Airline seats - to recline or not to recline? - the reaction one passenger got

Quite the kerfuffle.

So, if I’m on a short flight, I don’t recline. But when we are flying overseas/overnight, I have to go back an inch or so, otherwise my back will be screaming. So should I be uncomfortable to keep someone else happy?

Now, on our last half dozen overseas flights, I’ve paid anywhere from $50-100 for preferred seating, exit row or bulkhead. I’ll even pay to choose my seats on the short hauls because I don’t want to be stuck at the back. I’m a spendthrift so it pains me to do it, and we aren’t even tall but my husband says....don’t even ask me, just get the extra legroom seats. If you don’t want to pay extra to get a seat with some legroom or not end up in the row that doesn’t recline, that’s on you. I realize that sometimes it might be a last minute flight and that’s what you get, but that’s no way to act. Also...would he have done this had it been a man in front of him? People should just try being polite, and yes, maybe she should have put the seat back up a smidge...but folks who say you should never ever recline...I’m glad you have a good back!

I don’t ever recline my seat, and to be honest, I overall find it inconsiderate when the person in front of me does it, and especially when it happens without them asking or looking back. I always, always say yes. I’ve had my laptop hit hard before, by the seat reclining, so I’d rather be asked and prepare for it. And yes, I have a good back, but I would 100% support being uncomfortable myself for someone with a medical condition!

I think the guy hitting her seat was way, way, way out of line, and I’m shocked that he wasn’t stopped immediately and that a flight attendant didn’t intervene to deescalate. That said, I have a super hard time believing that he just started doing that out of the blue and was rewarded for his behavior with a drink? Am I naive to think people aren’t generally huge jerks for no reason? Me thinks there’s probably more to the story...or maybe I’m wrong and the general public really is that unhinged?

As a seat mate, thinking about this situation, I’d like to think that would have offered to trade seats with the lady, and sat in front of the guy that didn’t want the seat reclined (as I don’t recline my seat) just to stop the BS. However, maybe I would have just been afraid to say anything since it felt like a super tense situation.

Well said Nicole - and personally, I doubt that the passenger would have pulled that [stunt] if the reclining passenger had been a fellow man.

I think he acted like a jerk. The attendants should have talked to him. I’ll recline unless doing so hits another’s knees.

The guy is most definitely the south end of a northbound mule.

I teach elementary school and even my youngest students know better than to behave in such a rude way!! I don’t like it when people recline in front of me (I don’t sleep on planes, so I don’t usually recline), but I recognize it’s their right. I’m always afraid someone is going to recline and the drink on my tray is going to spill all over me! :):)

Bottom line is this is ALL because of airlines' greed - cramming in too many seats and reducing the size.

Yes the guy is a jerk and maybe the woman, too. But the blame belongs solely with the airlines!

He’s a jerk. If he wanted more room, he should have coughed up the money for an upgraded seat. It’s her and our choice to recline or not. My back comfort will always take precedent for the seat I pay for.

I don't generally recline my seat on Conus flights unless I'm in upgraded seating (economy comfort or above) and don't get too annoyed at the person who does in front of me unless they slam the seat back with no warning. On a transatlantic I pay for at least economy comfort and take every inch I paid for.

I too think there may be more to this. Why did they give him a drink?

Conus flights

Learned a new term today. (In case I was not the only one unfamiliar with it CONtiguos United States)

It seems like giving him a drink would only make his behavior worse. Unless there's something we don't know, the flight attendant needs to be disciplined.

Yes the guy is a jerk and maybe the woman, too. But the blame belongs solely with the airlines!

No, the blame does not rest solely with the airlines. As has been mentioned on this forum (and many others) in the past, we (the flying public as a whole) have loudly and repeatedly told the airlines that the lowest price is the main--usually sole--deciding factor when purchasing a plane ticket. Airlines have tried offering more room at a somewhat higher price (see AA's Main Cabin Extra, as an example) and have failed. The only way the airlines can compete given the buying public's demands of ever lower prices is to cram more seats in and offer fewer services ('unbundling'). If, starting right now, the flying public as a whole changed their buying patterns, the airlines would give us more room. We won't (at least so far), so they haven't.

I do agree the guy pounding on the chair is a jerk and the FA should have put a stop to it.

I prefer that you don’t recline because I usually can’t see the in flight screen very well, my progressive lenses make it very hard to see things at that angle. I had someone do that a couple of years ago, tried to explain to the person in front of me in English and Spanish who pretended he couldn’t understand. So ,I ended up listening to the in flight music options heading home.

Eric...I do agree mostly...if people wanna be cheap, have the cheapest tickets, then this is the result. No sense acting like a crazy person, but that’s the world today.

I’d love for both sides of the story to come out.

I suspect there is more to this story than has been reported. If he was hitting her seatback and the attendants rewarded him with a drink, then my guess is they knew something more than this woman reported. In any case, something seems to have made this escalate, and neither party seems to have been behaving well.

But just addressing some common positions:

"I need to recline because of my back." Perhaps, but my guess is people with bad backs sit in upright chairs all the time. Also, the person behind you may need the leg room.

"If a person wants more space, they should buy premium tickets." Fair enough sounding, but sometimes those seats are filled. Maybe if you want to recline, buy a premium seat so that it doesn't infringe on the person behind you.

"I bought my ticket, I get to recline." Common decency says to be considerate of other people. If your reclining imposes on someone else, think about whether you "need" to or if you are just being inconsiderate.

"People should never recline." On long flights, get used to it. People will want to relax and nap and be just a tiny bit more comfortable.

"It's the airlines fault." Airlines cram people onto planes to keep fares low and maximize profits. If people want more space, they will (and do) pay for it. Premium seating is pretty popular, especially on longer flights.

I actually wish shorthaul planes would not have reclining seats. Everyone suffers equally. I'm not sure how realistic that is since planes fly different routes, but really almost any domestic flight is not long enough to have someone "need" to recline.

Unhinged? Maybe. Too much testosterone? Maybe. Too much alcohol? Maybe. Are any of those legitimate excuses? No.

I've been on hundreds of flights, many different planes, many airlines, foreign and domestic. Not one person sitting in front of me has ever asked me or looked around before reclining. I don't recline my seat, no matter where it is, no matter the length of the flight, because the angle hurts my back.

I respect the right of others to do so, no matter where they sit, but it would be considerate to warn me before they do it. It's particularly annoying and possibly dangerous when they go back as far as they possibly can all of a sudden.

Not knowing how this all began, no matter how she reclined or how fast, that's no excuse for the guy to hit the back of her seat like that.

To handle it I'd probably count to 10, raise the seat back up, punch the flight attendant button, explain my medical challenges, tell what was happening and ask that I be moved to a safer seat. If that was impossible due to the Economy status or a full flight, I'd ask the flight attendant to arbitrate the situation.

No matter the class, if the seats recline, the people in them should be able to recline them. One way to prevent this kind of thing is to have seats that do not recline in really tight areas.

Give me a seat that reclines, and I recline. Period.

Bottom line is this is ALL because of airlines' greed - cramming in
too many seats and reducing the size.

No, it's the passengers greed. Wanting more than they can afford. I'm 6 foot, when the guy in front of me reclines, its manageable for me. Cause I am about to do it to the guy behind me. Sometimes, if the guy behind me is huge, I dont. But that's my choice. And most airlines will ask you to bring it up at meal time and that makes sense.

Count me among those he who think the guy is a jerk. There is never a reason to treat someone like that... and I agree with those who opine/imply that he would not punch the seat if a man was sitting in front of him.

I never recline except on overnight flights, but it doesn't bother me when others recline. Full disclosure, though... I fly enough that I have access to Economy Comfort Plus and exit row seats without additional cost when I fly economy.

No, the blame does not rest solely with the airlines. As has been
mentioned on this forum (and many others) in the past, we (the flying
public as a whole) has loudly and repeatedly told the airlines that
the lowest price is the main--usually sole--deciding factor when
purchasing a plane ticket.

Correct. If Spirit, with its industry-low 28-inch pitch, went bankrupt because passengers refused to buy its product, you would have more leg room on your favorite carrier. Unfortunately, Spirit is the US's fastest growing airline.

I'll never forget a Trans-Atlantic flight on Air France where the individual in front of me reclined his seat within 5 minutes of take-off and left it that way the entire flight. I was in pain. My knees had bruises for about a week. To add insult to injury, I peeked around the seat at one point to find him leaning forward in his seat to watch a movie.

I would never pound on a seat, but I can understand the temptation......

I pay more for better seats now.

“Age old debate” is right.

My son and i were on a United non-stop flight from San Francisco to Paris... 10 hr flight... my son tried to recline his seat and the man behind him prevented it with his knees. We called the flight attendant. She very sternly told the man he was not allowed to prevent someone from reclining their seat and his behavior would not be tolerated.

I have no problem with people reclining their seat.

I was on a Trans-Atlantic flight on Air France a few years ago. About 5 minutes after we took off I reclined the seat to sleep (it was the third flight of the day and I was exhausted). The lady behind me began complaining to everyone around her. Before long I could hear 3 or 4 passengers saying terrible things about me. Then the woman called the flight attendant and complained. The flight attendant essentially told her to deal with it. As the flight attendant left she patted me on the shoulder as is to say, its okay. All the fuss kept me awake so I leaned forward to watch a movie. More complaining ensued. More passengers were outraged. Finally they moved the lady to another seat. Now, she was about 5'-5". I am a full 6' and other than a little claustrophobia the seat in front of me being reclined has never been a problem except at meal time, and at meal time they make everyone put their seat up. Oh, one funny aside. The young lady in the seat next to me, about half way through the flight, folded up the arm rest and stretched her legs out across my lap. We both slept well.

Some of us can barely afford the flight let alone any kind of upgrade, so frankly, this is annoying when people flippantly tell you to just pay more for a better seat. What if I told you to just go ahead and fly a day earlier and get a hotel room to catch up on the sleep you are missing?

I never recline my seat, since I am a grown-up and can stand to sit upright in my seat for 7-8 hours. It just is not that bad.
Now for those people behind me that want to stick their knees in my back so they can be comfortable, yet can't manage to sit still with their knees for more than a minute at a time, on these folks I would recline my seat.

James, I know your intent is to be funny. However, when I shared a real experience, I didn’t appreciate being made fun of. Maybe try some other direction with your humor.

In the grand scheme of taking a flying holiday and all the expenses that incurs, is paying $25-30 to at least choose your seat ahead of time (it doesn't even have to be an extra legroom seat) so you don't end up in the back row really that much more of an expense?

But the airlines have really taken a liking to the extra fees - when we first flew in '08, and probably up until '12 - we had free seat selection with Air Canada - even overseas because I recall having an exit row seat on one of those flights and not paying for it. Then until around '16 or '17, they charged ~$50 for the preferred seats on overseas flights. Last year - it was anywhere from $100-110 for exit/bulkhead/preferred.

Our flights over are with WestJet this year, and for Halifax to Glasgow they were charging $34 cheapest/middle seats, $49 for I think aisle seats, and $93 for the extra legroom. I upgraded the ticket for the flight home (1st checked bag free) and the prices to seat select were $0/$60 (bulkhead)/$87 exit row. So even picking the cheapest, base air fare, paying $34 to select my seat when I'm paying $1000 for the ticket is negligible.

Not saying he acted correctly, but watch the video again and notice he can't recline his seat to get out of the way of her reclined seat. He should of asked if she wouldn't recline because his seat is stationary. She might have done so. If he did ask and she said no, then she had a right to recline, but IMO she was a little jerky for not understanding and cooperating.

I recline and I expect the person in front of me to recline. Try sitting for 16 hours without reclining. Good luck with that. Buy a more expensive seat? I flew millions of miles for my company. Beginning in the 90's they required us to fly baggage class. Often travel was booked at the last minute. We got what we got and sometimes it was totally awful. Straighten your seat for take-off, landing, meals and snack and if someone is getting in or out of the row. Otherwise recline it if you wish.
I am always amused by self righteous and indignant travelers who fly a few thousand miles a year trying to script behaviors for other people.

This seat shaker...wrong...but you know what triggered him? He booked his aisle seat weeks before the flight. The day of his flight he got notice that his first flight leg was delayed. That would cause him to miss his Paris flight out of Washington and his connection from Paris to Venice. After a mad scramble and an hour on the phone he changed his flights, rented a car and drove two hours to Newark where he boarded this flight. His seat assignments that he had spent hours cherry picking for the Washington flight were scrapped. Now he has a seat non-reclining seat next to the baggage class toilet. While the plane is climbing to altitude and 5 minutes after take-off the women in front of him hits the recline button and slams her seat back into him. So it begins. Been there, done that. Yeah....his reaction. Not good but there's only so much you can take. Make mine a bourbon. Only 7 more hours. Good that it's a short flight.

The last word:

" Reclining your airline seat is unacceptable.... It's rude – and it's wrong.."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/advice/2019/11/08/why-economy-passengers-should-stop-reclining-their-airline-seats/4158135002/

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/11/04/USAT/5498ce6e-7530-4d53-8565-bbe124438c61-GettyImages-599965188.jpg?width=660&height=440&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

If YOU have a medical condition that requires more space than the onus is on YOU to buy it in another class of service, not quite literally steal it from someone else.

Carol, it was an absolute real experience. Wasn't meant to be funny. Sorry. Your starting sentence reminded me of it. Even the young lady stretching out across my lap was for real (very strange, but real). When food service came the flight attendant asked if I wanted to wake my daughter. When I said I had never met the girl, the attendant looked shocked and offered to wake her and put her back in her seat. I said let her sleep, we are almost there.

If YOU have a medical condition that requires more space than the onus
is on YOU to buy it in another class of service, not quite literally
steal it from someone else.

Tom_MN, I agree with you 100%! If you need more room the onus is on you to buy it and not to try and steal it from the person sitting in front of you. The final word is out on the subject, and is reinforced daily. There are a hundred aspects of plane travel that are restricted or otherwise regulated by the airline or the government; reclining your seat isn't one of them. As long as they recline I take it as an invitation to do so and I accept that the person sitting in front of me received the same invitation; and we coexist in harmony.

I never recline my seat and I find it the height of inconsiderate behavior for anyone to recline their seat without asking, and receiving, permission from the individual whose space they are stealing. Frankly, I wish airlines would disable the ability of seats to recline.

But that height was scaled and surpassed one time on a flight from Paris to San Francisco when a middle-aged Indian woman in traditional clothing, who was sitting in the aisle seat behind me, elected to use my armrest as a footrest for her bare foot that she had slipped out of her sandal after getting comfortable in her seat. That didn't last long, but the fact that it happened at all still makes me shake my head. Different cultures, I just tell myself.

Sammy, I'm sure there are White Americans who would do the same thing.

Yes the guy is a jerk and maybe the woman, too. But the blame belongs
solely with the airlines!

I disagree that the airlines are solely to blame. You're responsible for your own behaviour and this guy's behaviour is inexcusable.

Eric's comment is my favourite so far;

As has been mentioned on this forum (and many others) in the past, we
(the flying public as a whole) have loudly and repeatedly told the
airlines that the lowest price is the main--usually sole--deciding
factor when purchasing a plane ticket.

If we want a company to change its behaviour, we must change our buying habits.

I think if everyone stopped always thinking about individual rights and started being considerate to those around them on the whole, these wouldn't be issues. I always check the size of the person behind me and if their seat is reclined. If they have reclined their seat or they are petite, I might recline. I only recline if the person in front of me does anyway, and not always. I do probably annoy that person when I get out of my seat though because if they are reclined, the angle to get out of my aisle seat is awkward and I need to use the top of their seat to steady myself. So not all interaction is passive aggressive on a flight or intending to be mean, just necessary. Bottom line is that it is not a big deal for me to sit upright on a 6-7 hour flight. I just close my eyes and listen to my book.

I wonder if the man asked the woman to not recline or if she reclined while he was eating? We might not see what set him off. Nonetheless, there is no obvious excuse for his behavior and if he received a free drink then I suspect he wasn't seen as the instigating party OR the FAs were trying to chill him out because he was erratic. Who knows? Que sera, sera.

I never recline my seat, and find it a violation of my space when the person in front reclines. I am slightly on the tall side - 5'11", and my legs are long. My knees are chronically painful, and I need all the space I can get. When the person in front reclines, it is a direct problem for my knees. Usually I just resign myself to it. I have been tempted to get one of those devices which can be used to prevent reclining.

I never recline my seat, and find it a violation of my space when the
person in front reclines. I am slightly on the tall side - 5'11", and
my legs are long. My knees are chronically painful, and I need all the
space I can get. When the person in front reclines, it is a direct
problem for my knees. Usually I just resign myself to it. I have been
tempted to get one of those devices which can be used to prevent
reclining.

You don't own the space, the airline owns the space. You are renting it. You are renting it on their terms. The terms of the rental include the reclining seats. You don't have to rent the space with the limited clearances, you have choices. You have no rights other than those of your contract with the airline, someone reclining the seat in front of you is not a violation of anything you contracted for. Can it be inconsiderate? Sure. But that's a world of difference from someone violating your space. If you need more space, buy it, but don't think someone else owes you what they purchased; and they purchased a reclining seat. And those devices are illegal and will get you thrown off the plane.

Interesting that on my last flight over, about 4 weeks ago, when I got up int he middle of the night to take a walk I noticed the majority of the people had reclined their seats. I noticed, because my past experience was on my mind and I was amazed I got so much flack on that one flight for what a majority of the people do. I sort of think the protesters are in the minority by a large margin. That would explain why the airlines haven't changed their policies. Because most of us will put up with a little inconvenience in the front for a little more comfort in the back.

This video does not show the full picture. It does not show whether the man asked the woman to return her seat to the upright position, it doesn't show whether she asked him if it was OK to recline, it doesn't show whether there was any pain or discomfort arising out her reclining her seat, in fact the video is very one sided.

I'm 6' 3" and whilst I fly long haul in business or first I will fly economy if a flight is less than 4 hours. Fortunately most intra Europe flights aren't equipped with reclining seats although there are still a few older aircraft operating that do (I'm looking at you British Airways!). When someone reclines their seat in front of me then I am trapped. I can't use my tray (not just for eating but also for using my laptop or tablet), my knees are crushed and it's extremely uncomfortable and actually dangerous. On one occasion a woman reclined without asking or checking that it was OK to do so, I asked her repeatedly to return her seat to the upright position and explained why but she would have none of it. Eventually I complained to a passing member of crew who eventually persuaded her to return her seat upright.

I can't imagine that there are many medical conditions that result in not being able to sit upright for 4 hours and particularly at the expense of pain, discomfort and potentially lethal DVT for the passenger behind. If your medical condition is so bad that you feel entitled to subject the person behind you, particulalrly if they're tall, to such an ordeal then you should consider whether flying is suitable for you.

My knees are chronically painful, and I need all the space I can get.
When the person in front reclines, it is a direct problem for my knees

I'm 6'2" and would prefer the seat in front of me didn't recline either, but playing the devil's advocate; what if I've got a bad back and the only way to ease the pain was to recline. What takes precedence, your knees or my back?

I'm enjoying this discussion. I usually don't recline, and I'm short enough to handle it when somebody wants his/her head close to my lap.

But, on my Saturday morning flight to JFK last weekend, the man in the aisle seat behind mine told my friend that she needed to close the window. He didn't ask very nicely, but she complied with his demand. I decided to recline my seat. I showed him!

He was the only one in his row - so he could have slid over if it bothered him too much.

Let the shaming begin!

I am taking a hardliner approach only because people are screaming about their rights .... they don't have any more right over the seat in front of them than they have a right to fee university or fee health care.

Generally speaking, if i observe some exceptional situation I wouldn't push the seat back ... or I would look for another seat where I would feel socially comfortable leaning back.

I lean around to the person behind me and say I am going to recline my seat now, so that they get a warning.
I do it in small increments.
Everyone should raise their seats during a meal service.
If the person in front of me does not, or will not; then I call the FA to ask them to raise their seat up while we all eat.
It would be an act of kindness if we all made eye contact with the person in front of us and behind us, and asked or warned before reclining.
I know….in a perfect world. :O

I agree that you paid to recline, but there are ways of doing it without upsetting people.

Lots of strong opinions by some posters.

Basically, we have gotten to the point in life that, other than the short 2-3 hour flights when one can almost endure just about any seat or seat mates, we will not fly on a long flight without having Main Cabin Extra (or whatever each brand calls it), the exit row, or Business Class (if we can find a very good price).......and yep, you read it correctly, we will NOT fly unless we have every reason to believe we would be reasonably comfortable.

That said, some of the other posters have referenced those situations when one carefully plans, but airline cancelled flights, missed connections or re-routing causes one to lose their original seat selections. And, we have likely all been in the situation of weather/equipment delays and gawd-awful situations when we just want to "click our heels" and get back home (or to our vacation destination to meet a tour/cruise, etc.), even if we have to sit in the airplane toilet (kidding) JUST to get home!! Exceptions happen!!!

But, when reclining, I do small increments at time (not during meals), and typically, I will kindly ask the person behind me if they mind if I recline a smidge (typically the answer is great appreciation of my asking).

Few posters answered the question of: "How would you handle this?" (what happened to the lady), realizing none of us saw the entire event unfold.

I would turn around and make kind eye contact with the person with an apology (even if it is my right to recline) and ask if he needed to move a computer before I recline (or would like to change seats with me), explaining my need to recline (if I had whatever medical issue she did), etc. OR, even better, I would likely (before making eye contact) push the button for the flight attendant and wait for him/her to arrive..............or, instead, go to find the nearest flight attendant and explain truthfully what just happened (did I recline too quickly, etc.?).....so the flight attendant would be hearing from ME very kindly about my concern and have the chance to offer another seat (if one was available).

But, gosh, I have experienced the person in front of me who declined meal service, then SLAM reclined full force and full recline on to my tray table!! I am 5'11" (mostly legs) and have had the seat back come down on my knees......I usually let out a muffled/painful "oh my God, my knees" kindly asking the person if they can bring their seat up a bit. I have experienced a row of seats reclined and an obese person at the window needing to get out (past the middle person and the aisle person) to go to the restroom (is that even physically possible with all the seats in the row ahead in recline in economy coach?) Makes it even worse when all of those in the seat ahead are sort of asleep and have to bring their seat backs up.

It is a tough call on what to do when someone invades your comfort, almost crushes your knees, or punches your seat because you have reclined...........but rights aside, as a few posters mentioned HUMAN KINDNESS should prevail.

Equally harsh in my opinion are those who grab the seat ahead of them to pull themselves up (and often awaken the kind person who has kindly NOT reclined), and then once they have pulled themselves up, the seat goes fling/fling/fling in the opposite direction. Unfortunately often (not always) those people are obese men, who do not have the upper body strength to use the armrests to hoist themselves up.

Jerks can be found in business class, but at least there is a bit more space among passengers. But, if tickets cost $10K each, we just pass on such trips and wait for a bargain to emerge.

Safe and courteous travels to all!!!!!

No doubt the guy is a jerk, I prefer labeling him worse. Since I always sit in Economy, the cheapest available regardless of its name according the particular carrier. the person behind me can expect me to recline.

That's a given. I always recline, if only just a wee bit, when I know someone is behind me. I do it discreetly.

Luckily, I have never had any pronounced jerks as depicted, jerk wanna-be types who objected when my seat was being reclined. Yes, I lucked out, even more so when on flights in 2017 and 2018 sitting towards the rear on Br Air where no one was behind me. Then I reclined that Economy seat to its max.

Since I do not select my seat on-line when purchasing the ticket, saving that choice until check-in, I ask at that time to be put in a seat towards the rear or the very rear where no one is behind me, depending on one's chances. More chances of reclining to the max then.

"I'm taking a hardliner approach...." Bravo. Valid points here.

Few posters answered the question of: "How would you handle this?"
(what happened to the lady), realizing none of us saw the entire event
unfold.

How would I handle this? Put the seat back and sleep. I've been in a similar situation and it worked just fine. Sooner or later they tire of being rude.

Gee - on the flight over starting my vacation, I'm so excited, I can deal with anything. On the flight home, I'm so sad, I don't care about anything except figuring out my next vacation!

But I have to agree with Wray "I think if everyone stopped always thinking about individual rights and started being considerate to those around them on the whole, these wouldn't be issues." -- Maybe it's a Massachusetts thing ;p)

But I have to agree with Wray "I think if everyone stopped always
thinking about individual rights and started being considerate to
those around them on the whole, these wouldn't be issues."

It's a Texas thing too.

As many have said on this thread, there’s more to the story. A longer-than-network-TV version of this video is on the Travel and Leisure website: https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/american-airlines-passenger-punching-reclined-seat

For those of us who take regional jets, the plane is an Embraer 175. In my experience, a pretty comfortable plane for the 3 hour flight in question, in economy. But if you get the last seat in the rear, even if it’s an aisle seat, it’s limited recline, and of course the man was disappointed that he had booked/accepted this seat.

The extended video shows that he had room for his tray table to be open during the flight, and that he was watching/ listening to videos on his phone which was placed on his open tray table. He did this while continuing to pound on the seat in front.

There is also information on this website that the woman did raise her seat during the food service, but reclined after it was over.

Since this man was clearly showing a lack of self control, I probably would have raised my seat back for the safety of the flight and to avoid any further escalation. Or ask the flight attendant to help in swapping seats with someone who did not need to recline. Passengers on these regional flights usually seem to be more neighborly and willing to help in my experience.

But overall, this is where we have to rely on the training and experience of the flight crews to diffuse these situations.

I rarely recline, not because I'm a wonderful person, but because I'm short. If I recline I have even less back/head support. My head is well below any (if there is one) head support. When people in front of me recline I usually can't see the seat back screen due to the angle or use my tray table....seems like a nasty thing to do to other passengers especially for a long haul flight.

Cala,
Thank you for your comment. I have no doubt you're correct, but there's no need for the implication contained within your comment. Perhaps it's unintentional, but it's there. I simply was sharing the details of what happened to me on that particular flight.

How would you handle this?

I’d notify the flight attendant and ask him/her to deal with the other passenger. No way would I myself confront someone who is being physically aggressively obnoxious on a plane; situations can morph way too quickly.

As for reclining my seat, you bet I do it, especially on long-haul flights. I don’t recline during meals, and when I do move the seat back, I do it slowly, but I don’t ask permission from the person behind me because I don’t think it’s their choice; it’s mine.

When the airlines stop installing reclining seat backs, I’ll stop reclining my seat.

Not a very accurate article referenced above, the flight is 2 hours not 3, there's a time change (duh). And then a tapping/rocking incident Jan 31 required spinal surgery within days? Not even remotely likely. Unless this poorly worded phrase has some other meaning, "she had a previously existing condition that she had to have neck surgeries and spinal fusions to treat since the incident. "

Well, despite all the differing opinions offered, at least we can all agree that reclining an airline seat in coach is theft.

Well, despite all the differing opinions offered, at least we can all
agree that reclining an airline seat in coach is theft.

No, preventing someone from reclining is theft.

Here is a Virgin Atlantic web page where they are marketing the amount that their Sears recline, so it is obviously being sold as a benefit to the passenger buying the seat. https://flywith.virginatlantic.com/gb/en/on-the-flight/cabin-and-seats/seat-comparison.html

I thought I read she straightened the seat when they 'served food' - do they actually serve food on a 2/3 hr flight? Or was that just misinformation? Or do the airlines I fly on short hauls just suck??! ;)

Blockquote
Well, despite all the differing opinions offered, at least we can all agree that reclining an airline seat in coach is theft.

No, we do not agree....read my post. I will recline whether you like it or not. I will be civilized about it and I'll hold off when you have your meal or snacks but expect me to be totally reclined the rest of the time. I'm sorry but you should expect it. I do. I've literally spend 10 hours at a time with my laptop jammed into me while I try to work and the person in front of me sleeps, reclined. The seats recline for your comfort. The TV's tilt so that you can watch them after the person in front of you reclines. They are designed for it.
What no one has mentioned yet is that reclining helps to keep pressure off of your rear end while you fly. Anyone who has flown as much as I have probably knows exactly what I am talking about. My body starts to ache in an airplane seat almost within minutes after sitting in one. Some seats are worse than others...the US made planes have far more uncomfortable seats that those made in Europe. Some of the Airbus planes slide the seat base forward when you recline. Seats recline so that you can recline them. And on the short hop flights, the seats don't recline so that they can save cabin space.
If you start shaking my seat I'll ask the attendant to speak to you. And when they figure out that I'm a legacy million miler I might tell them if they don't already know) and that you just joined their mileage program to get 2,000 miles, guess what.....they are going to side with me. That's the way the game is played.

I am with Mack. I paid for a seat that reclines and I will use it. Your ticket did not come with no recline restriction. It is not a question of being rude or polite. Beside most seats only move a couple of inches -- hardily call it a recline -- when compare to earlier days when seats actually recline five or six inches. The seat movement these days is almost impossible to tell it has been moved but for me every inch helps. And I don't have a lot of patients with people who complain about seats reclining. On a flight recently the passenger behind me made a big deal out of not reclining my seat so as to impact his "knee replacement." It was only a three hour so I could live with that. Midway through the flight I return from the restroom and noticed the he had reclined his seat. I wonder if I should have asked to see the scar. Think I was conned.

I thought I read she straightened the seat when they 'served food' - do they actually serve food on a 2/3 hr flight? Or was that just misinformation? Or do the airlines I fly on short hauls just suck??! ;)

I suspect that there was a quite a bit of misinformation, there normally is with such self released attention seeking videos.

The guy said he was eating, not that they were being served food.

According to seat guru, the most common E175 flown by American has a 30” seat pitch which is a crime. At this narrow pitch passengers are going to randomly start to strangle each other. There isn't enough space with 30" pitch to recline, and everybody should recognize this fact when they are sitting down. Note that the most recently "upgraded" Delta and United 737-900s also have 30" seat pitch.

On the flip side the Delta E175s flown by SkyWest out of Salt Lake City (and other hubs) have 32” seat pitch so everyone gets coach plus. It's a plane I seek out when flying Delta.

What I found most incredible, other than the guy punching the seat being a world-class something-hole, is the woman just sitting there bouncing back and forth. I'd at least get up and take a short walk to find a flight attendant. See if there is another seat. If nothing else I'd put my seat up because it simply isn't worth the fight.

I seriously doubt the coward would have been punching the seat if it was a man in front of him that looked like a rugby player.

We usually fly coach. I just assume the flight will be miserable. If it is anything above that, I consider it a bonus. I am going on a trip. This makes me happy.

Am I in the minority? I'm 6'2" and would prefer that the person in front doesn't recline, but if they do, oh well. I can't recall ever being on a flight that made me miserable. I just shrug my shoulders and move on and enjoy my life.

She sure is smiling a lot in that video, considering she is claiming all those injuries.

Can you ask the person behind you to intentionally punch the back of your seat as sort of a massage, like a vibrating chair?

the airlines would change their seats

For most markets there’s a monopoly or near monopoly so airlines do what they like.

I spend time and additional money buying 32” seat pitch when possible. It’s work because (peculiarly) airlines make it hard to obtain seat pitch information, rather than boast about planes with superior space.

Recently the local airline Sun Country introduced multiple seat pitches with reasonable mark ups. So the basic knee-skinner coach 29” seat pitch can be increased for a reasonable price: 32” seat pitch for $15 more, 35” seat pitch for $25 more, etc.

So the basic knee-skinner coach 29” seat pitch can be increased for a reasonable price: 32” seat pitch for $15 more, 35” seat pitch for $25 more, etc.

And guess which seat pitch will be the biggest seller. Actually, no guessing needed--Sun Country's planes have 27 of the "Best" seats, 36 of the "Better", and 120 of the "knee-skinners." Though they have added the extra legroom seats, they seem to think it's about 2:1 that folks will still buy the cheapest seat.

Hmm. ... on one flight the person ahead of me might have thought I was intentionally punching his/her seatback just to be annoying when I was just trying to get the seatback entertainment system to respond.

Well, despite all the differing opinions offered, at least we can all agree that reclining an airline seat in coach is theft.

Of course not literally theft. But most people consider it that way.

Note: The following comments are for SHORT haul flights only - less than 4 hours. And for economy seating, not any premium or extra leg room seating.

When you buy a ticket, you get a small amount of space in front of you. That space has to fit your knees, your table, your drink, your food/snack, your book and/or your electronic device. It is very tight. The moment someone in front of you pushes back, they have removed some of that minimal space. They have made a choice for THEIR own wants and taken something away from you. In fact, they are most likely INCREASING their space by TAKING some from you. Your only recourse is to recline too in order to keep the same amount of space, but that just exacerbates the problem by shifting it on to the person behind you.

No matter how you look at it, people that recline on short flights (when the person in front of them has not) are being rude. There are lots of inconsiderate people out there. I don't make a big deal of it when it happens to me; I certainly don't bang on the seat. Lots of other rude behavior on planes so reclining is not usually the worst. I'm used to having rude people in the world and that is just part of flying.

Do we agree that on international flights it's OK to recline? That would be quite unpleasant to sit bolt upright for 8 hours.

Douglass, I doubt most people consider it that way. What would be crime is denying someone the full use of the seat they purchased. Much the same as if a very large passenger folded up the arm rest and took 25% of your seat. What is inconsiderate is a 6'-2" person buying a seat that he doesnt fit in and expecting the person in front to make up the difference. What is considerate is to consider those around you, but receiving consideration isnt a right or even a fair expectation.

Do we agree that on international flights it's OK to recline?

I agree with this, so long as it's not the whole flight (ie, during meal service, which I find rude.) Once the meal has been served and cleared and the lights go out, it seems that a majority of people are reclined.

I also have to agree with James--there is absolutely no "right" to have the seat in front of you stay upright. It's not "your" space. Can it be annoying when someone dumps their seat back rapidly into your knees at takeoff and leaves it there until the FA tells them they have to bring it upright for landing? Why, yes, it can be. But to think of it it terms of a right or a crime being committed makes no sense to me.

Eric, would it be worthwhile to have a light that indicates it's time to recline, and not recline?

Basically, during meal service and other times people should not recline. After dinner as the lights dim it's OK to recline.

If there was a light or something indicating such rules, everyone might get along.

For some of us this seems like common courtesy, but as well all know common courtesy isn't as much respected any more.

Mike, I don't think the airlines would want any part of that. Once you've taken off, it's not viewed as a safety issue, so I don't see that it should be legislated.

I do wonder, though, if an announcement recommending--not requiring--that seats be upright during meal service might nudge some folks to not recline, but perhaps I'm being optimistic. As you noted, courtesy seems less than common in the best of circumstances, but seems even rarer when we're packed tightly into a metal tube. As I said, I think it's rude to recline during meal service, but that's just me. Others, I'm sure, disagree. But I also take action on my own to try and avoid the situation--bulkhead seats are my friend!

I will agree it is rude to recline all the way during meal service, especially in the bare-bones economy section of the plane, UNLESS someone has checked in with the person seated behind them to get the thumbs-up that it is okay.. Is it possible for a drink to even be positioned at the top of one's tray table when the seat in front of that person is in "full" recline?

How long does it take to enjoy an airline meal? Maybe 30 minutes? So someone cannot be courteous for that long?
God help us all.

I remember airlines requiring upright seats during meal services, don’t they do that?

Most flights I have been on the flight attendants have told people to put their seats up during meal service.

Also, as for all the banged up knees ..... every plane that I can remember the buy reclining the seat in front of me didn't change my knee space. So I don't get that. I'm every bit of 6 feet and I think I would remember. It does push the table close to you though.

With so many varying levels of "agree" and "disagree" on one's right re: reclining no matter the impact on the person seated behind your seat..........coupled with the fact that none of us saw the before/after of the situation with the two passengers in the video submitted to the networks, I do not think this thread will ever bring a resolution to the "Is is okay to recline?" question......and that was not really the intent. The intent was to hear HOW various readers would react if in a similar situation. Some would adjust their seats accordingly, and it sounds like some would not budge at all (if in the front seat). I assume if non-budgers were in the seat behind, they would say absolutely nothing to the person in the front doing a full recline into "their space," assuming they have equal rights. Let's assume said front seat person would be gracious if someone in the row behind needed to exit to go to the restroom (but maybe that is an incorrect assumption).

And, of course, by now, most everyone has likely seen the network videos of the CEO of Delta Airlines weighing in on the issue, basically saying passengers have the right to recline, but he suggests checking with the person in the seat behind before doing so. So, seems he is suggesting some human kindness/consideration.

Unless an emergency situation or a really messed up airline re-routing, I will continue to plan as carefully as I can to avoid sitting in basic economy coach.

Re: reclining seats crushing knees, James: We were on an AA flight to/fro Mexico recently, seated in the comfort coach section, and I measured. I had approx one inch of room between my knees and the seat ahead of me. When chatting with the flight attendant, she confirmed seats were tighter at the back of the plane.......I seriously was shocked. Luckily we had Main Cabin Extra for the other 3 flights (main cabin extra was sold out when we booked for that particular flight so we went with the premium/comfort coach (whatever it is called) upgrade for that flight, but I kept checking for upgrades that may have freed up, and they just did not for that one flight.

And, yes, on previous flights (before now always trying to book upgrades) I have had my knees smooshed when the seat back has come down on them. My height is more leg than upper torso....both in length between the hip socket and the knee, and then between knee and foot (which puts my knee higher than on most people....so a recline can come down on it). So, how do I deal with the potential of an inconsiderate person in front of me? I will avoid (if at all possible) sitting in those type seats and pay more for the potential of not having that happen. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, so I try not to do that. Luckily when I have been in those seats (years past, before I learned my lesson), I never experienced anyone who would not adjust their seat for some reasonable level of comfort (and I also never demanded one not recline, just requested a smidge of an adjustment).

That said, for those who are reading that do not have the long leg length problem, you may do just fine in regular coach, thereby saving upgrade expense.

Happy, safe, and comfortable travels to each of you. Peace to all....on earth and in the skies.

I think the answer was that the majority would never recline on a 2 hour flight so wouldn’t find themselves in the woman’s situation.

As stated it all comes down to the legs, I wear a 34” inseam with ordinary shoes. If I am not careful I can end up in a coach seat (29” pitch or less) where I cannot point knees straight even without the seat in front being reclined, and am in a circus where I can only point knees at 30 degrees. To prevent legs from going to sleep I have lift my feet 8 inches off the floor and press knees closer to my chest to get the knees far enough away from the seat in front to point then 30 degrees the other way, then repeat the whole flight. So in a 30” seat pitch I am in this situation if the person reclines, in the most common 31” pitch I can usually point legs straight even with reclining although my knees will touch.

Obviously seat pitch and reclining are paramount to me unless 32” or greater. The Delta A330 has some coach seats with 32”.

I think the answer was that the majority would never recline on a 2
hour flight so wouldn’t find themselves in the woman’s situation.

Not sure how you came up with that? Wishful thinking?

Someone actually did a survey a few years ago. It determined that 21% of the people knew they were rude. Hilarious.

Let’s first tackle the question of reclining seats. Of 858
respondents, 16 percent always recline, 20 percent usually do, 14
percent recline about half the time, 30 percent do only once in a
while, and 20 percent never recline.

This is a remarkably even split. Half of respondents recline half the
time or more, half of respondents do it once in a while or never. So,
we’re at a bit of an impasse here. Only 41 percent of respondents
thought it was very or somewhat rude to recline your seat during a
flight.

Most people (70 percent) said they would not eliminate the option to recline seats on flights. But most people (64 percent) also said
passengers should not recline if the flier behind them asks them not
to. The rest of them said a passenger has no obligation to the person
behind them.

The seat is made to recline. You are renting the seat.

Is there anyone on this forum who didn't know airline seats recline? If so you're excused. But if you knew before buying your seat that the one in front of you reclines, and the one you're in reclines, than you have absolutely no reason to complain if the individual in the seat ahead of you takes advantage of the option of reclining the seat they have paid for. Likewise if you choose to recline your seat.

The space involved in reclining a seat is part of the equation the airline has for allocating space to a passenger.

If you're really picky about this you have the option of either renting/buying a different seat. Note there are some seats that do not recline on every airplane. It's worth looking at seating charts when planning your flights.

I didn’t do an actual tally but my sense is that of the posters above only a handful recline on domestic flights, which is also my experience, perhaps 20% of the time I deal with daytime domestic recliners, and yes I remember!

Also worth noting, excluding the Max, there are only 2 versions of the 737 in the Southwest fleet and one of them has 32” seat pitch.

Other savings: KLM sells economy comfort TATL for less than $10/hour (Delta is more than $20/hour) and on those hideous 15 hour Air New Zealand 787 flights a person can buy an empty seat next to them on the day of travel for only $70 US.

From Spineina.com;

1. Recline your seat. Sitting down places a lot of stress on your discs, whether seated on a C-shaped airplane seat or not. Reclining your airplane seat enables you to support the weight of your body into the backrest, rather than on your spine. When you recline your seat, it decreases the gravity and pressure of your body weight on your spine.

Nobody answered last time I asked so I'll ask again, which takes precedence, somebody's knees or somebody's back?

Nobody answered last time I asked so I'll ask again, which takes precedence, somebody's knees or somebody's back?

I'm going to suggest that the risk of deep vein thrombosis takes precedence.

Douglass, I doubt most people consider it that way. What would be crime is denying someone the full use of the seat they purchased. Much the same as if a very large passenger folded up the arm rest and took 25% of your seat. What is inconsiderate is a 6'-2" person buying a seat that he doesnt fit in and expecting the person in front to make up the difference.

Actually, your example proves my point. If a large person lifted the armrest and spilled over into your seat, that is equivalent to reclining. The armrest folds up, so there is no reason for someone not to lift it. And if they take some of your seat space, well they bought their seat and just happen to be a large person. When someone reclines, they are intruding into your space. Almost everyone accepts that intrusion as part of the deal, but it is still an intrusion.

Most people are not 6-2 and easily have enough legroom. Not comfortably, but enough. So I'm not sure why that example is given.

I fly pretty often, almost always short hauls. I rarely see many people recline and even more rarely have someone in front of me recline.

Do we agree that on international flights it's OK to recline?

Of course. Anything over about 4 hours is a long time to just sit upright and most people will try to sleep or relax after service. If most people are reclining, then it all works out even. And long haul planes, especially international, tend to have a bit more legroom built in. So the recline isn't as intrusive.

My wife is short so the headrest actually pushes her head down and forward, which is very uncomfortable.

I still think it might be practical to have a lean/upright light just like the seat belt light. I don't know.

It is polite to ask the person behind you if you can lean back in case they have a drink or laptop on the table. Of course you run the risk of them saying "no" and then what?

Add my vote to the "If the seat is designed to recline and I would like to do so, then I will" side of this discussion. I often feel the need to recline because the space is tight and it gives me more breathing room. In most cases if my recline impacts the passenger behind, they can then recline their own seat. Someone who picks a last row seat should know what they are getting into (or airplanes should have space for the last row to recline built in.) On the other hand, I try to recline only after the meal service (on a long flight) as a courtesy to those behind with their tray tables down trying to eat. In response to a previous poster, I didn't know airlines "required" seat backs to be up during beverage service. My last flight I couldn't even put my drink on the spot of the tray table because the person in front was fully reclined and I said something to the flight attendant about the drink and she just stared at me (she didn't ask the front person to put her seat up).

I agree that much of the blame goes to the airlines. They have seats that recline into increasingly small legroom spaces so of course they are creating discomfort for the passengers. They don't care. They just want more profit that it brings in. If more legroom means increase in ticket price, then so be it (on long or overseas flights, I buy upgraded seats with more legroom because its a necessity for me even though I can't easily afford it.) Passengers are sometimes in bad moods due to smaller seats, increased fees, less service, poor on-time departures than air travel had in the past. Maybe legroom isn't the only issue making planes feel like sardine cans. In the past my flights were often not full, so that many middle seats would fly empty and thus create more space. Now my flights are always full.

I don't agree with the Delta Airlines exec who said the passenger should ask the person behind if it's okay to recline. That is the airline putting the responsibility on the passenger. Instead he should be asking what the airline can do to help.

The guy who pounded on the seat, however, did not need to overreact in that manner.

Simple solution: Airlines change the seats so that NONE of them recline.

I have been on several flights (all short hop domestic) on various airlines in various model planes where the seat are in a semi reclined position and do not change. No complaints from anyone there. The seats were comfortable enough for what I paid.

Just for the record, I never recline on domestic flights anymore. I am more comfortable with the upright angle and the issues I have with back pain are only made worse when I do try the slight recline most seats offer. If I am on a long haul overnight flight, I don't go on any plane unless I can get business class with lay flat seats or at least in a pod where my recline does not invade other's space. But even if I was forced to be in economy by last minute changes, I would not recline because I have never slept on a plane and just can't no matter what I try and reclining there would provide no comfort.

I was on one flight where I sat in the exit row (737 plane). The row in front of exit is fixed where it does not recline so that in case of emergency the passengers would be able to use the exit without all the seats being reclined and blocking the way. Woman sat down in front of me and immediately started beating on the seat, throwing herself into the back and cussing up a storm because the seat would not recline. She stood up in her seat and began cussing at me because I had obviously blocked the seat from reclining and she was going to have me arrested for assaulting her (obviously didn't know the meaning of assault) because I would not let the seat recline. I said nothing and pushed the flight attendant call button. Woman went into her rage when the attendant showed up. Flight attendant told her the seat was not a reclining seat at which the woman began yelling about how the airline and the world was all against her. She was escorted off the plane, but returned after about 10 minutes and was allowed back into that seat. All through the flight about every 15 - 20 minutes, the woman would do her flop again the seat back or get up and shake the seat back violently muttering "I know there is a way, I know it!"

I'm 6 foot 8, and I rarely recline, and would rather the person in front of me didn't either. That being said, for my next 4 flights I have comfort plus booked with Delta, and I fully expect to recline on those, especially the flight to and from Europe. I also expect the person in front of me to recline, and if the person behind me (also comfort plus) has a issue with it, they can say something about it, and we'll have that discussion

This discussion (and I saw the news story ) reminds me of a trans-Atlantic flight I had several years ago, Europe to USA, so I don't sleep in those. The screens behind the headrests had the usual movies, and . . . Video games. The guy sitting behind me played video games for five hours, at least. I forget the airlines, I tried to zone out, but that tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap tap ........
behind my headrest . . . . . . ugh. 😜

I have never slept on a plane and just can't no matter what I try

Ativan? It’s an anti-anxiety drug but I can sleep on planes if I take it. 6 generic pills a paltry 50 cents.

As pointed out earlier, I always recline, most definitely on an international flight. On short flights it depends. It's much easier to eat the meal when the seat is upright which is what I do at that moment. After that I recline but discreetly, never have had a complaint .... a matter of the odds.

The important factor is that I'll sleep anyway on an international flight, say SFO to FRA or Paris or to London, reclining or not, ( a given ), but it's much easier to fall asleep sitting in a slightly reclined seat than one strictly upright.

If there should be a guy behind me, a rude guy insisting on no recline on my part, I'll be ahead of him in the sleep dept. upon landing regardless of my seat was reclined or not. How will he feel at that point?

Tom_MN

Thanks. I have tried various prescriptions, over the counter as well. Nothing works. It is the constant movement of people around me and the bumping into my seat (accidental, I hope) combined with movement of the plane that just keeps me awake. So I plan for a "recovery" day on arrival and just sleep to catch up. I try and take the flights to Europe that arrive late evening when available so I can have a quick dinner and then head off to sleep. I am always ready t go the next morning without jet lag in these situations.

the bumping into my seat

Continuing off topic but aisle seats are the worst for sleeping, especially in the 3-4-3 seating of the 777 where the aisles are so dang narrow.

especially in the 3-4-3 seating of the 777 where the aisles are so dang narrow.

Yep, and the seats are narrower, too. I refuse to fly in one of these (or a 9-across B787) if in coach. Thank goodness Delta hasn't gone this route...yet.

My favorite comment from an anti-recline advocate was that they would lean forward and whisper in the recliner's ear, "Oh yes, come on back a little more" or something like that. Made me laugh out loud.

My worst experience was when some man abruptly slammed his seat all the way back while I was reading a hardback book (they still sell these in airports, so I must not be the only one) and it left a bruise across my thigh where it jammed the book down into my legs.

For the record, I don't recline on domestic daytime flights. I don't recline at work, church in other places in broad daylight either. I do recline on overnight international flights, just like almost everyone on the plane. I ease back very gradually, but I don't ask permission.

Since my long distance flying (6-11 hrs) is in the summer, ie super rare in the winter, I'll take an aisle seat anytime. True, it's a trade-off but the aisle seat has most of the advantages.

I am 5'10" tall and my knees can hit the seat in front of me in coach. My husband is 6"4" tall. Neither of us ever reclines our seat unless we're in business or first class. When the person in front of me tries to slam the seat back, I just lift my knees to prevent my circulation from being cut off if they recline all the allowable way. My husband does not even need to move his legs since he's already stuffed into the row. I worry about DVT's from the tight environment and the lack of maneuvering space. We do spend more money to buy economy plus as we age because we are so "over" the seatback slammers.

We've flown the cheapest economy for decades, but no more. If we can't afford premium economy we're not going. The difference is incredible. It's all a matter of prioritizing spending during the year so we can do that. So much more rested upon arrival.

I don’t need to recline in short flights so I don’t usually .

I however do recline on overseas or overnight flights and I’m not “ stealing “ anything from anyone - I purchased a seat that reclines , I’m entitled to do so - I have zero issue with seats in front of me reclining so yeah I don’t get your issues if I recline . You go back 3 inches I go back three inches - even steven .

I do not recline during meals .

And I do not understand how if I recline and then you recline - you lose any space at all ?

I do agree airlines have made some seating unbearable for everyone - where if I have to pass someone in my row to go to washroom I’m literally entangled with their legs to get through unless they all stand up and move right out of row .

I’m going to be blunt - but the bigger you are ( height or weight ) then the more issues you are going to have to complain about ( if the table is embedded in your belly that’s too tight ! ) but that’s airlines fault not mine I didn’t make the seats that small .

We now make a point of booking only premium economy or extra leg room seats now . I know people say “ oh we all can’t afford it “ well I don’t know , might take longer but if saving for an extra month or two is too hard then you’ve made that choice ( most extra leg room seats range from 25–100 dollars extra ) which I don’t think is unrealistic if you’re already planning two weeks in Europe etc

I’d like data for the “even steven” comment, my observation is that when a person in front of you reclines and knee room is lost, reclining yourself does not completely recoup the lost knee space. In order to recoup knee space a person would have to have there butt physically slide to the rear, reclining doesn’t do that. The seat pivots back but the butt doesn’t move.

So there is most knee room If no one reclines, and least knee room when everyone reclines.

I got up early to check the Rick Steves site - can't sleep because I'm stressed about details of upcoming, lengthy, work-related travels. After reading all the comments here, I'm MORE stressed out rather than less so, and I don't even want to get on a plane because I'm afraid the person behind me will hate me.

Airline seats recline. It never occurred to me to NOT use this available option! Somehow I TOTALLY missed the memo that reclining is considered rude and is so disapproved of!

I'll be on 10+ hour flights, I have back and hip pain, and I struggle terribly with insomnia and find it hard to sleep on a plane in the best of circumstances. If I cannot even recline my seat the teeny-tiny bit that it actually allows for, I'm not going to sleep at all . . . and now I have to be worried that the person behind me is going to be pissed?

I always ease my seat back and never fling it into recline mode. The button is there, the option is provided. I am a kind and gentle soul who would never inconvenience someone else - and now I feel like I have been and will be! Yuck! It never bothers me when the person in front of me reclines, and I'm not a tiny person or anything. They have a recline button, and I figure they're going to use it. Who am I to expect someone to not use this standard option available to them?!

No, I can't afford an upgrade - even though I am traveling for work I am paying for it myself.

I had no idea so many people were so worked about about this. I don't even want to get on the plane at this point!

Wow . . . just wow . . .

Heidi, just recline except during meals, and don't worry about it. Recline slowly so that you don't break the computer of the person behind you. The airline sold you a seat that reclines. If the person behind you has a problem with that, they can blame the airlines.

Heidi, consider your eyes opened. Now you are aware how inconsiderate/uncomfortable/dangerous reclining one's seat can be.

My car can reach 150mph, it doesn't mean that I should always drive at that speed. Just because something can be done doesn't mean that it should,

Heidi, Don’t lose sleep just because some think it’s rude to recline. Just go ahead and get comfortable and think nothing of it. If you put a 100 people in a room and ask for an opinion, you’re going to get 100 opinions.

Heidi, read the survey posted above, lean back and enjoy.

Be considerate, but don't be guilted into forfeiting what you bought.

This entire debate is quite amusing and enlightening from a cultural standpoint. Coming from a culture (French) where awareness of other people's personal space is just... not a thing, I find myself unable to identify with statements such as "I don't recline because I worry that the person behind me will begrudge my intruding their space". Everyone I know here will just recline as needed, and expect people behind them to do the same if they so desire.

Those who feel slighted tend to complain. Those who dont tend to be quiet. So in a forum like this the talk is going to be pretty one sided. That survey above and the fact that airlines dont change their policy (and I am sure they have done their homework on the subject) tells where the majority opinion rests. Of course, always be polite to the extent reasonable by the situation, but never be guilted into a decision by a person who values their perceived rights as greater than yours..

So I select and often pay for an aisle seat. When the middle or window seats need to use the bathroom, do I get to say, “Gosh, I’m sorry, but that would be an invasion of my personal space”?
Honestly.

True, I tend to be the quiet one but no matter, still most likely that person crossing my irrelevant personal space will wake me up from sleeping ( almost always happens). Then I'll just have fall back to sleep in my slightly reclined seat, which is a given. It 's only a matter of time until we land.

I always get the aisle because I would rather be gracious than the one waking up Fred. That and when the person in front of me reclines its easier to get out and stretch a few times during the flight.

The whole personal space comment is a red herring comment noted by one person then amplified. Reclining anger is not about some perception thing “people need to just get over.”

If only there were still space between my knees and a reclined seat— but there is no space, the reclined seat is pressed against my body and my knees deform the seat back for the entire flight. Reclining is a physical assault. Then I am unable to do things like open a laptop or spread out a snack, if I can even reach under the seat in front to access anything. And pick up a dropped item? Absolutely impossible.

Bad karma In treating another human being in any religion.

The whole personal space comment is a red herring. Studies show Americans require less personal space than Europeans.

As has been oft-noted in this forum, it is problematic lumping the citizens of Europe into one homogeneous group. The study reported on in the link below shows a wide-range of desired personal space between strangers depending on what country in Europe is being studied. Some are more than the US, some less, and some about the same.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/04/24/how-close-is-too-close-depends-on-where-you-live/

So much for the French having a universally lax attitude about reclining

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/28/for-the-second-time-in-a-week-a-ruckus-over-a-reclining-seat-causes-flight-to-be-diverted/

There’s over a 1000 comments after this article rehashing the same points as this topic, but I did like this one:

“I once had a woman in front of me slam her seat back after the meal trays had been served. My tray was shoved violently into my abdomen, slopping the food all over. Then she tossed her long hair over the back of her seat, right into my food. I then dipped her hair thoroughly into the corn chowder, making sure I got most of it nice and gooey. The laughing flight attendant gave me a new tray, and did NOT tell the woman about the chowder in her hair. It didn't make any more space for me, but I still laugh about it.“

Since this issue is stature-oriented, conflict seems to usually been man against woman, unfortunately.

"Mind if I recline?"

"No problem. Mind if I fart?"

Maybe this wouldn't have been funny if I'd been trying to sleep, but I can't sleep on airplanes, so I still laugh about what happened on my return flight from Australia.

I had the aisle seat because I get up to go to the bathroom so often, but the two Australian young men next to me started drinking beer steadily from the moment drinks were served and after a few hours started to need the bathroom even more often. They drank a LOT of beer and then moved onto spirits.

At first, they asked to be excused and I got up and let one or the other out, but then they decided they had a better idea. Each one would stand up on his seat and then step onto our arm-rests to walk out and then jump down into the aisle, somehow repeating this acrobatic performance on the way back. They were very nice and polite about it!

In a particularly nasty situation we had, it was the reclining man bullying the woman. This guy immediately dropped his seat practically into my wife's lap, refused her protests, and so thoroughly intimidated the female flight attendant that she would not do anything. Kept it there the entire 9 hour flight. And what you have to realize is my wife is not quite 5'2". It was not a matter of knee space, it was all the space, as this was several years back and the seats seemed to recline a lot further than now. She could not even get out from her aisle seat without squeezing through. Now wouldn't a simple solution have been "Why don't the two rows trade seats?' There was no middle ground with him, such as split the difference. Actually said "It's a feature and I am going to use it." Incidentally, I have also had an overnight flight with someone in my lap the whole way who also was bouncing around like mad. I did not want to recline out of the way any more than a tad because the row behind me was up against the bulkhead with no recline possible, and I did not want to inconvenience the next person if I could help it.

When I recline, the key here is slightly and discreetly, I don't ask for permission. "They " don't ask, I don't ask.

True, there have been some occasional obnoxious ones, a though few, who recline to the max interfering, cutting into my space by any stretch of the definition making it more difficult for me especially at meal time, etc

The flight is ca 11 hours, I know that upon landing I'll be in better shape, having slept, no jet lag. etc than that intruder into my space. A pity he had to recline to max.

How would I handle it? I would likely get very stubborn. Whereas I may have been willing to negotiate a compromise, after that behaviour, there would be no way.

As for the issue of reclining, I fall firmly into the camp that, if the seats recline, I am allowed to recline. It has never occurred to me to ask the person-behind-me's permission, nor do I plan to start doing so. I always look back and then recline gently and always bring my seat up for meals.

I tend not to bother reclining, or recline just a couple of inches, on a short flight, but on a long flight, especially an overnight one, you bet I'm going to recline and try to sleep.

I was once in the back, non-reclining row on a trip to England (not by choice--I had tried to book seats upon check-in but wasn't able to, so I went very early to the airport, and somehow those were the only seats left). Anyway, it didn't occur to me to expect the people in front of me not to recline.

That said, if there was someone particularly big or tall behind me, and if s/he asked POLITELY that I not recline, I would probably negotiate a very slight recline (if the flight was long and/or late night) and check on the person's comfort.

I am shocked, though, at those who call people who recline rude or nasty. No. It's rude to be judgemental and nasty to throw a tantrum like the man in the video did, IMO. It's neither rude nor nasty to make use of the tools with which one is provided by the airlines.

I had settled on only reclining a small fraction of the seat's recline range. Fully reclining is too much. The space in economy is small and reclining into someone's space makes their uncomfortable trip more miserable.

Now I won't recline at all. My last international flight was on Aer Lingus. Their tray tables in economy apparently only work when everyone's seat is upright. I couldn't care less about airline food so I usually try to get straight to sleep after take off. The flight attendant woke me up to have me raise my seat one inch when they were serving dinner. After that I never got back to a sound sleep. From now on, I'm going to sleep without reclining the seat at all so no one wakes me up.

I don't recline. I do find that a couple of things make me slightly less annoyed when the person in front of me does--being on the aisle, and also being able to stretch out my legs under their seat. Nothing is worse than trying to get out from a window seat if everyone is halfway into an already cramped space, and thus no small amount of seat-jostling might possibly occur as I attempt to crawl out...Also difficult to watch the monitor at such a close range.

My simple rule is I don't recline unless the person behind me reclines. As a side note, if you lose your cell phone into the seat mechanism, DO NOT move the seat. Call an attendant and tell them what happened. Reason being, phone batteries, if broken, can go into a chemical, thermal meltdown. And they can do that in a spectacular fashion. :)