Critque Itinerary: Germany, Austria, Italy, France

Looks pretty good , but you have three one nighters in a row, I would elimanate Lake Como( look, you are already doing Cinque Terra for a small town expereince by the water) and bump schedule down so you have three nights in Paris, its worth the extra night.

Natalie, what first strikes me about your planned itinerary is that you'll just be skimming over the surface of the places you visit. It's the kind of trip itinerary that makes it necessary, when you return home, to have a vacation from your vacation. Other than to say, "I've been there," no one can sightsee Munich, Salzburg, Venice, Florence, Paris in one day each. Add it up--you're spending 29.5 hours on the train in transit to various places. That does not include time getting to and from the train stations. That's the equivalent of three days of train travel. Do you really want to spend so much of your precious (presumably) time on a train? (I notice that none of them are night trains.) At the very least I'd suggest eliminating: Neuschwanstein Castle to spend more time in Munich, Hallstat to spend an additional day in Salzburg, and Varenna (Lake Como) to spend an additional day in Florence, and Avignon to spend an additional half-day in Paris. Even that hardly leaves you much breathing time. Your itinerary is good for collecting "I've-been-there merit badges or bragging rights," but it's not good for getting to see or know anything about anywhere you've been. That takes time. I'd describe it as "sightskimming" not "sightseeing." Maybe that's all you want to do, but this is certainly not an itinerary I'd want to do. For me personally, taking only a little bite out of each course hardly amounts to eating a meal. All that may sound critical, but I intend it to be constructive. I frankly think you will savor more, remember more, learn more, and grow more if you prune your itinerary to a few selective places and slow down.

Dwayne is exactly right. With only two weeks I would suggest one country.

Thank you for feedback. Your comments confirmed what I've been suspecting - way too many plans :-)

Since France is a must stop on this trip for several reasons, I've readjusted the itinerary to accommodate it, by reducing the overall number of stops.

What are your comments/suggestions on the following plan:

Day 1 - fly to Venice (spend 3 nights)

Day 2&3 - sightsee Venice

Day 4 - train to Florence (spend 3 nights)

Day 5&6 - sightsee Florence

Day 7 - train to Cinque Terre (spend 3 nights)

Day 8&9 sightsee Cinque Terre

Day 10 - train to Lauterbrunnen Valley - longest transfer, ~8hrs (spend 2 nights in Gimmelwald)

Day 11 - sightsee Gimmelwald

Day 12 - train to Beaune (spend 1 night)

Day 13 - train to Colmar (spend 2 nights)

Day 14 - sightsee Colamar

Day 15 - train to Paris (spend 2 or 3 nights)

Day 17 or 18 - fly home

If there are other/better towns worth seeing on the way to Paris from Gimmelwald, I'm open to suggestions.

I understand that you want to do it all...I understand that all too well. I think I would not do the CT on this trip and add it to France.
I had to make a similar decision on my trip.

Always remember you will be back.....

Unless you've already spent several weeks in Paris, you have really short-changed it on this trip!

I've already spent 5 days in Paris, so 2/3 nights there will be enough for this trip.

The part of the itinerary that I feel most uncomfortable with is the travel from Cinque Terre to Lauterbrunnen Valley.

Taking suggestions for other stops in France in route to Paris from Cinque Terre.

Your last post (on the duplicate topic thread): "The one stop on this list that I'm still not 100% sure about is Lauterbrunnen Valley. It takes the longest time to transfer to and I have concerns about the weather. Is it really worth the effort getting there?"Here's the problem and risk you're faced with: Because you're only there one day, you're rolling the dice in terms of the weather. It's the mountains and weather in the mountains is often bad and notoriously unpredictable. You're going to considerable expense and time to get there and you only have the one day. If you don't have good luck with the weather, it can be an expensive bust. But if the weather happens to be good, it's one of the more amazing Alpine landscapes you'll ever see. The travelers here who've had the best experiences there are those who were able to be there more than one day, so they could wait the weather out, or they just got really lucky. Don't rely on anyone who tells you the weather is likely to be this and such in the Alpine villages that hang above the Lauterbrunnen Valley or that "the weather was great last year when we were there"--because it's a mountainous area with notoriously unpredictable weather.

If you don't go to Lauterbrunnen (I wouldn't when you only have the one day--see my post above), then an alternative route from CT to Paris is through the French Riviera and Provence. But IMO you won't have the best experience that you could have, if you revert back to your original itinerary of back-to-back one nighters in Villefranche, one night in Avignon, and then on to Paris--because the travel times are such that one night really means you have only a few hours in Villefranche, have no time to see the rest of the Riviera, and the same in Avignon. You need a minimum of 4 hours of pure sightseeing time in Avignon. Here's something to think about: Consider training from the CT through the French Riviera but not stopping there, or maybe hopping off at Nice for a 2 or 3 hour mad dash through Nice, but not stopping overnight; and then taking the time saved to do 2 nights in Avignon, giving you at least 4 hours in Avignon itself and then enough time to take a van tour to something like the Pont du Gard or another sight in the Provence countryside (countryside not reachable by train).

I have found a great price for US->Munich->Paris->US tickets, so back to considering that route. The flight dates will also allow for the trip to be extended to about 19 days.

Here is version 3 of the itinerary (note, not looking to see all the museums in Florence, hence 2 nights there):

Day 1 - fly to Munich (spend 3 nights)

Day 2&3 - sightsee Munich

Day 4 - train to Salzburg (spend 2 nights)

Day 5 - sightsee Salzburg

Day 6 - train to Hallstatt (spend 2 nights)

Day 7 - sightsee Hallstatt

Day 8 - train to Florence (long transfer...) (spend 2 nights)

Day 9 - sightsee Florence

Day 10 - train to Cinque Terre (spend 3 nights)

Day 11&12 - sightsee Cinque Terre

Day 13 - en route to France - Colmar? Gimmelwald? Avignon?

Day 14 - ???

Day 15 - ???

Day 16 - train to Paris (spend 3 nights)

Day 19 - fly to US

Still not quite sure what the best stop is in route to Paris after CT. It's a long transfer no matter how you look at it... Suggestions?

Natalie: Re version 3 of your itinerary, speaking (if I may) for the itinerary gurus here, we're thrilled that you've gone from your original itinerary of 10 location changes in 15 days on the ground to more like 7 or 8 location changes in about 17 or 18 days on the ground.We enjoy helping people who want to be helped and who actually read and respond to suggestions!(What?! someone actually reads and considers our advice!:)I'd suggest for your consideration CT - Avignon, 2 nights Avignon, plus a mid-day mad dash through Nice for several hours (see my earlier post), if you want to break up the CT - Avignon train ride and do something a little crazy. Or not.

Kent, thank you for all the advice :-) As you see, it didn't go in vain :-)

I've been leaning towards Avignon area as well for that one stop. Picking up Ricks's Provence/French Riviera book from the library today to read up on the region. As always, so many options, not enough time :-)

Natalie: Although I've been mentioning Avignon, it's only because it was on one of your earlier itineraries. The problem with Avignon and other locations in Provence, for the traveler not renting a rental car, is that you're limited to the towns connected by rail: Aix, Arles, Nimes, Avignon, and Orange. You can't get into the country.For that reason, think about this: without a rental car, it might make more sense to spend the 2 nights in Nice, which is easily worth a day and a half of daylight time on the ground. This is for the traveler without a rental car.Avignon = Avignon Papal Palace and other historical things. Nice = beach scene, art museums, plus some history.

Or... Arles = Roman Arena and theater, charming town, Les Alyscamps, and option to hop the train (25 min.) to Avignon if that's not enough.

Adam is right, Arles would be yet another good choice. For someone without a car, Arles would be my personal choice if the choice was Nice, Avignon, or Arles.

Natalie, I'm joining the discussion a bit late, but will try to offer some suggestions. Your "Version 3" Itinerary looks fairly realistic, so that's the one I'll focus on. At the beginning of the trip, I'm assuming you've allowed one day for flight times?

While there are never any guarantees on the weather, I suspect the weather in the Berner Oberland would be "reasonable" in late August, so a visit to Gimmelwald is certainly feasible. However, keep in mind that August is peak holiday time in Europe, so pre-booking accommodations would be a really good idea!

One benefit of fitting Gimmelwald into the Itinerary at that point is that it's a good intermediate stop on the way to Paris. Of course, you could also fit Colmar or other locations in there, depending on which one is most important to you. I've travelled from Gimmelwald to Paris, and it's a reasonable trip if using the TGV (on my last trip, I boarded the TGV in Lausanne and from there to Paris was fairly quick).

If you're interested in a few thoughts on each of the destinations you have listed in Version 3, post another note. It's great that you've allocated 2-nights for Hallstatt, as that's an interesting location (and one with a lot of history).

Happy travels!