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Air travel vs. Rail: Germany, France, Ireland & London

My first time ever using a travel forum. Pls bear with me. Traveling from U.S. to Europe in Sept or Oct 2017; 2.5-3 wks vacation time. Would appreciate any advice on least expensive "means of travel" between the countries of interest; using local airlines if the price is applicable but also factoring in "length of time" for mode of travel. How soon before travel date for RAIL can tickets be purchased? Just looked up Rail availability and 8-9 mo's out is not available. Also, any ideas of "must-see/do" within those countries would be much appreciated. Thank you.

Posted by
7175 posts

Fly from USA to Ireland http://www.planetware.com/tourist-attractions/ireland-irl.htm
Fly from Ireland to Germany http://www.planetware.com/tourist-attractions/germany-d.htm
Train from Germany to France http://www.planetware.com/tourist-attractions/france-f.htm
Train from France to London http://www.planetware.com/tourist-attractions-/london-eng-l-lon.htm
Fly from London to USA

However, it really depends on final choice of destinations. Berlin to Bordeaux, for example, is way too far to consider train travel.

Posted by
8889 posts

OK Mandy, we will try and treat you gently.
The best method of transport depends where in country A to where in country B. Details affect the answer. Cheapest is often coaches (long distance bus), but these are the slowest option, infrequent, uncomfortable and often involve overnight trips.
Depending on distance, trains or economy airlines come next. Economy airlines can be remarkably cheap, but, for shorter trips trains can be faster and almost always more comfortable.
For example, London to Berlin I would fly, plenty of competition for cheap air-fares. London - Cologne, maybe fly, maybe train. Train has the advantage that you can stop off en route, for example in Brussels. Cologne - Berlin definitely train. The normal rule of thumb is if a train takes less than 4 hours, then it is quicker than flying once you add in all the extra time to get city-centre to city-centre, and is usually more comfortable and less stress. The balance partially depends on the access to airports and the availability of direct flights.
For trains, I recommend you read through this website. It is the absolute best source of info about how it all works and what tickets to get: http://seat61.com/

Posted by
8269 posts

With a little more itinerary details, you will get someone's expertise.
The advent of budget European airlines has really opened up the continent for travelers to see and experience so many different places in a relatively short time. You can fly just about anywhere for $100 or so. I personally don't care for trains past 3 hours--and prefer to fly or drive if the trip's longer.
Also, the distances across some of the European countries (Germany, France, Spain) are longer than many realize.

Posted by
3 posts

Thank you for the information! No particular itinerary on which country to visit first or last, looking for the most cost effective & efficient travel to the above. Cities of particular interest: Munich & southeastern Germany, West Port, Ireland, Menton, France & Glastonberry, England. Germany, France, Ireland are my top choices with England, last choice if time permits.

Posted by
20661 posts

Just looked up Rail availability and 8-9 mo's out is not available.

That is because the European rail schedules are generally updated twice a year, in June and December. The schedules usually change very little, often service is increased or times reduced because rails get upgraded to accommodate faster trains. For instance, a new 35-mile tunnel under the Alps opened to passenger service in Switzerland last month, reducing the travel time between Zurich and Milan.

So for planning purposes, just look at the schedules 3 months out to see what is available and the prices for advance purchase non-refundable tickets as well as the walk-up price.

Posted by
11294 posts

Your first purchase should be Rick Steves Europe Through The Back Door. It has all the nuts and bolts of travel (how to get between places, how to find food, what European hotels are like, etc).

When you look up rail schedules, don't use Rail Europe. They do not list all trains, and they mark up prices (sometimes substantially) on tickets they do sell.

Instead, look at Bahn (German Rail) website http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en, following Rick's tutorial: http://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/transportation/trains/online-schedules

This has schedules for almost all of Europe, but only has prices for trains that start or end in Germany. To find the best prices for other trains, here's a great list from The Man In Seat 61: http://tinyurl.com/bo8x6o6

As for how far out tickets can be purchased, that depends. For the Eurostar between London and Paris or London and Brussels, it's 6 months. For other international tickets, it's usually 3-4 months. For some domestic tickets, you don't need to buy in advance at all.

To find flights, use Skyscanner: http://www.skyscanner.com/. But be sure to go to the actual airline's website and do a dummy booking (up to the point where you put in your credit card) to learn all the fees and rules. Many flights within Europe are on budget carriers, which have all kinds of fees and rules you won't be used to if you've only flown "legacy" carriers such as United or Delta (or British Air or Air France). Remember that the budget airlines make their money (and generate most of their complaints) from people who don't understand the rules and don't think the rules will be applied to them. For instance, some fares on Easyjet allow one carryon. They don't mean a suitcase plus a purse - they mean one total, up to a certain size. If you have two items and can't stuff them into one bag, or if your items are too large, they'll make you check one - and charge your much more than if you had paid in advance online to check it.

Be aware that some Ryanair flights are from airports quite far from their "namesake" cities. Examples include London Stansted, Paris Beauvais, and Frankfurt Hahn. Once you allow the extra time and/or money it can take to reach these airports, you can sometimes do better with a "more expensive" flight from a closer-in airport.

A great trick I learned on this Forum: to see all the flights that go nonstop from an airport, look at that airport's Wikipedia page. Remember that not all flights are daily, and can be as infrequent as once a week.

To find out how to get between two places if you aren't sure of the options, you can start with Rome2Rio: https://www.rome2rio.com/. However, always double check both prices and schedules with the actual airline, bus company, etc.

Yes, if you have more time than money, bus is often the cheapest way to go, particularly if you haven't been able to get advance purchase discounts on the train or plane. But if you can buy in advance, the bus is not nearly as good a deal for many routes (on some routes of course, it's the best or the only way).

As for must sees and must-dos, only you can say that. Start reading as many travel books as you can - go to your library. You can also get ideas from TripAdvisor's lists of sights for a place (for instance, here's their London list: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g186338-Activities-London_England.html). Also watch travel videos; for Rick's, scroll down, and click on each country to see various episodes: https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/video/tv-show

Posted by
4178 posts

I'm sure it all seems overwhelming, but you have gotten some really good advice here. Planning your own trip is part of the fun, but it can be exhausting. If you get burned out, take a break.

My own trip planning is an iterative process. Identifying where to go based on why to go there is first on the list for me. So that's the what and some of the why. Setting trip priorities is the main dish of the trip.

The how, as your question indicates, becomes the challenge. Sometimes the what gets changed because the how affects it. Sometimes you have to decide if the transportation costs in money and time are worth what you want to see or do at the place you want to go. Sometimes you have to change when you go or drop the location entirely because the exact thing you want to see or do is closed on the day you're planning to be there.

You say you have 2.5 - 3 weeks. Pinning that down pretty well from the beginning will also help with the planning. Is that 21 days max or is there an extra weekend day or 2 in the mix? Does it include travel days from and back to your home? Is the time flexible or are you limited to a specific window of vacation days?

Typically, 2 nights in a location equal one full day there. Any time you change locations, it costs time lost to travel and you have some pretty big distances to cover if you stick to the countries and one city on your list.

Have fun getting started with your research. You have plenty of time to plan.

Posted by
6113 posts

Travelling between the locations that you have listed will cost time and money.

The towns that you mentioned with the exception of Munich are smaller places, without direct access to an airport and will therefore take time to get to even once you get to the nearest airport. Within your timescale, therefore, I would suggest that you focus on two or three locations, particularly if you are only travelling for 2.5 weeks.

In Ireland, Dublin is an interesting city (but not IMO one of Europe's leading cities) and west coast is stunning, if you get decent weather and not mist!

I prefer Berlin to Munich. You could easily spend 5 full days in Berlin and not get bored.

In France, Paris is a must and after that, it's a difficult decision as to where to go. I like Ille de Rei, Lille, Poitou Charentes, the Dordogne, Lot, the Loire, Provence etc.

Flying open jaw will save time and money back tracking.

Posted by
3 posts

I want to thank each and everyone of you for your wealth of advice & suggestions. Still considering the amount of time we have w/travel time included. Looking at 3 wks; possibly we can tuck in a few extra days for travel time. Really appreciate your time & attention. Grateful.
Mandy