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Alternative to Berlin

Hi there,
My wife and I enjoy different things when we go to Europe and she was really interested in going to Berlin because she is done with “old stuff” meaning she doesn’t want to go back to Rome or Florence for a few years. Here’s my dilemma, as I said she was interested in Berlin because she was interested in seeing WWII historic sites, but last night I showed her Rick’s show on Berlin and she now doesn’t want to go. She thought Berlin would have more artifacts from the 40’s even if it was ruins. Can you tell me if there are any of those things that we didn’t see on Rick’s Berlin episode or if not do you know of another city we might visit in Europe that has WWII historical sites other than London where we have been twice already. Thanks in advance for your input.

Posted by
5687 posts

I agree that there aren't many standing WWII historic buildings to visit in Berlin - there is more cold war stuff (a few remaining pieces of the wall). But it was still interesting to me to visit SPOTS of significance - like the spot (now an apartment parking lot) where Hitler's bunker was where he killed himself at the end of the war. There's literally nothing to see other than a small plaque marking the spot - blink and you'd miss it.

One thing I enjoyed near Berlin was visiting Potsdam and the Cecilienhof Palace, the site of the famous Potsdam Conference at the end of the war. (The "palace" is more of a big mansion and is barely 100 years old.) You can tour the palace and see the famous room where Stalin, Truman, and Churchill (later Attlee) hammered out agreements about the end of the war - and where the Cold War may have begun. The famous table they all sat around is still there, just as it was. Standing there for a while, I got chills imagining the Big Three leaders sitting around it, with their interpreters, bantering back and forth, Churchill giving another long speech, etc.

If you just want World War II historic sites, there are plenty outside of Germany - e.g. the D-Day beaches in Normandy which are well worth seeing if you've not seen them already. Normandy is beautiful countryside too.

Posted by
20343 posts

If you're looking for WW II remnants, look no further than the Kaiser Wilhelm Kirche. The Reichstag is another.

Posted by
5687 posts

Krakow is a wonderful city as well, charming in addition to being historic. Unlike Berlin, Krakow was largely spared bombing damage during the war, so what you see today is pretty authentic. There's a fantastic WWII museum in Krakow called the Museum of Krakow under the Nazi occupation (housed at "Oskar Schindler's Factory" - the museum has almost nothing to do with Schindler however). It's a modern museum dedicated just to Krakow during the war. I don't usually care for museums, but I really enjoyed this one.

Of course, there's Auschwitz nearby...

Posted by
11613 posts

Germany has been careful not to leave potential "shrines" to the Nazi period.

Topography of Terror, Minumennt to the Murdered Jews of Europe, the Synagogue and museum, are just a few sites.

Nurnberg has the Documentation Center, Nazi Parade Grounds, the courtroom of the Trials...

Posted by
476 posts

Fred and others who post often on the Germany forum need to respond, but if you posed this question to one of the many excellent guides in Berlin, the answer would be how many days do you have. Is there any other place in Germany that comes close to Berlin in remembering and honoring the victims of the Holocaust? There is the German History Museum, the Topography of Terror, the German Resistance Museum, the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe, the Platform 17 Memorial, the simple Rosenstrasse protest memorial, the Reichstag building, the Olympic Stadium, the old Luftwaffe building, the site of Hitler's bunker, and the countless stumbling stones marking the arrest of Jews from their homes and businesses. And then there are certainly sites associated with the Soviet conquest of Berlin.

It has been repeatedly said that one goes to Berlin not to see, but to try to understand. It's true.

Posted by
4156 posts

The German History Museum is a must . As it is arranged in chronological order , you could take a lead from Fred , and begin at a point which would be suitable for your level of interest , and allotted time ( we spent a full day there , which was hardly enough ) . With a full week at your disposal , I would strongly recommend a day trip , just outside Berlin ( to the west ) , to visit The House of The Wannsee Conference . This is a Museum , as well as a memorial , that tells the story of the infamous meeting in January 1942 where Senior Nazi officials devised the " Final Solution " which resulted in the extermination of some six million European Jews ( as well as many others , deemed by the Third Reich as " untermenschen " . It is a singularly powerful experience . Read about it here , and I hope you fit this into your visit - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

Posted by
503 posts

You can also see the spot where the book burning took place. And, about 22 miles outside of berlin is the Sachsenhausen concentration camp. WIth all the above suggestions, I really think your wife can find what she is looking for, but in addition, find the very vibrant city that Berlin has become. Look at prewar pictures of Potsdamer PLatz and then go visit it at night, the transformation is amazing.

Posted by
6635 posts

Not surprising that there are few "ruins" from WWII in Berlin or, really, anywhere in Europe. Many bombed cities were rebuilt after the war, sadly not as beautifully. Rebuilding restored economic value and erased reminders of that terrible time. Preserving some of the camps and other Holocaust-related sights was a far-sighted decision to prevent forgetting events that mustn't happen again.

Cities behind the former Iron Curtain may have more of the prewar buildings than those in western Europe, simply because not much of value got built under Soviet occupation. Those ugly, deteriorating Soviet-era buildings are themselves historical reminders, though not so much of WWII. Budapest is a good example of this different contrast.

Posted by
14580 posts

@ Joe...If you really want to invest the time and energy in seeing literally ruins from the war and the Soviet presence/occupation, etc, there is one place that comes to mind. This is at Berlin-Krampnitz...the Panzerschule, (the site of armoured troops' training school). It's located between Grunewald and Potsdam.

There are numerous war sites I would suggest in Berlin...The Invalidenfriedhof , ca a 30 mins walk from Berlin Hbf. It is the oldest and most prestigious of the Prussian-German military cemeteries with its WW1 and 2 sections. If you know the history, you'll immediately recognise the names of those buried there...Eichorn, Hoffmann, Seeckt, Scharnhorst (his statue along with that of Blücher is near the Berliner Dom), Schlieffen, Fritsch, etc.

In the west on Heerstrasse ( a main street) is the RAF War Cemetery of British airmen shot down over Berlin...very grim and poignant.

If you want to see a battlefield memorial site, go to Seelow, the site of the biggest battle fought ever fought on German soil when the Soviets launched their massive attack on Berlin in 1945, only to be thrown back at the Seelow Heights on the first horrific day. The site is a memorial museum (Gedenkstätte Seelower Höhen) and the Soviet cemetery. You take the train from Berlin Hbf to Frankfurt an der Oder, then the S-Bahn to Seelow. Yes, in a way you are backtracking.

How much time /days in Berlin are you devoting to tracking down WW2 sites? There is more I can suggest.

Posted by
5371 posts

Have you considered Warsaw? There's a mix of the old, not so old and WW2 history not least the incredible Warsaw Uprising Museum. The Old Town, whilst completely razed during the war was built up from scratch using old architecture documents, drawings and paintings and it looks almost exactly as it did before the war. It's a nice antidote to the Soviet architecture and the modern buildings. There's also a very good museum devoted to the Jewish history and some excellent art museums not to mention the food is undergoing an amazing revival and has been some of the best I've eaten in Europe and for very good prices.

I'd also consider Budapest for very similar reasons.

Don't be put off by Berlin though, it's a great city and has much to offer. How long are you going for? It may be possible to make the trip one of multiple cities in order to achieve a good balance of what interests you both.

Posted by
16894 posts

Like everywhere, Berlin's history is easier to appreciate with more information. Rick's new Berlin guidebook has considerably expanded coverage of the city, for instance including more self-guided city walks and museum tours, a typical difference between our full-sized city guides and country guides. If you don't yet have that book, see his suggested Berlin itinerary and some additional article links. The rapid refresh of the city over the past 25+ years is part of what makes Berlin an exciting destination for many of us.

Posted by
14580 posts

@ Joe....Be advised that Berlin is not a city having ONLY those sites connected with WW2 and Nazi era, ie, Bebelplatz, the Soviet War Cemetery in Pankow and Treptow, and sites listed above, there are also, which I know you didn't ask for specifically, numerous sites on, related to Prussian history. Like the WW2 sites you have to know where to track them down.

Posted by
6758 posts

"...do you know of another city we might visit in Europe that has WWII historical sites..."

WW II Nuremberg:
https://tourismus.nuernberg.de/en/discover/museums/location/dokumentationszentrum-reichsparteitagsgelaende/
https://tourismus.nuernberg.de/en/discover/museums/location/memorium-nuernberger-prozesse/

Nuremberg makes for a nice visit on other grounds as well if your focus is the last 100 years or so. How about the Museum of Industrial Culture? https://tourismus.nuernberg.de/en/discover/museums/science-technology-museums/location/museum-industriekultur/

Other unusual museum options:
https://tourismus.nuernberg.de/en/discover/museums/unusual-museums/

The beer culture is prominent here too. Nice pubs.
https://www.europeanbeerguide.net/nurnpubs.htm