Are we biting off more than we can chew?

I would choose different destinations for your very first trip to Europe. Having just 9 nights it would be London and Paris.

It is a pretty rushed trip and I personally would only pick two or three destinations in this time frame. That being said, it is certainly doable. One night is plenty for Hallstatt and Fussen, in my opinion; even though I don't like single night stops. I would add to one of the other locations and take a night from each of those stops.

Also, I think that the most important lesson that I learned on my first trip is to be flexible. When jet lag hits, you may not want to move to the next town.

There really is no overnight train to Frankfurt, from Wengen it is just a little over 6 hours. The Euronight train that plies this route gets to Frankfurt at 51 past midnight, hardly an overnight train. So take something at 5 pm and get to Frankfurt at 11:15 pm.

A lot of traveling, but hardly the worst I've seen. If there is nothing special in Luzern you want to see that will take some time, book a 4 hour stop over in Luzern on the way to Wengen. You can leave Fuessen at 6 am and get to Wengen at 7:51 pm. That is one less hotel check-in, check-out cycle.

You could also stay in Salzburg for 3 nights and go to Hallstatt as a day trip.

Hallstatt is a day trip from Salzburg, and not a very long one! Personally I wouldn't stay in either but use one of the pretty villages in between.

2 nights Fussen but only 1 in Luzern?? And then on to Wengen. Presumably you don't want to see Luzern and this is an enforced stop because of train schedules?

Because of altitude Wengen can be caught in cloud during wet weather.

Overnight train to Frankfurt. There isn't one. There is a night train from Switzerland (Zurich or Basel) to Hamburg which calls at Frankfurt just before 1AM, that's hardly overnight - what next? Sleep on station??

I'm guessing Day 10 is fly home from Frankfurt.
The big question is Day 0 - how do you get to Night 1?

To cover roughly the same area with less hassle and more flexiblity:
Nights 1-3 Wolfgangsee area, eg St Gilgen
Nights 4-5 Fussen - day 6 nice transfer via Lindau and cruise across Bodensee (Lake Constance)
Nights 6-8 Interlaken (incl. excursion to Wengen if fine, plenty alternatives if not)
Night 9 Frankfurt (you can leave Interlaken at 6PM and be asleep in a Frankfurt city centre hotel before midnight!)

This is a rushed trip with too many stops and places that would not be on most European travelers bucket list. You'll spend much time in transit, have little time to savor the places you'll land. I guess you have your flights and that won't change, but keep in mind that flights within Europe are cheap and frequent. You could still change this and wind up in Frankfurt for your flight. In 9 nights (7-8 days) three stops is plenty, two even better. Others who know this region better might have more explicit suggestions.

I would stay 3 nights in Salzburg, 3 in Munchen and 3 in Frankfurt. 9 days is too little to do 6 stops. Even 2 countries is too much. Your itinerary has you traveling on 6 of 9 days. You will not get much sightseeing done. As others have noted, Hallstatt (a town of maybe 1000 persons) is a short day trip from Salzburg - we used Bob's tours.

What new travelers don't understand is how complex each city is and how much there is to see. In Salzburg, there is the old town, the castle, and the interesting areas across the river. There is a beer garden on the east end of town up the hill - definite stop one night. There are wonderful little bars. We went to a very nice concert on the south side of the river. Not expensive. With a day trip to Hallstatt, Salzburg is an easy 3 days. There are other things to do that we did not do in our three days - there are salt mines, day trips, etc. Each city in Europe with 250,000+ has 3-4 days of attractions minimum.

The other perspective is I WILL BE BACK. You did some stuff on this trip. Next trip, other stuff. We've been to Europe 10 times since 1981, maybe more. Lots of stuff still to see.

Thanks everyone. I had a feeling it was a bit rushed, and I appreciate the advice of seasoned travelers.

The drawing force behind our visit is to see the Alps. Mountains and lakes are home for me. We'll still see plenty of both even if we consolidate the journey to a couple of cities.

You're flying in to Salzburg? Its not just the cost, its the time you're eating up to get there.

Every time you change locations you are using up 1/2 to a whole day just in transit and getting to and from train station, etc. So you will actually have zero time in Salzburg, Lucerne and Frankfurt. Not a vacation - a tour of train stations and hotels. Please reconsider. I would drop Hallstatt and Füssen.

Point taken Stan! We aren't there to see train stations. That said, I'm far more interested in hiking around Salzburg than spending time in the city. I take it Salzburg will still be a great base for day trips to the countryside?

It would help to know if you've already purchaed flights, and whether you're set on flying inbound to Salzburg and outbound from Frankfurt? Your profile doesn't indicate your location - where are you flying from? Does the 9 days include your two flight days?

I agree with the others that you've got too many stops on this very short Itinerary. You could also skip a stay in Hallstatt and just see it as a day trip from Salzburg (have a look at Bob's Special Tours to see if that would work for you). If your main focus is to "hike in the Alps", you might consider skipping Füssen this time. If you like hiking in the Alps, you might also consider staying in Lauterbrunnen rather than in Wengen as that's a good central location for accessing hiking on both sides of the valley.

As this is your first trip to Europe, you might find it helpful to read Europe Through The Back Door prior to your trip, as that provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe and the differences you'll encounter there. After that use the appropriate guidebooks for the areas you'll be visiting to plan in more detail. You should be able to find copies of the books at your local Library or local book shops. This will give you an idea on the guidebook choices - https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/guidebooks (many of these are also available as E-books in several formats, if that would be more convenient).

Thanks for the info Ken, very helpful.

Yeah, I purchased flights a year ago because they were really cheap. We are flying in from NYC. The total trip is actually 11 days with two days of travel to and from NYC.

Looking at the itinerary now, I see how we are splitting our time within each country. It makes more sense, as you and others have wisely pointed out, to stay at one location in Austria, one location in Switzerland, possibly stop in Fussen, and the very last night in Frankfurt before our early morning flight.

Lauterbrunnen was our first choice..the photos reminded me a little of my trips to Yosemite. Access would be important, and it's not far from some of the places we want to go. Would you recommend Interlaken as a good base, as mentioned in a previous post?

Our draw to Lucerne was mainly to see Mt. Pilatus. I take it a day trip to Lauterbrunnen is completely feasible from there as well?

My new penciled in itinerary goes something like this:
Nights 1-3 Salzburg or one of the towns on Wolfgansee..can't decide
Nights 4-5 Fussen (I'd like to see the castles)
Nights 6-8 Lucerne or Interlaken
Night 9 Frankfurt

The problem with day tripping to the Lauterbrunnen Valley from Luzern - and yes, it is physically possible - is that it takes about 2 hours each way on the hourly train and the best time to see the array of mountains ( it isn't just the big three, Monch, Jungfrau and Eiger, there are dozens in the immediate area) and possibly head up one or more is the morning. By the time you get to Lauterbrunnen and then up the hill or hills the weather may well be obscuring the summits and ruining the views.

I regularly return to the Lauterbrunnen Valley and although I have stayed on various years very close to Luzern I've never been up Pilatus.

You don't really see the mountains up close from Luzern, even from the bases of their mountains such as Pilatus; when in the Lauterbrunnen Valley, particularly if you are up higher on the sides of the valley in Wengen or Mürren where the views are simply exceptional. In Mürren you really feel that you can just reach out and touch the mountains - unlike anywhere else I have ever been.

I think it boils down to - - do you want to go up one mountain at the expense of a whole gaggle of beautiful mountains or the other way around. I agree that the advertising does make going in a revolving gondola sound pretty cool, but to a degree I think it is advertising.

You pays your money and takes your choice as far as I can see. Not easy to do both......

Would you recommend Interlaken as a good base

No.

Although I stayed in Interlaken for - I think - 4 or 5 of the visits I have made, including one when I wanted to use my pass to visit all sorts of parts of Switzerland starting with the 5:30 am train each day for a week (I never did that again), when you are in Interlaken you are between the lakes - hence the name - and not in the mountains. If your purpose is to be in the Alps, be in the Alps.

My new penciled in itinerary goes something like this:
Nights 1-3 Salzburg or one of the towns on Wolfgansee..can't decide
Nights 4-5 Fussen (I'd like to see the castles)
Nights 6-8 Lucerne or Interlaken
Night 9 Frankfurt

Great advice from Nigel (as usual) and others. The above is better but I would reinforce if you want mountains, skip Luzern and Interlaken and go to the Lauterbrunnen Valley. We prefer Lauterbrunnen, but Muerren or Wengen are great. 3 nights minimum.

You will be planning your next trip by Day 4.

ronfer46 - "Without meaning to try and beat you up yousetmeupbrutus, you set yourself up when you booked your flights BEFORE figuring out where you wanted to go."

Haha, nicely done! My new user name will be Isetmyselfup.

Nigel and Laurel - Thanks! I am settled on staying in Lauterbrunnen Valley for at least 3 nights. If we get to Pilatus, great. If not, we are surrounded by beauty either way.

isetmyselfup,

As the others have mentioned, it would have been prudent to have used open jaw flights from airports close to your first and last destinations. However, if you have flights already booked, you'll have to make the best of it. Would it be possible to change your outbound flight to Zürich instead of Frankfurt? Having to return to a distant airport for the flight home has a cost in both time and money, and reduces sightseeing time (which is important with very short Itineraries).

When planning transportation, it's important to know how much time it will take to get from one destination to another. Have you been using the Bahn.de website or others to figure that out?

"Our draw to Lucerne was mainly to see Mt. Pilatus. I take it a day trip to Lauterbrunnen is completely feasible from there as well?"

Yes, it's absolutely possible to make a day trip to Mt. Pilatus from Lucerne, it's very easy. You might consider taking the boat from Lucerne to Alphnachstad, where you'll connect with the Pilatusbahn Funicular (an incredible engineering feat considering when it was built). After touring Pilatus and having a fine hot meal, take the Cable Car down to Kriens and then the Bus back to Lucerne (the Bus trip is only about 15 mintues as I recall). If you'd rather not take the boat from Lucerne to Alphnachstad, you can also go by train. At times there can be long queues for the Pilatusbahn, so getting an early start would probably be a good idea.

There are two hotels on Pilatus for lunch. The Pilatus Kulm is more upscale and formal, so the bill will likely be higher. The Hotel Bellevue has a nice cafeteria and I found the food to be good.

Some years ago, in June, my family rented rooms in June in a ski chalet near Altenmarkt, just north of Salzburg. We thought we would drive to the city. Instead, we just stayed in the country, as there was much to do out there - go to a local castle where there was a falconry and falcon demonstration, go the Eisreisenweldt (ice caves), walk in a graveyard, etc. It was very inexpensive, and the children loved the farm animals in our farm.

For me, the Lauterbrunnen Valley is must-see Europe, (especially if you enjoy the mountains and hiking!). Mt. PIlatus is incredible, but you don't need to stay in Lucerne to visit (though Lucerne itself is a treat!). But, it's not exactly convenient to get from Salzburg to the Bernese Oberland to Frankfurt. (though I have done similar trips and enjoyed them....)

Given your points of arrival and departure, another idea is to focus on the Alps in Austria and Germany and save the Swiss Alps for another trip. You could then drop in to Munich and Rothenburg obT en route to Frankfurt.

Days 1-5: Salzburg: incl. day trips to Lake District/Hallstatt and Berchtesgaden (4 nights in Salzburg or neighboring locale)
[note there is a fun river-front bike ride from Salzburg to Schloss Hellbrunn and fun city hiking up to and around the Hohensalzburg Fortress]
Days 5-7: travel to southern Bavaria and Tirol: hiking (cross-border!), Zugspitze, Neuschwanstein castle, Oberammergau (3 nights in Fussen, Schwangau, Reutte, or Garmisch-Partenkirchen)
Days 8: travel Rothenburg ob der Tauber- stop off in Munich for part of the day en route [Rick's Munich walk is great!](1 night in Rothenburg)
Day 9: enjoy Rothenburg - late afternoon travel to Frankfurt (1 night in Frankfurt, before early flight)