Could really use some itinerary critiques/advice!

I would suggest you plot your route on a detailed map so you can find the most logical sequence of cities. Then I suggest you go to the Deutsche Bahn website to determine how long each rail segment will take. For example, I believe Vienna to Venice is about 8 hours, which doesn't leave you much time in Venice. And you have some other very long travel days. Assume you will lose one-half to a full day of touring time each time you change locations.

Also please be aware that the French rail system severely limits the number of seats available to pass holders. Therefore, you need to make those reservations as soon as possible. Otherwise, although there are seats available on the train, you'll find there are no seats that can be reserved by pass holders. You then have to either buy a full fare ticket or wait for a train with seats available for pass holders.

While many here will tell you you are doing too much, you will have a grand tour of train stations & Europe from inside a train, the rail pass is more expensive, you need to pay reservations on many trains with the rail pass, etc I can tell you my husband & I have done this type of trip several times. Most recently last May - we had a 30 day rail pass and traveled a similar route. Not once in 30 days did we need nor make a reservation and we were able to travel on many fast trains not just regional. In France and going to Amsterdam you will either have to pay the reservation fee on a TGV - which sell out quickly) and Thalys or take regional trains which will add a little time to your trip but not a lot of time - we took regional trains. Twice we encountered trains that were full - going to & from Innsbruck to Venice - we just sat in the restaurant car and ended up meeting some fellow travelers and enjoyed the trip together! The Austrian Rail has a great & very reasonably priced menu - we had lunch and beer & wine and great conversation with a couple from Australia.

We love the flexibility the pas gives us - we can choose to stay an extra day, leave early, add a place or delete a place - for us that ability is priceless. We enjoy the time on the train seeing the countryside, meeting other travelers, I would update my travel blog offline then send it when we had wifi again. We enjoyed several picnics on the train as I usually had a bottle of wine in my bag and carried two wine glasses with us. I also carried a supply of small paper plates, eating utensils, a small sharp knife for cutting fruit & cheese and an ample supply of ziploc baggies in various sizes. I also had a small coffee maker, coffee, creamers & sugar.

You did not say what time of year you are considering - definitely avoid high season June - August.

Access to the DB site & maps while traveling is necessary to do this kind of trip. You will easily be able to find a route which does not require reservations - you can always pay for a reservation if you want as well.

I would make a reservation for hotel for the next stop the night before we left our current city. I tried to book locations near the train station to avoid lugging bags on local transport and for easy arrival & departure. I used a combination of Google maps, Trip Advisor, booking.com, here & Venere for finding hotels that suited us. I always booked directly with the hotel - in some cases we received a better rate or a free welcome drink for doing so.

You will need to set aside time for laundry a few times along your way - there is a nice in Munich near the Hbf. Pack light! Pack light! Oh - did I mention pack light! Light weight things that dry quickly are handy to wash in the sink and hang to dry by morning. When traveling this way we find the packing cubes help keep everything neat in your bag. We traveled with a carry-on bag each, I had a big purse & DH had a back pack.

The "warrior" method of travel is not for everyone but for us it gives a taste of many places and we can then decide where we want to return for a longer stay in the future.

Your longest travel is Cinque Terre to Provence - 10 to 11 hrs - you might consider breaking that up.

You might consider 2 nights in Vienna and 1 in Salzburg - that would shave almost 3 hrs off your next leg to Venice.

Your last tricky leg will be Provence to Loire Valley - this will be a long day as well and depending on your route may require reservations. Play around with the map & DB site for routes & times.

The rest are 5 hrs or less which can put you in your new location by 1 in the afternoon. With a hotel near train station you can generally check-in, drop your bags and be out out exploring in 30 minutes.

Forgot to mention when we were heading to Europe. We'll be leaving from Seoul on August 27 and will be in Europe until October 7 this year.

Is this a "once in a lifetime" trip, or will you go back to Europe someday? It just seems like you won't have enough time to fully experience each city, and you'll want to go back pretty much everywhere to cover what you missed, so why not cut this trip down to a smaller area and relax a bit? And as others have mentioned, you're spending a lot of time on trains. A lot. The railpasses never struck me as that good of a deal. Europe has plenty low cost airlines that will save you precious time and might even be less than train tickets.

Then again, whirlwind isn't really my style. That's not just a preference but based on experience. On a recent trip to Budapest, Vienna, Salzburg, and Bavaria I spent almost 3 days in the smallest stop, Salzburg, which was enough to pretty well cover it. But only 3 days in Vienna stressed me out since there is so much to do there! And that was after cutting down the trip!

If you insist on whirlwind, please listen to Christi - pack light!!! Navigating a rolling suitcase through train station crowds and up and down escalators will slow you down and wear on your sanity. A backpack each should do it! Amsterdam will be the chilliest location - I went at a similar time of year, and a few layers will keep you warm.

This is definitely not a once in a lifetime. We're looking at this as basically a sampler to see as much as we can in the time we have. I know it may seem a little scattershot, but this is just an overview which I have plans to follow up with the next chance I get. It'll just be so nice to see something different than Korea!

And honestly, we don't mind spending the time on the train. I rather enjoy train travel and it's an experience in Europe that I would like to have.

Though there is a lot I could say, I will just say this. Remember that two nights in a place is only one full day there. Weigh that against the amount of time and expense to get there.

I was going to say that "two days" is only one night, and two half days at best. But maybe I misunderstood.

I will suggest however rewriting the itinerary in terms of nights and also travel, e.g.

Cinque Terre: 2 nights.
Travel day. Sleep Provence.
Travel day, Sleep Loire Valley.

This may make it clearer to you how you will be spending your time.

Essentially what Nancy said.

Remember that there will be travel days (getting from one city to the next) and tour days (days you are in place and can have a look around). Don't expect to do both on the same day.

If you're really efficient, you may get a little tour time on a travel day; it's better to plan to lose the entire day to packing, eating breakfast, checking out, getting to the station, catching your train, making the right connections, getting lunch, getting off at the right station, getting to your lodging, checking in, unpacking, finding dinner.

As a rule a full day at a destination means two nights, with a travel day on either side of your tour day. Two full days is three nights, etc.

I decide how long to stay in a particular place by first researching the sights. I pick my must-sees then divide by two - that's how many full days to plan. While you may be able to see more than two sights in a day, I find planning more gets to be grueling. I plan one in the morning and one in the afternoon - and keep a list of things to see if time permits in my back pocket.

I'll also reiterate the pack light advice. Trains expect you to get on and off quickly and efficiently. If you can't climb on the train while carrying all your luggage in one trip, you're packing too much. In the big train stations, trains will stop for a few minutes and let people on and off. When you get to the small little stations like Rothenburg or Cinque Terra, however, you need to be at the door ready to get off when the train stops. If you wait till you stop to leave your seat, you may not be able to get off before the train starts up again.

Not all travel days are lost. Not sure how it works for others but even a 5 hr train trip to a new destination leaves an afternoon to do or see something. We always try to stay within a 5 to 10 minute walk of the train station. For an 8:30 train we would be up about 6:30, showered, the few items we took out of our suit case would be repacked and down to breakfast by 7 or 10 after at the latest - 30 to 40 minutes for breakfast, back to the room gather our belongings and head out after a quick stop at the front desk to return keys. Usually during breakfast I will ask at the front desk to settle the bill as European Hotels seem to love to print out your receipt ( In the US we usually just drop the room key and tell them we don't need a receipt. Out the door by 8 10 minutes max to the train station find out platform and ready to hop on!

5 hr ride to our new city or town by 1:30 - again 10 minute walk to hotel - if we can in our room we do that or we ask to store the bags. We can be ready and out by 2pm - thats a good 4 - 5 hours for doing what ever in a new city before finding dinner. We never really unpack - just take the items out that we need and put back when done. Sometimes we will opt for grabbing something for breakfast either on the way to or at the train station and sometimes depending on the train & country we will eat on the train.

There are so many options and variables - I work out the details the night before while we are relaxing after our day. This may not work for everyone but it does for us.

This is essentially what we were planning on doing. We had success with a similar approach when we've traveled in Asia. We're both pretty young, only 23, so we don't mind the go-go-go approach. Thanks for the advice!

nowaked19,

i just want to say that i hope you post a post trip report with your observations and what you thought about your "tasting" trip.

It would be interesting to see if you would do it again.

happy trails.

Hi,

Great to have six weeks in Europe. If you are organised and have reserved the hotel or.hostel , you do not lose a day due to packing and unpacking , checking out, getting to the hotel or going to the train station, etc, etc. There are certainly ways of getting around or avoiding those events causing you to write off a day, certainly not at your age, unless you want to loaf...I wouldn't Based on your itinerary, I would cut Cinque Terre , mainly because I have no interest in the place and Rothenburg ob der Tauber. Add that time to Florence or the Loire.

First of all, as suggested above, you don't unpack, you don't need to, only "stuff" needed for the day. On having to wait in line to check out in the morning, no, you do that the night before when no one is at the desk, or you take care of that, ie, pay up front at check in. You avoid taking the bus, subway, worse still, a taxi to the train station on the morning of departure by staying close by, so you can walk it in 2-4 mins to the station. You get any point to point tickets, if need be, when you arrive, or later, not on dep date.

Based on your intinerary, I would go to the Reisezentrum at Berlin Hbf. once you arrive to have the Pass validated. No need to waste time the following morning to do that. Fewer people in the evening there than in the morning. You go in, pull a number, wait for it appear on the monitor. Instructions appear in German and English.

Hi,

Are you flying in to Berlin, landing at Berlin Tegel? Take the TXL bus to Berlin Hbf. Of course, the Reisezentrum at the other stations in Berlin...Bahnhof Zoo, Berlin Ostbahnhof, Bahnhof Friedrichstrasse, etc can validate your Pass. Depending on the time, the main restaurant on the second floor is good for dinner, if you want German food, not too pricey, recommendable.

The Meininger Hostel is two mins to your right as you exit the station on Invalidenstrasse. Where are you staying in Berlin? In which district? At a hotel/Pension or a hostel? If you prefer a hostel, there are much more and newer choices in that regard in the eastern part of the city, esp around Berlin Alexanderplatz, a main junction point for the subways (U and S Bahnen)

Thank you guys so much for your advice!

My partner and I are likely going to cut out the Cinque-Terre and the stop in Tuscany to add those days back onto Rome and Florence, though we've pretty much settled everything we want to do from Germany through Italy, I'm wondering if we should change our approach to France. Originally, I really liked the idea of breaking up the travel from Italy to Paris via the countryside and the towns themselves seem lower maintenance. (At least in comparison to Rome, Florence, and Paris!) A brain break from museums and just exploring the chateaux would be welcome! What do you guys think? Does that make sense? Should we consider extending a stay in either Avignon or Amboise/Loire Valley and cut the other? Or perhaps forgo Provence for the Riviera?

Thanks again! You guys have been super wonderful!

nowaked,

I tend to agree with the others in that your proposed Itinerary is far too "busy". You'll have a good tour of rail stations, but won't have as much time for actually seeing the places you'll be visiting. Keep in mind that each change of location will have a cost in both time and money.

One other point to mention is that Rail Passes do NOT include the supplemental reservation charges which are compulsory on the "premium" trains in Europe, so you'll have to pay out-of-pocket for those. Especially in Italy, if you're caught without valid reservations for the train you're riding on, you'll face hefty fines which will be collected on the spot! The fines are typically about €50 PP and double if not paid on the spot.

A few thoughts and questions.....

• I'd suggest spending 3 days in Berlin. If you're jet lagged, you might not get as much touring done as you planned.
• Where are you planning to visit on the Rhine? Travel from Berlin to that area will probably take about 6 hours, or basically a full travel day.
• You could skip Rothenburg, but if that's important to you I'd suggest making it 2 nights. With only 1 night, by the time you get there it will probably be at least mid-afternoon so you'd only have a few hours to explore the town, and would then leave the next morning.
• I'd suggest planning 4 days in Munich (which is in Bavaria) and using that as a home base to tour that area.
• Rather than taking a day trip from Vienna to Salzburg, I'd suggest skipping one day in Vienna and staying one night in Salzburg. As Venice is your next stop, it's a relatively easy trip from Salzburg to Venice by train. One of the shortest trips is a departure from Salzburg Hbf at 08:12, arriving Venezia S. Lucia at 14:05 (time 5H:53M, one change at Villach).
• I'd suggest staying at least 3 nights in Florence, which includes your "Tuscany" stop. Florence is the capital of Tuscany and you can use that for a home base to explore other parts. For example, it's very easy to take a day trip by Bus from Florence to Siena and back (about an hour each way).
• It would be a good idea to change the order of your stops in Italy slightly. This would be more efficient: Venice - Florence - Rome - Cinque Terre - France. In this case, the C.T. fits well and allows for a reasonably short trip to France.
• You didn't say where in Provence you'd be going, but train from Monterosso to Nice will be about 5-6 hours (depending on which one you use).
• How are you planning to get from Amsterdam to London? Note that your Rail Passes won't be accepted on the EuroStar.
• Your Rail Pass will also not be accepted on some of the rail lines in Europe, such as the new Italo trains in Italy.
• Note that most cities in Europe have more than one rail station, so you'll have to be clear on which stations you want to use in each place you visit. Paris has about six stations.

When are you planning to take this trip?

Train from Berlin to Frankfurt is only 4 hours. Buy your ticket ahead of time to save money. Berlin needs more than 2 days.

From Frankfurt, you could do the Rhine one day, and the next day do Büdingen, an authentic Medieval walled town that is only an hours train ride from Frankfurt.

Then head to Munich, which is in the state of Bavaria. You have 2 days for Munich, 2 for Bavaria. Where in Bavaria did you want to go?

This looks more like a wish list than an itinerary.

Your list is sorely missing in travel time. Some of your trips take all day. From which town is that time taken? For instance,"Rothenburg/Romantic Road, 1 day". Rothenburg is easily worth a full day or more. Just driving the Romantic Road from Rothenburg to Füssen takes 4 hours (public transportation takes longer) and it's the towns along the Road that make it worthwhile. And it will take half a day (4+ hours) to get there from the Rhein.

Maybe take the 3 days for Rothenburg/Romantic Road and Bavaria, spend a day (after travel time to get there) in Rothenburg, and then see other nearby places, like Nürnberg or Bamberg, or some of the northern Romantic Road (Würzburg, Bad Mergentheim, Dinkelsbühl, Nördlingen, et al).

I suggest you build a true itinerary starting from day 1. Figure out what you want to see in Berlin. Is that 2 days, or 1½ days plus travel to the Rhein (6 hours±)? Build from there. I think you will run out of days before you get to the end.