Balkans in 6 weeks - Attempt #2

Given the ground you're trying to cover and the time you have available, 5 nights feels about right for Budapest, though there's a lot to see there and you may be reluctant to leave.

I would definitely not day-trip to Subotica from Budapest; that would require too much transportation time heading back north. I made a relatively short visit to Subotica by bus from Szeged (a very attractive city) because I wanted to see the Art Nouveau architecture in both places.

One thing you'll want to do in Subotica is get some Serbian currency, so check out the location of ATMs ahead of time. I didn't research actual go-inside sights in Subotica; there may be some that I missed. Otherwise, you might be able to move on after a few hours, assuming you can find a place to stash your luggage while you sightsee.

I'm not sure I'd want to overnight in both Subotica and Novi Sad when you've got only two nights planned in places like Beograd and Venice. However, Subotica and Novi Sad are interesting to see, and I realize you may not have a lot of train or bus departures to choose from; perhaps those nights will both prove necessary in order to assure at least a few hours of sightseeing in each place.

What are your plans in Kotor? I spent a good bit of time there, but I took multiple day-trips. Kotor itself is rather small; 5 nights would be a lot if you don't plan to go to Budva, Herceg Novi, Cetinje, etc. Then again, Kotor comes immediately after what I suspect is going to be the toughest part of the trip. You may be ready to crash at that point.

I like Zagreb a lot, but if you don't happen to be a big fan of art, you might be able to get by with just nights there. I spent a lot of my time in the many art museums and more time than the typical tourist just walking the streets in the historic district, appreciating the architecture.

Lake Bled is lovely but quite small. You can walk all the way around it in just a few hours. There's no need to spend the night there (much less two nights); buses from Ljubljana make a day-trip workable, or a taxi might be affordable. In 2015 there was usually a taxi driver hanging out near the Bled bus station just before the Ljubljana bus was due in, looking for people who wanted to get back to the city a bit faster. The going rate at that time was about 7 euros if the taxi left full. I saw no evidence of similar activity going in the other direction, but I wasn't looking for it.

On the other hand, if you want to drive through the Julian Alps, two nights would be very nice. I haven't been to the Julian Alps, but we've had positive reports from those who have.

Two nights in Venice is painfully short. Is this your first trip there? I'd want at least 3 nights, and that's only a bare minimum. Definitely Venice needs more time than Split (as well as Kotor). But perhaps you plant a trip to one of the islands while you're in Split?

I can't comment on the Skopje-Berat segment; I haven't been to any of those places.

By “wrong side of the road,” you mean right side, right? 😊

Thanks acraven. I didn't mean we'd day trip to Subotica from Budapest - rather that (ideally, I haven't checked train schedules) - we'd arrive around midday have 1/2 a day there and then carry onto Novi Sad for that night. I know there is work happening on that line so the details won't become clearer until next year I'd say. I'm hoping that train stations still have left luggage or lockers (or the local hotel will take the bags for a tip)

Kotor I want to use as a base - to do day trips to Bdva, Cetinje etc. But also as a break - its roughly 1/2 way and also probably we will have done the toughest part by then (at least we'll be back with Latin alphabet which helps a bit!) . And maybe take a day to do the laundry, eat 3 large meals and hang out on the beach days too!

My partner's list was a bit shorter than mine: Budapest, Dubrovnik, and Split (game of thrones and Roman Empire i suspect). Also might do a day trip to Hvar

My gut feel is that we will be someone over lakes by the time we get to Bled - so I'm thinking of hiring a car mainly to do that cool switch back road up into the Alps....

Yes we've both been to Venice before (though not together) - and for me at the time (1989) I couldn't really afford to be there. So this time I don't want to stay at the youth hostel and eat in their cafe. I want to have a view over a canal and go in a gondola and eat in a restaurant with a view LOL . I've always thought it would be quite romantic to be there with your partner!

@Cyn - yup the wrong side of the road - same as you Americans :-)

The road from Kotor to Cetinje is quite something, too. I wouldn't want to drive it; it's hard to enjoy the view when you have to keep your eyes right on the road.

It look as if you'll be passing fairly near Ulcinj on your way to Kotor. That's another place I visited for part of a day (from Podgorica) and found interesting. It has a sort of Turkish vibe. However, it might not be all that different from the places you will have just visited, since you'll be arriving from Albania.

I'd shift 1 night from Kotor (a really small town) to Sarajevo. There's a lot there.

Subotica to Novi Sad is short. These are not that far apart. You could probably walk from one to the other in 3 hours. It's 100 Km

Beograd is a great city, as yet not well discovered by tourists. The House of Flowers is the resting place of Tito. We were taken there on the "free tour" of Beograd. Skadarska Street is "restaurant row". We stayed in Hotel Moskva - $140/night - great breakfast. Lots to see there.

When you go to Mostar, make sure to get to Pocitelj - it's a stone village, and very picteuresqe

Hi Lissie, you can take a direct train from Budapest-Keleti to Kelebia, Hungary (3h 30m), but only one train service runs between Budapest and Belgrade per day. According to Seat 61: https://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Belgrade.htm. The track is being upgraded to reduce the time it takes between Budapest and Belgrade. Hopefully this’ll be completed by the time you go.
As of now you can fly non-stop from Belgrade to Skopje on AirSerbia for $86. The overnight train departs at 6:35 PM arriving the next morning at 4:25 AM. You can take a train (4h 30m) or bus (3h 45m) to Ohrid, but the bus is faster according to https://www.rome2rio.com/s/Skopje/Ohrid.
Instead of going to Tirana from Ohrid, consider going to Berat first and then to Tirana so you don’t have to back track: https://www.kathmanduandbeyond.com/travel-lake-ohrid-macedonia-berat-albania/ / https://www.albaniatourguide.com/how-to-get-from-tirana-to-berat/.
It’s a 6h bus ride from Tirana to Kotor, 2h 30m from Kotor to Dubrovnik and 2h 30m from Dubrovnik to Mostar. To get to Sarajevo from Mostar, take the scenic train: https://www.seat61.com/trains-and-routes/sarajevo-to-mostar-by-train.htm.
There’s a bus from Sarajevo to Split (6h 45m), you can also fly non-stop from Sarajevo to Zagreb for $107. Since you’re going to Dubrovnik, I would skip Split.
From Zagreb you can take a direct train to Ljubljana (2h 45m) and a 1h bus ride from Ljubljana to Lake Bled. I would focus on Lake Bled before exploring the Julian Alps. You’ll need to connect twice from Ljubljana to Venice taking a total of 6h 45m.

Traveling from Llubljana to Venice would be much faster by road than by train. Suggest you look into "GoOpti." When I did this trip in 2017, I was picked up from my Llub hotel by a guy driving a comfortable van, and was at the Venice airport exactly 3 hours later (which included a 15" rest stop). The GoOpti cars and vans from Llubljana to Venice usually stop at both the airport and at the piazza on the islands from which you can then take a vaporetto to your Venice destination.

Llissie, your itinerary sounds wonderful. We were in Venice, Slovenia, & Croatia in 2018. In 2019 we visited Central Europe. You’ve picked some of our favorite places! I would also recommend GoOpti for a transfer from Ljubljana to Venice. We did an opposite transfer from Piazzalle Roma to Ljubljana. We shared a ride with another couple and the driver picked them up at the airport. The van was comfortable and the driver was right on time. It was less than 3 hrs, that included a 15 min. convenience break. GoOpti.com

As a side note: Ljubljana was our favorite new city. Our favorite restaurant was Julija. We ate their twice. Our apartment by the River was 5 mins away.

There are many places on your list I do not know about so I can't say which to cut. Did you consider getting to Plitvice National Park in Croatia? That is one place I would put on a do not miss list. Stay overnight so you can beat the morning tour crowd in the park.

LIssie, I hope you'll do a trip report for us on your return, covering at least the more obscure destinations you plan to hit. We just don't have many people who can tell us about places like Albania. That's a place I hope to visit, but at age 69 I can't be sure how many active-traveling years I have left, and there are many places (even just in Europe) I haven't yet seen.

@MaryPat - we come from the land of pretty lakes (NZ) - and we have a number on this trip - that's why I'm leaning towards the Julian Alps - but who knows...

@maldinuu - shared vans can be handy - but I still prefer trains
@Janis Yes Slovenia looks amazing - it wasn't even a country I could have put on a map before I started researching

@MikeS - yes I have Pitvice on my maybe list - I left it on this list because I felt we may have seen quite a lot of lakes by then (I also come from NZ - I have high standards for lakes - while I'm easily impressed by Medieval anything LOL)

@acaven - my partner is 69 so I'm not showing him your comment LOL. I don't see somewhere like Albania any harder to travlel to than say France. Your money goes further - so if the long distance buses are bad- you can afford a taxi. I usually keep the budget the same and live like a Queen in less expensive countries!

Yes I'll definitely do a trip report. I would say that this is a plan but I'm unlikely to book anything in advance except for flights and a few hotels which are next to those flights. The rest of it will be done a day or 2 before hand -so the reality will be different from the plan.

I must say if the cruise that we have booked to get us to Europe doesn't happen then I can see us just adding more time in Europe at the start of this trip LOL

I've done Ukraine (as well as Romania and Bulgaria); I think Albania would be a bit tougher--perhaps only because I studied Russian in college and can still read Cyrillic if I have to. I found communication in Ukraine sometimes challenging. I actually had to be rescued by an English-speaking Ukrainian when I was trying to get information about bus or train tickets in one of the less-visited Ukrainian cities; that has never happened to me before, because I am a practiced user of charades. On another occasion I figured the situation out only because I caught the Ukrainian word for "other" and realized the city had two bus stations and I was at the wrong one. I enjoy that kind of experience (will I or won't I make it to my next hotel on the expected night?), but it takes extra time to accomplish things that would be relatively quick in western Europe. It's helpful to be on a loose schedule when you can't be sure of a bus schedule until you see it posted on the wall of the departure bus station--and even then there's the issue of whether you can read the footnotes.

Concerning Plitvice: I'm not a big proponent of looking at a lot of pictures before a trip; I like to be surprised. But in your case, it might be worthwhile. I think Plitvice is a lovely place (outside day-tripping hours), but if you have lake areas like it in NZ, there's no reason not to skip it, especially since it's off the direct routes between your other stops. There's an attractive gorge in Slovenia (Vintgar), accessible on a day-trip from Ljubljana. I was glad to see it, but for some folks on shorter visits, who may have been to similar places in the US (as I have in NC and NY), it might not be the best use of limited European-vacation time.

My last proper international trip ie not a cruise was 3 weeks in Western Sichuan, China. I speak no Chinese and recognize only a handful of characters (mainly entry and exit)- and translation apps are pretty rubbish for Chinese. My Tibetean is worse. It was good to get back into full blown charades LOL. I had to have the odd note written out for me!

I do know some cyrllic characters - we tried learning some basic Russian for a Central Asian trip which never happened because my partner got ill in China. Will study up basic Russian again and particularly the characters - being illiterate is the worst when dealing with public transport!

I agree I avoid over-studying videos and images of a location - old school - I don't want to google street view somewhere I want the surprise!

I am giving another shout out to Plitvice Lakes!!! It was the highlight of our tour. Our tour group stayed next to the Park the night before and hiked first thing in the am to avoid the day trippers. Our guide also recommended to start the hike at the upper level. Many day trippers start at the lower end. Others on this forum recommend a late afternoon hike to avoid the crowds. Like mentioned up thread this would be convenient on your route. As far as online photos, they do not capture the true beauty and natural wonder of Plitvice! As a side note: I have been to your beautiful island country and agree, you have gorgeous scenery! I believe you would enjoy this unique stop.

If you are going to Split, make sure you visit Trogir, a small town on the coast north of Split. It is worth spending a day there.

And to get to Trogir, you can take a fun relaxing boat ride from Split. The boat trip is great. You land on the wharf, and the part of town immediately facing the water is a row of restaurants. We stopped in one, and had a lunch of a seafood platter for 2. Not cheap, but it would have been 2x that in most places.

Yes I had Togir on the list - just not as an overnight LOL

I have discounted Plitvice Lakes! I'm thinking I'd need to hire a car? Or is there decent public transport?

There's bus service from Split, I'm almost sure. There is definitely service to Zagreb. Pre-pandemic the latter was relatively frequent. The story about the lakes is that you need to spend the night there so you can do your walking late in the afternoon on your arrival day (if there's still decent light) or early the next morning. Trying to see the park during day-tripping hours is a recipe for disappointment. A few years ago (after my 2015 trip) they started selling advance tickets on line. They say you aren't guaranteed to get in if you just show up. I don't know that they've ever turned anyone away, but I do know my 2015 experience was not great--as in a solid mass of humanity on the walkways, most of which don't have any sort of railings, so if one person had fallen, a lot of us would have been in the water. Fortunately, that was my third trip to the park, and I know how lovely it can be.