Anyone used long-term lettings?

How long do you want to stay? We've used http://www.interchalet.co.uk for Italy and they have places all over Europe.

I'm just in research mode right now, and like to check out different areas and prices. Unfortunately on longtermlettings they have the dreaded "prices from" format which means that the quoted prices are only the floor. I like airbnb's price format where you can see prices differences based on the calendar.

Most vacation rentals will rent to you for a week or a month. If it were me I would go to AirBnb and find some places with good reviews, then using Google attempt to find the owners and negotiate. But pick your location first as prices can vary wildly depending on a lot of factors making choosing a city based on rental rates pretty difficult without tons of research. You might check the Lonely Planet websites for average prices if you need bench marks.

In Paris, if you're planning to stay more than 2 months, the average short-term rental agencies won't accommodate you because they can make much more money when charging by the week. You can always ask, though.

If you're planning to stay 6 months or longer, you'll have to fight with all the other residents and temporary students who will be vying for the same apartments you want. They will get priority, though, because they'll have local references, bank statements, pay stubs and an impeccable dossier.

You might try www.sabbaticalhomes.com or corporate rentals, such as www.lodgis.com
Otherwise, you'll have to try "serial renting", which is more trouble than it's worth.

Rob, you are aware of the 90 day Schengen limits, right?

chexbres, I don't know about Paris, but those that I do know of in Central Europe are doing very, very good to rent 180 to 220 nights a year on short term. Depending on the season it makes good sense to provide pretty fair discounts for weekly or monthly rentals. The savings on house keeping costs alone is worth a fair discount. Gets expensive to clean a place properly every 3 days (the avg short term rental period) and that savings along with a little extra in recognition of the higher occupancy rate is often passed along.

JamesE - the average apartment stay is 4 days in Paris. The rental fees more than cover the cost of cleaning and wear-and-tear.
The city of Paris voted to enforce rent controls last year. Long-term apartments are priced according to size and arrondissement - some arrondissements being more expensive than others. The average monthly rent for a long-term apartment of 35 m2 is roughly 850 EU.

Short-term rentals charge an average of 1350 EU for the same size rental - by the week - though it's true that most agencies will give a little price break if rented by the month.

First, what is a long term letting? Are we talking weeks or months? For someone who rents vacation apartments, long term can mean weeks. Some jurisdictions have limitations on the business structure and tax basis that forces owners into either short term or terms of more than 90 days.

Some of it my typo. Should have said 3 nights and not 3 days. Probably more like 3.33 nights, but whose counting. If someone is going to rent for a week or longer the discount with at least one owner that I know is based in part around cleaning costs. Done right, (and he does) cleaning isn’t cheap. For longer periods the discount can be pretty nice; especially if the rental will take an average 60% occupancy month and make it a 90% occupancy month. Empty apartments still incur costs. Of course I don’t really know much about this sort of stuff. Just guessing.

JamesE. - it's pretty much pointless to discuss the rental situation in Paris, since the Mayor has declared the vast majority of them illegal if they aren't rented for 9 months to a student or for 1 full year to someone else.
To date, there are only 107 legal apartments in Paris, according to the Mayor's office.

chexbres, seriously? That's simply amazing. Then who in their right mind would rent one? I guess if the point is to drive down real estate values that will sure do the job.

EDIT: Wow!! http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/jeff-steiner-interviews-adrian-leeds-re-paris-short-term-rentals.cfm

EDIT: And!!! Our Forum Community Guidelines
8. Do not help people break laws. Speaking of the existence of law breaking is OK. Sharing how to circumvent visa restrictions, scam hotels, or perform other illegal acts is prohibited.

JamesE - it has nothing to do with driving down real estate prices, which are actually on the rise.
The whole issue is about freeing up short-term rental apartments so that residents - instead of tourists - can have access to them.

Well, that - and making sure that the property owners 'fess up and start paying taxes in France on the revenue they collect on short-term rentals.

chexbres; but if Paris residents wanting long term rentals could match the income that the apartment owners receive from short term rentals then the apartment would become long term rentals (did that make sense?). But my impression is that the apartment owners will receive less income on long term rentals and apartment value is linked to income potential. So banning short term rentals will either result in empty apartments if they maintain the same income expectations or cheaper apartments. I would suspect cheaper apartments. No political bias here. Just what I believe to be the result. France belongs to the French and its not my place to comment on their choices.

Paris is unique and every situation is different. I was surprised to read only 1/3 of Parisians own their home. The US average is about 65%, UK and France about 60%, Germany about 40% (I found all sorts of wild numbers so take them with a grain of salt).

There is one city in Europe that I am aware of that was in a terrible state of repair when the Soviets pulled out. The country was so poor that the old buildings were in ruins. Short term rentals have raised the value of the buildings to the point that money is pouring in to rebuild the city. The downside is that many that once lived in the derelict old buildings can no longer afford to do so. Right? Wrong? For each to decide. We have the same thing going on in the US, we call it Gentrification and it gets the same criticism.

A solution in Paris might involve higher taxes on foreign owners. That would encourage transferring the ownership back to French citizens without necessarily wrecking property values.

chexbres, thanks for the discussion. the tug and pull between civilization, rights, capitalism, etc. I just find fascinating.

JamesE - vacation rentals are bought and renovated as investment properties, bringing in far more income than is allowed under the city's rent control plan. When the property owner is sanctioned by the Mayor's office, all rentals must stop, or he must pay a large fine for each day and for each unit if he continues to rent.

The other option is to sell - there are a lot of "turn-key, fully-furnished apartments" for sale in Paris at the moment. Foreign investors looking for a way to avoid paying taxes are usually the ones interested in buying them. They are priced at the normal level - depending on size and neighborhood.

The majority of these apartments are too small for a working class couple or family to live in, especially given the prices in "demand" neighborhoods.

chexbres, goes to prove that there are no one-size-fits-all explanations, judgments, solutions in the world. Again, thank you for the explanation. Really insightful. I love this forum when I learn.

while we are discussing it.

too small for a working class couple or family to live in

What do you consider too small? My perception is that living accommodation expectations vary from place to place.

Most of the large apartments - 100 m2 - have been cut up into units averaging 32 m2. This is the average size of a vacation rental. Some are larger - 50 m2 - and a few have not been reconfigured at all, but these are luxury apartments which cost a lot more.
Since these measurements include all the space that can be measured in the apartment - including closet space, sleeping lofts, kitchen, bathroom, hallways and anything else possible - most people who would hope to live in an apartment of 32 m2 full time would find it more than a little cramped, especially if there were children involved.

When I got to Berlin the first week in June 2016, I saw in a local newspaper that AirBnB is illegal in Berlin...good.

I am happy to see chexbres recommend www.sabbaticalhomes.com. We've been using them in Roma and I intend to make them my friend for other long-ish stays in other cities.

Chexbres - I see that you've commented many times about the situation in Paris and illegal apartment rentals. Do the sites you mention, www.lodgis.com and sabbaticalhomes.com, offer legal rentals? thanks.

Yes and no.

Lodgis is just a listing service, like any other vacation rental agency.
SabbaticalHomes used to cater to academics and people who wanted home exchanges, but this doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

On either of these sites, an apartment which is rented for 9 months to a student, or for a period of one year for anyone else, is legal - as long as the tenant has the owner's permission to sublet it. If it's the owner's property, he must reside in it at least 8 months out of the year. It's practically impossible to obtain proof of either circumstance, though. A law was recently passed requiring a registration number that must be visible on all advertising, but this is slow in coming.

There are many properties on both the websites you mentioned which rent for a period of one or more months, but if you check these sites periodically, it turns out that they are rented all year long - which is not legal.

The legal properties which Lodgis advertises are the completely unfurnished apartments, which require a lease of one year, renewable for 2 years afterwards. But you'll normally have to install a full kitchen.