Bank PINs in Europe

It is an urban rumor that fails to die. Maybe forty or fifty years ago that was true when ATMs first came into existence zero was reserved for system operations both in the US and Europe. Now it doesn't make any difference. Your zero will work just fine.

Thanks for the reply. Is that also the case for chip credit cards? The zero info actually came from an agent at my credit card company when I called to change the PIN that had been automatically generated.

The PIN for my primary ATM card starts with zero. I have used it successfully throughout Europe over the last 10 years. I can't answer your question about credit card PINs as I have not needed to use it.

That narrows it down. Many thanks.

As I said, it refuses to die. He just heard it somewhere and it sounds good. Keep in mind that that credit cards are almost a commodity so the credit card computer is going to first check if you are in Europe and using a zero and then deny it but it you are in the US, then it is ok. The CC computer will care less where you physically are.

My ATM used to start with '00'. I used it succesfully for over ten years.

I think that myth started when people had alphabetic "PINs". There are no letters associated with '0' (or with '1').

UPDATE: Thanks to everyone who responded. I'm now sure that a bank ATM card will work with a "0" PIN. I'd like to hear from anyone who has used a chip and PIN CREDIT CARD with a "0" as the PIN's first digit. I know I'm being picky but don't want to change these numbers or get caught in a bind.

I don't know why there would be any difference. The chip and signature card has not been around long enough for anyone to know if for some very odd reason that the zero would not work. Don't know how many different ways we can tell you that you will be ok.

Your PIN for an ATM and a Credit/Debit POS will be the same number.

Just be aware your pin needs to be 4 numbers, not more.

Susan and Monte, are you sure?
This has been repeated for many years, but I suspect this is either an Urban Myth, or ancient history. European banks issue 6-digit PIN's to their customers, and have been for years. I have one card with a 6-digit PIN (issued by a Swiss bank), and one with a PIN starting with '0' (issued for a British bank), and have been using both without problems for years.
Either this is something specific to US-issued cards, or it is total b---s--t.

I started this with an inquiry about bank and credit cards. It's pretty clear that the bank card for ATMs are fine with 0 as the first digit. But it's somewhat less clear regarding my Visa and Mastercards for CREDIT purchases. Does anyone have specific user-info on that issue? (Or did I misunderstand some posts?) Thanks again to all.

That's always been plan B, but this is a worthwhile issue to sort out.

Just be aware your pin needs to be 4 numbers, not more.

The other urban myth that refuses to die...

Well....the four digits....am I sure? Nope! Just what I heard and didn't want to "test" it so I changed mine to a 4 digit before we left. I could be totally wrong, but don't want to find out the hard way since we use 95% cash on our trips.

... Your so-called myth is someone's reality...... NO, it is a myth. Their card could be reject for a host of other problems that has nothing to do with a six digit code. Think it through. If your card issuer allows a ten digit code, it will work ---- because --- When you shove your card into the ATM, depending on the type of card, a network (generally cirrus or plus) is accessed, the computer knows exact where to look for you account, finds your account, and then sits there waiting for you to plug in your password - be it four digits, six digits, whatever has been assigned to the account, you match it, you are in. The computer is not sitting there thinking - they are at a European ATM therefore I will only accept the first four digits. it just doesn't work that way. The European bank who owns the ATM has absolutely nothing to do with your transaction so a four digit or six digit code means nothing to them.

Everything that happens or doesn't happen with your card is solely determine by the card issuer. The sole exception is the possibility of an ATM usage fee that is determined by the owner of the ATM. That fee is common in the US and some other parts of the world. I have not seen ATM usage fees in Europe.

However, these types of discussions tending be like smoke on the wind. Just keep swirling around.

Please let's be civil--at least more civil than the U.S. Republican presidential candidates!! That should be simple.

According to the stats, the majority of PIN numbers begin either with 1 or zero, as all American format dates start with those, and two thirds of dates in the rest of the world start with them as well. My recent credit card came with an initial PIN set with a '0', the BoA sounds like it is suggesting to its customers not to use something guessable.

Mrs EB - There is nothing wrong with suggesting it is "safer" to have a 4 digit PIN when traveling. But almost every example you provide also states not to have the PIN start with a 0 too. THAT is very much no longer a problem as numerous people have PINs that begin with 0 and have no problems. So to reference those to prove that 6 digit PINs don't work in Europe is a bit odd as they are wrong about the 0. It is also possible that some ATMs don't accept a 6 digit PIN and perhaps your experience was one of those machines. But 6 digit PINs do work on a regular basis all across Europe based on people that actually have and use 6 digit PINs.

And per your observation, none of us are doubting what you heard, but there is nothing that proves this was actually the problem. All you overheard was what they think was wrong. And even if they were right, if they were smart then they just walked down the street to the next bank's ATM and got money there.

There is a tendency on this forum to suggest people make all kinds of changes to their financial systems just for a 2 week vacation. New bank accounts and different credit cards and now changing their PINs. PINs are something people need to remember and have consistent for them. I would consider changing my PIN to be a big deal, especially if it isn't necessary.

PS - Doing a quick Google search indicates that 5 and 6 digit PINs are a newer thing in Europe and that a few years ago, having 4 digit PIN WAS good advice. It may also be possible that some older ATM machines won't accept a 5 or 6 digit PIN, which could have been what happened with Mrs. EB's example. But most do and some people have reported being able to use the first 4 digits of their 6 digit PIN if the machine won't take more than 4 digits. If Europeans with 5 and 6 digits couldn't get cash when traveling around Europe, it would be a big deal there.

So it seems the most accurate thing to say on PIN length is that some older machines may not take more than 4 digits but may accept the first 4 digits of a longer PIN. If that doesn't work, use a different machine.

Things change all the time and the good thing about this forum is keeping people up to date on the latest changes (myself included). This seems to be one of those things, just as a "don't have a PIN starting with 0" advice (the OP's actual question) was outdated many years ago.

Agreed that it is fine to state that 4 digit PINs are universally accepted. But sometimes people want to know if their 6 digit PIN will work and would prefer not to change it. In those cases, there is more than enough evidence online of actual people, mostly Europeans, that successfully use 5 and 6 digit PINs across the continent. What would be proper advice is to warn them that some ATMs may be older machines and won't take the longer PIN. In those cases, either try just the first 4 digits or use a different machine. This is a similar situation that people have with magnetic strip credit cards: sometimes they are accepted and sometimes not. Or chip & signature cards, those do not work universally either.

And keep in mind that many of the bank advice statements about using PINs internationally are blanket statements the world over and not specifically for Europe.

2 days ago I made the call to my bank to put the travel notice on my acct. Before we hung up from the call she told me to make sure I add 00 to the end of my normal 4 digit pin # when using ATM's in Europe.
It is a chip card.

Wow! A new twist to the discussion. More comments and thoughts?

Sure. Change it to a 4 digit pin that is easy to remember. Then change it to the original pin when you return home. I always use a birthday that I am completely familiar with. Easy breezy. Problem solved.

I used an ATM with a 6 digit PIN in France for about 15 years. I now have a 4 digit PIN, only because it's a different bank. No problems. It appears to me that the banks quoted above don't know what they're talking about. That wouldn't surprise me, particularly since one of them is the bank I use.