stop in the local pub for a few(many) pints.

Now, If I’m traveling with my wife all bets are off.

My annual 2 weeks in Europe is extremely important to my general well-being the remaining 50 weeks of the year, and since I travel solo I don't have anyone else's needs or budgetary restrictions to consider.

In my 5 trips thus far I have learned a few things:

I do just fine in economy airplane seating.

The longest train ride I'll consider is 5 hours, otherwise a $200-ish airplane ticket that'll get me there quickly is a better option.

I know when taking a taxi is the best option for me based on the time of day, where I'm going, if I have luggage, etc, even if I also know how to get there using public transport.

If the price of the best ticket in the house is cheap by my standards, that's the one I'll buy. Example in Prague last May--fancy box seat at the Estates Theatre was $60 US, at the SF Opera it would easily have been $300. Seeing a Mozart opera in the last remaining theatre he conducted in? Priceless.

When I search for hotels I have some criteria--prefer a 24 hour front desk, concierge, A/C, private bathroom and a spacious room with lovely décor in a location that suits my itinerary; conversely, I don't care to use spas, gyms or saunas. I spend a lot of time in that room alone and if it's dreary I wouldn't like that, I find this really affects my mood so I choose carefully. I don't need a $300 room, but a $30 room probably isn't going to cut it, either. I like having my needs attended to, though if I were to travel with a partner at some point might consider an apartment rental.

I asked the question in part raw curiosity and in part because i answer a lot of questions on one country page and wanted to have some guidance on the sort of suggestions would be most relevant. See the "i only use carry-on, Hostels, public transportation" types here are so vocal that i was curious if i was getting the right impression of the subscribers as a whole. Also noticed that the same group can be a little condescending at times and that might be driving some underground. "i dont need to be pampered like so and so does, to have a good time" sort of attitude. But admittedly, that is rare and this is overall and excellent group. Personally i think everyone is right if it suits them and they enjoy it.

There are a lot of interesting comments, but I want to add another perspective which is very important, I think.

A lot of times, spending more money can result in segregating you some of the best experiences and most wonderful people.

If you take a taxi instead of public transportation, you may get there faster and it may be more convenient, but what about the shared experience of being on a bus or metro with local residents?

If you eat in 3 star Michelin restaurants, you'll have a great meal. If you buy take-out groceries and have a picnic in the park, you share that experience with locals.

Renting a room in someone's apartment will give you a chance to get to know a local family. Staying at an upscale hotel will give you the chance to have quick passing conversations with desk clerks and other tourists.

It all depends on which experience matters more to you. On an extended trip, you can maybe do a little of both -- enjoy some luxury some of the time, and immerse yourself in more down-to-earth experiences at other times.

For me personally, I lean toward those immersive experiences, but there are a few things I am willing to splurge on, such as a private bath and an occasional great meal.

Lane, well said. I look at each aspect of a trip and ask myself what I will learn or what lasting memory it has the possibility to create: or less academic, will I have a blast!? It's never about the money. I have spent $300 on an event ticket and I have gone to free events when traveling and both at the end were priceless moments that I would not change for anything. I have stayed in hotels visited by heads of state and primitive accommodations in Bulgaria and each produced a different but desired result. I travel with carry-on most of the time and doing so has not been a life altering event or revelation. Sometimes I need a extra bag for the tux and I am not ashamed of that. If I am pampered and spoiled at a world class level I love it, but I also enjoy sitting in the dirt on a river bank with my fly in the stream.

I won't do 12 hours on any train. I just won't take that trip. I have yet to find a location that I enjoy that doesn't have something else of interest within 4 hours journey. I plan my trips that way.

Back Door, Basement Window, Main Doorbell ........... Red Carpet; all good.

"if I am pampered and spoiled at a world class level I love it, but I also enjoy sitting in the dirt on a river bank with my fly in the stream."

If the stream is in a foreign land and if you had to pay for a licence to fish there after an expensive flight to said foreign land, that also is being pampered and spoiled in a way, even if you do have to sit in the dirt.

Norma, there is a certain wisdom in that statement. But what if I flew economy and the driver's car was one of the smaller C Class Mercedes?

Oh, a Mercedes, eh? I rest my case.

But what if the driver isn't wearing a tie? Then would I be roughing it?

Yes, James, he would be roughing it. Poor beknighted soul.

Norma, you're priceless.

There's only so much money available for my travels and I allocate accordingly. I can spend more say on accommodations, but then cuts must be made in food and/or transportation. It's a budget balancing act. Do I pack a tux? That's a hilarious question with an obvious answer.

Great question, James. I guess I'm a mix of the two extremes you mentioned. I look for good deals (if they still exist) for plane tickets, and hotels as well. That said, I don't care for hostels and I would pay more for a private bathroom. I want to enjoy my vacation as much as possible and sometimes that includes paying extra for things.

I think we all splurge on things that are important to us. For some people that's box seats. For others it's books. In London I'm going to an exhibition of the Chinese artist and political activist Ai Weiwei's work. I love his art but have never seen it in person and if there's an exhibition catalog available, I'm buying it. I don't care if it costs £50 or £100. Books are not only a souvenir but something I can enjoy for years and years to come.

Per Christa's comment: "My annual 2 weeks in Europe is extremely important to my general well-being the remaining 50 weeks of the year..." This is all too true for me. Yes, travel is a luxury, and I feel very lucky to have traveled as much as I have. But also, for me and I'm guessing for a lot of other people here, it's also a psychological necessity. I can't not travel. I haven't been out of the country in 3 years and am so excited to finally start my trip on Monday!

This is a great thread James. First. Please correct the spelling of the title. Not being condescending. It is just a "teacher thing", and is driving me crazy. :)
Box seat? Maybe, but an aisle seat for bad knees is more important for us. Suit? Possibly, but certainly nothing less than a blazer and dress pants. Transport? Would probably choose train over airplane not because of cost but comfort of the seats. Those bad knees again.:)
To your question. I believe that the majority of the people who post on this forum may have adopted the RS philosophy, but that doesn't make all of them budget travelers. A good example are the clothing/shoes recommended on the RS forums. NYDJ is a brand often recommended for jeans, and those are $100-150 a pair. Many of the shoe brands recommended run $100-200 a pair. People buying these travel clothes may then take a RS tour which runs from $200-400 a day per person. I have no problem with any of that, but you need to be honest with yourself about what "budget travel" really looks like.
I agree that sometimes posters can seem condescending towards others who admit their priority is nice hotels or wheeled luggage that they check. Often it is not intentional. Sometimes it has been. (I recall one post a few months ago where a gentleman labeled people who wanted to used wheeled luggage as "fat and lazy".) Frankly I am appalled at how one female poster from Nashville continues to be mocked and flamed, when all she was doing was being honest about her travel priorities.
In the end, anyone who is lucky enough to travel is fortunate. Whether it is about the time or the money, it is not something that everyone can manage to pull off. For many it is a huge sacrifice, but for others it is just a drop in the bucket of their disposable income. For most it is somewhere in between. The point I keep in mind is that all travel styles need to be respected, and we all need to be more honest about ourselves and less judgemental of others. For example, our adult son will drop hundreds of dollars on a meal but will stay in a hostel. On the other hand, we will pick up a doner at a stand and take it to our $300/night room to eat. We all travel happy, but are clear and comfortable about our priorities.
Finally. James. I sincerely appreciate your posts about your "area of expertise". I feel like you make a genuine effort to "listen" to the poster, and respond accordingly. I learn something from each and every one of your posts.

Mom, thanks for the spelling check.

Mom, I started this after i spent a lot of effort trying to direct someone from point A to point B on a train because this is RS and trains is what they do. Finally I broke and suggest, why don't you just hire a driver and pay the 400 euro and get there faster and more comfortably and with a sort of tour on the way. Bingo. That was the needed answer. I didn't go there at first because "private transfers" get flamed here. Not often but i am overly sensitive i guess. I wouldn't dare tell anyone here that i will soon make my second trip to Europe with a tux in my suitcase; because they couldn't balance that against my trips into Bulgaria with nothing more than two nylon fishing trousers and three nylon fishing shirts. Why? they wash easy, dry fast and pack light. You can almost cram them in a lunch bag.

Are you doing well i trust?

James, you know what O. Wilde said about good deeds and punishment right? Kudos to you for persevering until you found the correct answer for those posters. As for the snarks and naysayers? When (and only when) they start paying you for your insight do they have a right to criticism.
Tux or fishing pants? The point is, you know where and when each is appropriate.

No good deed goes unpunished.

James, very interesting thread. I have been reading this forum for a few years now but rarely answer because I find some posters just want to either nitpick, make you feel your opinion is wrong, or just brag. That said, for every person who travels, you will get a different point of view and price point. That is what I love about this forum. My husband and I travel differently depending on if we are alone or with family. For example, when we travel with my sister and husband - she is not a food person, and would never sit at an expensive restaurant wasting time and money. The money we save we spend on private drivers and tour guides. When with a cousin and husband, they like high end restaurants and frequent stops to have coffee/tea with a nice pastry and watch the world go by. No problem for us. We sit, talk and observe. The point of travel for us is to ENJOY ourselves, try different foods, and marvel at the different sights and cultures in this vast world, whether alone or with others. We are rarely disappointed because every place we visit has something new and exciting to offer, even "repeat" cities. As for the original question about cost, when alone, we are right down the middle. We have taken buses, ferries, hydrofoils, trams, taxis, private drivers, rented cars, and trains (have done overnights), prefer B&Bs to expensive hotels, and eat at moderately priced restaurants, it all depends on the city.

P.S. James, have been to Budapest twice. The first time in 2002 when I didn't know about this forum and again in 2014. My last trip was more enjoyable because of your postings and insight, thank you.

James, I just paid about 90 euro for a 12-hour train ride, rather than spend over 200 euro on airfare (when all costs are considered), so your question made me laugh at myself!
I take long trips so I must turn money into time. I can't imagine paying 300 euro (or dollars) for a hotel room for one night, but I will not take a room with a shared bathroom. I also book reservations at the higher "free cancellation" price, just in case.

However, when an adjustment in course needs to be made, I will spend the money (50 euro cab ride on a Sunday from Selinunte to Agrigento rather than backtrack through Castelvetrano, Palermo or Trapani for public transportation).

Traveling in Europe just varies, varies by the individual, what you're willing to cope with, put up with, tolerate, what is within your comfort zone, what the time, financial, geographic constraints are, how well you deal with the weather, and whether you're traveling solo or with others, friends, family, so on. In the past I traveled in Europe always in the summer, now for family reasons I go in May and June. When I travel with family, we compromise, split up if the interests/priorities differ and diverge for the day, then rendezvous at a set time and place. We don't all stick together all the time. Traveling solo in Germany and Austria, I certainly don't require or expect as much.

I stand in the range from budget to moderate, don't stay in American chain hotels. Would I splurge? Yes, an option when it is needed. Splurging on a meal (or an esoteric geographic or history book ) is way more preferable than a pricey, private hotel room. It's all a trade-off. No way am I going to put out 150Euro or $ let alone $300 for a hotel room . I spent 115 Euro max for a single...once in Hamburg since it was necessary time wise. I stay in Pensionen, B&B, and two star hotels almost exclusively. So far the luxury found in those accommodations in Germany, France, Poland, England is adequate, usually more than adequate. I don't need the amenities offered in big hotels, such as 24 hr registration, English speaking staff, A/C, elevator, WiFi connection, English TV programming, The Pension room sometimes didn't even have a small TV, or if it did I couldn't get it to work. Staying in hostels I still do that but sparingly, say for one or two nights, dorm or private...depending. . It depends on the hostel's location mainly, if it's near the train station, good. No more staying hostels located out in the boonies. I did that in the '70s and 80s.

On transportation: I've taken the trams, buses, ferries, used taxis sparingly, no rental cars, no personal drivers or guides, and have flown within Europe. Flying the discount airlines I keep as an option, (depending on the time constraint but normally I'm not paying $200 for flying. Flying from Berlin to Helsinki would be an option on one leg but for the other leg the choice would definitely be the 20 plus hour ferry ride from Germany to Helsinki. Doing a day 9-10 hr train ride is no problem, just hop on , watch the view or sleep, then watch the view, now with a break in between of 30 mins to one hour would help, but it's not necessary, or the 10-12 hour night train.

The night train option is good because you avoid having to transfer. So far practically all the night trains I've taken in the last few years have been punctual in departure and arrival. No problems taking the CNL night trains (and their punctuality.) .. the locals do it, so can I. . You can't say that with day trains, all the more so after my experience and observations on others this past June. On every trip I include one or two night rides to max the time I have over there. I would use a discount ticket or the rail pass for those rides. With railPass I pay only 20 Euro for the seat reservation, less than I would pay for a hostel bed in dorm room

I fly Economy direct going over, which means I have to put up with being squished for the length of the flight. Admittedly, those two times being upgraded by Lufthansa, pure chance, were very nice and made the 10 plus hour direct flight obviously more tolerable.

You pace yourself, the comfort is there. It is what you make it to be, esp when knowing your own pace.

My husband and I tend to be in the middle with a more expensive hotels, meals, or tours. Since the last three trips and the one next year will use miles, that eliminates a big part of the budget for a two week trip.

Last year in Scotland, we stayed with friends for three nights, but then later spend $800 for 2 nights to stay in an authentic castle in a suite. (I really wanted to stay in a castle). When we were in Italy, happily took the Circumvesuvia train to Sorento, then walked a mile to the hotel, but when heading to the airport per fine spending $70 Euro for a private car to save time and stress. we also paid for a private taxi to tour the Amalfi Coast (well worth it). On the last two trips to Italy, one criteria that was non negotiable was a room with a view and a balcony, terrace, or outdoor area. All this was accomplished with RS $$$ recommendations, so while spending a bit more, we weren't over the top with **** hotels. Likewise we enjoy wine and good food, so we probably spend more on dining out and drinking than the average US traveler.

Because I'm one of these crazy spreadsheet people, I looked back over the last three two week trips to see what we spent per day (all in). How does this compare to what others spend?
1. 2011 -Italy $650 (include $1300 for airfair and $1200 one way car rental)
2. 2013 Italy-$485 (airfare miles + tax)
3. 2014 Scotland- $515 (airfare-miles+ tax)

One other comment, time is more valuable than money. As an example, we spent $500 for a drop fee for renting a car in Germany and dropping in Italy. We really wanted the road trip from Germany through Switzerland to Italy, and needed a car for the week in Tuscany, and then paid another $400 to fly one way back to Frankfurt (should have done Open Jaw). But the extra $900 was worth more than spending a long day in the car driving back to Frankfurt.

I asked the question in part raw curiosity and in part because i answer a lot of questions on one country page and wanted to have some guidance on the sort of suggestions would be most relevant. See the "i only use carry-on, Hostels, public transportation" types here are so vocal that i was curious if i was getting the right impression of the subscribers as a whole. Also noticed that the same group can be a little condescending at times and that might be driving some underground. "i dont need to be pampered like so and so does, to have a good time" sort of attitude. But admittedly, that is rare and this is overall and excellent group. Personally i think everyone is right if it suits them and they enjoy it.

James E. I agree with you on fellow posters condescending comments when you voice your opinion or answer a question posted. I also agree it does drive people underground, who wants to be belittled or embarrassed by a rude poster. I posted once I got a good exchange rate for Euros at my credit union and one guy said I was a liar and asked for my receipt to be posted, ha ha.

So it seems the posters are a mixed bag for value versa luxury, and that is ok. walk in your own shoes I say.

Relative to Karen's per day comparisons, I don't think a per day comparison including air fare to get there, in US$, is valid. State just what you spent in Europe - lodging, local transportation, meals, other - in euro.

The air fare part for someone who flies from California to Greece and stays a week is obviously going to be more per day than for someone who flies from Boston to Ireland and stays a month, but that doesn't reflect on how you spend in Europe. So leave air fare out of the comparison.

Also, I was in Germany/Austria when the euro was $1.45. I'd spend a lot less today on the same trip, not because I've learned more, but because the euro is now less than $1.15. Only by expressing your cost in euro, which has changed far less than the exchange rate, do you make a fair comparison.

There are other variables that should be mentioned when quoting a cost, such as what country, cities or towns, and the number of people in the party (I only spent about 60% more per day, in euro, on my last trip with my partner, for both of us, than I did the previous trip alone).

I'm sure others will suggest some other factors that affect the cost per day.

And, just for the record, my in-Europe expenses have been about 65-70 euro per day for the last 10 years, traveling alone, mostly (85%) outside big cities, not staying in hostels, and eating at least one sit-down meal per day (not including breakfast, which was included with the room).

If I had to make an estimate, the average day in Europe costs me some EUR 100. Sometimes less, sometimes ridiculously more (I still feel somewhat ashamed about a 10-day stay in Rome with the hotel alone costing me some EUR 180 a night, but I really didn't want to be in a place with my feet hanging above the wash-basin).
For me, a hotel is a purely functional place for sleeping, washing and having breakfast, and a restaurant a place to have a decent meal, but not as an end in itself.
I cannot imagine myself being driven around or having a guide to show me the way in a city. It would very much take away my pleasure of discovering it for myself and give me the feeling to be shut off from the surroundings. And I'm pig-headed enough to think I know what I want to see and what not.
Some find it a luxury to find it all being arranged; I find it a hindrance.
It's a good thing we're not all the same.

My price point and p-o-v also leans towards the cheap end of the spectrum, generally 70-80 euros per night for lodging and using mass transit rather than taxis, but it is a vacation so there are some things that I look to splurge on: a bathtub rather than a shower only is a pleasure worth extra to me, and multi-course meals at lunch and dinner especially if they involve local distinctive items (liqueurs/cordials a plus). Decor at the hotel is not important to me, nor is breakfast; I prefer to grab a pastry on the run or stock up at a local market on fruit and snacks. A good small-group guide is precious, and a low-key evening performance worth seeking out; the latest version of "Wicked" and a combination bus driver / script-reciter is avoidable at any price. Getting the extra audioguide or pamphlet in English at most museums and sights is worth it to me; sitting in the see-and-be-seen tables on the square usually not.

Sometime, somewhere in the dim dark past, and of course I can't find it now, I read an RS suggestion that a good average daily budget for a moderately priced trip, not counting airfare is (sorry, it was in dollars) about $180 per person per day. On our trips so far, my husband and I have been right in that general price range, sometimes a little lower or higher. So that means an average somewhere between $300 and $400 per day for the two of us. At today's exchange rate that would be between 265 EUR and 350 EUR per day. Or, for my next trip, between 195 GBP and 260 GBP.

But, I count everything except the airfare: any books or maps I buy specifically for the trip, boarding the dog, parking the car, food in the airports stateside before we leave and after we arrive home... Perhaps I shouldn't count those things. It would make our cost look lower, but it would not reflect our real cost of leaving the US for a month+.

I think we travel comfortably with a combination of some higher and lower priced hotels, some apartments, some B&Bs all thrown in the mix. Our lodging tends to be where we spend the most money. If we have an early flight, I will pay for an airport hotel the night before. Those are often our most expensive lodgings of the whole trip, but it is well worth the money for us. In general we probably spend a lot more time in our rooms than most people. My husband is a late sleeper and we rarely get out of the room in a timely fashion. In fact, that was our biggest challenge on the RS week in Istanbul tour. I'm an early riser, so I should have more time to see and do things in the UK than in the past.

Our second largest expense is usually a tie between food and local transportation. The former is a combination of restaurants, snack breaks and groceries when we rent an apartment. It definitely includes a lot of bottled water. The latter includes car rental, taxi, metro, bus, ferry, intra-European airlines, etc.

Compared to many people, we spend very little on special local tours, although we have done it, and on entrance fees for typical sights. I would expect us to spend much more on those things, but somehow we don't.

I will be on my own in the UK. I don't expect to cut those average daily costs in half. Based on what I've researched so far, traveling solo will be cheaper for just about everything except lodging for the dog in Tucson and for me in England and Scotland. There isn't much of a discount for a single person, at least in the places I've looked at so far. I won't be renting a car and everything else I'll be paying for one instead of two, so there will definitely be some savings. Hmmmm? Maybe I should eat up those savings with special treats of some kind. I'm not a shopper, but a spa day in Bath sounds very appealing.

More specific to your questions, I would take an 8 hour train ride instead of fly if the route was interesting. I often plan the route so that it is interesting. Over 8, I'd probably fly. No box seats or suit for me, but maybe a matinee instead of an evening performance. I'm not big on being out late at night. I do plan to have a seat at the Globe. I'm long past my ability to be a groundling. In other situations, I'll typically pay for the best seat I can get, but sometimes the seats I like best are in the front balcony.

I don't have the money for a total splurge on any trip, but I don't have to go the way I did in 1977 -- all backpacking, all hostels and pensions, almost all picnicking, all four months I was gone.

Your postulated 4 hr, $200 "transfer" vs a 12 hr, $80 train trip was a "straw man" argument, at least for me.

First, I would never plan a trip with a 12 hour train trip. There are two many things in Europe to see. One doesn't need to "leap" that far between destinations.

Second, 4 hours vs 12 hours is not likely. For most trips I can find, I find the road alternative takes 50% of the time, or more.

I have made two train trips in 15 years for which the road equivalent was 4½ hours. I paid 29€ for each of them with German Saver fares. Both trips took me about 6 hours by train. Would I have paid an extra $160 to save 1½ hours? No! And, on one of these trips, I stopped in Cologne for two hours for lunch and some sightseeing. So the "transfer" would have been 6½ hours and probably cost more than $200. The two hour stopover on the train cost me nothing.

However, I once paid 100€ (for two) to take a 2½ hour trip by ICE from FRA to the Black Forest. A road transfer would have saved less than 20 minutes (per ViaMichelin), and for how much extra?. Doing the trip by regional rail with a QdL ticket would have taken 1½ hours more and cost 52€ (48€ less). It was right after arriving at FRA after a trans-Atlantic flight, and I felt that the extra 24€ per person was worth the 1½ jet-lagged hours. If it were not just after arriving, I would have used a Saver Fare for 48€ for the 2½ hr, ICE trip.

So your trade-off is not very realistic.

As far as spending $300 for a hotel, if I were in Italy in June or July, and I wanted air conditioning, probably, but I would never do that, so it's a moot point. For Germany, for shoulder season, I couldn't justify it. When I traveled to Germany, on business, they put us up in 4 and 5 star hotels. Since then, on my own, I've stayed in small pensions and B&Bs (Privatzimmer). I found the 4 and 5 star hotel experience culturally sterile. I much prefer the small, intimate, less expensive accommodations.

Really wasn't meant as a straw man and it appears from the posts that everyone understood the intent. Granted maybe i should have considered comparing driving to Ljubljana from Budapest vs the train. That would be 8 vs 4 hours. Or the overnight train from Budapest to Krakow vs driving and that would be 11 hours vs 6 hours. BUT, i do agree with you that if you are the type that will have multiple opportunities to travel the trip is best planned where you don't have to make the long hauls from point to point. But some, will only have one or few opportunities and their great obsession is to see London, Paris and Rome which would make the question more relevant. So far i have agreed with 90 percent of the posts. What has been really insightful has been the few PMs i have received from higher end travelers who didn't want to post it and get flamed for their life styles.

Did Rick Steves PM you to admit he is a "Closeted Four Season's Type" and really doesn't stay overnight at any of those small, "intimate", family-run B&Bs and guesthouses he recommends in his guides? Homeboy is a millionaire. I've always suspected he shows up at some of these places, has the camera man film him laying on a bed typing on his laptop in some spartan looking room. But as soon as those camera guys yell "Cut!" Rick is out of there and back at his luxury hotel asking the concierge to get him takeout from L'Atelier de Joel Robuchon.

"What has been really insightful has been the few PMs i have received from higher end travelers who didn't want to post it and get flamed for their life styles."

Really? I used to post on another travel website, and constantly got flamed for my life style, ie, not spending more.

I choose economy over luxury almost every time. I feel I get more out of it. Also, I would choose the train over the plane in most situations. The impact of air travel on the environment is tremendous, so I tend to opt out of flying as much as I can. But that is my choice.

Lee, don't think you will get heat for traveling economically on this forum.

jkc, what a great topic! Does a desire to travel justify the carbon footprint of our travels? Maybe someone should post it?

Does a desire to travel justify the carbon footprint of our travels?
The days of travel innocence are over. We know flying seriously damages the health of our planet. Every time I board a plane I feel guilty about it.
I have the luck to live in Europe with so many things still to discover, and with a rail network that reaches all corners. It's no problem to skip flying altogether and exclusively use trains, even if it means having a stop on the way. This year I took the train from the Netherlands to Poland. It was too long to do it in one day, so we stayed overnight in a small city on the German-Polish border. Did some walking, had a good dinner, slept well, and the next morning we took the train further to the east. It was all very pleasant and relaxing, and did not feel as a waste of time. I promised myself to make it a routine.

As a follow-up to the prior posters concerned about air travel impacts, this is a decent carbon footprint calculator that many airlines and businesses use to allow someone to purchase carbon offsets. You need to have some patience to input all the data, but you get out of it what you put in. Even if you don't use the calculator, at least you get a broader perspective that flying is only one variable of an individual's carbon footprint (daily commute, home energy use, etc also play a role, so it seems to make most sense to look "at the big picture" instead of focusing solely on air travel). I like the calculator because it's easy to use and is transparent about its methodology for anyone interested.

http://www.terrapass.com/carbon-footprint-calculator/
http://www.terrapass.com/news/low-carbon-flights-on-the-internet/

@ tomfromleiden...well said! I would use the discount aircarrier option very sparingly. I did that in the '70s and '80s going from Hannover-Langenhagen to (West) Berlin and found it wasting too much time, waiting at the train station and the airport. My trips to Poland all started in Paris, basically took two days, first, Paris Est to Berlin, changing in Mannheim, (that was ten hours), staying the night in Berlin, next day, taking the early morning train Berlin to Warsaw, another seven hours, since there was a delay en route.

But, going to Gdansk in 2003 from Paris took even longer, gave me the feeling one was going to the end of the earth, even with breaking up the legs by staying a night in Berlin, still it all added up to over 19 hrs., ie, 10 hrs Paris Est-Berlin, then Berlin to Gdansk with two changes , ca. 9.5 hrs. The advantage was that I saw that historical country side from the Oder to the lower Vistula. Now, you can go Berlin - Gdansk direct...lovely!

James, I agree. I have been thinking about this for a bit when so many keep advocating for folks to take a plane rather then the train. We all make our choices and I am not going to judge someone for taking plane over a train, but being aware of the incredible cost we humans do to the earth with our lifestyles, whatever lifestyle that maybe, is something we all should think about.

It takes all kinds -- one traveler's meat is another traveler's poison, as the old saying goes.
The rooms they film Rick typing in on the tv episodes don't look 'spartan' to me, they look pretty cushy;
I take those moments as encouragement to relax and spread out a little b/c those rooms seem to
exemplify the difference between getting the cheapest deal and getting the best deal. It nudges me
to look for something above stairs rather than head straight for the basement.

Global Warming and Destruction: even the little things count. We always insist our drivers use diesel Range Rovers. We only stay in accommodations with central air and heat as that is markedly more efficient than those little stand alone room units you find in the lesser 4 star hotels. We only eat caviar from farm raised sturgeon (the Israelis produce some excellent caviar these days). When time permits we cross the Atlantic on the QM2 which I believe creates a fraction of the carbon per body on board as compared to a chartered jet. And we never drink bottled water. You know between the shipping and glass bottle mfg, that stuff has an enormous carbon trial. Wine is better anyway. And I would much prefer a fine vintage Rolex to a new one saving in the new production gold strip mining.

Global Warming and Destruction: even the little things count. We always insist our drivers use diesel Range Rovers. We only stay in accommodations with central air and heat as that is markedly more efficient than those little stand alone room units you find in the lesser 4 star hotels. We only eat caviar from farm raised sturgeon (the Israelis produce some excellent caviar these days). When time permits we cross the Atlantic on the QM2 which I believe creates a fraction of the carbon per body on board as compared to a chartered jet. And we never drink bottled water. You know between the shipping and glass bottle mfg, that stuff has an enormous carbon trial. Wine is better anyway. And I would much prefer a fine vintage Rolex to a new one saving in the new production gold strip mining.

Very droll, James. Very droll.

Norma, i guess you are correct. My apologies. However, the last time I purchased a private transfer it was a Range Rover diesel and i do have this real obsession with the waste involved in bottled water. I avoid the AC question by not traveling in the summer and i am saving the QM2 for when i retire and cant get around too well.

Pondering....what does a $300 room have that the rooms I book (at a fraction of the cost) do not have?

Bruce; the answer is opulence.

op·u·lence
/ˈäpyələns/
noun
noun: opulence; plural noun: opulences

great wealth or luxuriousness.
"rooms of spectacular opulence"

synonyms: luxuriousness, sumptuousness, lavishness, richness, luxury, luxuriance, splendor, magnificence, grandeur, splendidness;

informalplushness, classiness, ritziness, poshness, swankiness

"the opulence of the room"

wealth, affluence, wealthiness, richness, riches, prosperity, money

"a display of opulence"

Sometimes used in the phrase " a vulgar display of opulence". Think Saudi princes.

Pondering....what does a $300 room have that the rooms I book (at a fraction of the cost) do not have?

A separate charge for using wi-fi ($10-25 a night) and a $6 bottle of water
(plus a bellman, elevators, 24-hour room service, concierge, valet parking, dry cleaning, on-site restaurant, locally sourced and hand crafted toiletries...well you get the point)

A lot of the bigger chains are moving to free wifi for loyalty program members if the room is booked on their own web site. I know IHG has been phasing this in since 2014 for Intercontinentals and Crowne Plazas.

I've got cheerfully middlebrow travel tastes. Room budget is generally about $150/night in big cities and $100/night in smaller areas. And since we're a couple of introverts with dust/mold allergies, I like the 'budget business' chains (Holiday Inn Express, Ibis, Motel, One, etc.) with their wifi included, recent construction that brings modern energy efficiency and CH&A standards, and normal lack of mustiness. I'm also one of those travel points & miles collectors who is always looking for creative ways to pay for my vacation addiction. Am currently a few points shy of pulling off a nice 5 night stay at a Staybridge Suites (go full kitchen!) for $350 USD plus a bunch of points.

Location-wise, I'm looking for a more neighborhood feel that's near a grocery store and a few casual restaurants/pubs/pizza places that's 15-25 minutes by mass transit from the fun touristy stuff. Quieter, your fellow guests are also people who are looking for the same, and the restaurants nearby are priced for locals and not tourists.

Location criteria #2- stay in an area where it's quite safe to get lost in. We seem to have as much or more fun just randomly wandering around or by deciding to walk from place to place instead of taking subway or bus. Yep, walked from the Arc de Triumphe to the Louvre, enjoying the sights as we went and stopping every so often to buy a water or a snack and enjoying just being in the moment in Paris. And in following days rambled our way up to the top of Sacre Coeur hill, something spousal unit described as his favorite evening in Paris.

If we do rent a car, spousal unit likes something bigger and with some power. We're more likely to splurge on a nice BMW or Mercedes for the autobahn than drop more than 30 euros on a meal. In town, it's normally mass transit unless the gape between train and taxi really doesn't seem to be much. So it's slow tube ride from Heathrow into the city but, hey, it's only about 15 euros more for two to take a cab to CDG than it would be to go commuter train.

For intra-Europe mass transit, it depends on how interesting the train ride would be compared to the flight. Plane rides are fun; train rides are fun- which is better is a case by case review..

Norma, "vulgar" begins at $850 a night.

Thanks for the explanation Agnes. The savings on goods/services I am "missing" such as valet parking (what, for my train tickets?) is accounted for elsewhere in my travel budget.

Speaking about carbon footprint: what about air conditioning? Imagine all the energy used to make your room into a large refrigerator!
Most places I stay don't have it, but when they do, the first thing I do is to get the thing off. When it's hot, there are windows which can be opened. (Not in those large chain hotels, I admit, but those are not my favourite places to rest my head.)

A modern high efficiency AC system in a properly insulated structure can actually be quite reasonable in terms of power use. Our household daily electric use is significantly higher for our annual two weeks of winter when daytime highs struggle to get above 5C and we're having to run the heat than it is when we're running the air con constantly trying to deal with 35C and humid in the summer.

Norma, "vulgar" begins at $850 a night.

Best laugh I've had today (thanks, James!) and fortunately not a label I'll ever have to worry about!

This has been such a fun read, and I find the comments about tolerance (or lack thereof) of different travel styles particularly interesting. When I first joined this site, I was a little worried about how it would go as my DH and I only take tours when it's mandatory - such as at certain historic sites - and we check luggage. So far, I haven't had to duck any flying veg! :O)

When it comes to forums - and I belong to several - I often have to put my own preferences in a box and consider the poster's situation? Too often there's precious little to work with but once a budget, interests, time, confidence level and the like is pulled out of 'em, it can make a big difference in whether I'll reco the cash-strapped student a cheap shuttle bus, hostel and list of free stuff to do, or the nervous, mobility-challenged seniors a private driver and hotel with larger rooms and a lift. Or a tour which manages a lot of the transport details. It's not my trip and not my situation so whatever works best for them is great.

I guess we're very middlish of the road when it comes to what we spend $$ on. We're not into evening entertainment like shows and clubs, fly coach, walk almost everywhere, use minimal public transport and almost never take cabs. We eat one meal out a day (dinner) and those tend to be very early and very casual. Hotel tariffs fall somewhere between $110 - $150 a night, and we'll push the upper end for a terrace - and use it - when the scenery begs for it. After 10-12 miles a day on foot (we're out very early) there's nothing like collapsing in the evening with an adult beverage and a willya-look-at-THAT view! $300? Never say never; could happen for a night in a castle or other rare and fascinating experience.

We love the trains because we can both enjoy the journey without watching the road, they dump us out right in the middle of towns and cities, and because we can sample the local grape or brew wherever we are should the opportunity arise. I also have terrible car sickness so the less time in a vehicle, the better. Bleh. But 12 hours? Nope. We plan trips around fairly compact areas so that transfers aren't more than 3-4 hours by rail, tops, and often less.

That we don't take tours (yet) is not because I think it's an inferior way to travel - many of you have had such good experiences with RS groups and I respect that - but because we simply like more flexibility, longer versus shorter stays, can go for an extra week for the same price, and because it's a special time for just the two of us to be together. We both LIKE people and are never at a loss for humans to connect with but we don't really want to be in a group all day, every day at this point in life. It's also fun when those connections are with people from all over the world and not mostly my own countrymen, much as I love ya'll. Some our best stories have come from pub and terrace tables shared with a motley collection of characters!

Glad you are having fun, and it has been a fun topic. You put a lot down so I will pull out one thing: tours. I don't much care for organized tours. Did one once when I was younger and I did have a good time but I can't seem to get fired up about another one. I have some friends that travel in a group of about 8 where ever they go and I cant get fired up about that either. I do use guides when I think it adds value but I don't just hire an agency and say, send me a guide. I spend months with back and forth communication with prospects until I find one that clicks. We have had maybe one we wish we didn't hire, two that were pretty much okay and three that we could hire to show us our own home town they were so enjoyable to know and be around. People say they want to get into the culture. Spending a few days with a local is one way to do that if you can treat them like more than hired help.

I personally just made this decision this week. Our daughter is a French teacher and is taking her students on a trip to Madrid & Toledo (with the Spanish class), then to Paris & London (two of my favorite places). The cost for 8 nights was $4050 and included everything except lunch & spending money. The first year I went to Paris, I went with her French class for 5 nights. It was a totally guided tour and I loved it and Paris so much I returned with my husband for the next 2 years. I was the tour guide & we had so much fun. I declined the upcoming trip mostly due to the cost and the fact that I would rather travel on my own now & see what I want to see rather than being tied to a certain schedule which is mainly structured for people who have never been to the places they are going. And the fact that I don't have a burning desire to see Spain (except maybe Barcelona).

As to your specific questions, I consider myself a Back Door type. I like apartments rather than hotels and I'd take the direct transfer 90% of the time since time is more limited while I'm in Europe. And I'd go for the balcony view every time.

I find my costs remarkably similar to Lee's. I now like to stay in apartments if possible. More room than a fine hotel suite at a fraction of the cost. My favorite is in a 1699 building right on the town square in a Black Forest town - 40 Euro.

In the '70's, I would estimate my daily cost at twice the amount in the '$$$ per day' books.

Pondering....what does a $300 room have that the rooms I book (at a fraction of the cost) do not have?

Usually a wellness area with saunas of different temperatures and humidities, a relaxation room, a solarium, massage service, a gym and often an indoor pool. I've come to appreciate these services in the Alps, where they really help you recover from an intense day of hiking or skiing.

Our international travel style is pretty eclectic. The biggest expense and luxury is flying business class. My husband can't fold into a coach seat and come out on the other end in any kind of shape to enjoy the trip, so we splurge there and economize elsewhere. It means we travel less, but between sales and mileage points, we've been able to keep the cost from being too out of sight. BTW, this is the second year we've found business class fares sales at this time of year. Will it continue, who knows.

Once we're on the ground, we're willing to try just about anything. An apt.rental in London one year came with an airport pick up, and we've done the metro in Athens from the airport into town. We've done the Hilton chain with points and rooms so small we had to climb over the bed rather than go around. We keep our food budget on the low end; we find that tour groups have much larger meals than we're used to. Local transportation is our usual method of travel unless we're with other people who favor taxis.

My husband is retired military, so we joined the Marine Memorial Club. That gives us access to reciprocal military lodgings internationally. It's not always that cheap, but it is a unique experience. We've done one in Paris and one in Barcelona.