Crowds

Frank II, I get it. I can only travel in the summer (perhaps an occasional winter trip between semesters), and I haven't been to Venezia or Firenze since 2014!

I also find myself looking for more out of the way places. Entire regions of Italy are under-visited, so I am spending more time there.

Can't tear myself away from Roma, no matter how crowded it gets.

I can tolerate crowds in places designed to handle them. I take it for granted that when I visit a Disney park, I'm going to be there with thousands of other people. I may have to wait in lines, but once I enter the attraction (for the most part), the presence of all those other people doesn't matter. And sometimes, it can add to the experience.

Same with skiing in the Alps. The resorts tend to be so large that the only time you really feel hemmed-in is when you take the inital lift up to the pistes. And for apres-ski, I'd really like to have a decently large group of people, rather than just a few other souls standing around.

But in other places, it just becomes a slog. I can sympathize with Frank's experience at Miniature Wunderland. I arrived first thing in the morning after it opened. Incredible, and I had an amazing up-close view of most of the layouts...but the place was elbow-to-elbow by 10 in the morning, in the middle of January to boot. I never really got a good look at the American and Scandinavian sections.

Keukenhof, same deal, I arrived just after opening, and had a leisurely stroll through the first indoor display. Forget it by 11, it was like a mosh pit. At least at Keukenhof, the outdoor gardens are extensive enough to never feel completely crowded.

I'm done with the most well-known art museums in Paris and Italy. The appreciation of the artwork gets completely killed when you have to jostle for position, or wait for someone to take a selfie with a famous painting.

Churches- I don't mind attending a service in a crowded church. It's actually spiritually uplifting. But the exact opposite experience is waiting in line to enter a house of God, or having prayers disturbed by flashing cameras and yammering visitors.

Neuschwanstein- crowds are much less of a problem here because tour groups enter at timed intervals in controlled numbers. While waiting for your tour to begin, you can walk or hike around the spectacular surroundings, which are immense The only place where crowds become an annoyance is on Mary's Bridge. And I hope that the reconstruction permanently removed all those horrible locks that have accumulated over the past decade (People, please stop this! It's vandalism, pure and simple.)

Hofbräuhaus- Another place more fun when crowded.

Viktulienmarkt- Fun with moderate crowds, not fun with massive crowds.

Charles Bridge- Can now only really be apprecitated early in the morning or very late at night.

Christmas Markets- Very enjoyable with large groups of people, but the most internationally known markets (Nürnberg, for example), can get uncomfortably packed. Most of the other markets in large cities, particularly those in cities that tourists usually don't visit, like Düsseldorf, Mannheim, Ingolstadt or Dessau, are a delight.

So, if you hate crowds, is there any hope in Europe? Yes, but you won't find relief in a certain Blue Book series read by millions of like-minded people. You need to do a little more research and perhaps sacrifice certain well-known icons. Allow a little spontaneity. You know those brown tourist boards posted on the highways? Try breaking from your carefully planned itinerary and see the site they advertise. You may be pleasently surprised. Or, take a suggestion from one of the regular posters on this website. I have Lee, Russ, Jo and Nigel to thank for making several worthwhile recommendations that would otherwise not have registered on my radar.

Yes, but it's worth remembering that Europe is huge and there are tons of places even in Europe that get hardly any tourists (relatively speaking). It's possible to enjoy travel to places that others may not consider "first rate" or whatever, or absent of blockbuster sites, just as much if you're in a certain frame of mind and you're open to a trip that is less on the well-traveled path. On my next trip, I'd rather visit Bulgaria or Romania rather than Paris, as crazy as that sounds. I saw Prague in 1994 and that's good enough - no return trip planned. It was too busy even then (for me). I'm also Ok skipping Cinque Terre altogether - and that may be true of Venice as well.

Although this forum is focused on Europe, there's a whole world outside of Europe. During a trip to Argentina, I drove on roads and been to places where there were a dearth of tourists (and even locals) - it was just pure, vast expanse of land stretching seemingly to infinity (same was true in Iceland). It was spellbinding. I don't remember feeling a crush of humanity in the larger cities either (Buenos Aires and Salta), and definitely not in the smaller towns. If you want to feel like you really want to get away from it all, you just need to pick where (there are lots of choices). If you choose to go where everyone else goes (especially at the same time others will likely be there), you'll get the same results over and over. I've gotten tired of crowds many years ago, so I intentionally plan around them. Sometimes it's not possible to escape the worst but, most of the time, there are many choices out there and one can design better options.

I don't have as big a problem with crowds as my husband, who will turn around and walk out if it's crowded. We have scheduled strategically for years to avoid people. Two trips to Ireland in February. It was cold and rainy and the days were short and we ran across few other tourists in typical tourist spots. Loved every wet minute. Disney World before school gets out in May - this one is getting tougher because of foreign tourists, but if you plan well you can definitely avoid the worst (touringplans.com).
We were in Sedona and visited the Grand Canyon the week after Christmas. It was great, but the smash of crowds at the lookouts close to the visitor center were awful. We didn't even see the movie or exhibits there. Thanks to great advice here and from TripAdvisor, we left Sedona very early in the morning so got there early, and once we realized the situation at the visitor's center, we passed most of the overlooks and drove out to Hermit Rd and picked up there. At a few of the stops, there were hardly any others there. We only had a few hours because we had to get back to Sedona by sundown, but the line of buses to get INTO the park when we were leaving must have been over a mile long. I cannot fathom...
We also can only travel during school breaks now that hubby is teaching, but we try to schedule Europe trips as quickly as possible after school is out. June is not typically too bad, and it's cooler.

So yes, we feel it.

Yes, I also cannot stand crowds.

Shoulder season travel definitely helps, and off-season is even better (when it is warm enough). But, we've additionally found that guided tours (that skip lines or get one in extra early) really help. Or, just reserving tickets for the first time slot (as we did with the Sagrada Familia) helps. Yes, it can get very crowded a couple of hours later, but you can see a lot quickly before it's packed. We've also found it is definitely worth it (sometimes) to pay more for after-hours or before-opening access at certain sites.........why go all the way around the world to be miserable when paying just a bit more (for a good guide or after-hours) can make it a wonderful experience. We've found hotel staff and staff at certain venues to also be very helpful with advice for when the best time of day (or day of week) to visit might be.

Most everyone on this site knows to do this already, but checking dates HUGE cruise ships are in port and scheduling sightseeing when they are OUT of port also helps. Also, when taking a cruise yourself, it is better (in our opinion) to travel on a smaller (400ish person or smaller) ship, as the shore excursions tend to be more agile and often offer preferred access (first-in or after hours).

Even here at home we tend to avoid HUGE crowded events. Preview parties can be an excellent way to support an arts or other not-for-profit organization, while also gaining an early viewing of exhibitions. Sometimes tourists can tap into similar events in their travels -- the exhibition/venue staff or hotel staff can advise.
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As an introvert-at-heart, I share your disdain of crowds. We generally do not go to crowded places unless we have reserved seats. :-)

Off-season, arriving late-or-early in the day, paying extra for early admission (Vatican early entry for example), and going to lesser-frequented places are all strategies we employ.

More and more we find our favorite travels are not driven by the famous iconic sights and museums, but by simply being in the location and enjoying living there for a week or more. Long walks -- preferably hiking in nature but also urban adventures -- tend to take us away from the crowds. To see a major museum I have to gird myself for battle. And NEVER go to a Roman museum on free Sunday. NEVER.

I too try to travel in the off season, when its cheaper and less crowded, but sometimes you can't avoid them.
When I visited the Vatican Museum/St Pete's Basilica, on a RS tour, the tour went in the middle of the week in the off season and there were still lines out the door. It was so crowded in places inside the museum that I had a hard time moving. The tour guide actually said he has seen it more crowded. I was so glad when we finished the museum!

That said I try to pack my patience when I visit popular places and I work my way around the crowds as best can.
J

Crowds make me crazy. The older I get, the less tolerance I have. In April my sister and I went up the Eiffel Tower. It was so crowded I could hardly enjoy it. People (other European tourists, not Americans) pushed and talked loudly in the line to the elevators to the summit. We ended up walking around the summit quickly so we could be first in line for the down elevator.

We had a similar experience at Versailles 4 years ago in September. Inside the palace, the rooms soon became so crowded that I felt like we were cattle. I'm only 5 feet tall and couldn't see over everyone. We couldn't wait to get outside.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. My memories of travelling to Europe in the 1980's were that I didn't need reservations anywhere, and didn't stand in line for hours. Now, for anywhere that might be crowded, I make sure I either have a museum pass or a timed reservation. 2 years ago I had an 8:30 am reservation for the Academia in Florence. What a wonderful experience! To have time to view the David with only a few others in the room. My new rule is to make myself be a morning person. Get in and get out before the tour busses arrive! Thinking about WHY things are so much more crowded now, at first I just put it down to burgeoning middle classes in Asia and India, but then I realized there are 3 or 4 BILLION more people on the planet than there were in 1980!

Emma's response is the best I've seen regarding crowds. Including her comments about the 'joys' of being a local in a popular tourist spot. We all share pretty much the same view of crowds and we all know, or have the tools to learn about, the various ways to avoid (or lessen) them - there are now two threads running here currently on this subject.

My only comment is that, opposed to the earlier poster (and many others, I'm sure), I find that I am getting more tolerant as I get older. I travel slower now and am not in a rush to see all the 'big' sights so I can use the tips to avoid the crowds easier than when I was younger and I've seen most of the major biggies that I had on my bucket list. I also find myself recognizing and understanding the first time traveler's desire and need to see those major sights, and I am thankful that I saw most of them before the millions and millions of new travelers. It's easier for us older, long time, travelers to bypass these sights and explore the lesser known and less crowded alternatives.

I share your aversion to crowds. There is a reason why London, Paris, Rome are crowded though, because they are that great. Beyond a certain critical mass of crowdedness, a lot of people seem to take license to bump into others, cut in line, etc. As others have mentioned, there are a number of remedies for this. Travel shoulder season. Don't spent your time only in the marquee name cities and sights. Anyone that only ever goes to London, Paris, Rome will walk away saying "Europe is crowded." Don't sightsee only the things that you are supposed to see because they are famous. Know that when you go to those marquee name places, they will be crowded and set your expectations accordingly. In addition to the big three already mentioned, the only other place where I have found crowds oppressive was Prague. We visited in September 2011, and the crowds of Prague were offset by the fact that we previously visited Olomouc, Cesky Krumlov, Sopron, Budapest. We were able to put up with the crowds of Prague for a few days because our itinerary was balanced. Actually even when the Charles Bridge and old town were crazy crowded, we found other corners in Prague that were much quieter. So it was not torture to visit or anything. For me Portugal, smaller cities and towns in France and England, Ireland outside of Dublin's Temple Bar, Budapest, (all of these in shoulder season) get extra points for not being too crowded. Madrid has lots of people but the tourists (outside of the Prado) don't seem to make that much of an impact. Your mileage may vary, it may be worse since we visited and traveling shoulder season solves a lot.

I don't mind crowds until it gets to the packed like sardines level. Just like I don't really mind driving in traffic until it starts to back up.

I do mind the things that come with crowds such as not being able to move or see, waiting in long lines, not being able to get food or drink (or use the toilet).

A friend went to carnival in Venice and said all you could do was walk slowly in a giant one-way circuit. If he went again, he'd pay for a ball ticket just to get out of the crowd.

I do plan my itinerary to avoid crowds where possible. Other times I'll skip something I planned on because it's too crowded to enjoy.

I go over in the summer, anytime from mid-May to the beginning of Sept. Practically all the trips minus one were taken in that time span. Therefore, I expect the crowds, since presumably they too go mostly in the summer. Going in the summer has its disadvantages, such as the heat which admittedly can get to you. If the locals and the Asian tourists can deal with the heat, I should too. The advantages are the longer days, more frequent train departures and connections, and the cheaper room rates in Paris and in Vienna offered from mid-July to the end of Aug. True, the crowds are in your face (that's tedious) but I am in theirs as well. The crowds don't deter me, even when they are coming at you from every direction and it's a constant battle dodging them. The heat could deter me...just depends.

I'm really starting to dislike crowds as well, but know I am part of the issue. Our first visit to Venice was in mid-Sept 2008, and we were at Rialto Bridge and it was like sheep being herded to slaughter - wall to wall (or canal to canal) people. We were chatting to one of the bridge merchants and he said - this is nothing, you should see it in July and August! Mind...blown...and also - have vowed to never go in July or August :)

So I have learned the last few trips that getting up and going out early (or visiting late) is a great benefit. Want to see Rialto with nary a soul? Visit it at 7am...granted, the shops aren't open then, but you get the picture.

One of our worst crowd experiences (and I know we've had a few, this is the one coming to mind) I think was our second trip to London in 2010. We had gone to Portsmouth for a sister visit and she came back to London (with her daughter) for the day. We wanted to go to Madame Tussauds. Well - we waited in line about 75 min - the place was a total zoo inside. About 10-15 min in, we totally lost track of my sister, only finding her after we left and waited outside for 20 min. We then went to (I think ) Piccadilly Circus area as she wanted to go to the Disney Store. Well - sidewalks were jam packed, the store was insane - we just stayed at the door while she went in. I still rem the store security helping a lost little girl try and find her parents. I was never so glad to get away from a place as I was that...on the flip side, we did Tussauds in NYC and almost had the place to ourselves!

I do try and actively search out more off the beaten track places to stay in between big cities to give myself a breather. It's why I chose to stay in Corniglia both visits to Cinque Terre - because I knew it was the least touristy. Why we stayed in Atrani on the Amalfi Coast instead of Positano or Sorrento. Why I'm most likely going to stay in Dordrecht in NL in April - seems a little more laid back, a place to catch your breath. Sometimes transportation logistics are tougher, but it's worth it to unwind.

In addition to Emma's response about having to live with it - I still rem last trip to Venice on the vaporetto and talking with a tourist who was complaining about the rudeness of some of the (very few left) locals on the water buses. My response - can you imagine living here and having to put up with that crowd day in, day out. Most likely having your toes run over by suitcases, bumped, pushed...she actually asked me if I lived there...lol. I think in my head I'd love to, but I'm sure after about 3 months of the tourists hordes daily, I'd be insane.

If I have to sit thru more than one change of the light in my town, I start getting cranky. Can't imagine having to deal with it every blessed day...

For me it's not the crowds themselves, it's the behaviour of them. I can't stand the aggressive queue jumping and jostling and butting in. Whether it's the lineup for morning espresso at Naples train station cafe or the Mona Lisa or the Aeolian Islands ferry queue, it drives me crazy when I feel people streaming around me and pushing to get closer to the front of the line. Very disrespectful and distracting to the enjoyment I would like to take away from the trip.

And to borrow a recently infamous saying, so sad.

Like most on this board, I am past the age of going to rock concerts and I don't enjoy being in crowds. I plan to avoid lines while traveling but the major attractions will have lots of people for a reason, they are worth seeing. My wife watches too much television news and is now afraid of being in a large crowd because of terrorists attacks. I unwittingly booked our next trip to coincide with King's Day in Amsterdam (Google it if you want to see orange crowds) and we are planning on embracing the crowds and festivities.

to me crowded places are like popular bands - the Boss and Rolling Stones are amazing, but I far more enjoy seeing equally talented artists that haven't caught on with the masses. Tourist destinations, I think , are like this; we think that if we miss the greatest hits we haven't heard the music. But in the height of high season I've toured Melk Abbey with reasonable tourist density. At the same time Stephen's Dome is Vienna was like the world's most impressive can of sardines. Strasbourg never seems to get overwhelmed with tourists while Paris makes you wait in two hours lines. Call me a cretin but I flat out like Melk/the Wachau more than Vienna anyway, like visiting Strasbourg more than Paris even if Paris wasn't crowded.

My attitude is probably hypocritical since I've seen all of Europe's must sees, but if I could go back and do it all over again I'd want to know that needing to call ahead for a cue reservation isn't at all an indicator that a sight is more worth seeing than ten others elsewhere you can stroll up to and feel lonely.

No more crowds for me. My absolute worst experience was this past October when I took a walking tour of Florence that included entrance to the Uffizi. Unfortunately for me, I did not realize that Oct 31-Nov 1 was a major holiday weekend for Italy. Even with "walk right in" entrance passes, the place was a mass of people. So much so that even today, I can't remember anything about that museum. Florence itself was a mass of people that I did not expect for late Oct. I have subsequently learned my lesson about paying attention to major European holidays and vow never to repeat my mistake. Despite my attempt to get out of the city for a day, I chose Lucca when a major cartoon convention (at least this is what I think it was) made that town impossible to appreciate due to the hordes of people coming into town for the festival. Saw some great costumes though. Oh well. I'll just pay more attention next time. Live 'n learn.

When I was planning for our April trip to NL and BE, I was trying to figure out which way to do the trip...London-Paris-BE-NL or vice versa. Someone pointed out to me that we would be hitting King's Day in AMS is we did the NL portion last - I'm like...OK...that made up my mind for me - let's do NL at the beginning. In the end, we did end up booking a week earlier, so it wouldn't have mattered, but it certainly does help to check on holidays - especially if you don't want to partake in them!