Appreciate ALL help planning an itinerary!

shannon, assuming you are departing the US on the 17th and leaving Europe on the 31st. You will have 13 nights for your trip. You have included on your wish list either six cities in three countries or seven cities in four countries in thirteen nights and 14 days. That doesn't sound like much fun to me, does it to you?

It generally takes at least a half a day to change locations within the same country. With this itinerary you'll be well acquainted with train stations and airports but not so much your destinations. Daylight hours will be shorter that time of the year asl well for sight seeing.

You might want to consider narrowing down to maybe just Italy for your 3 cities there. Fly into Venice for 3 or 4 nights, train to Florence for 4 nights then train to Rome for 5 and fly home. Or Paris for 3 nights, fly to Venice for 3 nights, train to FLorence for 3, train to Rome for 4 nights and fly home.

If it were me (and it's not) I'd either stay in Italy or Italy plus one other city.

This link will help you estimate travel times required to get from one destination to another, this is important in itinerary planning: estimating travel time within Europe

Ron's right. A couple more things to consider:

You will need a day to recover from the flight over. The day you arrive you will be a zombie. The next day you will not be at 100% either.

If you're zooming from one city to another by train, and it's a trip of no ore than 2 or 3 hours, you can still do part of a day signtseeing. But if you're taking a flight or a long train trip, then that day is pretty much gone, sine you will spend almost all of it getting out of one place and then getting settled in to the next (it takes time to check out, get to the train/airport, wait for your train/flight, time in transit, time getting from the rail station/airpor to your hotel, checking in, freshening up, eaating, etc.).

I'd stick to Italy, and at most one other city (probably Barcelona, since it's not far from northern Italy, or maybe Paris, just because it's your first trip to Europe and it's Paris).

Also keep in mind that you will be traveling during the holiday period. That adds some charm in some places, but the weather will be wintery (difficult for sightseeing), some things will be closed or have reduced hours, and there will be a LOT of people traveling - not necessarily foreign tourists, but lots of people doing family/holiday traveling = massive crowds at airports/trains, higher fares, etc.

Hope that helps.

Take anyone's pronouncement of how you will feel upon arriving in Europe that first day with a grain of salt (even mine). David may be a zombie the day he arrives and not at 100% the next day, either, but I have never felt that way. On my first day, I stay busy and try to go to bed at as close to my usual time as I can manage. The next day I'm fine. Everyone reacts differently, so don't assume that you will have to "waste" the first day because of fatigue. Likewise, you may not be able to do it the way I do. Plan a few things to do that you could do just as easily the next day, and see how far you get.

Plus one other thing people haven't pointed out...it's Christmas and not much will be open late xmas eve, xmas day and possibly the day after.

I'd cut out Spain completely and possibly just foucs on Italy this trip. Perhapss add a hilltown or two. Trains would be the best way in Italy but if you added Paris, I'd do a flight with the limited time you have.

Thank you all so much for your advice and opinions. I am thinking you are probably right and we should narrow our trip down to two different countries so I think we'll focus on Italy and France. I'm also thinking it would probably be worth it to extend our trip by just a few days. So, here's an updated itinerary.

Depart Minneapolis, MN December 16th
December 17th arrive in Paris - 4 nights
December 21st train to either Marseilles or Nice - 2 nights
December 23rd train to Venice - 4 nights
December 27th train to Florence - 2 nights
December 29th train to Rome - 4 nights
January 2nd Fly home from Rome.

Does this seem like a better itinerary? I don't want to run ourselves ragged while out there but I also want to see alot. I know it's not possible to do both though! I obviously have alot more research to do and requested a bunch of books from my library last night but again - any suggestions are appreciated!

Thanks so much!
Shannon

That looks much more do-able and enjoyable. My only concern would be the dip to the south of France for two days. It is a fairly long train ride from there to Venice. It believe it is in the 8- 10 hour range depending on where you start from and if you need to wait for a connection. You might be better served to add a night to Paris and Rome and fly from Paris to Venice on one of the budget European carriers.

Hi Shannon, You can access the Deutsch Bahn site through Rick's "Favorite Links" at the top of this page. This is the best site for rail times, duration, etc in Europe (point-to-point cost you'll need to go to the country you're traveling to/from). You'll find for example that the trains from Nice Ville to Venezia S. Lucia take about 8 hours. In 2005 we decided to try Ryan Air from Treviso (airport an hour from Venice) to Beauvais (airport an hour from Paris). We got about 2 hours more sleep in the morning but arrived at the hotel in Paris about an hour earlier than if we'd taken the train. With all the hassles of the connections (and baggage restrictions) decided it would have been more relaxing to take the train!
In 2007 we wanted to go from Aix en Provence to Florence but considering the duration of the trains, decided to stop off in Monterosso for 2 nights just to break up the train travel. (Monterosso was as lovely as always. Might not be a good choice in December though.)
I use the Deutsch Bahn sight to figure out even which direction I want spend my vacation. Do I want to fly into Rome and out of Paris or into Paris and out of Venice? or Pisa or, or????
"Favorite Links" also has the Sky Scanner site to figure out flight within Europe...whichbudget.com is another flight search.
Hope I haven't overwhelmed you!

Agree that your updated itinerary is do-able, but that the train ride from Nice to Venice is really long. Look into a flight on a European discount airline instead. I dont' know whether they fly from Nice to Venice, but I know that Vueling and EasyJet both fly from Paris to Venice. (We flew Vueling from Paris to Venice just last month). And as the previous poster indicated, don't take RyanAir for that leg -- their airports are often far out of town, requiring extra time.

P.S. Since you'll be changing cities frequently, make sure to pack light! My wife and I limited ourselves to one carry-on sized backpack each, and we made it work just fine for a similar 2-week itineary. (However, we were there in summer, so we could get by with lighter-weight clothing).

Silk undies will be your friend for a winter trip. They pack down to nothing, let you layer and stay warm, dry quickly when washed in a hotel sink, and keep your outer tops and bottoms cleaner and fresher, so you may not need to wash those during your trip. (And, because winter tops tend to be heavy, they don't dry out very quickly--trust me, I know from sad experience.)

Shannon,

A few thoughts on your most recent Itinerary. Given the short duration of your trip and also the time of year, I'd recommend dropping Nice and Marseille. I'm not sure either will be "attractive stops" at that time of the year, and the travel time (esp. by train) is quite long. Even travel by budget airlines is going to use the better part of a day (consider that many locals may be travelling for Christmas also).

One alternative would be to "split up" the trip to France with a stop in Switzerland for two nights. Some of the Christmas markets are incredible, and you might enjoy the "Christmas ambience". More importantly, the rail journey will be much shorter (esp. if using the TGV).

Be sure to allow for adequate travel times between cities, and review the "Rail Skills" section in Europe Through The Back Door so you're up to speed on the protocols about reservations, validating tickets, etc. (a good idea, since this is your first trip).

Hopefully some of the books you requested from your Libary are Rick's Guidebooks, as they contain a wealth of information on getting around Europe, money and language issues, good lodgings and restaurants, etc.

Good luck with your planning!

As mentioned above, splitting the Paris-Venice trip might be better going through Switzerland. I spent a few days in Lucerne right before Christmas--actually, I think we departed Lucerne on Christmas Eve. It was a great time of the year to visit. The Christmas lights and displays were out, and the scenery is so beautiful. Sure, it was chilly, but not as cold as it is in Milwaukee-or Minneapolis--that time of the year. I would highly recommend it. It's a bit more on the way than the south of France is.

Generally my technique for building an itenerary is to plan on traveling no more than every other day (about 6 travel days in your timeframe). I try to limit each travel day to three or four hours of travel by car or train.

A four hour train ride becomes a full day because there are two hours of "travel" on either side. Travel days start with packing, checking out of your hotel, getting breakfast, getting to the station on time, catching the right train, making sure you don't miss any connections, getting off at the right stop, eating, getting to your lodging, checking in, unpacking, dinner. I like to start early for a chance to see something before night.

You can check train schedules online (driving times at viamichelin.com) to see how far three or four hours will get you then plan how much ground you can cover during your vacation based on that.

I would probably pick a city at the beginning and end. Fly open jaw (into one and home from the other) and pick a few nice destinations between the two. Don't make every stop a big city, you will get a better feel for a place by including both big and smaller stops.