Benefits of having an EU passport?

If you're an EU citizen you have freedom of movement within the EU. And that can be an advantage.

Although I am a bit confused about the phrase "legal Italian citizens". Either you are an Italian citizen or you're not an Italian citizen. And if you are an Italian citizen, all you need to do is to apply for a passport. That is not a long and bureaucratic process.

The rules for your wife are a bit more complicated, but if I'm not wrong it would not be too hard for her to get a residence permit in Italy if you're a citizen.

Besides the benefits in Europe, there are some benefits in other countries as well. Visa-free access to China for short stays, no e-visa required in Brazil, and a few other countries with visa-free access too.

I'm an Italian citizen by Jure Sanguinis. Legally the way it works is that if the correct blood descent line exists, then you are an Italian citizen. In my case the blood descent line exists. I am Italian.

Whether or not that fact is recognized by the Italian government though is a different story. It needs to be properly documented and filed to be recognized. But even if that never happens, the way the legal precept functions is that I'm in my blood Italian - the paper isn't what makes it so. I don't go from not being Italian to being Italian by being awarded an Italian passport, rather my Italian citizenship is recognized.

Of course though Badger, as I think you are pointing out, the distinction is semantic. At best my Italian citizenship is useless unrecognized - practically speaking it may as well not exist if unrecognized. To pervert Berkeley, if an Italian falls into Hoboken, and no one recognizes him, can he still ride a Vespa while talking on the phone? :)

So yeah, technically am, effectively not. I'm wondering if it's worth the hassle. Probably yes?

balso I didn't think about easier visas for other countries. Thanks!

Either you are an Italian citizen or you're not an Italian citizen. And if you are an Italian citizen, all you need to do is to apply for a passport. That is not a long and bureaucratic process.

You have to evidence your right to citizenship if going along the blood line route which can be a long and bureaucratic process. I'm doing the same for myself and my two sons with respect to Polish citizenship although I've employed the services of a Polish based lawyer to do the hard work.

Congratulations on that JC.

I suppose I do have to think about expense. I'm sure there are parts of the process where you want to use a lawyer, seems like an absolute nightmare to get something wrong. If you did you could be stuck in that bureaucratic system forever ....

I'm assuming it's going to cost around ten grand, admittedly just a wild guess.

The main advantages you already know, you can legally reside, and work if you were that age, in any of the EU countries once you are fully, legally, recognized as a citizen (passport or not).

You can also visit freely any Non-EU Schengen countries (Switzerland, Iceland, Norway), though there may be a few other hurdles for residency.

As was mentioned, maybe a few other options for Visa Free travel.

Drawbacks?

If you choose residency in any of the EU countries, then there are tax obligations both there, and still in the US to consider.

Legal rights, while any traveler to a country is subject to the laws of that country, if you were to commit an offense, you would be viewed as an Italian citizen, in the eyes of Italy and any EU country involved. You could not suddenly consider your self an American and go to the US embassy seeking representation and help in resolution. Not that the US embassy is an extensive help in these matters anyway, but they do keep tabs on you.

There could at some point be other matters that could affect you with taxes, inheritance laws, mandatory military service, etc. but many are dependent on you being resident, as opposed to a non-resident citizen.

My husband and 3 adult children "reclaimed" Luxembourg citizenship through my husband's ggrandparent (or gg?) in 2022. They presented documents in Luxembourg in August 2022 and received their official letters in Jan 2023, but still have not received an appointment to apply for the passport. There is such a backlog because of the 10 year (ended) reclammation period. This also will enable any grandchildren to also have rights to citizenship, however, there may be no grandchildren. 😞

I'm assuming it's going to cost around ten grand, admittedly just a wild guess.

Using the Polish legal firm will cost just over £3k for three applicants, most of that is to cover the cost of record searches and to submit all the documentary application in Polish which I would struggle with. I have no idea what the Italian process would cost but I would imagine that it would be much lower than ten grand.

There are commercial services that will help you with the process; I can’t imagine it would cost $10,000.

But not everyone with Italian ancestry is automatically a citizen jus sanguinis. Italy has rather complicated rules for qualification which you can see here.

https://conslosangeles.esteri.it/en/servizi-consolari-e-visti/servizi-per-il-cittadino-straniero/cittadinanza/citizenship-by-descent/

Assuming neither of your parents was actually born in Italy, you will have to fit into one of the listed categories. And if there is a female anywhere in the line of descent (your mom, grandmother or great- grandmother, it is more difficult, because of this rule:

“A woman can transfer citizenship only to her children born after January 1st, 1948, if she was not a naturalized citizen of another country before her child’s birth”. That means if you are claiming citizenship through an Italian grandmother, her child ( your parent) must have been born after 1948.

If not, you would have to appeal to an Italian civil court, and at that point it could get expensive.

If the line of descent goes through one of your grandfathers then it is simpler.

I guess that brings some life to the term “fatherland”.

I wouldn't have to think beyond: Not subject to the 90-days-within-180-days Schengen limit. Do it! I curse my ancestors for having immigrated to the US so early. I don't know when that happened, but there are no family legends about great-grandparents who didn't speak English, etc.

Sasha thanks for the rules run down. I've checked thoroughly; my bloodline clearly qualifies. Agree the 1948 rule eliminating sex discrimination in Italian citizenship by descent came too late.

acraven the no more 90 day rule aspect really is a great upside., particularly once retired.

My three sons qualify and are thinking of applying.

When we looked into it, ≈ $10k was also what we heard from others. We decided that we wouldn't have enough future trips (or long trips) to make it worthwhile solely for the purpose of travel. If we were younger, maybe.

I do not see how a law that limits a woman’s right to pass on her Italian citizenship to her children born in 1948 or later “eliminates sex discrimination “.

The 1948 constitutional amendment made bloodlines gender neutral, not patriarchal as they were previously. So it went from discriminatory by sex to not discriminatory by sex after 1948. It eliminated sex discrimination after 1948.

And notice that I agree with you that it's not right. We're on the same side here.

But the discrimination still exists. Anyone who wants to rely on their Nonna to gain Italian citizenship has to have their half-Italian parent born in 1948 or later.

If they have a Nonno instead of a Nonna there is no problem.

Isn’t that discrimination?

Or maybe it is age discrimination as it would mostly affect people now in their 50’s and 60’s.

I'm in the document research grind right now. I know the history and who these people are, but if it's not on paper in the right way it doesn't work.

But today I found my great-grandfather's US port entry log, his marriage certificate, and the names of his mother and father. The information snowball keeps getting bigger and bigger. Fingers crossed!

No, we are not on the same page. The law did not eliminate discrimination , it created more, based on an ancestor being born before or after 1948, and the gender of their parent.

Maybe you have cousins who descended from a daughter of your same great-grandfather, instead of a son. Have you talked to them about this?

Lucky you. I could claim Austrian citizenship through the Austrian-born grandfather, but I would have to give up my US citizenship according to Austrian law. Waiting for the government to change that law as I’m not ready to surrender my US passport yet.

Lucky you. I could claim Austrian citizenship through the Austrian-born grandfather, but I would have to give up my US citizenship according to Austrian law.

I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to give up my British citizenship either. Fortunately UK law doesn't place a limit on how many foreign passports one can own, I'm also eligible for Irish citizenship and it would only cost me €248 so I'm considering a little collection.

Sasha can you leave my thread alone please? I'm trying to get some general information about EU citizenship, don't want to sidetrack into a debate over some sliver of language usage that apparently displays you as a brave feminist and me a sexist pig. That's flatly wrong, and rather insulting, and comes off to me as the sort of left against left useless virtue signalling our Seattle area is famous for.

Of course the law before 1948 was sexist, and that wasn't right, and there's a legacy of that that affects some current day women and men with arbitrary unfairness. I apologize for saying the 1948 move to make blood lines sex neutral going forward "eliminated" discrimination without explaining the entire context. I meant going forward, like women's suffrage eliminated sex discrimination in voting going forward. If you've sufficiently called me out for that crime, can you let it go now please so information about the intended topic can flow into this thread. I'd very much appreciate that kindness. Thank you.

Emily hi. I have an Austrian great grandmother who came to the US in around 1910, never naturalized, had children here. But I think that doesn't qualify for Austrian citizenship? Isn't there some sort of fleeing Nazi oppression aspect to Austria's system of blood descent? Is that what happened to your family?

JC I miss the Irish descent rule by a generation. My Irish great grandfather came to the USA and had kids before he naturalized, Greases the skids to an Irish passport by shortening some timelines, but not automatic like if he'd been my grandfather. Or Italian :)

Shame you missed out on the Irish descent route, it really is a lot easier than some of the other citizenship applications. Unfortunately my sons also missed out on Irish eligibility. If I had gained Irish citizenship before they were born then they'd be eligible but I wasn't looking at the whole citizenship aspect at that point.

Emily, I think you would also need to reside in Austria and speak German (I'm guessing you do? Your location lists Austria). Austria doesn't have a citizenship for second generation, meaning you would have to go through the naturalisation process like anyone without Austrian ancestors would and your grandfather's citizenship wouldn't be relevant ( I mean, of course it is relevant to YOU, but not in terms of nationality/citizenship).

Hank. Assuming you are correct, it is a very long process because it has to be proven, as you mentioned. I have a Brazilian friend with who has been in the process of proving his right for years. Lawyers in Italy, getting proof from some village in Italy, waiting for a court decision.
So, if you want to claim it, get the process moving.

What are the advantages? You are a citizen with all the rights and privileges of a citizen, so no visa requirements, no income requirements, and they can't kick you out. You can come and go as you wish.

You will at some point be eligible for the national healthcare program, if you set up residency.
You can sponsor your spouse. You can live in any EU country you choose.

If you don't want to live in the EU, you can still travel back and forth as much as you want with no barriers to entry. You enter the EU on your EU passport and enter the US on your US passport. Yes, you would need to carry both passports. I have 2 passports and they came in handy during Covid because I was free to fly back and forth as a citizen of the US and as a citizen of Sweden.