convenience vs budget

Kevin,

Although convenience and flexibility are important, a Pass is usually not a good option in Italy as P-P tickets are relatively inexpensive there (especially on the fast trains if pre-purchased). As you may be aware, travel on the "fast" trains in some countries requires a compulsory seat reservation.

In France these are on a quota for Pass holders and once a particular train is sold out, you won't be able to use your Pass (even if there are still seats available). Your only choice will be to buy a regular ticket or book on a different train that still has Pass holder reservations left.

Tickets for fast trains in Italy can be pre-purchased well in advance at considerable savings (as low as €9 in some cases), which is probably much less than the daily cost of the Pass. However, the cheap tickets are non-refundable and non-changeable. Since seat reservations in Italy are specific to train, date and departure time, you'd have to commit to using one specific train if buying in advance. Even with a Rail Pass, if you're caught without valid reservations for the train you're riding on, you'll face hefty fines which will be collected on the spot. You'll still have to commit to one specific train, date and departure time when buying reservations to supplement your Pass.

When travelling with a pass in France or Italy, on long distance and high speed trains, you also need to make a reservation (and pay for it) before getting on the train. On French TGV trains, there is a limited quota on these.
Read this page (and the rest of this site) for more info: http://seat61.com/Railpass-and-Eurail-pass-guide.htm

A rail pass is very convenient and flexible to use in Switzerland and Germany, where most trains don't need seat reservations. In France and Italy, paid seat reservations are required for most medium-speed and faster trains, and the process to buy those is the same as buying tickets. See more about Seat Reservations.

In France, the number of places for pass holders is quite limited on TGV trains. If you were buying point-to-point tickets for these, you could also get significant discounts to book ahead. Either way, France really pushes you toward planning months in advance for TGV. A regional train in France, such as from Paris to Normandy, does not need reservations and so does not have the same issues. DB train schedules online are the most objective resource to tell you which routes are subject to compulsory reservation.

Ideally, a Global pass or other rail pass should save you money. If you have a pretty firm route plan, you can start to do the math. It would also be possible to get a smaller pass for just Switzerland or Switzerland and Germany, the part where passes really add convenience, and also give you significant lift discounts and other bonuses.

We are in Europe much of the year in various countries, including the 4 you are visiting and nothing beats having a Eurail Pass. It is flexible and convenient and you can use it in multiple countries and go where you want to go when you want to go. If you have a Eurail pass, it is the most convenient and flexible way to travel in Europe.

One hint is that in some places-like France- you will want to get to the station extra early to be sure to get a seat. We do and have never failed to get one. If you buy a one month pass from www.eurail.com now, you will get 5 extra days of travel free so you could choose to stay a few days longer.

Many Thanks to all for your comments and advice
I'll dig much deeper into the links you have provided
Happy Travels to all
Kevin

"The wife and I will be travelling through France, Switzerland, Germany and Italy in Sept - Oct and travelling on trains at least 12 days out of 30."

Do you actually require full flexibility for all 12 travel days?
How many of those 12 days are major travel legs? How many might be short hops, or day trips, journeys that could be paid for as you go for less (day passes, for example?)

I'm thinking you might want a railpass of some sort for some of your trips - and alternative ticketing strategies for others.

For those long journeys that require reservations, I'd be interested in sacrificing flexibility in favor of pre-purchased p2p tix.

Trips between Germany and France, or Germany and Switzerland, can be very inexpensive at DB when pre-purchased 91 days out.

If you have 3+ long journeys in Germany (like Berlin - Munich) look into the German railpass.

The German railpass now offers IC bus routes to Italy as well.

For short outings in Germany, local daypasses are great - buying extra railpass days for these is usually not worthwhile.

It's hard to provide anything more specific without knowing your destinations.

BTW, there's no rush to buy a railpass - I'd wait until 2 weeks prior or so in case your plans change.

I've found point-to-point tickets inexpensive in Italy, especially if you can plan your travel up to 120 days in advance. As previous posters pointed out, value depends on length of journey, country, etc. Many countries have their own railpasses or other discount tickets (for example, Germany has a reduced-price ticket for off-peak travel times during the day).

If it's not a question of economy, I would buy point-to-point tickets so that I can decide to extend my stay if I want.

I've found that even buying 2nd class tickets at full price in Germany is often cheaper than the daily cost of third party rail passes (although this is not always true, depending on the length of the route). The only method of travel that is consistently more expensive is buying full cost 1st class tickets, and for most non-business travelers, 2nd class is more than comfortable. And buying tickets from the automats couldn't be easier or more convenient. If you you can use an ATM, you can figure out how to use these machines.

As already noted, Deutsch Bahn also offers all sorts of discounts for regional and off-peak travel.

So for cost in Germany, third party rail passes are almost always one of the most expensive methods of travel. And unless you're scared to death of using a ticket automat or spending the 1 minute it will take to purchase your tickets, the extra convenience offered by a rail pass amounts to little.

Hi,

With the extra days option going on if purchased by 31 March, your per day expense on the Global Pass is even more economical. Figure out the total cost of the Pass in Euro, then you'll know what it is per day. I use a Pass, but not the Global since it omits Poland. Depending on the way you want to travel and where, short distance, long rides, zig zag, night train, etc. you will have the flexibility, eg, you board in Berlin Hbf to do a day in Leipzig but you see that ICE train goes on Jena. Instead you decide to get off at Jena, place of greater interest than Leipzig to you and for which you don't have a ticket. But with the Pass that whimsical decision can be done.

Having 30 days on the trip is good for a Pass, even better if you combine using Global Pass on a night train in regards to expense and flexibility, which I see you don't want to sacrifice for savings. . Save using the Pass for the ICE train in Germany, or crossing from Frankfurt to Switzerland, or Munich to Berlin, etc.

True, that France imposes a quota which you might encounter, say going from Paris to Frankfurt ICE or TGV direct. I've been caught in that quota. Chances are you won't be in that Pass quota. Your trip is "off season." My trips in France were always in the summer high season. Keep in mind that the Global Pass allows you to sit in 2nd class if you choose to or if 1st seat reservations are no longer to be had. If you're caught like that where you can't use the Global Pass, then it depends on the clerk behind counter and how helpful or innovative s/he is in getting you across the border say in this case, try the TGV to Metz or Strasbourg.

Fred - As of this January, the Eurail Global Pass now covers Poland.

Terri Lynn - When was the last time that you used a rail pass for a TGV? Just showing up early is not adequate advice for any French train that requires a seat reservation. When reservations are required, the number of places for pass holders is artificially limited and we have been told that the reservations are not even for sale in the French computers less than three days before the departure of the scheduled train.

If convenience is more important than budget, then definitely look at a pass, especially if you want to be free to go wherever and whenever you want, just be aware that even with passes there can be the need for reservations which cost extra so the cost of the pass sometimes gets higher than expected.

As far as budget - I traveled around central Europe for 35 days through Belgium, Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Poland, and Hungary. My transportation was all by train (except for one bus) including 8 longer trips between base locations plus day trips by train on at least 12 of those days. I priced out the P to P tickets, some purchased at discounts ahead of time and some the day before (or of) travel - total costs were a savings of about $300 over a pass for that length of time and amount of travel. For me that was a huge savings as I travel on a tight budget and since I knew when I would be traveling from place to place it was not any more inconvenient than a pass.

@ Laura...That's fantastic news. C'est formidable! With Poland part of the Global Pass, that's a big incentive to get that Pass esp with the feature of 3 extra days included. Conceivably, you can go Paris to Warsaw using one Pass day. On the sale of reservations literally one day before departure, say from Paris Est to Frankfurt Hbf, I've gotten that but barely. My Pass was 1st class but was told that the 2nd class (I asked for that ) reservation quota had been filled since the 2nd class reservation is sometimes half the 1st in price. Then I asked about 1st class, was told a few were still available, so I paid for that, ...pretty pricey for the next day's early morning departure on the ICE..

A very good introduction to the issue of railpasses vs tickets is here, from The Man In Seat 61: http://tinyurl.com/bkw4u6c