Another reason to wear a moneybelt.

Frank, obviously she showed her age here, a middle aged woman knows better then to ever " put her bag down " LOL . Geesh, travel 101.

Ands lets be honest ,, who would put their bag down " just for a moment " in say,, Grand Central Staion?? And who wears a money belt at home????

Your cousin was lucky she was able to phone her mom and dad who took care of everything for her, many of us do NOT have that safety net,, we ARE mom and dad!!

Well, I grew up in NYC...we used to play a game...."Spot the Tourist." It was easy. And age had nothing to do with it. People were either savvy or not. I've seen teenagers who knew how to protect themselves against theft and middle aged women who were so naive it was pathetic. And there are lots of people who put their bags down in Grand Central--albeit all tourists and all ages.

I worked as a tour director for many years and had to consntantly remind my passengers--most middle aged and older--to be cautious.

Oh, and by the way, I know a lot of New Yorkers who wear moneybelts, women who keep their purses turned inwards and in front of them, and almost all knew how to keep themselves from being victims.

True, in your local suburban neighborhood, there's little chance of getting your pocket picked. But if I'm traveling anywhere with extra cash or credit cards, I'm wearing a money belt.

Age is not the factor. It's travel saavy.

FRank , you wear a money belt at home when you have your CC's on you,, ? Don't you think thats being a tad too careful. I carry my atm card and two ccs everywhere with me, all the time.

How can someone get money from the ATM without a pin number?

We would really like to know this. Does anyone know? This happened in the US (at college) to a young lady recently, and I asked her mother how it was possible without the PIN.

Eli, thevies have been known to watch people enter their pins ( they can use cameras too) and I am sure their are some theives who are savy enough to have machines that can scan for the PIN.
I am not sure , but I know it is an issue, one reason I suppose most ATMS have limits on how much can be withdrawn at once, to protect the bank and the consumer.

Pat, I am so sorry I've insulted you so much. I've removed my advice to take precautions at home with safety from thieves.

I forgot, and please, please, please forgive me....there is no crime in Victoria. I never should have hinted it.

Now, will you tell that to one of my passengers who had her wallet stolen from her purse outside the Empress Hotel in Victoria.

I'm guessing you never wear a moneybelt because you are just so travel savvy.

I'm sorry to hear this story, but hopefully it will put to rest the continuing dialogue that seems to go on on this board about the necessity of using a moneybelt when travelling abroad. This should be a no-brainer for anyone at any age. Whether you do the same at home in the US, or Canada, etc. is another story, but losing money, credit cards, passport in a foreign country is a major hassle -- sure it happens to a minority of folks, but how often do we have to be reminded of how devastating this can be? It's amazing how many people post here asking if they really need to use a money belt. It's one of Rick's foremost guidelines -- listen to him!

Frank , no need to be so defensive. I did not mean that at all.
I do not wear a money belt at home, most people don't Frank, but please feel free to do so if it helps you cope at home, you do live in the States, but I apparently wrongly assumed that MOST Americans feel safe enough in their own cities to not wear a money belt at home.

Crime happens everywhere Frank, is this concept foreign to you??
I am sorry your cousin got stolen from , but really, she pulled what we call at real" boner" meaning she did something really stupid( put bag down in busy public place, duh.)

Citing my city was a joke Frank, my city is actually a very busy tourist city, and a cruise port.Theives like tourists. We handle hundreds of thousands of tourists ,, most from USA, and Asian countries. Unfortunately many of the Americans show shocking lack of common sense, THEY seem to feel a small Canadain city has no crime,, us locals don't think that at all. I wouldn't put my bag down at home either.

I don't wear a moneybelt when traveling in the US for two reasons--pickpocketing is commoner in Europe, whereas US criminals are more likely to rob you--and I stand out more in Europe as a target than I do in a US city, increasing my odds of being targeted. Having said that, I am careful even in my home city. I walk with a sense of purpose, keep alert for people crowding me or acting strangely, and wear a bag across my body in front of me. (And in cities that I think of as particularly crime-ridden, my valuables are in zippered inside pockets and anyone stealing my purse will get only a change purse, my lip balm, tissues, a map, etc.

Pat, I don't wear a moneybelt at home.

Pat, I don't know where you got that idea or why you keep harping on it.

And no, Pat, I do not think that most people wear a moneybelt at home. (You keep harping on moneybelts).

When I said "even at home," I meant home country...not your personal community, Pat.

But look at what your wrote...her age did it..older people are too smart to do that.

And then you said "Crime happens everywhere, is this concept foreign to you?" If it was foreign to me, Pat, would I have been the one to remind people to be careful no matter where they are?

I posted this story to remind people that in this day and age we have to be wary of our surroundings and even when in our own country. You, Pat, first attacked my cousin because of her age, and said all people your age know better. (Not true) Then you attacked me as if I was naive and fearful, then you attacked my countrymen saying they have no common sense.

You owe us all an apology.

And just so you don't think I"m very naive on this subject....I've lived in many places including New York City, Los Angeles and Miami. I spent a few years taking people on sightseeing tours. I spent a few years as a journalist covering crime. I've been trained by professionals on how to spot crime against tourists.

I wrote the original post as a reminder that we all have to be cautious and how easy it is to lose valuables. I agree my cousin was stupid.

You took it as a personal insult. Look at your initial post. Reread it carefully. You don't think it's insulting. (But then, since you harp on moneybelts, perhpas you read things that aren't even there and I should just ignore everything you ever write.)

Well Frank, I did reread my post, and I guess it does say your cousin did something dumb and the consequences surprised no one but her ( apparently) .

I have no idea why you brought up crime in my city, I sure didn't,, I am not surprised at all a tourist got ripped off in a tourist city,, what a concept.

I guess the line in your intial post was the tinder

" Take heed anyone is suscepticle" .. yes it can and does happen anywhere, but some people ARE much more suscepticle , since YOUR cousin carryied money , an IPOd and her jewelry in her bag and then she put her bag DOWN.. even with a money belt she would have lost her ipod and jewelry.. so a money belt is NOT the only answer to being secure ,, people have to take responsiblity and not just count on one way to deter thefts.

As I said Frank, I did not mean to " insult " your cousin, but she did a dumb thing and the totally unsurpising happened.

Thanks for the good first post, Frank. Very helpful example! I told my husband just this weekend it is not even up for discussion whether he will wear a moneybelt in Europe and Turkey. He just sighed and acquiesced, but I know deep down he doesn't REALKLY think it's necessary. Well, as long as he does wear it, right? And I have Rick and all you fine folks for convincing me of that! :)

Thanks for the good first post, Frank. Very helpful example! I told my husband just this weekend it is not even up for discussion whether he will wear a moneybelt in Europe and Turkey. He just sighed and acquiesced, but I know deep down he doesn't REALLY think it's necessary. Well, as long as he does wear it, right? And I have Rick and all you fine folks for convincing me of that! :)

Karen, one thing you might want to think about is letting him wear the type of moneybelt that has loops and is worn by putting his belt through the loops. The moneybelt then hangs between his leg and the inside of his pant leg. I find this one much more comfortable than the one that goes around your waist. I sometimes forget it's there and will gently feel for it from the outside of my pants. Of course, if he doesn't wear a belt, then this one won't work.

I have almost every type of moneybelt made and I find this one the most comfortable.

Identity theft like Cam experienced is scary; you're being targeted with no forwarning.

With Frank's cousin it was probably an unplanned oportunity (but who knows). However, PIN #s people choose are often something like a date of birth, part of home address, or something like that (because they're easy to remember). All of that information was probably in her purse and a couple of tries could easily have resulted in cracking the PIN.

Another argument against carrying a wallet in back pocket, or even front pocket, vs a money belt or something secure. When I was in Ireland a couple years ago one of the guys I was traveling with lost his wallet on the bus. The bus was empty, the wallet wasn't stolen, it just fell out of his pocket and his pants weren't even loose and/or baggy. He was lucky that he could call home within half an hour and his parents could cancel cards and wire him money for the rest of his trip.

Couldn't resist sharing this true story from a couple of years ago. Here in Las Vegas, people were noticing that their ATM/debit cards were being used to empty their checking accounts when the cards had not been lost. Metro (the police) found out that there was a group of criminals who were attaching some sort of device on gas station pumps which would read the cards and the pins and record that information. This really happened! Thank goodness our police are used to fantastic schemes and were able to discover the source of the problem quickly - within a few days. Apparently the device is portable and was being moved often. Later comments from victims included statement that the gas pumps looked "different, but not enough to be concerned. Moral: If it looks strange, don't use it.

Frank, my husband and son used the one that hangs around the neck and hated those. This was summer of 2006 in Europe during the hottest days (July) and they felt miserable and sweaty all day.

We were considering the money belt that Rick sells, but after what you posted, I was wondering where one could find what you described. Hubby does use a belt.

On the question of getting cash without the pin. The answer about someone watching her use her pin is usually the answer. We seldom talk about being practical at the ATM, shield yourself from prying eyes, and don't expect good results when you use an ATM on a dark alley, at night in a bad part of town.

In most cases a stolen ATM card is used to buy small amounts of gas or other items. Many small stores run the card as a credit card and, for small purchases, no approval and no pin is required.

Thanks Brad. I was really getting worried about using our ATM.

We tend to watch each other's back while travelling, and also when we have luggage. If my daughter and I go to the bathroom, we would leave whatever we were carrying with hubby and son and vice versa.

When getting money from an ATM, we tend to surround my husband. Hope that at least helps a bit. Only thing that bugs me about him is that he would turn around and begin to walk counting his darn money! We'll change that too.

My grandma used to travel with her cash in her bosom. She always said no one would dare get into her bra to take her cash! Maybe I might try that one, lol

Could she have had the pin somewhere in her bag? and the thief found it? I often wonder how people get this kind of information. I was in NYC over the summer and I only used my debit card the entire time. When I got home I tried to use it and it wouldn't work even though I had more than enough money in my account. I called my bank and someone had my information and was trying to buy almost $1000 in cell phones and over $5000 in clothes from Turkey! Thankfully they noticed the weird charges and stopped it and refunded my money for the cell phones and sent me a new card. But my question was how did they get that info? It makes me nervous about my upcoming trip to Italy. My bag was not stolen nothing was pickpocketed but still I do not know how they got that info.

If you have a debit card with the visa or mc logo on it, you don't need a pin to make purchases; it can be used just like a credit card; just a signature is required to complete the transaction.

So we probably need to get with a pin then?

Dang Cam, that's scary!

The MC and Visa debit cards all have pins, but you only use the pin number when using at ATMs for cash.

Well I can't remember for sure but I think it was on TripAdvisor a year or so ago a very long discussion about different posters having their ATM's accessed by someone other than themself. We are talking about American's while overseas. ATM's accessed without pin numbers & one person who's account was attempted access overseas after they had already returned home to the States. None of these people could figure any of it out. No lost or stolen cards in any of the cases. Sounds strange & seems impossible but who knows. All sorts of people responded talking about hidden cameras on the ATM machines, people w/binoculars watching unsuspecting tourists & all such scenarios. For any of us that travel we just have to be extra careful & keep all important documents as safe as possible. I suppose there will always be unusual circumstances in any situation.

There are lots of us "Franks" on this board in general, but only one in this subject. When you place the "initial" post, the counter won't show.

I checked my bank account online and found a $100 withdrawal from an atm in Connecticut. I hadn't been there is 3 years AND had my atm card in my possession. I don't withdraw money while some one is standing near me, etc. When I asked my bank how this could happen, the only answer I got was "You just won't believe how many ways it can be done." Not much help but my money was refunded and I got a new card and PIN.Can you imagine the things crooks could accomplish if they used all this ingenuity for something good?

We all have too many PIN's and we're supposed to change them every so often. Who can keep track? Here's my suggestion. In either your cell phone or in an address book, create a fake listing where the last 4 digits are the PIN. Ex-Uncle Joe Blow 447-1234. That will help your memory without giving help to thieves. If they start running through all your phone #'s, the atm will shut down after about 4 tries. I see too many people at work who just write down 4 digits on a piece of paper in their bag. Like no one would know why those 4 digits were there.
But maybe you should use a name other than Uncle Joe Blow.

Karen, that is fairly clever idea except that I don't have my cell phone with me in Europe. But I do carry a Palm and could put it in that index. However, I have always put my PIN on the back of the credit card in a code. My sense is the code is nearly unbreakable and by the time it was decoded the card would be cancelled. And I believe the code would be unbreakable for the theft.

Some people use the last four digits of their social which I don't like. We need to begin thinking like thieves and coming up with ideas for our pins that would baffle them, but not baffle us when we try to use it.

Here's a great article about debit cards from Reader's Digest. The post talking about the gas station scam reminded me of this. It was very helpful to read.

http://www.rd.com/money/savvy-consumer/scams-frauds-rip-offs/debit-card-traps-and-fees-to-avoid/article50626.html

But it is kind of old news. I thought the article would address some of the fraud problems other than scanning. The standard recommendation here and else where is to use debit cards at an ATM for cash and a credit card for all other major purposes. And a portable scammer can be used on both a debit and credit cards so paying in cash offers a little extra protection.