Cost-effective approaches to 10 day tour across Europe

I think it sounds absolutely crazy to take a toddler on such an intense trip, no matter what the price. The rest of the tour group is going to hate you by the end of it. This is coming from a mom who has traveled extensively with her kids. Do it yourself and slow it down. Maybe just London and Amsterdam, for example.

Or Belgium and Netherlands, since travel distances/times will be short.

Max,

Ive been to everyplace you list except Bruges (yet)

What i would say in general about tours is that if they are going to where you want go great. Same thing if you are going to where they are going also great. So i would ask myself, are those the places you want to go.

All of the places i have been including those, i have had little issues finding the places you mentioned. I will state that on some of them, i didnt see since it didnt interest me. For instance the Mannekin Pis is sort of hard to miss with all of the tourist hanging around it. All you need to do is to head down the right street(s) and you will find it. The Atomium isnt in town but its one train ride away and thats how i found it.

some thoughts:

Amsterdam is a really walkable city. Just love the place.

London. Walkable but spread out. But the + side is the tube. love using it and wish we had one, but that give me reason to go back to london.

Paris is large and spreadout too, but again, the Metro makes getting around easy.

Brussels is compact too. I think the only time i took public transportation was to the Atomium and the Brussels army museum and that was because it was raining.

I guess if your are not the types that want to spend time planning a trip or have any friend you can tag along with then a tour is probably your next best bet.

as far as the price goes for what you are going to do/see in those 10 days, for me that 4k will last ME approximately 4 weeks. But thats for me going solo.

you dont say if that 4k is for flight to/from your local airport or not. But i guess if its included, its not that bad for 2 people for 10 days and 4 cityies. I dont consider your 2 y/o as people since he may not care where you go and what you do as long as you dont leave him behind.

you can also look at it as a per day rate. So 4k into 10 days per 2 people thats about 200 per person per day. i try to keep all or most of my expenses between 100~200 per day. Depending on where i go, its possible.

If you do the trip let us (me) know how it goes and your thoughts.

happy trails.

Just because they throw affordable into their title, it doesn't make them automatically affordable. Is that $4000 for both of you? If it is, then it is reasonable around $400 a day. Remember the big (and maybe only) advantage is that they take care of everything so you have to pay a good fee for that convenience. However, traveling with under two on an organized tour can be a problem. Under two tend to have their own schedule which could be in conflict with the tour schedule. Tour generally have pretty tight schedules especially when traveling between cities. And how is he going to deal with naps on the many long bus rides you have with the tour. Personally I would not do it at any price. Isn't it time for a little grandparent bonding?

To compare tour value issues, see Rick's list at http://www.ricksteves.com/tours/why-travel-with-us/the-most-value-for-your-money. Rick's 10-day tours in that region cost less than $4,000 but don't include airfare and also don't accept travelers under age 8.

Seeing all the same highlights as an independent traveler usually takes a bit longer and doing it with a toddler could throw that timing all out the window. See also http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/trip-planning/kids-in-europe. Rick's full-sized (not Pocket) "City" guides for London and Paris include chapters focused on kids, but the attractions that interest school-aged kids won't apply for toddlers.

I think to adequately address the question of value on your tour, there are some key considerations that need to be addressed.

1. How many meals are included each day?
2. Are all entrance fees included in the price of the tour?
3. Will this tour even allow a 2 year old on the tour? If they do, will they charge you for the extra seat this toddler and his/her car seat will take up on the bus?

Would you feel comfortable going to Europe as Independent travelers? I believe that Independent travel might be a better option for your current situation and am extremely confident that your family could cover hotel room, travel, meals and admissions with a $400 day budget in most locations.

You would have the flexibility to enjoy yourselves and match your points of interest and schedule with your family's personal needs.

The Rick Steves travel center has travel consultants (for a fee) that you can call and do travel planning with if you are a little unsure about how to get started.

First, this tour isn't appropriate for a toddler. All three of you would be constantly stressed.
Second, note how many times the description says "view" instead of "visit". There's a lot of drive-by viewing from the bus without stopping.
Finally, you've come to the right place to ask the question because you can put a trip together yourself, staying in one or two cities, but really getting to visit them, for about the same if you are careful with your money. See the Rick Steves books and please come back with more questions. People here will be happy to answer them.

Bets just beat me to it.

Words in package tour descriptions have meaning.

Every time they use the work "view" means looking out the window of your big bus, often while moving. Maybe the attraction will be on your side, sometimes (maybe 50% on average) it will be on the other side, unless the driver goes past turns around and comes back the other side.

You know your "kid" better than we do. Is it a sleeper or a squirmer? Either way I'm not sure that being cooped up in a crowded bus all day every day would be a lot of fun for them. Or probably you.

If you are the sort of traveler who would like to be immobile and check off places through a window it might be OK for the two of you.

If you want to interact with places, maybe not.

BTW - that tour sounds like it passes half a dozen of the "usual" attractions in each place but only in London do you get to actually see much.

A couple of thoughts on the UK section:

I have never heard or read anybody describing the Channel Tunnel ("Chunnel" is a nickname used when it was being constructed, but not used very much now except by some cutesy/nostalgic people) as a "Wonder of the Modern World". You pass through it at high speed and there's really nothing aesthetic about it.

Most Londoners do not consider Westminster as part of the "West End", which is the shopping/entertainment area around Oxford Street, Piccadilly, Leicester Square and Charing Cross Road.

There is no such thing as the "West End Theatre". There are many theatres in the West End, but none called that.

It is not possible to do an in-depth visit to the Tower and St Paul's in one morning. It is also not possible to visit all the London attractions mentioned in one day.

Anybody who recommends Madame Tussauds loses multiple points for knowledge and cultural understanding in a second.

I very much doubt, in fact am certain, that none of the tour companies listed on the "affordable tours" website would permit a small child on their bus tours, especially one under two years old. The OP needs to verify this before further dreaming takes place.

Hi Max-
I have to agree with many of the posts above. This is a terrible itinerary for a toddler, and he/she will likely be miserable - as will you.

I'm also bothered by the many mentions of "view", "panoramic" and "drive": this means all you'll be doing is spending time on a bus and not experiencing anything at all but merely snapping photos out the window.

Too many places in much too short a time, IMHO - which is why all they're doing is driving through most of them.

And as Phillip wisely noted, any tour company which recommends Madame Tussauds is suspect. :O)

I'd recommend taking some of the excellent suggestions for a less frantic itinerary to fewer places, and consider doing it independently so that there's more time to really explore them. This will be much easier on your child, and allow flexibility for visiting a few parks and playgrounds more suited to his/her age. Being cooped up on a bus for hours, day after day, is just no fun for an active toddler. Heck, I'd be miserable too!

I had a further thought. About three years ago we traveled with our son, dil, and 18 month old granddaughter. She set the pace. We used apartments and changed locations once in ten days. Even with a doting grandmother and mother, she took a lot of time. And if she missed a nap the rest of the day was a challenge. With four of us it was easy to trade baby sitting but our sightseeing time was seriously reduced from what we can do by ourselves. I seriously would rethink the idea of taking a two year old on a bus tour.

When my parents, daughter, and I went to Costa Rica several years ago, it was on a bus tour. We had at least two off-the-bus tours (rainforest and cloudforest tours, volcano hiking, etc.) as well as free time each day. My daughter recently said to me, "I would love to go back to Costa Rica, but not if we have to be on a bus,". And she was an adult herself at the time. I can't even imagine spending that much bus time with a toddler.

Lots of great advice--thank you everyone. Many good points about toddlers and traveling. A couple of months ago my kid was great on a 12 hour car ride (maybe 3 or 4 stops, which were mostly needed by adults). Of course, that doesn't mean it would be the same on the tour bus. He is also generally good in his stroller. Some have pointed out that a "beach" vacation may be better for his age, so we are looking into that as well.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the issue with Madame Tussauds (tacky?)?

Thanks again for all of the helpful comments--will circle back to wife and discuss.

I wouldn't want to go on this tour as an adult, let along with a small child in tow.

Lots of posters have already pointed out that "view" means a drive by, panoramic view means you are sitting on a double decker bus, maybe with the top open. So, you are in Paris, but the tour drives by all the sights, you don't even get to go to the top of the Eiffel Tower or go inside Notre Dame! In the Netherlands, they make that visit to a cheese factory, a fishing village and wooden shoe factory sound pretty charming. They aren't. Here you are in Holland and you just drive past the fields of flowers, no stops at any of the beautiful parks like Keukenhof. Most of this is a bus tour with a guide sitting on a bus telling you what you are looking at through your window. For a high price too.

Two of the tour companies, among others, listed on affordabletours.com are Cosmos & Globus, neither of which accept children under eight years old on their bus tours. The question of taking a toddler becomes moot.

The issue of the toddler on a tour is an important one. On the Affordable Tours website under the family tours section it shows a toddler or two in the pictures of the tours. But it also makes it clear that each tour operator sets the minimum age for the tour so you have to check each tour to see if a toddler would be welcome. On most of them that would be a 'no'. I have traveled on tours with some of these companies and most of the tour participants were upper middle-aged or better and a toddler would have been not only out of place but unwelcome.

I agree with the posters who suggest you do it on your own. With a little one that is the best way to go and with a little research and help from those on here who have traveled with toddlers, you can do it. And it may end up being less expensive too.

If you want to do Europe with a very small human and enjoy at least some outdoor activities, my Germany and Austria-based friends rave about the kinderhotel lodgings in Austria and surrounding areas.

http://www.kinderhotels.co.uk/index-en.html

The ones near the Alps ski areas might make for a good base camp for exploring nearby villages, (and in general are a great area for kids) and self-drive in Austria & Germany is pretty straightforward- just don't linger in the left lane on an autobahn.

Max,

The others have provided a good evaluation of the "deficiencies" of a tour of this type, and the fact that you'll probably be seeing much of Europe through the window of your (crowded) tour bus. The other issue that's been pointed out is the aspect of travelling with a two-year-old (which the tour company may not even allow).

It would help to have a bit more information about your circumstances. For example......

• where are you from?
• is this your first trip to Europe? Are you familiar with travel by train in Europe?
• Is the $4K for all of you or per person? Does that include air fare?
• what places are you most interested seeing in Europe?

With more information, it will be easier for the group here to offer suggestions for your specific situation.

If you really want to make a visit to Europe, my suggestion (as you'll be travelling with a toddler) would be to do this trip on your own rather than with a guided tour. You'll be able to keep a more relaxed schedule, and tailor your sightseeing to the requirements of your child (ie: naps or feeding). You'll also be able to see more of the sights in the places you visit although you probably won't be able to get to as many cities as the tour. I think "quality" rather than "quantity" will provide a more enjoyable trip for all of you.

Happy travels!

Ken,

We are from China/Singapore/U.S. This is first Europe trip. We have no familiarity with travel within Europe. 4k is total--includes airfare for 2 adults, not toddler (so suppose have to add that in). Regarding your last question, we are very open. Interests include government/politics, financial/economic history, languages. Interested in public spaces, transportation within and between European countries. When it comes to things like art, would want to see what everyone sees (i.e., the Louvre). Historical monuments are welcome. This is too general, so working on how to better articulate our vision and expectations.