Celebrating My Son's 18th Birthday In Europe

Already being on this trip is celebration enough, but for his big day, why don't you let him choose everything you'll be doing that day once you get there, including where to eat his birthday dinner. As for a glass of wine with dinner, why not. It's much better for him to learn to drink responsibly at the table, with meals, with his family. (That's what we did but I still found a near empty bottle of cheap vodka under the bed when the oldest went off to college. He did grow into a responsible adult though.)

It's legal for 18 year olds to buy alcohol everywhere in Europe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like it's common in some countries for younger teens to drink beer and wine at restaurants with their parents. The legality of this varies by country, though.

Does he already drink? If so, he will be of age in Europe. If not, why encourage it?

Politics aside, I don't see that Dave is trying to push his son to a life of ruin. And I certainly don't think a drink with dinner is the same as paying for crack or prostitution. Jeez!

The point is that Dave shouldn't be concerned with what the group thinks. If he wants to share a drink, a bong, a prostitute, or anything else, he should feel free to do so without tabulating poll results from a bunch of strangers. It's a personal choice. If he wants to listen to Slipknot or Stone Sour during dinner instead of Vivaldi, he shouldn't worry about first querying this crowd for their consensus. It's a personal choice. If he wants to play Battlefield 3 with his son right after dinner, Helpline advice isn't necessary. It's a personal choice. BTW, with the exception of the prostitute, I've just outlined a pretty decent birthday for an 18 year-old.

Hi All. Thanks for all the input regardingcelebrating my son's 18th birthday in Europe. I was trying to get a consensus about how those in EUROPE deal with alcohol at that age, not folks on this board! Sorry for the confusion, everyone. And thanks again for the input.

Pop open a bottle of bubbly for his birthday! Letting him choose the events for the celebration is a great idea. I love Italy, but I'd take Paris over Salerno.

"Also, what's the general consensus regarding alcohol for that age?" Why would you care what the group thinks? Does he drink now? Are you okay with it? Is he okay with it? If he doesn't drink now, what's the point of making sure he gets some alcohol on his birthday? Is it because he's finally a man now at 18? If he doesn't drink now but will be drinking on his birthday, is he going to continue drinking when he gets back? If not, what's the point? Maybe your question has more to do with legal drinking age. This really is a personal matter IMHO...you could just as easily be asking what the group thinks about hitting the bong with him or hooking him up with a prostitute...it's kind of a private deal. I guess everyone will have an opinion, though.

...sounds like someone from Iowa needs a shot;)

A shot, a hit, a prostitute...it really doesn't matter...having a hard time getting in a rhythm today. I'll blame it on the hurricane. Oh, god...another anti-American rant from Pat. I really don't care what anyone else does or thinks about what I do. If you want to smoke crack together, go for it. It's a personal choice, not a group consensus thing. And Pat, you apparently don't know much about Canadian university students if you're somehow suggesting they don't party and get sloshed like U.S. students do.

Yes, Micheal,, Canadian kids drink too( duh) but they have a head start so aren't morons at 21 and my point is one is in EUROPE where they have a more civlized family emphasize on drinking. Your law was changed from 19 to 21 and it was supposed to improve things, but stats show its just delayed things.. your countries number of DUI s and other alcohol related crimes etc is absolutely no different then other countries. So get over your old fashioned crap and join the new age of wild crack smoking Canadains as we ply our infants with booze and herion. Uptight American,, and yes, I mean you Michael,, if your Irish, then you're an uptight Irishman, if your Spanish then you're an uptight Spanaird.. whatever shoe fits. PS Hope Obama wins.. edited to remove a "lol" cause I am not joking. This post was by an American so of course American laws and values are being discussed,,, you never see a post like this ( regarding an 18 yr old) from any other country do you?
And wondering, we have a few Americans that post here that are living and working overseas, do they make their kids wait till they are 21 yrs old, or do they or have they changed their attitudes re drinking before 21?

On that note, per the Wikipedia "Legal Drinking Age - Europe" list, it appears that in both Italy and France it's illegal to "sell" alcohol to minors (under 18) but not to serve alcohol to them, as long as said serving doesn't result in intoxication. This jives with my expectation that kids in the Mediterranean countries can have a glass of wine or beer with their parents in a restaurant without anyone raising an eyebrow. EDIT: I see that the legal age to buy in Italy is actually 16, except in the northern province of South Tyrol/Alto Adige.

What do the Europeans do? Well, in France the working class used to dip a cloth-wrapped sugar morsel in wine, cider, calvados, whatever the local liquor was, and give it to the baby to get him/her to sleep. Did wonders for the teeth and later-in-life alcoholism rate. Times have changed, but the attitude is still pretty open about kids having sips at the table at any age. If daddy is opening a good bottle for a special occasion, everyone would be included, even if only a sip.

I don't know for sure but dad rubbing an alcohol soaked sugar cube on his 18 y/old sons teeth is going to look quite awkward in a restaurant setting.

Will Europeans give a hoot what you do? No. Can an 18-year old in a controlled environment handle a drink? Yes, probably. Should either of those questions ultimately matter? No. Because in a sane world, drinking alcohol would be no more an expected inauguration into adulthood than sky-diving or hiring a prostitute. The fact that it often IS something of a right of passage is testament to mankind's deep-seeded desire for drug use (aka reality avoidance) and the many ways we find to weave it into common, socially acceptable practice. Just my opinion, though. (Just to play devil's advocate for a moment; Suppose in an alternate universe, there were no drugs, but people of both sexes freely used prostitutes. Better or worse overall, do you think?)

I know this may seem like a wild idea Randy, but some people like the taste of some alcoholic drinks and manage not to get drunk and avoid reality,, very possible if one has one drink with dinner.

The belief that European parents allowing their children to consume alcohol and the laws that allow them to buy it at a younger age than American teens leads to more responsible drinking, well you be the judge. http://www.higheredcenter.org/services/assistance/faq/are-there-fewer-alcohol-related-problems-countries-where-youth-are-allowed-d Just because something is allowed doesn't mean it's good. And I won't even go into the smoking problem.

Pat; What you say about taste is absolutely true. Many, many people have developed varying ways to enjoy the taste of various alcoholic incarnations. The search for new and even more creative ways to inject alcohol into otherwise innocuous drinks and food items is relentless. People get very excited about the prospects of new flavors to try, and all the while honestly believe it's just some sort of cosmic coincidence that all these "adult" beverages that taste so sublime happen to have alcohol as a key ingredient. I'll grant you all of that. But grant me this; If I could go back in time a couple of thousand years and wave a magic wand that ever-so-slightly changed the chemical make-up of alcohol so that it had no effect at all on the human body, but kept every other aspect - particularly it's taste - the same, and then went back forward in time to see the results, here is what we would see; Virtually no alcoholic drinks would be consumed. Because along the way, there would never have been any motivation to "develop" a taste for a drink that had nothing more than taste to offer. Sadly, however, in this alternate universe, something else would almost certainly have replaced it. Maybe at weddings everyone would take a bong hit after the obligatory toast. Who knows. But this takes the thread question way off track. I think the question has been answered well enough. I'm sure Dave is a good dad and however Jr's birthday plays out, it could well be a great and memorable trip.

randy, I grant you that the affect of alcohol in a drink does attract some, but when you use the historical slant you forget something. Alcoholic drinks "kept " better without refrigeration, and rotting fruit wasn't wasted( think cider type drinks the poor had". Barry, that article misses a point, of course there is more drinking noted in Europeon youth, since they are likely counting "youths" as those under 21, and we have already established that drinking by "youths" is legal in many places in Europe. We are not talking about children, and that article does not state what ages they are reporting on.. its a bit misleading. The point about DUIs is valid though, driving age in many places is 18, not 16 like I think most of North American.I will also note that here ( BC) a parent has to sign a permission slip if a child is under 18 for them to take their drivers licence.. and I think that is a good thing, the bad thing is most parents automatically sign it thinking driving is a "right of passage" for 16 yr olds. We did not sign for our oldest sons till he was 18, he was too immature and would have killed someone. We did however sign at 16 for our youngest daughter. Our middle son is 20 now and has never even applied, he bikes and buses by choice. Economic choice. lol

I certainly don't think Europeans are more civilized or evolved than Americans (the point about racism is a good one - I have heard stuff out of the mouths of Europeans here that I would never hear in the U.S.!) but in general the way most European countries approach alcohol is very different from the somewhat schizophrenic US approach. Anyway, Dave, to answer your question: In most families it would be considered quite normal in France for an 18 year old to have a drink or two with dinner with his family. Most likely the kids have been drinking wine with dinner sometimes since a few years prior. Probably even more normal in Germany, where the law is kids as young as 14 can drink beer and wine at restaurants with their parents, and buy it on their own at 16 (but hard liquor is off limits til 18). Casual social drinking in general amongst adults is quite more common in France and Germany than it is in the U.S. in general. Alcohol is just more integrated into daily life here. Whether you think that's a good thing or a bad thing, well, that's not really relevant. I consider it one of the big positives about living in Europe, but I'm a lush.

Dave,
The decision to serve a beer or wine on the occasion of your son's 18th birthday is entirely between you and him...a private decision. In some countries in Europe I believe the age of majority is lower than 18. It's a given that Obama will easily win Calif; it's also a given he will be walloped in other regions or states, such as Texas with its second highest electoral votes after Calif.

Pat, Youth is defined as the age between childhood and adulthood/maturity. I found other reports that say the same thing, I picked this one because it is concise. My point is just because it's legal doesn't mean it's a good thing or the youth are more responsible. Some of the posts on this thread were implying that youths drinking in the presence of their parents leads to more responsible drinking which isn't the case as this report points out, I'm not going to argue the that one drink with mom and dad is a problem, in a perfect world that would be fine, but as Randy pointed out it's the mind altering effect of alcohol that draws people to it, and it would be a safe bet that consumption would be lower if not nonexistant if the mind altering aspect wasn't there since it has no nutritional value. But the overall acceptance and legality of alcohol use by European youths can lead to problems, European youth are more apt than American youth to "binge drink" which is having 5 or more drinks in a row, and in later life there is a higher levels of alcohol and cirrhosis death rates in France and Italy, two countries with a lower legal drinking age. And I'm not saying we don't have a problem with it here in the U.S. but as the report points out it is a bigger problem in Europe which contradicts the idea that lower drinking ages leads to more responsible alcohol use. As Randy said, this thread is getting way off topic, but as often seen on this board there is a thought that Europeans are more enlightened than Americans, on this subject I disagree.

"Casual social drinking in general amongst adults is quite more common in France and Germany than it is in the U.S. in general." Classic example- which stand at a Weihnachtsmarkt has the biggest crowd standing around it? It's not the decorative woodwork or artesinal honey... it's the Glühwein. Bottom line, Dave. It will be legal for your son to drink. Whether or not he does is up to the two of you.

Actually, there seems to be a widely-accepted notion (on this board anyway) that Europeans are somehow more compassionate, cultured, enlightened, and sophisticated about pretty much everything in existence compared to their American counterparts. Europe's a big place, however, and there's plenty of bad history and current ignorance to go around. Boo and yell racist slurs at your own team's black soccer stars, criminalize religious dress, outlaw religious buildings, or even wear a Confederate flag shirt on a Rick Steve's episode on Rome...why not? While Iowa admitted the first female attorney to any State Bar in the U.S. in 1869, Switzerland decided women would remain second class citizens and couldn't even vote for another 100 years. And while free speech is protected in the U.S., places like Britain and France continue to enact severe civil and criminal penalties for those who dare to express an unpopular opinion publicly. Yeah, that's enlightenment alright. We have our issues to be sure, but so does Europe and just about any other place on Earth.

Here's an idea I think he'd remember. Touristy but cool. If in France, you could spring for a glass of champagne from the little bar at the top of the Eiffel Tower. (or one of the two restaurants on the Tower, although "Jules Verne" is pretty pricey) Ross

What kills me about the gluhwein stands (ahh almost this time of year!) is how often they ask you "mit shuss?" (spelling may be wrong) but basically "with a shot?" Why yes, I would like some alcohol to go in my alcohol, thanks! You won't see me arguing that binge drinking isn't a problem at all in Europe, because it totally is, but you gotta appreciate the high tolerance of these people, and the fun times. In moderation, of course. ;)

It is hard to muster up the energy to be warlike when one is stoned.. perhaps more pot smoking would benefit everyone.. We could go to wars about shipments of potato chips and chocolate bars instead of oil.. lol Of course that would mean getting off the couch,, oh, never mind then, lol

Boy, did this subject open up some old wounds! Iowa Michael, you make it sound like bongs and hookers are bad things;) Easy there big fella. Have a glass of wine. Sheesh. Yes, Dave, IMHO, have a glass of wine with your son. Toast his 18th birthday.
I still remember going to the horse race track with my dad and grandfather when I turned 18, and placing my first bet at the window. The first of thousands. And Pat. The best weed (called Romulan), comes out of British Columbia by the truck load into the U.S. Canadians are not holier than thou, just different. (And not as war-like.) And Sarah, your answer to "Mit schuss?" should be "Ja bitte!" but only after asking how much?