Broad European river cruise question, maybe around bikes

Do you consider specific countries and / or rivers? in which you are most interested?

For day trips with ships like a river HoHo you can use KD ships on the Rhine with bringing own bikes, see their FAQ.

Providers such as Phoenix offer their rental bikes which are carried on the ships (German article).

We took a diy barge on the River Baise in France years ago, with the option to rent a bike & bring it aboard the barge. Then, if you’d like, one guy could drive the barge & the other would bike on the path along the river. I think this is common with most diy barges — and I highly recommend a barge as a lovely way to see the countryside.

Something out of left field which you might like to browse if you've never seen before -

https://www.hoseasons.co.uk/boat-holidays

Sailing your own boat and combining that with some cycling?

Hi, Hank.

In the past I have taken bike-barge trips with VBT, a US based company, in Burlington VT. They offer barge trips (in addition to non-barge biking trips) in various parts of Europe. I have taken both types of trips with VBT. Overall, I have been quite satisfied with their offerings. Nicely planned routes, good accommodations (on both barge trips and non-barge trips). In my opinion, VBT has always delivered what they promised, and did so at a reasonable price. They offer their European trips with or without airfare included. Your choice. Bikes are included, road bike, hybrid bikes, e-bikes. Again, your choice. I have already opted for the road bike and have been pleased with the bikes they have provided.

Yes, most all the participants are cyclists. But the group seldom rides together as a group. Individuals are on their own. Fast people go fast. Slow people go slow. And everything in between. I have found that people with similar interests and cycling abilities often form little groups within the larger group while actually cycling.

They provide a free link with Ride / GPS, in addition to paper route maps. Works very well.

I have also found with VBT, the guides usually can offer longer routes than the normal day’s prescribed route. Just talk to him/her. I have found the guides skilled and usually adept at judging the skills of the participant, meaning he/she will off advice as seems appropriate to the rider looking for something addition.

(No, I don’t work for VBT. LOL? Just traveled with them on about a dozen trips, in various parts of Europe.)

Feel free to ask additional questions either here on the forum or PM.

JimD

A friend did this with Merlijn. She enjoyed it and recommended them, but I can't speak from personal experience.

See this long post about a trip on the Merlijn-https://emmacruises.com/bike-and-barge-cruise-review/

and also this video, also from Emma- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPDUwRzpFXU&list=PLZINe6US8uzYcUQGyZQEiRjCD8W4g6wJf&index=7&t=9s

A friend did one years ago and enjoyed it. She was a very experienced cyclist, having dne a few cross state trips. As you are an experienced cyclist, you need to pay close attention to the daily distances. Youtuber EMMA CRUISES has done 2 such trips, but the ones she has done have short daily distances - shorter than Inwould do before breakfast.

As an alternative, consider staying in a town for a few days and doing day trips. That’s what I did instead f changing every day. It was much more enjoyable.

Uniworld river cruise ships carry bicycles, and most of their itineraries include one or more excursions that involve bicycling within the port city (e.g. Lyon) or in the nearby countryside. And I believe they make the bicycles available to passengers at most ports of call for independent bike riding. But don't expect a Pinarello, Litespeed or Cervelo; the bikes are multispeed but otherwise basic. And the Uniworld demographic is pretty geriatric.

I think other river cruise lines may similarly offer bicycles, but research on your own. Cruise Critic website is a great place to research. Good luck!

This company has more than just barges, they have larger river ships that include bicycle touring.
I've never traveled with them, but have seen their ships on the water.

https://en.radreisen.at/

so many good ideas thanks!

I love the idea of a self-drive barge if I could rope my in-laws into coming along. Somebody needs to drive!

Regular river cruises don't seem like they'd work. Most go to far from port to port to cycle, and they don't have many bikes and you can't bring your own. I need a cycling specific ship.

So many good options out there! I'm starting to think that choosing a route that is harder to do without the boat might be the way to go. Croatian coast maybe. I looked at a bunch of the Low Country tours but really don't need to boat in those countries because they are logistically really easy for regular bike touring.

I'm also starting to understand that price varies pretty widely. I think I'd like less from the boat - meals and a bed - because they trop would still be mostly about off the boat.

Anyway, it's fun to think about, thanks

I know that some river cruises provide some bikes for their passengers and most don't use them.
I think AMA Waterways does that. Perhaps Viking as well.

I researched doing barge tours and found them very limiting in scope and relatively expensive.

For me the problem with the bikes available on regular river cruises are that they are there for going out when you arrive at a port; afaik riding from port to port isn't allowed. I'd rather bike from place to place and just sleep and eat on the boat.

As for prices, I think they vary widely in all categories? You can pay $1000 or $6000 for a week of bike and barge, similar range for river cruises?

Regarding the destination based cycling suggestion above (stay in a place for a while and take bike rides) it is a good idea that I already take advantage of fairly regularly. I agree that it's easier than point to point and you still take in a lot. But there is something special about riding away from your starting point knowing you aren't returning .....

Google "best river cruises for cyclists." Lots of choices.

Thanks for suggesting that I Google it jpbucks!

I actually have done some research. But I find that I learn different kinds of things from asking broad questions to the experience travelers on this board.

For instance, the idea of hiring a self-driven barge. It's quite an interesting idea, and it doesn't push to the front of the Google search you suggest.

And all kinds of other stuff like that.

But thank you again, Google certainly is a valuable resource for travel planning.

Just finished an Emerald river cruise Passau to Budapest. They had 10 e-bikes on board for free use by passengers. We only had 2 days with planned biking. The point to point ride was rained out. The morning Vienna bike tour was a leisurely group ride through parks and islands. River cruises daytimes are spent in port so using their bikes would be an out and back ride. The boats cruise mostly at night. If you are a serious cyclist these would be an expensive trip with limited riding. I once did a lot of cycle touring in the US and I would be bored mostly riding along the river. Viking does not carry bikes per family on a cruise right now.

Raquet thanks so much very helpful. I hope you had a fantastic trip

Emma Cruises did a pretty deep dive into this, check this out and also her vlog on it. She wasn't sure she was a biker and discovered ... well I'll let her tell it

https://emmacruises.com/bike-and-barge-cruise-review/

I have a couple of friends who went down the Danube this way. On board nights, biking along the river by day. They had a great time.

Thanks for suggesting that I Google it jpbucks!

Well, I obviously didn't suggest something you hadn't already done. :o) I really wasn't being condescending, though I can see it might come off that way. Apologies to anyone to whom it did.

I guess my post was more to express my surprise at finding so many river cruises (with a variety of boat sizes and types) available. Cycling is something I used to do that I can't do readily on a cruise, for a variety of uninteresting reasons. But I'm a bit envious that you'll have so many options to choose from. Please keep us posted on your decisions.

Hank- "Regular river cruises don't seem like they'd work. Most go to far from port to port to cycle, and they don't have many bikes and you can't bring your own. I need a cycling specific ship."

That's why I linked Rad-reisen, you can bring your own bikes on board.

Well, I obviously didn't suggest something you hadn't already done.
:o) I really wasn't being condescending, though I can see it might
come off that way. Apologies to anyone to whom it did.

Thanks! I wasn't sure what your intent was, but glad to hear it wasn't "Google it dummy" :)

Actually though, dummy has been doing some Googling, and I found one European bike and barge tour company that stands from the rest.

Santana Adventures

Santana is custom tandem and touring bike builder. It appears that what's happened is the couple who own it decided to charter out an entire river cruise ship and sell rooms to their regular customers. It went well and now they do many each cycling season.

Santana has everything I want:

Many different levels of rides each day, from 70 miles and 5k vf (sounds great!), to 18 miles mostly downhill, and much in between.

All the usual nice river cruise stuff on board.

Rides are NOT guided. I liked some of the suggestions above, but some run on a "stay behind the leader and in front of the sweeper" system. I like that if I'm back country skiing, not so much cycling. Santana give you GPS tracks and a sights briefing, and you ride away on your own.

There is no "sag wagon." No annoying van constantly driving slowly behind your group. You pick a distance you can finish. Instead though they have two vans, each staffed by a real bike mechanic. If you break down they are there in minutes after you Whatapp a pin.

Every day you can meet the ship at a new port in at lunchtime. You can eat and then ride bikes again to the evening destination, or not, and hang on the ship as it sails in the afternoon. Or sail in the morning and ride the afternoon. Or grab lunch at a restaurant or market on your own. So flexible!

Bit of a repeat, but you can do bigger mileage and ride some real hills. It can be mostly river/canal paths, but many courses range away from the river/canal.

The routes are divine! The stops and rides are designed by cyclists for cyclists. I love the way for instance the Bordeaux to Amsterdam route hops the Channel for a few days of riding the south of England. So cool.

But a few things I'm not fired up about:

Costs upwards of $5,000 all in for a 7 nights, per person double occupancy. Not more than some regular river cruises, but definitely more than most. The cheapest self-guided bike barge options are not a lot more than $1000.

Tours sell out up to a year in advance, and after 15 days are completely non-refundable. Necessary as they buy out entire ships, but still a big spend a long time ahead.

It's very bikey. I watched a couple of videos, and was surprised at how much I felt a little cringe at much heavily branded lycra, helmet mirrors, clacking clipless pedal shoes. I ride at least 100 miles every week, but am not a big group ride type. I prefer to be in cycling clothing that easily doubles as street clothes, move a little more like a ghost, not a spectacle of stereotype. But I think I could (and should) let this go - I ride bikes and they ride bikes and it's really all about the same.

Anyway, maybe some day I'll try Santana out.

Thanks for the help above, still loving the idea about chartering a self-drive barge too :)

Good info Hank. Sounds like it may be a good fit for you.

if I can add a slightly personal aside which may amuse, I recommended Hoseasons further up. I ordered their brochure from their TV ad many years ago. You can imagine a slightly on the spectrum seven year old, poring over that brochure for hours comparing boats and dreaming of sailing the Norfolk Broads. Never happened though :)

Costs upwards of $5,000 all in for a 7 nights, per person double occupancy. Not more than some regular river cruises, but definitely more than most. The cheapest self-guided bike barge options are not a lot more than $1000.
Tours sell out up to a year in advance, and after 15 days are completely non-refundable. Necessary as they buy out entire ships, but still a big spend a long time ahead.
It's very bikey. I watched a couple of videos, and was surprised at how much I felt a little cringe at much heavily branded lycra, helmet mirrors, clacking clipless pedal shoes. I ride at least 100 miles every week, but am not a big group ride type. I prefer to be in cycling clothing that easily doubles as street clothes, move a little more like a ghost, not a spectacle of stereotype. But I think I could (and should) let this go - I ride bikes and they ride bikes and it's really all about the same.

I was hoping this topic would get us some good ideas. The Santana one, while nice as it it getting close to answer, remains to me a big "are you kidding about the price" sort of thing - especially if done with a non-participating spouse. I get folks are regularly paying $1k-$2k/day for bike tours with folks like Trek or Backroads, but again, it insults my frugal brain. I wish there was a better "in between" option for a canal/river cruise of the sort you found with Santana.

And, yeah, let the clique mentality go. It helps none of us when an already small subset of the whole is divided into even tinier bits and even played against each other. I used to hold my nose over the ebike folks, but as they have gotten better and also actually made other folks join the cycling fold - motor assisted or not - which as a whole opens up bike lanes, bike friendly stores/shopping, and even new infrastructure considerations (in America) that might help us nudge a tiny bit closer to some of the more bike (and pedestrian) friend European places.

I'm not much of an "organizer" but I do know folks in my larger circle of cycling folks who do organize some cool events. One guy I cross paths with will organize annual "training" events in Europe - usually Italy, but last year Mallorca - and seemingly works with the hotel(s) to work out group rates and the like. I think cruise lines do the same - ie work with large "interest" groups - and a river cruise might be able to work with a group ride coordinator on a "deal". We've done a cruise where every port, the cargo port opened and a large group of Harley Davidsons rolled off onto the pier, and the group set off for exploring (but returned to the ship each evening).

It can be done, and probably for a way better $$$/day than $1k+/person. Sadly, I'm not the one to figure it out (now), but maybe you've found a great new challenge :D (and a side hustle for free travel and fun in retirement).

Tom thanks for the reply!

I wish there was a better "in between" option for a canal/river cruise
of the sort you found with Santana.

That makes two of us. As tempting as it seems, nearly $2k a day for two people I think will be a non-starter for me even if I can completely afford it. I can't turn off the part of my brain that looks at opportunity costs. But for $400 a day my wife and I could do a very similar ride from hotel to hotel, stay in very nice places, eat in good restaurants, etc.

I like your vibe of maybe get creative and make something interesting happen. I retire at the end of this academic year, so could use a project I suppose :). It would be fun figure out some sort of group charter! Maybe start with a self-drive boat and four couples? Take turns driving, most days ride? Or try to see about chartering a very small riverboat. The options are certainly intriguing, at minimum fun to think about.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Merlijn was suggested no less than four times above, but appears to have been just dismissed nem com (without even looking at the option), on the basis of one other poster who hasn't even done a Merlijn voyage.

How does that work? Except it was not deemed to be not serious enough cycling.

Bear in mind that Emma is a frugal voyager, and pretty much a non cyclist. If it suited her surely it is at least worth a consideration.

Or is that the voyaging clique?- that if it isn't a non American standard luxury cruise vessel it doesn't count? Reading some of the comments it sure feels like that. And a non cycling partner can stay on the vessel while it does daytime passages port to port.

Merlijn was suggested no less than four times above, but appears to have been just dismissed nem com (without even looking at the option), on the basis of one other poster who hasn't even done a Merlijn voyage.
How does that work? Except it was not deemed to be not serious enough cycling.

I watched the Emma video a while back (before this thread) and am already a subscriber to her channel. I like Emma and her views.

I IMMEDIATELY discounted the Merlijn back then and think I would still NOW for the sort of cycling I think Hank (and I) is looking for. I do think the small owner-operated canal boat entrepreneur approach might be a likely solution. If I remember from the Merlijn website, a lot of the dates were booked up by private sorts of groups, so there is likely a way to work with them or someone like them for a cycling adventure.

Costs will always remain my issue, mainly because you can find some REALLY nice hotels for ~$400/night, so having a spouse along to run logistics or riding with panniers are both way more affordable than most (all?) options I've seen so far.

But this thread seems as much about "spitballing" ideas as actually having a decisive winner, although I hope we do find the perfect match for Hank's goal.

Merlijn was suggested no less than four times above, but appears to
have been just dismissed nem com (without even looking at the option),
on the basis of one other poster who hasn't even done a Merlijn
voyage.

How does that work? Except it was not deemed to be not serious enough
cycling.

Bear in mind that Emma is a frugal voyager, and pretty much a non
cyclist. If it suited her surely it is at least worth a consideration.

Or is that the voyaging clique?- that if it isn't a non American
standard luxury cruise vessel it doesn't count? Reading some of the
comments it sure feels like that. And a non cycling partner can stay
on the vessel while it does daytime passages port to port.

After the long "don't be a **** thread, are you serious? You are magically conjuring ways to be offended, and then lashing out with barbs as sharp as you think you can get away with. It's weird behavior. You have permission to ignore me and my posts if you get triggered - I won't take offense! Really - just swipe left and leave it in your merry wake, no need tick the BP up even a smidge :)

FWIW, I carefully read Merlijn's website, and watched the Emma videos. I really like that it's an independently owned, family runs small business. Looks terrific.

I batched Merlijn in with many other bike-boat outfits I nixed on grounds outlined in a post above.

Merlijn appears to fully guided their rides, and, according the young and also somehow old Emma, seem to run a leader and sweeper whom you always ride between.

From Merlijn's website: "Our daily guided bike tours are always with the whole group, it may happen that not everyone has the same cycling level. Our professional guides can handle this well and will do everything possible to give everyone a great experience. Hereby the very experienced cyclist should take into account the leisure nature of our tours." This for me is a full disqualifier.

I'm not apologizing for not handling every suggestion individually, but do hope it is edifying to you that your effort in suggesting Merlijn was not ignored. In fact I spent a solid hour between the videos and reading their website. I can say that they do seem like the size outfit one might approach for a special dispensation to ride farther and without supervision. As I said I like dealing with small family operations.

Thanks

One of the problems I see is how far a European river vessel can actually move in a day, and whether that is actually sufficient for this sort of proposed cycling range, whether or not you find the right vessel. Given the locks and the speed limits on the European rivers you would suspect it may be 80 to 100 miles a day if moving by day. Maybe between 100 and 150 miles for the "Viking" style commercial ships which move predominantly by night.

I have been mulling over whether the British wide beam rivers may be suitable- the Thames, the Severn, the Commercial Yorkshire Rivers (east of Leeds), the Manchester Ship Canal and the waterways of East Anglia. The first three do have owner/operator boats. Although whether you could tie up a Thames and a Severn cruise is a moot point. In this country I doubt whether a barge would do more than 30 or so miles a day on the rivers.
The Severn is more of a problem now the sternwheeler the Oliver Cromwell no longer runs, but far from impossible. The Thames has many possibilities to suit pretty most budgets.

On the Manchester Ship Canal you could cruise one way on the Liverpool to Manchester day cruise, and ride back. That ship certainly take cycles.

And the question is whether there is enough surrounding cycling infrastructure (off river) to suit your needs, as you might cycle the Thames in 2 days and the Severn in 2 days. In East Anglia (which certainly has the cycling infrastructure) that would almost certainly need a self drive boat.

In all cases my suspicion is you could find enough off river cycle routes to get the mileage up with thought and planning.

Would the TransPennine E9 route (Southport to Hull) be an option- I don't know. Not sure how long the British section of the E9 would take you.

But I don't know if you are interested in the UK rivers.

I appreciate that information - worth thinking about regardless of where a barge might be rented. Thanks!

You may have already ruled this out as too expensive and regimented but Backroads charters I believe AMA Waterways river cruises, sometimes as part of a regular cruise and sometimes the entire ship. You pay a premium (over the regular river cruise fare) to Backroads for their group tour/activities including group rides which (don’t quote me) sometimes will meet the ship further up/down river at the next port. I think entire ship cruises divide groups by skill level/ride distances whereas if the Backroads group makes up just part of the passengers then they stick together for Backroads activities (but you or your travel companion could opt out of riding and do a regular cruise excursion if you wanted to take a break or recovery day). Backroads website has more info than AMA if I remember correctly.

SQ the AMA Backroads tours look delightful. I actually think you could get in enough riding - I believe that they will "allow" one to vary from the program at their own risk.

The people I know who book Backroads cycling tours are CEO types, managing partners, doctors with booming practices, etc. They're busy, they don't have a ton of vacation, they want it to be nice, they want it to be taken care of. They don't know the route, they're not bringing a bike but they want a good one, etc.

Backroads is a really good product if these are your needs. I, on the other hand, have an embarrassing amount of time off and spend a lot of time in Europe. I think I could get about the same amount and quality of riding with my oen bike and some of the cheaper bike-barge outfits. Maybe not as nice, maybe not staffing at the same level or quality. But perfectly serviceable and pleasant.

But yeah, I would do a Backroads/AMA tour no problem if It presented itself as the right opportunity :) thanks