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Amerexit?

Lately there's been more talk than I've ever heard about leaving the homeland for good. I'm no stranger to vagabond dreams myself... I have no real interest in a permanent home abroad, but I have long entertained fantasies of bouncing from continent to continent for what's left of my life - or for as long as I'm able - or for at least some of that time. I may be willing to play visa games to work around 3-month tourist-stay limits, but that would not be my choice. And I'm not genuinely interested in employment or education visas.

This article has some suggestions for those who would be permanent ex-pats - including a couple in northern Europe which don't hold much appeal. There just have to be other/better options besides Svalbard (average summer temp = 39 to 43 °F) for US political refugees, ex-pat wannabes, and vagabond wannabes like me.

So, to those of you who've been working on similar plans for whatever reasons... or who've carried them out... I (and DW) are seeking suggestions on the European continent (and elsewhere, except for the Middle East) for welcoming destinations where stays upwards of 3 months might be feasible. (Oh, I should mention we're not looking for cruise or sailboating suggestions.)

Also, if you have positive experience with any of the ex-pat (which again, I am not and do not wish to be) forums out there, I'd welcome your suggestions.

Posted by
15168 posts

If all you want to stay is up to 90 days, the choices are infinite. If you are looking for more amenable weather (are you from Paradise, Cal. near Chico?) then look at the Mediterranean countries. The climate is similar to California and they are definitely cheaper than Northern Europe.
Just be aware that outside of big heavily visited cities, English is not well known, therefore you will need to be somewhat familiar with the local language, at least at some beginner's level.

Posted by
437 posts

Easy if money is unlimited. Pick two locales - one in Schengen zone and one out of it, then move back and forth every 89 days. Alternatively, apply for a permanent residence visa in a country where havng cash in the bank is the primary requirement - maybe Italy or Portugal. Or, if you have the documents to prove you have Irish grandparents, try Ireland.

A few months in UAE may change your appreciation for the USA. :-)

Stay or leave, but do write your congressman about issues that matter to you.

Enjoy the planning and the adventure!

Posted by
12 posts

Thailand is a great possibility. Cheap living, good food, friendly locals. You do have to leave the country every 90 days but travel companies organize bus trips to Cambodia for the day. Cross the border, have lunch maybe, go through Thai immigration and get another 90 day visa. The weather is great 6 or 7 months of the year. By April it gets too hot for most of us. So you'd have to find a second home for the summer.

Posted by
672 posts

@Russ: Why would you ever want to leave "Paradise"? You are already there. I know, not a helpful reply, but couldn't resist. Sorry.

Posted by
27112 posts

This link has a handy map on which you can see at a glance which countries (unfortunately not labeled!) are outside the Schengen zone and which are just candidate members. Those two groups are potential places to wait out the 90+ day gaps you'll need to build into a Schengen-area travel plan if you choose not to get a visa. This is not an official website, so you should use it just for preliminary information, then go to official country websites for verification. Each of those countries will have its own time limit (which may well be 90 days), but that limit will apply to each country individually, which is much more flexible than the all-Schengen limit.

Be sure you're looking at current information. I did some checking last year and remember reading that Americans could stay in Poland for six months (though Poland is in the Schengen Area). That may have been outdated information even then. I looked recently and found no current references to an extended period available to Americans. I'm very glad I did not decide to head off to Poland for six months last year.

As the map indicates, all the Balkan countries between (but not including) Slovenia and Greece are currently outside Schengen. I used those countries as an escape hatch last year after 89 days in the Schengen Area, and I had a wonderful time.

Also to the east you have Russia ($$$ visa required), Ukraine, Belarus, Armenia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, and Cyprus. Morocco's another obvious option since it's so conveniently reached from Spain.

As we learned yesterday when another poster asked specifically about the UK, the usual time allowance there is 6 months.

If you click on individual country names to the left of the map on the website I've linked to, you'll see a summary of the country's basic visa requirements. (Again, for definitive information you need to go to an official website for the appropriate country.) Those requirements tend to be rather onerous. I've met an Australian couple who obtained a long-stay visa for Italy in 2015. They told me it took 3 or 4 trips to the Spanish consulate before they managed to submit all the required documentation. At the least, you should expect to be asked for proof of fairly substantial financial assets and medical-insurance coverage. Often you will need to show a long-term lease, which really doesn't fit well with the concept of traveling around. The long-stay Schengen visa is not intended for tourists, it seems.

If you're really flush, Google "golden visa Europe". It won't be cheap.

Posted by
6640 posts

"Pick two locales - one in Schengen zone and one out of it, then move back and forth every 89 days."

This is what I wasn't eager to commit to, but it may be the end game. Paradise is indeed a minor paradise of a certain, sort and I wouldn't leave it in the dust... we'll keep the house there... but the idea was to get somewhere and stay there for maybe 4-10 months in order to become part of a neighborhood/community, learn some (or additional) language skills, acculturate, etc. and to turn Paradise into the "extended vacation" spot for the remainder of the year. Then the next year do the same. And maybe the year after that as well.

So thanks all for the thoughtful comments. I'll follow up later today and tomorrow. More comments gratefully accepted.

Posted by
7667 posts

I have lived in Germany (4 years), Saudi Arabia (5) and traveled to 70 countries on the six unfrozen continents.

One thing that you need to understand about living in a foreign country is that it will not be like going there for a vacation.

Even if you speak the local language or are prepared to get by otherwise, you will find that living there has more small and sometimes large complications. Nothing that you can't overcome, but just know that other countries will be different. Living in Germany, in an apartment, we learned that we couldn't flush the toilet or take a shower after 11PM, because that would tick off some of the neighbors. Opening a savings account in Germany back in the early 80's had so much red tape, I almost decided not to do it.
In Germany, all residents have to register with the police, so they can keep tabs on you.
Still, we loved much about Germany, the people are efficient, friendly and can be helpful, just don't get in their way on the autobahn.
Don't get me wrong, we loved living there for four years, but is different.

As far as locations that are relatively inexpensive, consider South America. Chile is a stable country with a standard of living that is similar to southern Europe. We know a couple that is retired and lives in Ecuador and say the people are great and it is very inexpensive to live there, but there are adjustments.

I love Argentina, but that country has serious economic and political problems that might keep me away. A fair number of Americans live in Panama, Costa Rica and Nicaragua. My only concern about t hose countries is that the drug cartels have seriously harmed the northern central american countries as well as most of Mexico.

For Europe, consider Croatia or Slovenia. Cost of living is lower and the people are great. I love Portugal, even more than Spain, but of course you would have to leave for extended periods. The UK is great, but expensive and the weather is not so great.

Australia is wonderful, but they are picky about who they let live there.

Posted by
2114 posts

Russ,

I'm wondering (potentially along with you and your wife) if anyone reading your posting has lived in Ireland on an extended basis. Positives? Negatives? Differences? And, like anywhere, I would guess which city, town, village would make a difference in experiences.

This is a very interesting thread, and thank you for posting it.

Posted by
15006 posts

Russ, I'm sort of living the life you are talking about.

I have no permanent home and just travel. When I am at home base, near my storage unit, doctors, dentist, etc., I stay in an extended stay hotel.

If you are not looking for a permanent residence then visas are not a problem.

The first thing you have to do is figure out your budget. Unless you plan to eat really cheaply and stay in hostels, travel can get expensive.

There are websites out there for people who travel full time but most are geared towards the under 30, I only wear t-shirts, hostel crowd. You can pick up some ideas from them. There are some website of older folks who travel but they are more like travelogues rather than talking about how they do things.

There are some websites for expats, like "International Living." But that doesn't sound like something that you are interested in.

One last thing....traveling full time is not like taking a 2, 3 or 4 week vacation. It can get tiring. You can get sick of hotels. (For the record, this Christmas I will be in hotels for 1000 straight nights.) There will be times when you will crave some down time. For me, in Europe, that is a particular hotel in London where they know me, I know a lot about the people that work there, and they sort of look after me. I'm there now and if I want to do nothing, I can. And I don't feel guilty. It's my R & R.

Posted by
14507 posts

In the past "they" used to say "culture shock," those aspects of life over there such as in Germany, France, etc which are part and parcel of the cultural cues. I know of three couples living as expats, two of them retired, one couple outside of Europe, ie Hong Kong.

The other two in Europe are fluent in the local language, German, ie know it so well as if they were speaking English, one of the guys having lived the bulk of his life here (we met in college) never applied for US citizenship regardless of his service in the US Army. Both these couples up and left Calif. . One lives in Austria in a medium size town, has a white collar job in computers even though he is an American citizen. Of course, they put up with the mundane, day to day, things, just as if a German or French were to emigrate here. I know French who lived a period of time( one to three years) in Germany and said the "culture shock" upon arrival, etc was way less than what they encountered coming to Calif. Both were adept or fluent in German and English., it was not just a matter of language.

Posted by
6640 posts

@geovagriffith: DW and I have both lived in Germany previously for a year at different times - we'd like to try someplace new. Chile is not a place I'd thought of, but one that looks to have potential and will get some investigation. (We'd likely travel to a place like that first for a couple of weeks to get our own impressions before launching for a longer period.)

@Frank II: I was interested in doing what you're doing a couple decades ago - very adventurous. We once called a storage unit our "home base" for a month while vagabonding around, but the idea this time is to be temporary residents abroad - no itinerary, no hotels, just lots of "down time" and probably one small apartment for several months - I apologize for using "vagabonding" to refer to our motivations and plans - that was misleading.

@Beth: Politics aren't part of our motivation - we've had the notion to do something like this for a good while now - and we have no intention of changing our citizenship status. Italy probably isn't on our radar but Portugal, where we've traveled only briefly, might just be. Thanks for the suggestion.

@ acraven: The "golden passport" for Portugal sounded pretty interesting... A €500k piece of Portuguese property might require a good bit more preliminary investigation than we've done. (I'm not telling DW about the €250K real estate ticket to Greek residency quite yet. She'd be packing tonight and calling a realtor in the morning.)

Really appreciate all the suggestions, tips and links thus far... thanks.

Posted by
32209 posts

Frank II,

"traveling full time is not like taking a 2, 3 or 4 week vacation. It can get tiring. You can get sick of hotels."

I know what you mean. Although I've never travelled for longer periods as you're doing, I've found that two months is about my limit. At that point I start experiencing "travel fatigue" and hotels are no longer the treat they were at the beginning of the trip. I start to look forward to sleeping in my own bed and getting back to my normal routine. While I enjoy travel immensely, "there's no place like home".

Posted by
8942 posts

If you go to The Local, they have forums for each country that they report news from. These forums are made up mainly of expats that live in those respective countries and can be invaluable sources of information. The one in Germany is Toytown and has a huge membership of English speakers from around the world.
http://www.thelocal.de/
http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/

There is also Internations which is a world wide website for expats. If you want to join, message me with your email and I will send you an invitation. The information on this website is excellent for any English speaker who is moving to or living in another country.

Posted by
2466 posts

It's distressing to find out how outdated most ex-pat forums and blogs are - many are not even dated.
I've been in Paris for 10 years, full-time - it isn't easy living in a foreign country, especially if you don't know anyone (or worse, if you latch on to people who insist on living in an ex-pat bubble where they don't assimilate).

Wherever you end up, you should make an effort to learn the language and the culture. Though most cities will have service people who speak English, if you live in the country or intend to purchase property, it will be much more difficult for you, and it's easy to feel closed off from the rest of the world.

I'd recommend doing a lot of research before you decide where you want to settle down, then coming for a month or two, to see if it's a good fit.

Jumping around every 89 days is a royal pain - and can be expensive. I'd find a good home base, then take trips from there.

You'll also have to consider things like FATCA regulations, opening bank accounts and moving money around, etc.

Posted by
331 posts

I have also been considering purchasing some property in Europe to use as a base. Kind of like the snowbirds here in the NE. Spend the bulk of time here but the colder months in Florida of somewhere warm. I love where i currently live but also love Europe. I don't want to move permanently, just want a base of operations in Europe.
Does anyone know about home ownership in Europe for a part-timer? Thanks for this post. I'll be looking at the links.

Posted by
2466 posts

Part-time home ownership is a good idea if you can have someone else responsible living full-time in your property while you are away. Leaving your property empty is an invitation for thieves and the possibility that a pipe could break, etc.

Many cities and individual buildings (co-ops) prohibit leasing your property as a short-term rental. The by-laws of the co-op will be given to you and all the information about what you can and cannot do while occupying your property are explained in great detail. But real estate agents will be happy to take your money while "forgetting" to mention these facts.

Most places will require renovation, which takes much longer than planned and will cost more than you had budgeted. Property taxes will probably be less than what you pay now - in France, there are two: taxe d'habitation and taxe fonciere.

If you live in an apartment, you will be responsible for paying your share of the upkeep of the whole building, which can be expensive. You'll need to insure your property as a condition of the sale.

You should absolutely have a reliable real estate agent who will translate the contract in full for you. You'll pay the notaire to register the sale. You will need a French bank account because most bills are paid by direct withdrawal. If you're American, you'll have to deal with FATCA regulations.

And when the time comes to sell your piece of paradise, a whole lot more money will go out the window.

I'd recommend trying out the place you have in mind for a couple of months, before you decide whether or not you want to call it home.
Then ask around for a reliable bi-lingual real estate agent.

Posted by
6640 posts

acraven: "Those requirements tend to be rather onerous." So I see. Looks like Croatia (one of my top-rung candidates based on our trip there last year) will be Schengen in 2018 but what's in place there NOW looks heavily bureaucratic and daunting for folks with plans like mine. (A shame that other countries don't brush off tourist-visa overstays the way my country does.) Also am thinking that real estate ownership, in my own language and culture, with my own body of experience, and with a fair understanding of how to make things go right, is stressful enough - just don't want the extra stress that would come with the uncertainty of owning property abroad. Probably no golden visa for me on the horizon. I'll keep leafing through the options. Thanks for all the resources.

Posted by
650 posts

I've been enjoying the travels of this Canadian couple, http://bbqboy.net. They move every month or two, which is not what you want. But they gives detailed city reviews complete with line item budgets. The reviews are recent and dated.

Posted by
650 posts

James should be popping in soon to discuss buying apartments in Budapest.