Asking for help with Paris-Germany family trip

I can't offer much help on Paris, but I think Munich and the surrounding area would tick off a lot of your boxes. Bavaria was at the heart of the Nazi movement, and if your kids are interested in WWII they would be better served by going there than Amsterdam. Dachau is on the outskirts of town, and Nürnberg is less than two hours away by train. I was last there (eek!) over ten years ago, but my friend and I visited the Documentation Center and Nazi Rally Grounds and both were phenomenal. We were only in the city one night (our hostel was over-run by a lot of loud Aussies, so we ducked out early), but from what we saw of the city, it would be a great place to explore. If you are keen to do three cities, I would suggest Paris--Munich--Nürnberg. From Munich you're also very close to Salzburg and the Eagle's Nest, which I haven't been to so I can't speak directly to that. Salzburg was a disappointment both times I visited, but Hallstatt was glorious. You could throw that in the mix as a break from the big cities. The Sound of Music Tour is also a great way to see the region if you're on limited time. And, when you need a break from Nazis, Munich has some great art museums and the Wittelsbach palace in town, and is close to the castles in Füssen (including Neuschwanstein).

I would suggest an overnight to Normandy and the D day beaches from Paris. You can also do it as a day trip. There are many organized tours . We did one thru the museum of Peace at Caen . Excellent. early morning train to Caen where they picked us up. Morning at the very informative museum and then an excellent escorted tours to the beaches and the American Cemetery. We chose to overnight in Bayeaux, so they dropped us at the Hotel Churchill. Bayeaux is a lovely small town with charming market, cathedral, the Bayeaux tapestry and an excellent D day museum. then we took an evening train back to Paris. Others went directly back to paris. We stayed at an apartment in paris, so we left our stuff there and just took one smal overnight bag with us.
Think this would be a lovely addition to our tour.

Thanks Allison-- I am glad to hear that Munich (and Bavaria) will have lots of WW2 things to do-I really do need to do more reading. I am not set on anything other than Paris and somewhere in Germany. I am ok without Amsterdam, and maybe it is too much to do all 3. The sound of music thing would be great too-my daughter and I would love it!
Thanks Diane-we were definitely going to try for a day trip to Normandy. Bayeaux sounds charming, i will check it out!

Sounds very doable. 5 nights in Paris, you can see about a day tour to Normandy beaches for the kids WW II fix. From there, I can think of two possible intermediate stops on the way to Munich.

Strasbourg is only about 1 hour and 45 to 55 minutes on TGV. It is a French city with a Germanic culture. Some good day trips to Colmar or Selestat. Very nice restored castle outside of Selestat called Haut Koenigsbourg.

The other option would be town on the Rhine river in the gorge area, like Oberwesel or Boppard. More castles and a cruise on the river past the Lorelei. This would be about 4 hours and 15 minutes from Paris by train.

Both of these are 4 to 5 hours to Munich. Munich you have the Dachau concentration camp memorial, day trip to Neuschwanstein "modern" castle.

Thank you Sam! I have friends who just went to Colmar and it looked very nice in their photos. I will try to work out the logistics of travel from Paris to Munich via those options. I like the idea of Strasbourg, but the kids might enjoy the Rhine. We all love castles :)

Does anyone have thoughts on Luxembourg City or Stuttgart as stops on the way to Munich? Just looking at a map and they're both 'on the way'. I think Porsche and Mercedes have HQ in Stuttgart, which would appeal to my other half. I'll admit I know almost nothing of Luxembourg.

I was checking for some one who scheduled an itinerary that included Luxembourg City, then they were stunned by the cost of hotels in the city. I checked, and I too was awed. I did not see anything special going on in town, but at those prices, I could stay in a 5-star in Paris and save money. So go to booking.com and check out what prices look like for your time of travel.

The morning TGV does go to Colmar after stopping in Strasbourg, and it is worth staying there. Back to WW II, there is a museum in the next town, Turckheim dedicated to a large battle there called the Colmar Pocket. There is a plaque on the church in the nearby town of Kaysersberg thanking the American 36 Infantry for liberating the town in December 1944. Interesting that another plaque memorial lists all of the town citizens who died in combat in both wars. All but one died serving in the German Army. During WW I, it was part of Germany, and WW II, they were all drafted in 1940 and sent to the Ost Front.

Stuttgart does have both a Mercedes and a Porsche museum.

I stayed in Colmar for a few days this summer. (I had visited Strasbourg on an earlier trip.) Colmar is lovely and much smaller. I suspect lodging costs may be significantly lower in Colmar; it's worth checking.

Thank you Sam (again) and acraven. I'll have to investigate the lodging options, and I appreciate the WW2 suggestions. So helpful!

We were just in Munich, we did the WWII/Nazi time tour. Very interesting. Yes to Dachau - at the age of your children, a camp will be an adult and serious visit that they will remember for their life. I was there when I was 8, in 1960. I think a WWII theme for the whole trip is an excellent idea - a day trip to the Normandy area also good. The US cemetary is again very interesting and there are many new museums there. I have seen pictures of German cemetaries and they are very different than US military cemetaries. In Munich, your children would also enjoy the Residence Museum. To prepare, a history of WWII might be good.

Thank you Paul-both my kids have learned about WW2 in school-which explains partly why they are both interested in WW2 sights--and I agree that a themed trip will be very interesting and educational. We will definitely try to learn as much as we can before the trip. I am a little nervous about taking them to a former concentration camp but I think it will be a powerful and important thing to do. (I am also nervous for myself, I feel like it will be a hard place to be.)
I have heard that day trips to Normandy from Paris can be rough due to traveling time but I will look into it. We had an all day tour of Tuscany from Florence and it was along day but we enjoyed it, so I know we can handle an all-day tour. Thanks!

"The area I am most interested in is Bavaria, though it is still early in my research and I am open to other places... it seems Munich is maybe too far... The kids are very into WW2."

Gotta say, I really like Sam's suggestions.

Strasbourg is very easy and quick from Paris - and it's the gateway to the Black Forest, only slightly further. Bavaria's not the only place in Germany with adorable towns and villages. Check these out...

Schiltach:
https://www.orte-bw.de/grafik/uploads/12503_2010_1040.JPG
http://images.fotocommunity.de/bilder/baden-wuerttemberg/schwarzwald/fachwerk-in-schiltach-schwarzwald-9f5a293c-e763-4134-86c2-a0f221859dc0.jpg
Gengenbach:
http://www.reiseerlebnisfuehrer.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Gengenbach-Engelgasse.jpg
http://www.stadthotel-gengenbach.de/files/gengenbach-innenstadt.jpg
Hornberg:
http://www.hornberg.de/pb/site/Hornberg/get/426439/1b_Schwarzwald_Hornberg.jpg
Gutach and the Vogtsbauernhof open-air museum:
http://www.bensbauernhof.com/gutachimschwarzwald.html

You can visit the Natzwiler-Struthof concentration camp/memorial site, in between Colmar and Strasbourg:
http://www.dark-tourism.com/index.php/15-countries/individual-chapters/182-natzweiler-struthof
https://i0.wp.com/BlogKapoue.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/carte-sites-pass-alsace.jpg?resize=500%2C700

The Middle Rhine Valley is a very scenic and historic spot with dozens of castles - and a UNESCO World Heritage site:
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1066
https://www.uli-franke.de/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/20140622_144833-Burg-Rheinstein.jpg

Many fine old-world villages here too:

Bacharach: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Bacharach_BW_9.JPG
Braubach: https://www.romantischer-rhein.de/uploads/pics/Altstadt_02.jpg

Nearby you can find numerous opportunities to explore WW II sites.

In the Rhine Valley north of Koblenz: The "Bridge at Remagen" museum: http://www.bruecke-remagen.de/index_en.htm
South of the Rhine Valley near Worms: http://www.ns-dokuzentrum-rlp.de/index.php?id=107&L=1

Elsewhere: http://www.tracesofwar.com/themes/4738/The-Westwall.htm

(The site in Besseringen, built with walls 1.5 meters thick, is southwest of the Rhine Valley and detailed here: http://bunkersite.com/locations/germany/saarland/bwerk-1.php )

So yeah, given your interests and your limited time, I think it would be a wise choice not to travel all the way to Munich/Bavaria.

I do not have Russ's level of knowledge about Germany, but from a geographical standpoint I really, really support his post. Germany has many gorgeous towns and historical sights. With only 5 or 6 days, I hate to see you spend so much time traveling to and from Munich. Eastern Germany has many fabulous destinations (Berlin among them); that area is worth a lot more time on a separate trip.

Check out the Unterlinden Museum in Colmar. It has an acknowledged masterpiece, the Isenheim Altarpiece, and a strong collection otherwise.

Thank you Russ-I will certainly consider this-you have given me much to ponder. That is why I enjoy this forum so much. I do want to optimize our sightseeing and reduce travel as much as possible so I will take a look at some Germany destinations closer to Paris/France.

Just got back from a 10 day trip to France this past Labor Day week ... flew into Zurich, train to Strasbourg, spent a few days in that region (Colmar, Haut Koenigsbourg castle, Fiddler's Festival in Ribeauville), train to Caen (via Paris), Normandy beaches and Mount St Michel, then back to Paris for a few days before returning hone ... plus have been to the Bavaria region three times in my travels. Here's an itinerary to consider:

• Fly into Paris and visit the city for a few days hitting the usual major sights (Versailles would be a good side trip but takes a full day).
• Early train to Caen, gets you there in 2 hours ... rent a car and visit half the beaches the first day .. overnight in Arromanches (Port Winston) and other half the next day ... return to Caen and overnight.
• Early train back to Paris and continue on to Strasbourg (we did the Strasbourg to Caen direction and it took about 6 hours, with a 2 hour layover in Paris since you have to switch train stations (St Lazare and Paris Nord) which was plenty of time.
• You'll need a car if you want to visit that region for a few days, or just stay in Strasbourg then catch a train to Colmar.
• Early train to Zurich (you will need to change at Basel which requires another switching stations but they are next to each other ... but give yourself a good 20 minutes so you are not hurried).
• Optional day in Zurich ... if you spend a day there you must see Marc Chagall's 5 stained glass windows at the Fraumünster church) ... you could easily see the major sights in the day (and the obligatory stop at Café Sprüngli) ... or you can continue on to Munich.
• Munich is easily 2 days to see the major sights ... Neuschwanstein and Berchtesgaden (Eagles Nest) are both day trips, Nuremberg is a little over an hour away by high-speed train but with so much to see there would make for a really long day trip.

As you can see, we are big fans of the early trains so we get the most out of the day in the new city ... my nightlife years are long behind me so early to bed helps getting up for the early train ... or you can always nap on the train, but you miss the scenery.

All-in-all, about 11-12 days (with good planning) ... depending on how many side trips you take and the optional day in Zurich.

Have a great trip!

I like the idea of going to Normandy for WWII interest and I think that going to Bastogne then down to Remagen would be good. Then doing the middle Rhine and leaving from Frankfurt. In all my trips to Germany I have never felt the need for Nazi history. Maybe it is because a family friend was a liberator of Dachau and would never exhibit the horrific photos he took and seeing a high school classmate's father's 'liberated' silverware from the Eagle's nest.

Check out a web site named thirdreichruins.com. Many, many photos of locations during WWII and photos of the same location more recently.

In terms of the camps, we were in Mauthausen in 2011. It was quite moving, but not grizzly or disgusting. There are no human remains there. There were posters and exhibits about the situation. In 1959, when I was 8, i seem to remember a bit of a grittier experience. All German children go at least once to a camp. This is now a law I believe country-wide. For your children, it will be important to do it with an educational approach. I was not scared or damaged by the visit, and I was 8. Your children are stronger than you think as a parent.

Day
1. Arrive Munich (4)
2. Munich
3. Day to Neuschwanstein
4. Day to Bavarian Alps
5. Train to Rhine/Bacharach (3)
6. Rhine Cruise
7. Day to Cologne
8. Train via Mosel & Trier to Paris (5)
9. Paris
10. Paris
11. Paris
12. Paris
13. Depart Paris

For that part of our Big Trip in 2014, we did a 5 night Salzburg-Garmisch-Munich loop by rental car, then did ICE-TGV train to Paris as a travel day and 4 nights in Paris. We were happy with the general pace of that kind of thing, and high speed rail is different enough for us that the train trip was a lot of fun rather than being a 'wasted' vacation day. (Course now I need to figure out a way to try out a Japanese bullet train as a comparison to the TGV) I do think that part of Germany really does offer a good blend of WW2 stuff and the outdoors; hard to top the Alps.

While it's good to have a theme, don't overschedule and have a rough plan B if people seem to be burning out on the War theme. It was a very intense time in global history.

Paris is a wonderful place just to wander the neighborhoods; plan on some time to just absorb the atmosphere. Do visit the Tomb of the Unknown solider at the Arc de Triomphe. It's WW1, but there's something about that and then looking out over a great city that so many fought to try to preserve that was just a, well, moment for me. Merci, those who served and died for it.

The French hotel conglomerate Accor has a 'Aparthotel Adagio' brand similar to a Residence Inn that will get you the features of an apartment with the front desk of a hotel. Some of their Paris properties have one bedroom options that sleep four- two in the bedroom and two on a pull out sofa bed. And then go get your groceries at a neighborhood bakery, greengrocer, and the Carrefour Express that has all kinds of amazing food in a space the size of a typical American living room.

Wow! Thank you everyone. I am truly overwhelmed by your generosity and helpful suggestions.

David-this looks fun-I'm going to really consider this as I have been impressed with your itineraries before!
Day
1. Arrive Munich (4)
2. Munich
3. Day to Neuschwanstein
4. Day to Bavarian Alps
5. Train to Rhine/Bacharach (3)
6. Rhine Cruise
7. Day to Cologne
8. Train via Mosel & Trier to Paris (5)
9. Paris
10. Paris
11. Paris
12. Paris
13. Depart Paris

Thank everyone!

We just returned from Munich in June with my 2 daughters (14 & 11).

I'd suggest instead of Neuschwanstein Castle to consider Herrenchiemsee. It's a palace replicated after Versailles on its own island. The grounds are pretty and the ferry ride was a nice extra. It was a pleasant daytrip done with less "watching the clock", IMHO. When we considered Neuschwanstein after researching I felt we were going to be rushed all for a long day trip & a 30 minute tour. Herrenchiemsee to us was a good alternative leisurely day trip.

For an Alpine daytrip, I'd suggest Mittenwald. Pleasant little town to explore and a cable car ride up to the top of Karwendel, where you can hike the picturesque rim. Again an easy train ride from Munich.

We cruised the Rhine in June taking the KD Line from Bingen to St. Goar. My husband & I did the cruise Sept. 2016 again starting in Bingen but stayed on til Boppard. There are a few castles after St Goar but with kids they were done cruising by the time we got to St Goar. You can explore Rheinfels Castle but they were working on it in June and the underground tunnels were not available to the general public then, which disappointed my girls.

Enjoy your travel planning!

Paul stated that all German children must visit a Concentration camp, that it was a law. This is a misconception and not true at all. I think Rick used to state this in his books. Where he got this idea from is anyone's guess. Children are not required, it is not part of the school curriculum and they would only go there if their class was studying this. Will you see school kids here? Yes, but as part of further studies.

If it was me, I would certainly try to spend at least 2 days in Bayeux to visit Normandy. Those one day tours from Paris do not do this area justice.

If you are in the Frankfurt area, you could plan on visiting the Jewish Holocaust Memorial Wall here. It has the names of the 12,000 Frankfurt Jews who were killed in the Shoa, including Anne Frank, her sister Margot, and their mother Edith. There are other memorials here too, if that is of interest and if you will be here for at least a day.

Hi Ferrin.
Thanks for the nice compliment, always appreciated. I’m glad you like the framework I provided, it does offer scope for personal changes.

Some notes...
1) Bingen/Bacharach/Boppard/St Goar are frequent suggestions for a stop on the Rhine.
2) Koblenz, however, offers the best train connections, especially if you are considering a day trip to Cologne and heading to Paris via the scenic Mosel Valley with a stop in historic Trier.
3) Others on here may advise on possible luggage storage in Trier.

Consider train timings similar to these perhaps ...

ICE 518
Dep 11:28 MUENCHEN HBF (Germany)
Arr 14:28 MANNHEIM HBF (Germany)
EC 8
Dep 14:39 MANNHEIM HBF (Germany)
Arr 16:11 KOBLENZ HBF (Germany)

RE 4106
Dep 09:06 KOBLENZ HBF (Germany)
Arr 10:30 TRIER HBF (Germany)

RE 5116
Dep 15:37 TRIER HBF (Germany)
Arr 16:29 LUXEMBOURG (Luxembourg)
TGV 2881
Dep 17:10 LUXEMBOURG (Luxembourg)
Arr 19:20 PARIS EST (France)