Continental flight went down

Rick's story is that he takes his pen out of his front pocket because he has concerns of being impaled by it in the case of a crash. He says he isn't particularly afraid of flying, but doesn't like it. He sees it as a means to an end.

In regards to the Continental crash, you do have to take it into context. The flight was being operated by a regional operator with a turboprop aircraft. Both of those conditions lead to a higher risk statistically.

Commercial jet aviation is safer than regional jet aviation which is safer than regional turboprop aviation which is safer than general aviation.

It is truly a sad thing when something like this happens, but as you said, flying is a much safer option than driving.

I have to say flying doesn't worry me at all. It kind of interests me how many people I know who are frightened of flying and yet drive like idiots. I think flying doesn't frighten me because I know most people will die in an air crash. The thought of being left brain-damaged or paralysed in a car crash worries me. I once saw a very indepth documentary about what exactly happens to the brain in a car crash. It's made me much happier about flying!

Hi Eli, Yes, I too hate reading about crashes, I am not fond of flying, but I love to travel , so I just deal with it( ok, I drug myself too,LOL ) .

One thing that has started to help me a bit with my fear of flying( which btw I only developed after I had children, as a younger person I had no fear at all) is to think " right now thousands of aircraft are taking off and landing all over the world safely". It helps to put it in perspective.

I also get Lauras point, at least I figure going in a airplane crash is fairly fast and instanaeaous( the actual impact anyways) , thats why I don't mind drugging myself,, I do not particualarily believe being "alert and awake" is more likely to help me live through a crash,, first , mostly everyone dies, and secondly, even if survive it seems the "drunk" drivers relaxed body always helps them survive a crash better then everyone else involved in the crash in a car, so I figure being calm and relaxed may be to my advantage in a plane crash( what I take would not actually make on unconcisous anyways).

Pat, your comment about being alert during a crash makes me laugh. I take 1/2 a sleeping pill during an overseas flight & I've been told it's a bad idea during a flight. I take it right after dinner is served & we're over the ocean. Why would I want to be wide awake if I'm headed for the deep.

Sadly, a person on the ground was also killed. People die when planes crash into their homes. Look at September 11...most people killed were simply at their offices. But I've never met anyone who fears sleeping at home or going to work because a plane might hit them. Fears and real statistical odds seem to be unrelated. I've known chain smokers and maniac drivers, refusing to wear seat belts, who would never get on an airplane. We all know what is statistically more likely to kill them. However, the IDEA of flying is more scary and dramatic, despite statistics, maybe because as humans, no matter how much we know about science, flying around in the air should be impossible, and therefore fatally dangerous. Some people are comforted by understanding physics and some people have more trouble getting past basic human feelings, regardless of knowledge. I've gotten pretty good at reasoning with myself and talking myself out of fear. I tell myself that fear won't save me from anything, it'll only limit my life. This has freed me to enjoy my life much more fully.

Eli, this also says to me that you are a caring, feeling person. Having had a recent loss in your life, you are more likely to feel the pain of other familys' loss and pain more deeply. But you seem like a person who can put it into perspective and move on. Take care!

Terry, I think another reason people are more afraid of a plane crash, rather than a car crash, is that in a plane you have absolutely no control over what happens. You put your life in the hands of the pilot, and you really cannot get yourself out of that type of situation. That is why I think I have a fear of flying...at least when I am driving I am in control.

This model of aircraft (Q400) has had problems in the past . This article explains that. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492325,00.html Maybe Continental will ground all these models after this crash. We're flying Continental in September and I just checked, and no legs of our flight include this model of aircraft thank goodness!
I'm still not afraid to fly. Crashes are so few and far between in commercial aircraft, that if my plane crashes, it was truly my time to go.

Jenifer, I think you're absolutely right. It's very frightening to feel helpless. I have to talk myself out of feelings of claustrophobia, too. In most cases in life, we comfort ourselves with the thought that we have the ability to run away. That's why we dream that we are trying to run and can't move. Flying involves putting our basic instincts on hold.

hahaha...why do we torture ourselves! oh ya...to see amazing places :) and it is worth it.

The more we suffer, the greater the reward! (...flying can be like childbirth..ha)

I was just reading a report last week that there hasn't been a death from a commercial airline crash in 4 years.

Logically, I know I have a greater risk of being killed in my car than on a plane. But I still get more nervous when my husband flies for a work trip than when he drive over 20 miles to get to work every day.

Since airline accidents and deaths are so rare they receive generous news coverage and this coverage heightens our awareness and fear.

Auto accidents are so frequent they are too far too ordinary to merit valuable broadcast time and newsprint space. These deaths are simply too common to be news.

So, keep that in mind: News by definition is an extraordinary or unique occurence and therefore unlikely--that's why you hear so much about it. Many more people die of influenza each year than from airline crashes. And, that's why the news doesn't cover this-- because it's common and boring.

I hope that helps. I don't want you to be fearful of the flu instead!

A few points...this was not a Continental Airlines plane. It belonged to Colgan Airways which flies certain routes under the Continental banner.

Colgan recently started flying this type of aircraft and it was the largest type in their fleet. Up until last year, Colgan was a privately owned airline. It has since been sold to Pinnacle Airways.

As a former private pilot, I'm going to guess that it was icing conditions that caused the plane to go down even though we won't know officially for months.

The last fatal airline crash in the U.S. was the Comair flight in Kentucky in the summer of 2006.

Considering how many airline flights there are a day, we've had two crashes since the Comair flight...the USAir plane in the Hudson where, thankfully, everyone got off safely. And this one, sadly, where no one did.

To get a driver's license, you have to pass a simple written test, pass an eye test, and show you can safely handle a car. No big deal.

To become a captain of an airliner, even a regional one like the one that crashed, you have to have logged at least 2500-3000 hours of flight time- and renew your license every six months which consists of a full physical and a simulated flight test where numerous emergencies are thrown at you. If you don't pass, you don't fly. (Even though first officers don't have to have anywhere near the experience of a Captain, have rules to follow. If they are flying the aircraft and there is a hint of a problem, the captain will take control of that aircraft immediately.

I feel much safer flying on any type of commercial airliner than I do driving with some of the idiots on the highway near my home. And that's saying a lot because pilots can be the worst air passengers since we know what's going on "up front."

BTW...most regional jets you fly on are not owned by the major airlines even if their name is on it.

If you live in a major city, buy a police scanner and LISTEN. It will hit you that you probably have a MUCH greater chance of getting killed on the way TO the airport then in the air.

I live in Atlanta. To me the most dangerous portion of the trip.... the drive to and from the airport LOL! The average pilot is MUCH better trained then the drivers around here.

Here's a little hint to figure out if you're flying on the major airline you booked with or another:

If your flight number is 3000 or above:

Domestically--you're probably flying with a regional carrier.

Internationally--you're flying with a major carrier but not the one you're booked with.

As an example...Delta 8517 from ATL to CDG is actually an Air France flight.

Delta 5874 from Atlanta to Cincinnati is actually a regional jet operated by Pinnacle Airways.

These are known as codeshares.

My two sons are flying out in a few hours to California for the weekend. For the first time, they are a bit nervous because of the recent crash of Continental flight and crash landing of a British Airways this morning, being Friday, the 13th doesn't help! I use to love to fly when I was younger, but the first flight with my children (11 mos and 3 yrs) to RI was right after that plane went down in the everglades. Since then, I worry a little when flying. I am white knuckled, eyes shut on take off. But once the plane reaches altitude, I am fine.

Isn't if funny how some of us develope the fear later in life..I USED to think turblence was fun,, seriously as a kid I thought "bumpy air " was fun!

The BA flight at London City Airport Friday night was not officially a crash. The front landing gear collapsed upon landing.

It's not that unusual--as compared to crashes--and rarely cause any serious injuries.

And Frank, speaking of pilots' experience, look at Captain Sullenberger from that US Air flight. What an amazing pilot! I only pray that every flight I take has someone that talented flying the plane!

OMG! Frank had to mention the front landing gear. I'm always terrified something would go wrong with that, or worse yet, that the tyres would blow out! Then that crash way back always comes to mind...Ohio I think? Remember that one? I torture myself for weeks before, but the day of the flight I would not dream of cancelling. I do however take my tranquilizer before getting on board. Once the flight is not bumpy, I'm okay about moving around, and usually fine.

Anyway, I did mention when I returned that this time coming back (NJ to Houston)I decided not to take a pill, and of course we had to have pretty bad turbulence which stopped them from serving snacks. Oh well, I tried and will try again :-)

Say, YAAAYYYYYYY Eli, LOL

I have had near death experiences both whilst flying and driving. The flying incident was an aborted landing during a storm. The driving incident was a skid on a wet road which was entirely my own fault. I think that when you are driving you think that you are in control of the situation, though you may be kidding yourself. I do remember that the flying incident was more scary because I had more time to think about. We spent an hour in the air after the aborted landing, a lot of time to think of what could go wrong. However in the end the plane landed safely, and I have to say the pilot did an excellent job.

Sorry, but an aborted landing hardly qualifies as a "near-death experience." An aborted landing just means the pilot thought it would be safer to try it again. Happens all the time, is not necessarily a big deal.

I'd describe an aborted landing more akin to driving along on an interstate highway and approaching an exit, moving over into the exit lane but then at some point pulling back into the interstate and decidinig to take the next exit instead. Sure, if that happens at the very last second, it can be a bit more stressful, but most of the time there's never any danger, and it's a maneuver that the crew trains for many times.

Now, I can understand that some folks are skittish about flying (especially today), but there's no need to over-dramatize things that are probably fairly routine and quite safe.

Just one pilot's opinion.

Watching all the coverage of this accident, I heard that you have more of a chance of being stuck by lightning TWICE then being killed in a plane accident. My ex husband's grandfather or great-grandfather was out fishing when a storm rolled in. He tried to find shelter under a tree and was struck by lightning. He survived, but it melted the coins in his pocket. I am not sure of how much time past, but he decided to go fishing one day and once again a storm rolled in and once again hid under a tree and was struck by lightning a second time. I guess God thought if he could'nt learn from the first time, he would not give him another chance. He died. I never said that I married into that family for their brains!

Tecd, an aborted landing would make a nervous flyer , well, more nervous, but , I have to agree with David, it isn't really a near death experience.
Once when we landed in Hawaii, the plane at the very last minute before land impact pulled up ,, it was horrible as it made me immediatly feel very nausated,, but it wasn't a near death experience,, it was uncomfortable and sickning,, and we had to wait another 15 minutes or so in the air before pilot could take his turn at runway again,, que sera sera.

It does help if you are kept informed by cockpit of what has just happend, I agree the lack of control or konwing what is going on does create more fear or stress.

I was going to write what David (Seattle) wrote about aborted landings but felt too many people on this board were already skittish.

As a pilot, I've aborted landings when they just didn't feel right. I've also had to abort landings when the plane landing in front didn't clear the runway in time. In basic private pilot training, not only are you taught how to do this but encouraged to do so if the approach doesn't feel comfortable.

My instructor used to say "Good approach, good landing. Bad approach, bad landing. There is no shame in going around.

Since these types of incidents--crashes, landing gear failure, etc--are so rare, the media makes a big deal about them when they actually happen.

My mind keeps wandering to this tragic incident...I must admit. I stayed up most of the night watching the footage on tv. It hit closer to home with me b/c I'm qualified on that particular Aircraft and can only imagine what it must have been like.

It was hard to wrap my head around since only the night or two before the Heroic Crew of US Airways Hudson Ditching was on CNN. It was a feel good moment.

I was so overjoyed that the Crew was able to do what we train extensively and annually for and successfully evacuated ALL of the Passengers to safety...And then this happens...I'm deeply saddened.

The kind of aircraft that travelers here are in flying to Europe, flying from North America or Australia to Europe, are much safer than the regional turbo-prop that crashed. The large Boeing and Airbus jets that are used to fly long distances over oceans are, statistically, the safest kind of aircraft there are: well-equipped, modern, with well-trained pilots and flight crew.You're much safer flying to Europe than you are driving around Italy.

"The BA flight at London City Airport Friday night was not officially a crash. The front landing gear collapsed upon landing.

It's not that unusual--as compared to crashes--and rarely cause any serious injuries."

Frank, to be technical, the NTSB never uses the word 'crash', instead 'accident' or 'incident' (I'm pretty sure the AAIB doesn't use the term 'crash' anywhere in their reporting as well). Accidents are defined as "an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage". Incidents are defined as "an occurrence other than an accident, associated with the operation of an aircraft, which affects or could affect the safety of operations.

Therefore, both would technically be classified as accidents... not crashes. Further classified... one fatal, one non-fatal. As a fellow pilot I'm surprised you would use the "C" word.

Not trying to bust your chops but lately I've seen some of the 'seasoned' posters around here quick to dig on someone when they may be, oh... misinformed. Had to take my shot. ;)

Technically, Gary, and not to bust your chops, but neither event would be classified as anything since the NTSB final report has not been issued.

And I've met pilots who call them lots of things...crashes, hard landings, and my favorite was a Navy flyer who spoke about putting his plane "on the deck." And that had nothing to do with aircraft carriers.

However, when talking to lay people, you speak their language.

For the same reason when the media played the ATC tapes, when a "Pirep" was requested, it was transcribed as "unkonwn' or unitelligible." They had not idea what it meant.

Gary,

I fly often and internationally and have no "fear of flying". The "alphabets" may not call it a crash, the airline may not call it a crash, pilots may not call it a crash and you may not, but I'll call it whatever I want whenever the plane goes down before I want it to. And I bet most of us do. Baloney is baloney however you slice it and what the alphabets feed us is usually baloney.

"Technically, Gary, and not to bust your chops, but neither event would be classified as anything since the NTSB final report has not been issued."

Not true Frank. Generally, a preliminary report is available online within a few days of an accident. Factual information is added when available, and when the investigation is completed , the preliminary report is replaced with a final description of the accident and its probable cause.

For instance, US Airways Flt 1549, Occurrence Type: "Accident". Current Synopsis: "Preliminary". Event Severity: "Nonfatal".

Gary. Thank your for pointing out that technically I was wrong. Oh my , how could I make such a terrible mistake.

I was trying to help those here who are fearful of flying to understand what was happening in air travel and perhaps lessen their fear just a little. I dared to use "their" terminology rather than pilot speak which, of course, is unforgivable to people like you.

Okay, I will make you happy. You are the better man and probably the better pilot because you use the proper terminology all the time.

Feel better?

One question...just how starched are your shirts?

Frank, no worries, it happens.

You did a great job helping others understand what was going on in air travel... don't kid yourself. I'll forgive you on the terminology.

Coming from a board regular I'll sure take that as a compliment so....

Yes, yes I feel better. Thanks mate.

Light.

;)

I admit my use of the term "near death" was overly dramatic. It was nevertheless a frightening experience, and the next few flights I took, even the mildest turbulence had me gripping the seat handles.

As a private pilot and small plane owner with over 1000 hours of logged flight time, I can honestly say that the "fear factor" involved in flying my plane is no higher or lower than driving my automobile. It's like anything else in life, the more you do it, the easier it becomes. My flight instructor once told me,jokingly, after a bounced landing....any landing you can walk away from is a success....or any landing is just a controlled crash. It is also proven in statistical data that the most dangerous part of any aviation trip, is the automobile ride to and from the airport. When an act of nature occurs, be it birds in the engine, severe icing, or wind sheer, you just have to chalk it up to fate...when your time is up...it's up. Cheers, and keep on flying!

In the Airline Industry, the preferred term that I'm familliar with is "incident".

Speaking from personal experience as an Incharge Purser operating many safe flights on the Dash 8 Turbo Prop Aircraft...

The Cabin Crew are just as skillfully trainned on these Regional Aircraft as any other. The Inflight Safety standards are high and no more or less so than larger Aircraft. Let's not forget that...

Safe Skies,

F/A

Last weekend I flew United to Las Vegas. Not sure if it's just a United thing but we could plug earphones in and listen to air traffic control. Thought it was pretty cool...

It's a United thing, I think. When we flew United, we had that. I haven't had that with Lufthansa or Alaska, though. I love it!

I hate flying! I do it because it's the easiest way to get to Europe, and we travel to Europe every year. When the plane takes off, my husband and I hold hands and I say "God, I place my life in your hands - please keep us save, especially our pilot".
I too take a pill, usually ambien. I take 1/2 before dinner, and 1/2 about an hour after dinner. Be careful, though; the last time I went to Italy, the doctor gave me a slightly higher dosage. I took the pill the usual way, except I crossed the pond, landed in Milan and didn't even know it. I got on the bus from the airport to the train station and didn't even know it. We got to the train station in Milan, went in the office, and in italian bought a ticket for our trip from Venice to Assisi Express and then to Rome and didn't remember doing it. I still will take a pill, because if we crash I sure don't want to know it, but next time I'll take a lighter dosage of Ambien.

I fly often, and I don't especially care for take-off or landing, but I rather die in a plane crash than wasting away in a bed.

The odds are so small that it will actually happen, though, that I don't worry about it much, truth be told.
I don't mean this flippant at all, I love to travel, and that's how I deal with the least fun part of it ;-))

I don't worry about dying in a car crash, every time I get into a car either, even though the possibility is much higher.