Critique my 3 week itinerary

Other than you wanting to drive on the autobahn, what are the interests of you and your wife? I'm assuming you like cities, as you're visiting a number of those. But are you looking for culture, history, art museums, other museums, sitting at cafes...? That should determine how long you spend in each place.

But overall, I would say that you are moving around a lot. Do a rough guesstimate of the number of hours you will spend traveling vs. actually being in a place. (Some of the journey is in the getting there, but not all of it!) Also, look through some guidebooks, watch some Rick Steves' videos, and make a rough list of what appeals to you in each place. If you come up with more things/sights than you can see or experience in the amount of time than you have alloted, then you may want to consider dropping one of your destinations, so that you will have more time to spend in the others.

In your planning, think of your trip as a matter of nights, as in, "on the night of 21 Oct, we'll be in Paris." It's a little easier that way.

How are you getting to Bruges? I would spend more than one night in Venice and Florence. I love art and history, both of which are in abundance there; maybe that's of less interest to you. Venice is so beautiful, though, you may want to spend more than one night. Many people also would think that three nights in Rome is too few, but again, it depends on what you enjoy.

Start in Dusseldorf, or finish in Rome. With only a night each currently allocated to both Venice and Florence, you really need to find an extra 2 nights for both places.

You are covering a lot of ground in three weeks, and therefore you are giving short shrift to some of the regions you're visiting.

Why not consider saving Italy for your next trip. This would give you five extra nights to spend in Germany and Austria, or to see more of Belgium and the Netherlands. People on this forum give high marks to Ghent, Antwerp, and Rotterdam. Read about Rick's favorite places in Germany and Austria, some of which could be day trips from where you're already planning to stay.

Counting nights -

1 Bruges (jetlagged)
3 Amsterdam
1 Nurburgring
3 Wiesbaden
2 Munich
1 Salzburg
1 night train
1 Venice
1 Florence
3 Rome
4 Paris

Are you taking into account the amount of time it takes to move from place to place? You have to pack, check out, get to the station/airport (and allow for traffic) with enough lead time to find your train (or go through airport procedures), then the reverse on arrival. One-nighters are tiring, 4 in a row would be grueling for many, even without one of them being a night train. If you are "packing light" you will need to do hand laundry every couple of nights. Will your stuff dry overnight? If you have a lot of luggage, you're going to be lugging it around an awful lot.

I agree with Chani. To visit all these destinations you really do need at least another night each for Bruges, Munich, Venice, Florence, and Rome.

If you can't arrange those extra days, try this... drop Munich, Salzburg, and the night train saving 4 days and nights and a whole lot of ground travel time - and fly from FRA or Frankfurt Hahn to Italy. Using Chani's "nights list," give 1 saved night to Bruges, 1 night to Venice, 1 night to Rome, and 1 night to Florence. These Italian destinations take a good bit more time than you expect because of crowds and the logistics of getting around.

"I want to say I've driven the Autobahn) to drive to the track, then I'll rent a race car there to actually drive the track. I figured we may be able to drop off the rental in Koblenz or similar and take a boat down the Rhine to Wiesbaden."

There's nothing less memorable (or less impressive to others) about my trips to Europe than my time on the Autobahn but maybe that's just me. But I'm certain the Nürburgring experience will not soon be forgotten!

This boat ride you have in mind will be next to impossible and will take forever. There are only 2 boats heading south from Koblenz per day and only the 9:00 boat offers a chance to reach Wiesbaden by boat (in 11.5 hours.)

KD boat schedule: https://www.k-d.com/en/kd-scheduled-cruises/kd-rhine-timetable/#c572

You'd be wiser to drive the car to Wiesbaden and drop it there. Then on one day you visit the Rhine villages or castles... take the train to Rüdesheim (where the best scenery begins) and cruise north for 1.5 hours to St. Goarshausen - you'll see a ton of castles on the way. From there you can catch a train north to Braubach (22 minutes) for a tour of Marksburg, the only never-destroyed Rhine Castle. You can return south on the same train line to Wiesbaden.

most of the autobahn does not have unlimited speed and is about as charming as the US interstate.

Why Wiesbaden?

Thanks for all of your responses. I'll address some concerns. First, what do we want to see? Well, as I said, my wife has been to Europe several times already (Amsterdam, France, Italy, and the UK) but I haven't. We're at the point where we're trying to start a family soon, so it's likely that once we do we won't be able to travel internationally again for quite a long time. So I want to see as any of the highlights of Europe as we can, and admittedly many of them are in (or just are) the cities. For me, I most want to see Amsterdam, Germany, and Italy. My wife wants to add some more countries to her visited list (thus Belgium and Austria), and she really wants to re-visit Paris. So that's how we decided our itinerary.

I have tried to address travel time from city to city using the Rome2Rio site, but you're right in that I haven't really accounted for the time to pack our stuff and travel to the airport/train station/whatever. While I'd like to avoid one nighters, we're not necessarily afraid of them - we drove from San Diego to Chicago and back in 2 weeks just as a road trip and stayed in a different town every night, but admittedly we had the luxury of having a car to keep our stuff in.

Bruges: I agree that I think I need to add another night, mainly to get over the jetlag, but I initially chose one night just to devote more time to Amsterdam since the people I know who have visited Bruges say that one full day would likely be sufficient.

Germany: As I originally stated my brother-in-law (who we haven't seen in a couple of years) lives in Wiesbaden, so we'll be able to stay there with him for free (and do laundry) plus be able to use it as a home base for activities in the area - Rhine River towns, and possibly a day trip to the Rothenburg - we'll have to see what he wants to do. Visiting (and hopefully driving) the Nurburgring is non-negotiable for me - it's a bucket list item. I know it's not easily accessible by public transit, which is why I'd want to take a train to somewhere in Germany and rent a car (I randomly picked Dusseldorf, but it could be Cologne) and drive to the Nurburgring on the way to Wiesbaden. The open track sessions during the week run from 5 to 7pm, so by that point I wouldn't want to travel any more that day and figured staying at a B&B near the Nurburgring for just one night would be smarter than driving unfamiliar roads at night to get to Koblenz or somewhere similar.

I didn't realize my idea to take a boat from somewhere near the Nurburgring on the Rhine to Wiesbaden would be a problem - admittedly I hadn't looked into schedules, so thanks for bringing that up. Based on this, I agree that it would be better to make that a day trip by train and boat. And while I mentioned I'd like to drive the Autobahn, I realize it's just a highway and that much of it is speed limited (although by mileage most of it is unlimited) and it's not a must-do for me. It's just a novelty to be able to legally drive as fast as you want on an open highway, and we truly enjoy road trips, so as a gearhead that holds some appeal to me.

Salzburg: As I said earlier, my wife would really like to add Austria to her list, and we wanted to see some Bavarian castle towns in the area, so we chose Salzburg over Fussen. Given its proximity to Munich, I'm thinking it may be smarter to do Salzburg as a day trip from Munich and stay in Munich another night.

Italy: I think we should skip Florence. I would definitely like to visit there, but my wife has already been there and I'm not huge into the arts so I think it would be smarter to add another night in Venice.

France: My wife doesn't want to end the trip in Rome. She did that the last time she went to Europe and just felt overwhelmed before going home, so that's why we chose to end in Paris.

Thoughts?

Wiesbaden is a short and very scenic drive away from Rüdesheim. You can pick up the boat there.

Rothenburg gets all the attention, but it's far from the only walled old town in Germany. In fact, staying in Wiesbaden puts you closer to at least three others that I can think of- Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler, Fritzlar and Büdingen. All three of these are just as scenic, but they lack the trinket shops and tour bus crowds of Rothenburg. And if you can do without a wall, the nearby towns of Marburg and Wetzlar feature much of the same type of architecture.

Hello LTDScott. I think your tentative itinerary looks good. And I agree with what Tom at Lewiston said about Rothenburg. Being at Rothenburg did not do anything for me, other than cause me to feel physically tired. (Walked from the train station to Rothenburg, walked in Rothenburg to a church, walked up the stairs in that church to see the old wood carving). I would not ride in a boat (or small ship) from Koblenz toward Wiesbaden. That is the opposite from the direction of water flow in the Rhine River, therefore the travel time in a boat or ship is longer if a traveler is going from Koblenz toward Wiesbaden. Ride in trains. The day you go from Wiesbaden to Bacharach, I recommend : ride in a K - D ship on the Rhine River from Bingen to St. Goar. And travel in trains from St. Goar to Wiesbaden, getting off from the train at Bacharach for one hour at Bacharach.

Dropping Florence in favour of Venice is a good idea, as is the night train from Salzburg to Venice.
Don't delay in booking as sleeper compartments do sell out.
https://www.oebb.at/en/Travelling_abroad/SparSchiene_Europa/Italy/Timetable_Vienna-Salzburg-Venice/index.jsp
Do you arrive in Brussels on Oct 1st or early morning Oct 2nd? I would still be concerned about hitting the ground running.

Dropping Florence in favour of Venice is a good idea, as is the night train from Salzburg to Venice.
Don't delay in booking as sleeper compartments do sell out.
https://www.oebb.at/en/Travelling_abroad/SparSchiene_Europa/Italy/Timetable_Vienna-Salzburg-Venice/index.jsp
Do you arrive in Brussels on Oct 1st or early morning Oct 2nd? I would still be concerned about hitting the ground running. Perhaps a night from the back end (Paris) to the front end (Bruges)....or start in Amsterdam, adding the Bruges night to Weisbaden.

This is just my preference so don't count it as a criticism because we are all different. You wore me out readiing it. In 21 days I would be able to get past 4 cities and maybe 3 overnights in small towns linking the four cities. You are pushing 11 cities. Also, you are returning home on Friday. You've gone through all the trouble to get there, spend Saturday and Sunday. The jet lag on the return home isn't nearly as bad as the trip over. At least for me. Do it again, change nothing. Just fill in the means of transportation and the times to get between the various points. Then see what it looks like to you.

I've done much of your planned odyssey via rental car, however I never spent that much time in the Rhine River valley. You really should start by going on MapQuest and plotting your cities to see how far they are apart. You'll be surprised at how far your trip will cover. I would suggest you stop in Cologne for 1/2 day going up the Rhine. The Duomo there is absolutely incredible.
Don't think that driving the autobahns are any party. I'd love to get out with the big boys (Big BMWS/Mercedes) running between Stuttgart and Munich in one hour flat, but those 1.0 liter econoboxes I can afford will just get in their way.
Belgium has great beer, but there are many other places I'd rather see than making a detour west from Amsterdam.
And forget that night train from Salzburg to Venice as you'd be missing seeing some of the most incredible scenery anywhere.
When you're on the fast train going out of Venice, just bypass Florence and head for Rome. You don't want to cut your time short there.

we drove from San Diego to Chicago and back in 2 weeks just as a road trip and stayed in a different town every night, but admittedly we had the luxury of having a car to keep our stuff in. I lived in NoCal for 8 years and did over 100,000 vacation miles, with lots of one-nighters. You absolutely cannot compare that to traveling in Europe. It's hardly just being able to keep your stuff in the car.

Karen (Santa Rosa) replied on another thread: "When planning, I create a calendar in excel and plot the itinerary. (sometimes 4-5 versions before finalized). I figure we have 14 waking hours a day out side of the hotel/10 hours getting settled/sleeping/regrouping/getting ready in the morning. Of those 14 hours I note how many hours of actual siteseeing, etc." Try that exercise. Add that you are going to new places, signs in foreign languages, and different transportation systems. How long will it take to find the tram/bus/metro stop, figure out how to buy tickets, which direction to travel in to get to your hotel? You have to drop your bags there before you start sightseeing. If you aren't traveling to the next town first thing in the morning (and using up 1/2 day's sightseeing), you have to arrange to store your bags and then return to pick them up for late afternoon or evening travel. Not only does that eat up lots of time, it wears you out when you have to do it day after day.

Karen (Santa Rosa) replied on another thread: "When planning, I create
a calendar in excel and plot the itinerary. (sometimes 4-5 versions
before finalized). I figure we have 14 waking hours a day out side of
the hotel/10 hours getting settled/sleeping/regrouping/getting ready

Chani, after 35 years of traveling overseas for pleasure and work I still do exactly what Karen does. I rarely follow the plan, but I always know I have a workable fall back and a sound concept.

We've done some reassessing and rearranging to make the trip less hectic and reduce the number of single night stays:

Date Day Start End

2-Oct Fri Amsterdam Amsterdam

3-Oct Sat Amsterdam Amsterdam

4-Oct Sun Amsterdam Amsterdam

5-Oct Mon Amsterdam (Cologne) Nurburgring

6-Oct Tue Nurburgring (Rhine River towns?) Wiesbaden

7-Oct Wed Wiesbaden (Rhine?) Wiesbaden

8-Oct Thu Wiesbaden (Heidelberg or Stuttgart?) Wiesbaden

9-Oct Fri Wiesbaden (Rothenburg or Fussen?) Munich

10-Oct Sat Munich Munich

11-Oct Sun Munich (Dachau) Munich

12-Oct Mon Munich (Salzburg) Munich

13-Oct Tue Munich Venice

14-Oct Wed Venice Venice

15-Oct Thu Venice Rome

16-Oct Fri Rome Rome

17-Oct Sat Rome Rome

18-Oct Sun Rome Rome

19-Oct Mon Rome Paris

20-Oct Tue Paris Paris

21-Oct Wed Paris Paris

22-Oct Thu Paris Paris

23-Oct Fri Fly home

Via points or planned places to visit are in parentheses.

The biggest changes are the elimination of Bruges and traveling from Munich or Salzburg to Venice during the day instead of night. At this point I'm not sure if we'll stay in Munich and do Salzburg as a day trip or actually stay there.

Thoughts?

Better. Well done.

Salzburg - for me the decision would be based on the train routes and schedules to Venice. If the train takes you through Salzburg, stop for a night and see the city. Salzburg (like most places) is better as an overnight than a day trip. Munich to Salzburg is a long day trip - nearly 2 hours just on the train, add the time to get to/from the stations, you're spending at least 5 hours just getting there and back. Personally I don't think it's worth it, and if that's your best option, I'd drop it and spend the extra day in any of your other places.

Mainz is very close to Wiesbaden and well worth a visit.

Leaving from Munich to Venice as opposed to Salzburg does have one advantage in that the train (going through Brenner Pass - part of the reason we switched from night to day) arrives in Venice 2 hours earlier than the train from Salzburg (approx 4pm vs 6pm). It'd be nice to arrive in Venice before dark to get at least a little orientation/sightseeing in that night. Otherwise it's fairly equal.

Regarding Mainz, we're not 100% sure what we'll be doing while staying in Wiesbaden, so we're leaving plans there fairly open. Some of it will depend on what my brother-in-law can or wants to do with us during our stay (he's a Lt. Colonel at the Army base there and has to work while we're there). We're hoping he will at least be able to give us a tour of Wiesbaden/Mainz. Nothing in that part of the trip should require advanced bookings so we can figure it out later.

Shorter total journey time from Salzburg to Venice may be possible with a connection in Villach.
IC592 dep Salzburg 08:12 arr Villach 10:43
EC31 dep Villach 10:50 arr Venice (Mestre) 13:50
I thought the night train option to Venice was a good idea, but day time travel lets you enjoy alpine scenery on the way through.