Chip and Pin Credit Card question

While community advice is well and good, in this case, I think you would be better off calling your credit card provider and getting an answer directly from them.

I traveled extensively in Italy, Germany, and 6 Balkan countries last year. I'm sure I used my chip-and-PIN mileage card close to 100 times. None of the charges showed up as cash advances. You should certainly check with your credit card issuer to set your mind at ease, but I think the real risk is of signing a charge slip denominated in dollars rather than pounds (England) or Euros (France). That will definitely cost you money in the form of a poor exchange rate.

I did have a problem using the card a fair percentage of the time--though never in Italy. There was obviously some sort of disconnect between my particular card issuer and the verification system used by some hotels, restaurants and shops. I imagine the wrinkles have been worked out by now, but it was a bit frustrating at the time because of all the miles I missed out on. Fortunately, I had taken two credit cards with me. The second was the old-fashioned kind and worked when I needed for it to.

A credit card and a PIN number at an ATM will be treated as a cash advance. But the credit card using a pin at a merchant is no different than any other credit card.

Most US banks that have recently started to issue chip cards appear to be issuing chip and signature cards w/o sending you a PIN. Apparently in some cases the issuer will give you a PIN if you ask, but if you use the PIN it will be treated like a cash advance. But I don't know if it can even be used with a PIN anywhere but at an ATM, because as soon as the vendor runs it, it shows that a signature is required.
On the other hand, a number of banks or credit unions will send you a PIN with your card, especially those who started issuing chip cards prior to the last year or so (such as Andrews FCU, State Dept. FCU, and United Nations FCU). When the PIN is used, the charge will be treated like any other charge. However, in most cases, where the card is used with a person present, the default authorization is "signature," and the PIN isn't used. That's what happens to me when I use my Andrews card; I only have to use the PIN at unattended gas and train station machines. The materials you get from your bank should explain what type you have; if not, check their web site or call. As to your last question, it's never been a problem for me. I think the screen in front of the vendor, or the little hand held machine, will say Signature Required and will spit out a receipt to sign.

Canadian experience: True chip-and-pin credit cards work at ATMs exactly the same as the old swipe cards. The cash withdrawn is a loan from the bank, at extortionate interest . My credit cards have been chip-and-PIN for years, and I would only use them at an ATM in a dire emergency. I do use them constantly for many kinds of purchases and only have to sign if the retailer's banking connection is far out-of-date. They all have the ancient magnetic strip too.
My ATM/Debit cards don't have a chip but do require a PIN, spitting out the cash advance as soon as I enter the number. US banks and other financial institutions are dithering around with chip-and-signature credit cards and other half-way-modern devices, falling further behind international retail commerce every year.

....but if you use the PIN it will be treated like a cash advance.......

That may be your experience but it is not mine. My use of a PIN generates a regular charge.

A PIN will only incur a cash advance if you use your card at an ATM machine to withdraw cash.

If you have a US issued chip card, it almost for sure is a signature based purchase validation. But some banks do issue a PIN as a secondary validation where a signature cannot be obtained, such as automated machines. In those cases, typically you would enter your PIN and the transaction is approved. Otherwise, your card will always require a receipt or electronic signature. Most tourist-based merchants will be familiar with that system and can accommodate you (sometimes saying "No PIN" helps). Occasionally cards without PINs are not accepted at all (such as Dutch railway ticket offices).

If your bank issued you a PIN for cash advances (and not to validate purchases), then the PIN probably won't work if you try and use it in an automated machine. But sometimes the machines are set to accept US cards without having to enter a PIN (or entering any 4 digit number will validate it). You can always try it and if it doesn't work, use cash or go to a staffed window.

Confused? You are not alone. It is not easy to understand because there are so many variables (on this side of the Atlantic and that side).

Thanks for all of the replies. According to Jeffery at Capital One, which card I am planning on using due to the zero foreign transaction fees, Jeffery said "Your card is authorized with a signature, not a PIN. Cash advance is driven by the transaction type entered by the cashier. Entering a PIN for a purchase transaction if prompted will not make this a cash advance. If the places you shop have chip-enabled terminals, you will be prompted to insert your card into the terminal. If they don’t have chip-enabled terminals, you can still swipe your card the same as always. For transactions over the phone or online, nothing changes."
So it seems at least in my case using a PIN will not be a cash advance unless it is at an ATM.
Good to know

Thanks

Melinhead, I'm curious if you got a PIN with your Cap One chip card. I use Capital One in the US, and I recently received a notice saying that I'd be getting a replacement chip card soon. In France I usually use my Andrews FCU card, since it has a chip, and a PIN that I've used at unmanned gas and train stations. And, like Cap One, there's no foreign transaction fee. I wouldn't mind having a backup chip card. I don't count my BOA cards, because of their foreign transaction fee.

We are U.S. and received our Capital One replacement Mastercards with CHIP last year, they did not issue a PIN. Cap one has still not issued CHIP ATM cards for our moneymarket account with them, although they do so in Canada.

Capital One does not issue a purchase validation PIN. You can get a cash advance PIN (which I have not done personally).

Larry,

"Cap one has still not issued CHIP ATM cards for our moneymarket account with them, although they do so in Canada."

That's probably because Canada only uses Chip / EMV cards now. I haven't seen ANY financial institution here issue any other type of card for the last few years.

Cap one has still not issued CHIP ATM cards for our moneymarket account with them

I just got a replacement debit card from my credit union, and it also lacks a chip. I guess this is something only credit cards have in the U.S. for now?

A credit card PURCHASE where you have to enter a PIN in Europe is NEVER treated as a cash advance. Using the credit card at an ATM to get CASH is always treated as a cash advance. Ask your credit card issuer for a PIN so you have one to use at unattended kiosks for purchases in Europe. They will tell you it is for cash advances. It works fine for purchases, at least in my experience. What happens behind the scenes (is the PIN actually processed, does the card issuer simply ignore it, whatever) doesn't matter.

Debit cards with chips are coming. Depending on who you have your account with, it might not be until 2017. All of my debit cards (three) have been reissued over the past couple months with chips. I was told by one bank it is because they saw my frequent use of my card in Europe and put their customers with similar useage first on the reissue list.

The conversion of ATM/debit cards to chip enabled is supposed to happen by October 1, 2016. However, given that so many credit cards and merchants have missed the Oct 1, 2015 credit card deadline (going on 6 months now), I wouldn't expect your ATM/debit card to have a chip for at least another year.

For example, I still don't have a chip card for one of my credit cards. Most of the merchants I use, including really big grocery stores, are not processing chip cards yet.

I go to Europe even summer for 13 of the last 14 years and have solved the plastic card dilemma. I use a debit card to get local currency from an ATM machine in whatever country I am in and pay cash for 99.9% of my transactions. That debit card is tied to a checking account at a local credit union. I seldom use a credit card in Europe except to pay for hotels when I could not get into a B&B and I once purchased a rug in Turkey.