Hello. Some friends and I are hoping to tour Europe in the summer of 2012. One issue we've been discussing is the rise in hatred in Europe toward specific groups (see title of question). Two of our group are Jews who have had mild discrimination towards them in a few European countries (France and Spain mostly) and one very lovely lady is Muslim (she's never been to Europe). Have any of you experienced discrimination of this sort in any of the places you've travelled? Should we be extra cautious or just be ourselves and hope for the best? I've had one or two examples of hostility towards me from Europeans because I'm from the US, but nothing serious. Most family and friends tell me to just be ourselves and not worry, but with all the news out there about anti-whatever on the rise I can't help but worry just a little. Any advice?
If you're worried about dirty looks or rude comments... well, you can run into a jerk having a bad day anywhere. But actual politically motivated violence against tourists is exceptionally rare. And anyone who pays attention to you will know you are a tourist.
Kathleen, As I don't fit any of the categories you mentioned in the title, I can't offer any first-hand experience on this subject. However, based on my observations during travels in Europe, you likely won't have any problems if you follow the usual "Rick Steves Travel Philosophy" - be respectful of local customs, try to use a few words of the local language, don't be "loud" in restaurants, etc. Europe seems to have become quite a "melting pot", and has populations of various size in each of the groups you mentioned. While there's some degree of resentment towards the immigrant populations in some countries, it will probably be apparent that you're tourists (you'll be the ones with a blue & gold Guidebook in hand!). I'm surprised to hear that you've encountered some "hostility" from Europeans due to your nationality. The majority of the groups that I travel with on RS Tours are Americans, and I've never heard anyone complain of that sort of treatment. If you were going to be travelling Russia, this may be a concern. The summer of 2012 is a long way in the future and the attitude towards foreigners could change in that time. However, IMHO you should be fine. Happy travels!
No one's going to ask you about your religion unless you wear religious garb. If you're worried about looking "American", you can try to dress like Europeans dress, which is what Americans are always counseled to do anyway on boards like this (something I don't quite get... Europeans dress more like us every day, but ask the experts here.) And don't wear yellow stars or glaring white tennies. Of course, your American accents will give you away, so it's probably best only to speak with those who depend on you for tips.
Hi Kathleen. I'm a (Reform) Jewish traveler who has been to Europe several times. I've heard about various anti-Semitic events in Europe (one of the most recent was that Orthodox Jews were getting beaten up on the streets of Amsterdam; the problem became so bad that Dutch police officers dressed up like Orthodox men as bait) but I never felt unsafe in Amsterdam or anywhere else because of my religion. I'm careful not to wear any jewelry or say anything that might give people an indication of my religion. I believe that most people in most places in the world don't have a problem with Jews, but I wouldn't want to take the chance of running into someone who does.
Very interesting question. I'm surprised & saddened that your Jewish friends have had problems in Europe. As a Jewish American female who has traveled in Europe by myself and is continuing to do so, that's unnerving to me personally and disappointing in general. I went all over Europe a couple of years ago (including Spain but not France) and never faced any antisemtism (or anti-Americanism). but, I don't wear any Jewish jewelry or have an obvious Jewish name. For example, I know that Malmo, Sweden has had some serious antisemitic events but I spent a lovely day there just over 3 years ago. That said, I might not return today just on principle because it is coming from the government there. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what precautions would really protect your friends b/c i don't think any of you are in danger of physical harm. they could alter their dress/accessories as to not appear outwardly Jewish or Muslim, but I think having to do that is sad, if that's how they normally dress/accessorize The other thing you could do is research where the worst of the problems are and try to avoid them, but then the argument is that they win and keep you away from a place you want to see, unless it's a conscious decision not to financially support places w/government-sponsored antisemitism/anti-Muslim issues. As for being American, I wouldn't even consider it twice. I've always been open in hotels, restaurants, shops, etc. about being American when asked, and I've only ever received kindness in return. There will be bigots and jerks everywhere, but I personally believe strongly that the way you are treated in Europe (and anywhere else) is how you treat them. If you act politely, respect the local traditions and customs, and learn a few words in the languages, I think you and your friends will almost surely be treated well. Moral of this long tale: don't worry!
Kathleen, You might enjoyed reading This section on the Graffiti Wall. It's a bit "dated" but still interesting to read. I especially enjoyed the post from Kirsten about the train ticket "mixup" (I've also experienced the "pleasure" of being fined on Italian trains, although not for the situation described in the post - that was easily avoidable, especially for travellers that follow the RS methods). The others have provided some great advice about not wearing "beacon items" in clothing or jewellry that might draw attention to religion or nationality. One other observation that occurred to me after my last reply, was that most Americans I've spoken with in Europe have told me that Europeans generally like visiting with American travellers, but they have more of a problem with U.S. politics. I've been told that things are much more favourable in that regard since your last election. Cheers!
I only hit one of your three categories (American). I can tell you that I have never experienced any anti-Americanism anywhere that I have travelled in Europe (UK, Scandanavia, France, Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg and Estonia). On the contrary, people have been friendly and helpful. If you have the misfortune to run into a jerk (it can happen anywhere), try not to judge the whole country by that one person.
I am one of those proud Americans that do not care who knows where I am from. My day back pack has the flag of the 11 countries I have visited, including the Israeli flag which is up top in the middle. We are French, Jewish and American Indian and Christian. My daughter and I wear our Star of Davids here in the US but never wear any jewelery when traveling abroad except for watch and ear rings. I am one of those old ladies (70 soon) that would never cover up my religion or who I am. As you note there is one religion that broadcast who they are. Therefore, I will never cover up. Until we stand up and make a stand.....nothing will change.
I'm an American Reform Jewish woman as well, and I've lived in France twice (and traveled widely around Europe as well). My name makes it obvious that I'm Jewish, and I've never experienced any problems. If anything, people were fascinated by me because they had never met a Jewish person before. As others already said, you can experience the things you experienced right here in the USA as well, and I think you'd be making a big mistake if you cancel a trip for fear being discriminated against.
I go to Europe every summer and have taken 8 RS tours while I was there (only one a year) and spend extra time either before the tour, after the tour, or both. I have been from the Scandinavian countries to Spain to Eastern Europe to Turkey this summer. I have never experienced any anti-anything in all of my travels and I do not hide the fact that we are from the US. I must admit that I was very pleasantly surprised by the attitude of all the folks we met in Istanbul.
I did not know what to expect ahead of time but we had a wonderful time there and would go back in a minute. I do believe in "what you give is what you get". Happy travels.
I don't know how anyone would know what religion you are unless you somehow advertise it by the jewelry you wear. Of course this statement may not apply to a Muslim. No one is going to know if you have a Jewish name unless you are checking into a hotel or some other reason for your name to become known. No one you casually meet on the street, in a restaurant or anywhere else would have any reason to know. And not every Jew has a Jewish name. I don't anymore, since I no longer use my maiden name. And if it helps, my German relatives DO have a Jewish name, and are not Jewish (long story). I asked them once is they have ever been discriminated against because of their name. They said no! I have also never been discriminated against because I am American. I don't hide the fact that I am, but I also don't flaunt it. I think that most of the native people wherever you visit will only know that you are speaking English and not be able to detect what country you are from.
"I don't know how anyone would know what religion you are unless you somehow advertise it by the jewelry you wear." Some Jews are know to wear yamukahs 24/7. Others also wear tallit under their shirts, the very end of it is is intentionally left dandling over the pants. Lots of ultra-Orthodox women only wear skirts down to the ankles, with sneakers, and wigs. It's a very common sight in my part of NY state, and I've noticed them doing touristy things throughout Europe and other parts of the world. For some it's very easy to identify their religion.
As other people have said there are idiots everywhere. Just be polite and friendly and I am sure it will be fine. Also remember that there is a difference between actual hostility and people just being ignorant and putting their foot in their mouth. A Muslim friend of mine travels a lot and said he has encounters the second situation a fair bit in areas where there are no Muslims and all the knowledge of Muslims therefore comes from the media. He doesn't regard it as people being hostile though. I spent 6 months in America and encountered hostility myself, but it has not put me off going back as I just assumed the people I encountered were idiots and not representative of the whole nation!
We ran into one man who was anti-American who was staying at the same place we were (we stayed there for 5 days, so we had a lot of run-ins with him). I think a lot of it was due to politics (this was early in the Iraq war), but some was just due to stereotypes because some of the comments he made. The other people staying there were all very nice to us, and we've stayed in touch with some of them for years. For them, they were all very interested in meeting Americans (apparently, no Americans had ever stayed at this place before, and we were the talk of the place before we arrived) and we were treated like family. As for that other guy, he and his family ended up avoiding a lot of the festivities there, which included cookouts and a beer fest night, and I assume it was because of us. His loss.
As Erica said, most people who have never met a Jew are just curious about us. All of the Europeans I've met have either been really curious or indifferent to my religion. Either way, I have always felt like I could be myself.
Perhaps I have a particularly cosmpolitan group of acquaintances, or perhaps it is because "Europe" comprises so many different countries and cultures, but I am amazed at some of the postings here. In my lifetime I have met any number of Jews, and I am not aware that they are particularly different from anyone else I have met. The same is true of Moslems. What I think you may find is that the more orthodox Jews and Muslims tend to congregate and live in certain areas, parts of North London, for example. There is prejudice and intolerance, but this seldom directed at individuals. I am also suprised that anyone could find part of Europe where they were the first American tourists ever and were the subject of curiosity, let alone prejudice. Go to the remotest British church and look at the visitor's book. One can be almost certain of finding an American visitor in the past week. Maybe it was the behaviour of the tourists rather than their nationality that caused hostility.
'Maybe it was the behaviour of the tourists rather than their nationality that caused hostility.' Amen.
I've lived in Paris twice, and travel throughout Europe often. I have never been treated badly because I'm American. There's been plenty of hostility and violence towards Jews, Blacks, American Indians, Muslims and tourists here in the US. I live a few miles north of San Francisco, and many European tourists have been murdered in SF for their money. So I don't understand the worry about going to Europe which is far safer than the US.
Bob, you hit the nail on the head. I don't know what's so strange about Jewish people either, but maybe that's because I am Jewish and I'm also interested in all different cultures and religions. In the U.S. at least, I think a lot of wariness about Jews comes from a combination of ignorance and stereotypes. In Europe the case is different, depending on which country you're in. Germany has a strong relationship with Israel and is actively encouraging Jews to return to Germany.
Here we go again with this notion that Europe is this "nirvana", free of racism, and antisemitism, and everybody gets along like an episode of Barney:) It's wasn't too long go that ethnic cleansing was ongoing in the former Yugoslav republic. Today there are still UN troops in Kosovo seperating different ethinc groups from slaughtering each other. There are racial/religious tensions in Paris and Marseilles, churches and mosques have been torched in Holland, Jewish cemeteries continue to be desecrated, there is an outcry over the deportation of Roma by the French Government, bananas have been thrown at black soccer players in Spain, there has been trouble around Pakistani neighborhoods in the UK, and lets not forget about Northern Ireland. Europe is no different than any other part of the planet: most people could careless what people are or where they came from...a minority can't handle it, and stir up trouble. Getting back to the original question, the average tourist doesn't need to worry about any of this, most people are simply curious of the color of your money...life goes on.
The initial question in this topic, let's not forget, is about discrimination in Europe. We all know European countries have plenty of their own problems regarding different cultures.
I've not been to Europe a lot. But I do think I have a neon sign on me that says; GRINGO. That's not bad. People are curious about us. And I'm still amazed how many people want to practice their english with us. OK. OK. So my English, ain't dat good. To be honest. I've seen more anti feelings toward tour groups. Be they American or English, or Japanese or even groups of school kids from local schools. And I've even felt those feelings. You're in a neat Brugge cafe and 50 Japanese tourist come in. You're trying to see a favorite painting. And A tour group of fellow Americans is in the way. (And I've also been on tours and gotten frustrated with the tours I was on.) I keep telling my wife, I'm going to buy a bright umbrella. Raise it in the air. And walk around. Just to see how many people on tours; I gather. In short. IMHO Most of the concerns are over stated. And sometimes politically motivated by the politically correct. Which is political but not correct.
You are right Michael. My answer was not very well thought out. I live in a city that does not have much Jewish presence. I don't believe I have ever seen anyone on the streets wearing a yamukah. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to find matzo at Passover or candles for the menorah. People who live in places like New York would have a much better prospective than I do.
"Actually Marseille is not too affected in that respect. There were no riots here in 2007." http://www.ejpress.org/article/16392 http://philosemitism.blogspot.com/2008/08/anti-semitic-assault-in-marseille.html http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49503,00.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/04/01/world/main505111.shtml
Kathleen, I think you and your friends may be pleasantly surprised at your "European reception." I am not an expert on European travel but in May had just completed my 38th trip (unescorted) there; traveling by train and the last 20 or so times I suppose, by car. Guess I have been to just about every European country at least once and have always done it pretty much "on the cheap" staying in pensions, b & b's and the like. My reception there as a touring (I prefer exploring) American in the matter of negative experiences has been just about zero. Being a Chicagoan perhaps has given me a little thicker skin and has toughened me a bit to small "slights" and ocassional less than friendly glances. Actual confrontation, again, has been zero. My travel rule is simple. I accept the fact that I am a visitor (guest) in that particular country, restaurant, church, museum, etc. and I try to conduct myself as such. I dress inconspicuously and try to "blend in" as much as possible. Have found 99.9% of Europeans to be a delightful, charming and helpful people. Also prior to leaving I brush up on my (in their language) hellos, goodbys, pleases, thank yous, etc. Your concern is natural. Prior to my first trip way back when to Germany and Switzerland I had no idea what to really expect. On the plane ride back I was already planning my next venture. Enjoy! Richard
"There are racial/religious tensions in Paris and Marseilles," Actually Marseille is not too affected in that respect. There were no riots here in 2007.
Well I want to thank everyone who replied to my initial question. Your comments have really helped (Dan I looooove your comment about holding the umbrella and the tour group). I'm sorry it took so long for me to reply. Right after posting my question, my computer crashed (completely, absolutely, entirely, CRASHED). It's taken forever to sort it out. :-( Stupid computer geeks and their viruses!
I've never had a problem in Europe at all (I hope I'm not testing my luck here) and have had plenty in different areas of the US because of the state I'm from. I would say one thing is forget about trying to not look like a tourist, they know very well you are. For instance: Rick says to not use a fanny pack and to use a daypack. I agree but a daypack makes you look like a tourist as well. I use a waistpack that attaches to my belt, is very tough, has all I need and can be put in defended positions. Don't bring flashy clothes and whatnot. I wear only neutral colors with maybe one nice thing if I intend on doing something a little on the more formal side. Learn two phrases at minimum: "Excuse me" and "Thank you" just out of good manners. I know others on this thread have said it but be careful to keep your voice down, don't go shouting across a train station or raise your voice in a restaurant.
In 2006 I was having a beer one evening in a pub in London, and happened to strike up a conversation with a elderly gentleman at the next table. We chatted for an hour or two and I found out that he is Danish, and has travelled the world frequently, had even spent time when he was younger living on a kibbutz in Israel. I remember that because I was curious as to why he chose to do that, and what he did while there. It wasn't until the next day that it dawned on me that perhaps he was jewish. My point I guess is that when I travel ( well, to be precise this is me all the time), I could care less what your religion is, what your skin colour is, what your ethnic background is, what your nationality is, etc, etc. I like meeting people who are friendly and interesting to talk to, and those types belong to every race, creed, colour around. In my opinion, there are just as many non judgemental, open minded, tolerant and warm people in Europe as there are in Canada or the U.S. ( but like us they have some of the opposite as well). If you're a warm and friendly person, I'm confident in saying that you will finds lots of people just like yourself in Europe, regardless of your religion, nationality, etc
LONG LIVE DIVERSITY AND TOLERANCE :)
Glenn, lovely post and I am like you too. There isn't more anti anything in Europe than anywhere else in the world, including North America. Be polite and courteous, and you will fit in nicely.
This being my 4th year living in Germany, I must say Americans are really loud. My family included, as we have elementary school aged children. We try to fit in, but sometimes it's just really obvious. Whether it's adults conversing loudly on the train platform or yelling down the street after your kids, it yells "Americans!" to everyone. You can see the locals cringe sometimes.
"LONG LIVE DIVERSITY AND TOLERANCE :)" I knew Rick was posting here!
As a Canadain I am sure I am often mistaken for American( we wear same brands of clothes, talk same language, and basically are culturally very similar) .. but when someone is rude or abrupt with me, I don't think its because they think I am either American or Canadain( I have never actually had any specifically SAY " oh you Canadian or American) so why do some people JUMP to the conclusion that some rude treatment is because of their nationality etc,,, have you ever just thought perhaps you were treated with some " hostility" just because the person doing so was just a jerk, having a bad day, sick of tourists in general, or perhaps just burnt out (especially if we are talking about those in service jobs, like waiters or metro workers) .. I never feel I am treated badly because of my nationality ( or what they think it is) and I have been to Europe quite a bit in last 15 years, and I don't notice an increase of rude treatment in general. I did witness an American couple( I had been chatting with them at a cafe) being VERY rude to a young man sitting at a table between us. He was reading a book titled " Introduction to Islam" (something to that effect) and the drunk lady actualy said to him( we don't want you reading that" .. at which he politely muttered,, " we aren't are terrorists you know" .. it was so embarrassing. So I guess it can work both ways.
Kathy, because your family tends to be louder than the average German does not mean that it's wrong or a bad thing. You can only fit in so much without losing who you are. Being different isn't bad. Unless you are overly loud and obnoxious, they will get over it :-) We can't all be German!
I still say the best thing is to just not bring attention to yourself. They will know a tourist anyway so just be safe and Rick's got the best basic advice for that I've seen. I grew up in the NYC area (and around various things you may call humanity) and my brothers always said in bad areas "Keep your head down and your mouth shut!" In other words just take care. You're going to have fun and outside of the basics of safety I doubt that you will have any problems.
Eli you are so right and being different is not at all bad, how boring it would be if we were all the same. However, in general, Americans are louder than most and stand out more in a crowd because every one can hear them. Germans are also loud (and in my opinion far more opinionated than Americans) and drunks from any nation are even louder which must be comforting. We Brits spend our time apologising and thanking people in equal measure and avoiding issues that might offend and starching our upper lips, unless of course we have emigrated to Spain in which case we have usually had a personality removal and a brain drain, which in turn grants us permission not only to purchase Spanish properties built without building permission but also kid ourselves and those we wish to impress that we have actually moved abroad. I digress. Kathleen, don't worry, I have not personally witnessed anti-Americanism here in Europe any more than I have anti-Britism. No matter where you go you will likely meet bigots but the majority of people will be helpful and friendly towards you or indifferent.
My experience with bad treatment in Europe has mostly been confined to Britain. But we're unsure if we are treated so badly because we're Americans or if everyone in Britain treats each other poorly. I've actually experienced more anti-Americanism by snobs in Chicago who think that Europe is the center of the universe than in Europe itself. The big surprise was Eastern Europe, particularly Russia, where many wanted to get to know me because I was American. But my general rule is, if you want to go somewhere go--who cares if they hate you?
The thread's a couple of years old.
At least start a new one