Car vs Train - Winter Time 2022 - Austria, Liechtenstein, and Switzerland

You can fiddle around with Rome2Rio.com to see what sort of public transportation exists between St. Anton and your other destinations. Just don't trust the travel times, frequencies or fares it displays. You need to keep drilling down on that website to find the name of the transportation company providing the service and get accurate details from its website. Rome2Rio usually provides links. Of course, what you see now may not be an accurate reflection of the situation next winter.

It seems a shame to fly in and out of Zurich but do your day-trip to Rheinfall and Winterthur after you are settled so far away in St. Anton. Those places are very close to Zurich. I'm guessing you won't need a car in Winterthur, either. Would it not be possible for you to spend Night 2 or your last St Anton night by yourself in or near Zurich and tackle Winterthur/Rheinfall then? I'd suggest that whether or not you have a rental car.

I'm not clear on your group's plans for the last night. I wouldn't want to stay in St. Anton the night before an international flight out of Zurich. If something goes wrong with your transportation, you'd be facing purchase of a lot of costly last-minute one-way tickets home.

If you take an Austrian rental car into Switzerland, be aware that you will need a Swiss vignette if you use the highways. I think it costs CHF 40. The same would be true if you took a Swiss car into Austria, but the Austrians have a short-term vignette that's a lot cheaper.

Welcome to the Forums, John L, glad to see you...

Thanks for being clear on what you are looking for, and for laying it out in an easy to read way.

That said, I'm still a little confused.

Are you planning to do each of your "one day"s by getting up early before dawn, travelling to your destination, seeing what you want at that place and then travelling back to St Anton before dark, dinner and drinks with the gang, bed, rinse repeat?

I've been going to many of those (only never spent any time to speak of in central Zurich) places since 1972 (you said don't talk about old but just painting the picture that this isn't my first rodeo) and last year was the first in many years that I didn't make it Switzerland or Austria, due only to the virus. I've been locked down since last February because my wife is so vulnerable.

2019 was near Zurich, visited Rhinefall, and was in Salzburg.
2018 drove through Liechtenstein (not to visit but it was in the line of my route and I didn't want to go around - I was there a couple of years earlier and saw no reason to get off the main road again), also near Zurich (I visit friends in Zug and stay in a Zurich suburb), and in Seefeld in Tirol near Innsbruck (a regular haunt of mine), and all sorts around.
and back about 4 or 5 years for my one and only visit to Winterthur
and it probably is maybe 10 - my goodness time passes so quickly - since I wandered around Innsbruck.

So, please say what things you hope to do in Winterthur (full disclosure - 4 nights there, couldn't wait to move on, my experience is that Winterthur is a waste of space, so if there are particular things you are after I can address them...) and how you want to visit Rhinefalls. You can do the Swiss side, the German side, ride by on a train, ride a boat (but maybe not in January - it will be really cold).

What are you looking to see in Liechtenstein or is it a check the box place for you?

Do you know the difference in time between the RailJet and car going to Zurich? Do you know how close Winterthur/Zurich/Rhinefalls are, and how expensive the St Anton tunnel is?

You mentioned the Austrian Vignette. An Austrian car will come with one. But that's the cheap one. The Swiss one is CHF 40.

Gotta go into a meeting - more later

Please don't talk down to me - I've seen in other threads on somewhat
similar topics people bashing the stupid Americans that seem to want
to always rent a car.

I've written a couple of those comments. But it is not about bashing stupid Americans, it is about pointing out that there is public transport and that European cities don't look like American cities. Many Americans know that, but many don't. I've seen several examples of that, like the American tourist who thought Heathrow express was a bit expensive and planned to rent a car to drive to central London instead and also use it during her stay to get around the city.

That being said, for your trip a car can certainly make sense. But you can rent cars in St Anton, at least a quick google search gave a few results. So it seems like you could rent a car for a day or two and use public transport other days.

But doing Rheinfall and Winterthur one day and Zürich another day seems like a lot of travel. Will your friends be very sad if you spend one night on your own? If not I would combine those two day trips and spend the night in Zürich instead, that will save you a couple of hours travel time.

@acraven
Yeah - I know I have to really dive in and see exact costs and will need to look at travel times and the like (including what's open and what's not open and times etc. for certain places) closer to the trip. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the cost of the trip with the company we're using includes the bus from Zurich to St Anton. For everyone else it's a ski trip. They may take a day off here or there (not as a group) but they'll be primarily skiing. So between the flight, bus, and hotel, it doesn't make sense to pay for another hotel night in another city - so I'm looking to do things I can do in 2 hours back and forth. And they've done this trip before and the company, like many others, runs trips into/out of St Anton all the time - so no one is worried about the trip back to Zurich for the flight home. It's a chartered bus and the company knows exactly what to do and the timing is set so that we have plenty of time to kill in the Zurich airport before our return. And that was one of my questions - I know Austria requires the sticker for highways, wasn't sure about Switzerland or Liechtenstein.

@Nigel,
Yes - that's the plan - do something in the morning and afternoon and then head back to St Anton for the evening. Not necessarily every night, but dinner at the hotel is included for 5 nights....so I can have two nights when I don't eat with people and just catch up with them late in the evening. And no worries - there's a difference between I've been going since 19xxx versus I haven't been there since 19xx lol. Sorry to hear about your wife - hopefully you have both stayed safe in the pandemic. For Winterhur really was just going to spend 1/2 day after going to see the Rheinfall walking around the town and shopping and eating. Regarding Liechtenstein - I don't try and "check the box" - that's not how I travel. The only thing of interest to me besides exploring would be the 4 castles/ruins (you can't go into the actual castle used by the royal family as you may know) - and 1 is at the north end of the small country and 1 is at the south end. Again I'll need to do more digging around to see if there are easy transportation options to both of those spots and when/how often they run (especially in winter). I know Railjet vs car - but not sure what you mean by that question. I didn't get into researching costs for tolls/parking. So I just looked at it online and the St Anton toll (if I read it correctly) is 11 Euros. The bridges/tunnels in NYC are $15 a pop so I'm use to that. And thanks for the heads up about the Swiss Vignette. I will build out an excel sheet and look at costs lol.

@Badger
Oh yeah - I totally wasn't expecting to get bashed or maybe by one or two people lol, but I wanted to make it clear while I'm not an expert on these places, I have traveled so I'm very aware of the beautiful nature of European transporation systems, especially the trains. Thanks - i only did a quick look on Priceline for St Anton - but I didn't really think that yeah, it's a resort town so they probably do have a rental car place somewhere. And I'm okay with the travel times. But I will continue to explore ideas and coalesce a plan in the coming months. To be honest...I'm not a winter traveler usually but I figured since they did this in January of 2019 and everyone that went raved about it...why not do it once. I'm usually AGAINST group travel (of course for something like skiing I get it) but I can do my own thing and if 1 or 2 nights, especially as there's 2 nights I don't get dinner at the hotel, I miss dinner with the group and come in late and only have a drink or two...that's fine.

So far reading these replies....and I TOTALLY appreciate them btw! I'll be spending a lot more time in the next month talking with friends I know that have been to this part of the world and looking at options. I'd like to do something outdoorsy one day...but I love exploring cities and I know I could take 2 days in Zurich for sure

And I know I could spend a day in Innsbruck. Question would be then - or a ask for recommendations. What's one other city big enough in two to two and half hours of driving or train that I could spend the day exploring and is good in the winter time. I thought about Munich but that's like 3 hours by train. But maybe I could do that one of those days I miss dinner with the group.

And part of this will also be dependent on the group's plans which will keep changing till November/December lol. If they all plan to do a day off (or a lot of them) and we decide to do x....than that becomes a part of the plan.

And since I might be able to rent a car in St Anton...maybe I only do that for a day - drive out to the Rheinfall and other places in Switzerland and then drive back. But we'll keep exploring options.

Thanks for the replies again!

Thanks - i only did a quick look on Priceline for St Anton - but I
didn't really think that yeah, it's a resort town so they probably do
have a rental car place somewhere.

Take that with a grain of salt though, I only did a quick google search and you might need to look a bit closer at the options.

And I know I could spend a day in Innsbruck. Question would be then -
or a ask for recommendations. What's one other city big enough in two
to two and half hours of driving or train that I could spend the day
exploring and is good in the winter time.

Within 2:30 your options are basically Zürich and Innsbruck. If you are willing to stretch it a bit there is also Munich and Salzburg. Or you can look at smaller towns.

Thing is...I don't ski

This might be a good time to learn - seriously. I'm sure they have ski rentals and a ski school in St. Anton.

The only problem I see is that you might like it and want to continue after you get home to Pennsylvania, but, sorry, skiing in Pennsylvania sucks, big time (I skied there for 14 years, I know).

But the places you want to visit from St. Anton are an average of 3 hours round trip, each day. Not so bad in the morning, but then, after a full day of sightseeing, you'll have to drive back 1-2 hours, most likely in the dark. And most of the places on your list, I really wouldn't bother to go to, even if they were a shorter drive to get there.

I've been planning a trip, for when, or if, we ever get to travel in Europe again, starting in Zürich, then going to Lindau. After Lindau, we would go through the Tirol, through St. Anton, to Innsbruck and on to Germany. So the night before taking the train through the Tirol, I thought we would stay in Feldkirch, which is the boarding point for some of the RailJets through the Tirol. Then I notice that Feldkirch is just a few km from the border with Liechtenstein, so I thought, as long as I am going to spend a night in Feldkirch, I'd make a side trip to see Liechtenstein (Liechtenstein, check!).

So I made the following post on the website, asking what there was to do or see in Liechtenstein. To my disappointment, almost everyone answered, "Nothing".

I still haven't given up. It's so tempting to be that close and not say that I've been in Liechtenstein, but quite frankly, I can't find anything worthwhile to warrant going there. I've literally spent hours on Google Maps, looking in every little town on the road between Feldkirche and Vaduz, and I haven't found anything that makes me want to go there.

And Innsbruck, well I was there for a day, and I quickly decided there wasn't much there I wanted to see, so I took the train up Brenner Pass and went down into Italy (Italy, check).

Rheinfall is one of the more interesting place you want to see, but would be, probably a 5 hour round trip, so you would spend as much time getting there as you would actually spend being there.

Zürich would be interesting, but you are going through there anyway. Maybe leave St. Anton a day early and spend it in Zürich before meeting your friends to fly home.

Naw, try skiing.

I tried learning how to ski 5 winters ago when I was dating someone who was an avid snowboarder (and surfer). Thing is I didn't grow up doing sports, especially ones that require balance such as skiing, ice skating, rollerblading, etc. I did give it my best. But we went four times - every other Saturday for two months when she had her two kids for the weekend and we spent a whole day on the slope. Each time I paid for lessons for me (and the two kids) and I spent the day on the bunny hill and I could not master it. At my age (39) I would nee to go for like 7-10 days straight everyday to build the muscle memory. I may tri next winter locally her in the Mid-Atlantic, but I will not attempt it out there. Plus the reason for me to go on this trip since I don't ski currently is to enjoy the trip.

And I heard just yesterday evening from a friend who may come out with another friend towards the end of this trip on their own...that several other friends had less than stellar things to say about Liechtenstein. Again...I would only go their to see the Medieval castles...and certainly not to "check the box"....so as of today I'm leaning towards doing two day trips to Zurich, one day trip to Innsbruck (all of which I can easily do by train) and then maybe rent a car just for a day and drive and see Rheinfall and Liechtenstein in the same day. Would be a lot of driving, but that's okay with me. I'll keep working on building out a more detailed itinerary and looking at possibilities in the weeks to come.

Thanks for the replies!

John L, just to be sure you know the added costs for your driving -

You need an IDP - that goes with your regular driving licence, is valid one year and runs around $US 15.00 from the AAA, plus need to provide two passport photos.

Each trip through the Arlberg Road Tunnel (about 9 and a half miles including the galleries (like a snow shed)) will cost you 11€. This is in addition to the Austrian Vignette that an Austrian rental should have either on the window or electronically (probably electronically for a rental). If for some reason you don't get a car from Austria (perhaps a Swiss one if you decide to get it there) the 10 day Austrian Vignette was 9.40 € pre-pandemic.

The Swiss Vignette is needed for driving on any Swiss (or Liechtenstein) highway marked with a green sign and icon of a car - that's most of the ones you will be driving on. It costs CHF 40 and can be obtained before or at the border, although if you count on getting it at the border and the border is unstaffed you still need it (patrolled both by humans and cameras) before you drive one foot on a covered road. If you buy it in Austria you can pay an equivalent amount in Euro. The CHF40 price is the same for one day or a calendar year with the adjacent December before the year and the January after - there is no short version. The Vignette needs to be peeled off the backing correctly and stuck to the windscreen in the correct place or there is a high fine.

Switzerland uses CHF, the Swiss Franc. Some places may take Euro but not coins, and change (at whatever rate of exchange, set by the vendor) will be in CHF. You can pay for some things with a card - always turn down DCC (euphemistically called Dynamic Currency Conversion where they appear to charge you in dollars, at whatever (bad) exchange rate they choose), in Switzerland, Austria and Germany.

Be very careful about speed and driving laws - they are enforced by camera in Austria, Switzerland and Germany, and there is little or no leeway. Simply don't drink at all if you will drive - the allowable amount of alcohol for a driver in each of those countries - practically zero. Penalties are very high.

Parking is almost never free in Switzerland and rare in Austria. Study up on how to use the different Swiss parking machines and how to display the ticket. You usually need to go to a central machine on arrival, you will need to know the number plate of your car and the space number that you are parked in, and you will need Swiss coins.

Days are short. On 15th of January in St Anton sunrise will be at 8am and sunset 4 minutes before 5pm, although low clouds may make the day feel shorter.

I asked up thread about what you hoped to do at the Rheinfall but I didn't see a reply.

The reason I asked is it isn't exactly where you might expect it - it isn't in the centre of Schaffhausen. You can get very close to the Swiss side by train (not Schaffhausen Bf) and not too far from the German side at another station, and the carpark (quite expensive as I remember) is quite close to the Swiss side. I don't know if the boats operate in mid-winter, but you know what Niagara is like in mid-winter? It won't be a million miles different, although maybe a bit warmer, and I wouldn't expect the Maid of the Mist to operate in January.

I stayed in the youth hostel in Schaffhausen, and a very nice youth hostel it was too. I've never been to the Rheinfall in mid-winter.

So depending on what your plans are it may well be better by car or by train.

Although, in 32 years, I've probably skied over 450 times at 35 areas in 10 states, I've never skied in Europe. I had a chance once on a business trip, when the rest of the group I was with went to Garmisch-Partenkirchen; I, instead, elected to visit relatives in the Black Forest. I reasoned that I have the best snow in the world in Colorado, and skiing is skiing, I could come home and ski, but I can't always visit my relatives.

Anyway, I don't know how good the snow is in St. Anton, but it has to be better than in Pennsylvania. If you're going to try skiing again, try it in Austria, not Pennsylvania; you'll probably find it easier to learn on good snow. I skied for 15 years in Western Pennsylvania, and every Friday night of ski season, I was down in the garage, putting a razor sharp edge on my skis to try to hold on the packed-to-ice snow.

But if you don't try skiing, I would suggest this as a day trip. Take the train back towards Zürich, to either St Galen or St Margrethen, then another to Rorschach, on Bodensee. Take a boat from Rorschach across the lake to Lindau, Germany. Lindau is an island city that was walled in middle ages. It has a delightful harbor looking out across the lake to Austria and Switzerland. After Lindau, take the train around the end of the lake to Bregenz, Austria. There take the Pfänderbahn, a cable car that goes up to the top of the Pfänder, about 700' above Bodensee with a view down the lake almost to Konstanz. From there, go back to the Zürich-Innsbruck line at Feldkirch.

If you are at all technical, it would be nice to throw in Friedrichshafen and the Zeppelin Museum, but that's probably too much for one day.

If you plan on driving in the Alps in Winter, you better have chains for your tires.

I lived in Germany and was on a ski trip where the bus got stuck in icey conditions at the bottom of the road up to the resort.

Due to our combined weight, all the people on the bus had to walk up the mountain in the dark with only moonlight to guide us.

The point? There's a reason why y'all are going by bus, but don't assume that the roads will always be clear for mountain driving by any kind of vehicle.

Do pay attention to the comments about weather, daylight and adequate preparation for winter emergencies. Shoot, in 2011, we got stuck at a hotel at the top of the Austrian Grossglockner Hochalpenstrasse in June (!!!) due to snow and ice.

In terms of the places or sites you want to drive to for visiting, be sure that they are actually open and find out what their hours are. Winter hours can be limited. How long it takes to get from one place to another could be complicated by winter weather. Personally, I wouldn't want to do any Alpine driving after dark.

I"m sure it's worse in January, but here's a link to the current forecast for St. Anton:
https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/St-Anton/6day/mid

I didn't check all the possible resources for St. Anton, but Wikipedia has a good transportation overview for it and the area.

If the weather is decent and the roads are open and clear, driving in the Alps can be great. As alluded to above we did that in June of 2011. We spent 2 weeks. Our trip was mostly about the driving. We weren't using the car to get to a place to visit and explore. Even on dry roads in Germany, Austria, Italy, Switzerland and France, the going is slow.

Lichtenstein is served by a side railway line, joining Buchs (CH) to Feldkirch (A), run by Austrian trains and joining the two systems, but having almost no local traffic and going through Schaan but not Vaduz. If you are on public transportation, you should inquire about post buses from one of these two towns. Both will be served by fast trains traveling between Zurich and Innsbruck. BTW, I went through these towns by car stopping only for a short time, and Feldkirch has always looked to me more attractive than anywhere in Lichtenstein.

Thanks everyone for the notes and advice. Apologies for not responding for a week or more, been busy and just lost a family member to COVID.

After considering options, looking at prices, and also taking into account a whole host of factors like weather, road conditions, etc. I'm definitely going to stick to trains for this trip. They're too convenient and low cost compared to driving, especially considering I'll be crossing borders and parking in city centers, etc.

Definitely plan on two days in Zurich and one day in Innsbruck - I love walking around cities eating, drinking, exploring. And I'll do 1 or 2 days in/around St. Anton doing winter sports besides skiing. Just need to figure out what to do the other day I'll have - maybe Liechtenstein or maybe do Munich on a day where I won't be meeting up with friends afterwards for dinner/drinks - but I'll keep exploring options. Even a small town would be cool - long as it's big enough to spend a day w/o getting bored!

Thanks again for the advice and suggestions!

Car free is a good choice. When on holiday why take on the job of chauffeur.

Two days in Zurich? Take note that Luzern is less than an hour's train ride central train station to train station.

If you stay in Zurich, consider buying the Zurich Card for transportation and free to discounted admissions: https://www.zuerich.com/en/zurichcard

The Zürich Card offers the following benefits over a period of 24 or
72 hours:

Unlimited 2nd class travel by tram, bus, train, boat and cableway in
the city of Zurich and surrounding region

Short boat trips and Limmat river cruise

Free or reduced admission to 43 museums

When we stayed in Luzern, our hotel gave us complimentary Luzen Visitor Cards that covered free local transportation and discounts: https://www.luzern.com/en/services/visitor-card-lucerne/

The Visitor Card gives visitors staying in an accommodation in Lucerne
free travel on public transport in the city of Lucerne. It offers free
use of buses and trains (2nd class) within zone 10 (excluding boat
trips).

Have you considered one night in Switzerland? Morning train to Zurich and rent a car (in Zurich) for the day for Winterhur/Rheinfall; return the car and sleep in Zurich....or keep the car overnight to stay outside of Zurich. Train back the next afternoon in time for dinner in St. Anton.

....train and easy public transport for Innsbruck and Liechtenstein...