Belgium or Switzerland?

Belgium is one of the least scenic countries in Europe if you're talking about natural landscape as opposed to architecture, and Switzerland one of the most.

Flanders - Brugge and Gent among many others - have distinctly Flemish and Dutch architecture, unlike anything you will see in France or England. The polder land is also completely different.

As mountainous as parts of Switzerland can be, Flanders is flat. Makes Kansas look like the Rockies.

You don't need to waste time flying to Brussels. The same Eurostar train that links the centres of London and Paris also links the centres of Brussels and London.

30-60 minute check in, passport control at the origin station, 2 hours train trip centre to centre (cheap if bought in advance) sure as heck beats an hour to the airport, 2 hours for check in, hour flight, half an hour or so to clear immigration, and half an hour into town; 2.5-3 hours train versus 5 hours flying plus all the flying theatre. No (sensible) baggage limit on the train, either.

I go to Switzerland almost every year. If you are not careful it can add up quickly. I'm very careful of my money and find that I can have very happy trip up in the mountains for not a lot more than in Italy, France, or Luxembourg. Every country has some things less expensive and more expensive than its neighbors. It is a question of being careful about the more expensive ones.

For example, restaurants in France can be more or less expensive, tending towards more. Netherlands has expensive hotel rooms, as does Paris. Food in Belgium and Germany can be very inexpensive.

There are swings and roundabouts.

My vote is switzerland. You can manage in pvt rm hostels or ibis properties thru out switz.
U will not see such beauty anywhere. I budget carefullymax $150 per ni lodging for 2.with bAnd b brfast usually incl. skip fancy restaurant and liquor. Restaurants post menu in front, snacking a gd way to eat healthy and filling. Trains can get costly so perhaps a pass if your stay is lengthy.
If u rent a car it would up your costs and be less enjoyyable imo. Trains go everywhere frequently.
Happy planning, it goes a long way to a success and affordable trip.
Pls keep brugge in mind however for someother time, it is a fairytale place.

Amsterdam >> Belgium (Bruges, Ghent & Brussels) >> Paris >> Loire Valley >> Provence >> Annecy >> Lyon
or
Paris >> Loire Valley >> Provence >> Lyon >> Annecy >> Switzerland (Geneva, Lausanne & Luzern) >> Zurich

I think both are great choices, but would lean to Switzerland in May.

The scenery in Switzerland is more stunning than flat Belgium, but you are already visiting the French Alps. The Belgian towns that you have suggested are IMO more interesting than the Swiss towns. Costs can easily spiral in Switzerland compared to the more modest Belgium. You don't want to be conscious the whole time of how much things cost.

I assume that most of the trip will be in France, so I would opt for Belgium. Scenery in France and interesting towns in Belgium.

Take the train to Belgium from London or fly from Scotland, but don't fly from London..

I know you said your daughter would be happy to go anywhere in Europe, but what does she really like when on vacation? History, architecture, art, museums? Or does she lean more toward nature, scenery, outdoor activities? I think for me that would be the deciding factor. I don't think I would let the expense of Switzerland be the deciding factor since you can minimize the cost in lots of ways and still enjoy the beauty of Switzerland.

...beautiful scenery.. that means Switzerland. Although not all of Belgium is flat, southern Belgium has Ardennes (battle of the Bulge happened there), still cannot compare to Switzerland.

For me, it comes down to chocolate, so I would say go to Belgium! Beer and waffles are an added bonus.

Seriously, since I travel on a rather tight budget, Switzerland is expensive to me - if you can stay on the French, Italian or even Austrian side of the border, you get the same scenery for less money. Plus you don't have to learn Swiss francs in addition to euro.

Keep in mind that the Swiss Alps are not at their best in May. Much of the infrastructure is temporarily closed, as the farmer prep the pastures for cattle grazing. Weather can also be particularly wet and cloudy. For the cost, it's a real gamble for the Swiss Alps to be worth their value in at this time of year, especially if you will have seen the French Alps immediately prior.

Maybe I'm alone here, but I find Belgium quite scenic, if in a very different way from Switzerland. True, the region mostly visited by foreign tourists (the provinces of Antwerp, West and East Flanders) are heavily industrialized and mostly flat. However, the rolling hills of the Haspengouw region are beautiful in the spring. I would never compare the Ardennes to the glory of the Swiss Alps, but I wouldn't discount the area either. I also find the wide sandy beaches of the Belgian coast the most pleasant in Europe, although it will be far to cold to bathe in May.

Switzerland is expensive, but it is not as bad now as when the Swiss franc was $1.20 US. Today it is par (1:1, or $1.00).

Tom makes a good point about the Swiss Alps but I see your planned visit does not include being "in" the Alps. Luzern and Lausanne are both on lakes that moderate the climate, and both are at lower elevations than the mountains nearby. Both should be OK in May. Personally I would to spend any time in Geneva---your money will disappear quickly there.

The trick to keeping costs down in Switzerland is to find affordable lodging and budget meals. In Luzern, Hotel Stern a good choice---double rooms under 180 CHF:

http://www.sternluzern.ch/en

If Lausanne proves difficult in terms of lodging, look in Montreux, or consider smaller lakeside towns nearby, such as Vevey (near Montreux) or Morges (west of Lausanne). The train stops at all these towns.

The Coop groceries offer an array of "grab and go" meals and sometimes a hot food bar. You can eat quite well there.

Climate wise Switzerland is somewhat unpredictable year round. Best for warm, dry and sunny would probably be Sept/Oct. May won't be quite as warm yet as the high summer months but no worse in terms of rain. Example: Lucerne.

Also infrastructure being closed is not a problem everywhere. There are plenty of places to explore that are serviced year round. The Pilatus (mountain near Lucerne) railway for example opens beginning/mid May. And the Rigi (also near Lucerne is also serviced year round).

Thank you all for your insight & suggestions!

I have a few questions & answers for some of you:

1. Nigel, since we will be starting our trip in Edinburgh, doesn't it
   make more sense to fly to Brussels?

2. Nigel, what's the name of your favorite chocolatier in Ghent, or is it in Bruges?

3. Tom, what cities/ towns do you recommend in the Haspengouw region?

4. .Nancy, my daughter likes history, architecture (castles over churches), some art & museums, however, I'd say she prefers natural
   scenery over buildings.

5. Have any of you visited Annecy?

I definitely need to do more research on both Belgium & Switzerland before making my final decision.

Thanks again for your input!

Priscilla

.

Priscilla,

Both countries have pros & cons, but of the two choices my preference would definitely be Switzerland (despite the cost). I find the different linguistic areas in Switzerland to be interesting, the scenery is incredible, there are some unique sights such as the Jungfraujoch and Schilthorn, good museums and of course they also have great chocolate. Yes, it can be expensive but I allow for that in the budget and try to get back there when I can.

I absolutely loved Annecy, one of my favorite places in France. Luckily I had wonderful weather when I was there in July and it was just beautiful, especially the boat trip around the lake.

Hmmmm, you can see imperceptibly different snowy peaks in Colorado, Montana, Alberta, etc. for about 20% of the cost of going to Switzerland and if you choose carefully you could have a whole peak to yourself. Of course you can't see all those stylish bank lobbies unless you go to Switzerland (and all those fab cuckoo clock museums!).

Really, go to Belgium for the history and architecture and better chocolate, too. Save Switzerland for when your health requires a sanitarium.

Tom, what cities/ towns do you recommend in the Haspengouw region?

There's really only three cities of any size- Hasselt (which actually sits on the northern edge), Tongeren and St. Truiden. All three very pleasant, if unspectacular. The beauty of the region, however, is best experienced by in the countryside, whether by foot, car or bicycle. Borgloon comes to mind as a smaller town worth a visit, but mainly as a base to hike or cycle. Belgium doesn't have anything like the extensive network of foot paths that criss-cross Germany, but the there's still plenty of good marked hiking trails. I'm zooming in on Haspengau, because that's where I've spent the most time walking in Belgium.

Hi Priscilla,

Both places are interesting areas to visit and which you decide is really a matter of personal taste. I suggest watching some of Rick's programs on both areas and seeing which looks the most interesting to you. You can watch any of Rick's shows online here: www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/video/tv-show

Having been to both areas several times, I'd choose Switzerland for the scenery. It is an expensive country, but as others have mentioned, if you plan accordingly, you don't have to spend a fortune. I'd also skip Geneva and stay in Lausanne. There's a great hostel called Lausanne Guesthouse and Backpacker, right near the train station which also has private rooms, all with a view of the lake - www.lausanne-guesthouse.ch. From Lausanne, you can take the Golden Pass scenic train from Montreux to Luzern, which is a beautiful train ride. See this webpage for details: www.goldenpass.ch

Hope that helps!

Tom_MN wrote:-

see all those stylish bank lobbies unless you go to Switzerland (and all those fab cuckoo clock museums!).

Where in Switzerland did you see these, Tom_MN? I go every year and have never seen banks such as you describe. Usually bank branches are quite subdued and not always easy to find. I do all my banking at ATMs on the outside of various buildings; sometimes banks but more often at supermarkets.

As for a cuckoo clock museum, I've never seen one in Switzerland. Where are they? I'm used to seeing a few in Germany, particularly in the Black Forest and tourist towns along the middle Rhine. What have I missed?

Priscilla,

to answer your two direct questions,

I quote from the answer I gave in motorgirl's thread a couple of months ago, similar to my previous answers over the years about chocolate in Gent:-

Well I still have some research to do - there are father and son and I
haven't yet made it to the son's store, although I hear that they are
very similar. Between the Mystic Lamb in the cathedral and the wedding
balcony on the town hall, is Sint Baafsplein, 15. At that wonderful
address, right on the corner, you can find the small shop of Van
Hoorebeke Chocolatier, and the chocolates made by the father, Luc.
Cédric, the son, has his shop nearer to the Marriott and the canal. It
is still on my list. Details on their website -
http://chocolatesvanhoorebeke.be/en/

and as for flying from Scotland without visiting London - you could, I suppose, skip England completely and fly direct. I'm sure that there must be flights. It just struck me that you would want to visit London on the way and see some of the magic there. Samuel Johnson, known as Dr Johnson wrote at about the time of the American Revolutionary War, ‘...when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life’.

It is still true now.

Another thing to consider is what places will your daughter visit during her semester abroad? It is easy for her to visit London, Paris and Belgium on her own or with outings planned by the school.

Enjoy the planning and the trip!

I think I would plan to go to Switzerland if you've never been. It's quite spectacular. Especially if you visit the Berner-Oberland and stay in Mürren. It's incredible up there.

I haven't visited the towns you mentioned except changing planes in Geneva a couple times, but I highly recommend a couple nights in the mountains.

Tom_MN wrote:-

see all those stylish bank lobbies unless you go to Switzerland (and all those fab cuckoo clock museums!).

Where in Switzerland did you see these?

Cockoo clocks are German so I'd say in the black forest. ;-)

Is this a question about chocolate ??

I was being cheeky about bank lobbies and cuckoo clocks (the chalet style is actually a Swiss invention).

I just don't see the point of a North American going all the way to Europe to look at mountains, rather like an Australian going to Europe just to hang out at the beach. There are better uses of the opportunity.

Gosh, I live near the Mountains (can see them off the back deck and can drive an hour plus to be in them) and yes, I think Switzerland looks totally different than my mountains! After having been to the Berner Oberland I am eager to go back even though I've traveled pretty widely in the Rockies.

Have to agree the Alps seem much different from the Rockies, and I have been to and thru our Rockies many many times, only been to Switzerland three time and it certainly has a certain something the Rockies don't( but the Rockies are of course wonderful too! )

Sorry I have been to Belgium three times also, but once just passing thru , and I was not wowed ..its " pleasant".

First of all, I'd like to thank you all for your helpful, interesting & amusing comments!

You all have valid points & I will take them all into consideration.

Nancy, it's great to hear that you loved Annecy! When I read this; "Annecy has been called the Venice of the Alps" (Frommer's France book), I thought to myself... Hmmm...it sounds amazing!

Ken, I always appreciate your insightful comments, thanks!

Tom (Lewiston, NY): I just had a peaceful moment enjoying the beautiful photos (thanks to google maps) of all the places you mentioned above & now I'm interested in visiting some of them-- especially Borgloon!
I presume we can get there via public transportation, right?

Tom_MN,
BTW, I used to have one of those cuckoo clocks! It was a souvenir I purchased in Munich many years ago :-)

Rich, I've watched many of RS travel videos & enjoy them all. I've also read about the Golden Pass scenic train from Montreux to Luzern & it sounds spectacular!

Nigel, Thanks for the info about the Van Hoorebeke Chocolatier. We will make sure to eat lots of chocolate from there if we end up going to Ghent!

The main reason we are skipping London on this trip: I've already experienced the magic of London, and my daughter plans to visit London while living in Edinburgh (she has a couple of friends who are presently studying/living in London)

Beth, "Another thing to consider is what places will your daughter visit during her semester abroad?"

I totally agree! It's a challenging task... to plan a trip without knowing where she will travel when she's there.

I've been told that the students are encouraged to travel within the UK, however, many student do
travel to Ireland & Amsterdam. Some even venture out to Copenhagen & beyond!

David (Australia), Chocolate??? Well... sort of... It's about some North American going all the way to Europe to look at mountains while eating Belgium & Swiss chocolates! Sounds great, doesn't it! ;-)

Pam, I hear you! I've lived in southern California most of my life now & enjoy walking on the beach but I love going to Hawaii !

Thanks everyone!

Priscilla

"rather like an Australian going to Europe just to hang out at the beach"
I have done this. You know why? Cause you meet Europeans on European beaches. Wink !!

David (Australia),
Funny! I've traveled all the way to Greece to go swimming in 'Ornos' beach (Mykonos) while my mom (who was in charge of watching my backpack) took a peaceful nap on a lounge chair under a beach umbrella!