Air BNB's

Your question frequently comes up here. You can maybe start with this,
https://community.ricksteves.com/travel-forum/general-europe/a-plug-for-airbnb

but the Search box (note filter choices to the left of the results column ... ) will reveal many more.

We like to rent apartments (not just airbnb) when we're going to be someplace more than a few nights. You mentioned some of the upsides, plus you can spread out, cook, often do laundry, and live in more of a "real" neighborhood. Downsides include the possible hassles of arranging to pick up keys, mechanical things going wrong, and no 24-hour desk clerk. In Paris and some other big cities, another possible downside is regulators cracking down on short-term rentals. In Paris, look for a 13-digit registration number in the listing. Elsewhere, do your best to make sure you won't be stuck if your landlord gets in trouble for violating a local law.

Apart from a week in Venice a couple of years ago, I haven’t stayed in a hotel for about a decade, other than when away on business.

Airbnb is no longer my accommodation of choice, as I don’t like their lack of clarity on precise property locations and their pricing is c 25% more expensive than Booking.com and Trip Advisor rentals, often for the exact same property. Most hotels are soulless places and as we go away for more extended periods, we like having our own kitchen, washing machine etc.

A couple of the other drawbacks:

1. The dreaded last minute cancellation
2. While being in a residential neighborhood may be convenient in some cities, it could also mean more travel time and perhaps no opportunity to stop off in the middle of the day.
3. And, of course, you have to want the ability to cook. If people enjoy cooking on vacation, then that’s fine. Yes, restaurant meals add up, but you never have to worry about preparing dinner and the realize you forgot something.

Oh boy, AirBnb.

A few observations on the posts above:

Cost of Airbnb

AirBnb can be more expensive, but they say its to cover the cost of the various "safeguards" they provide. Know that most apartments are listed on several platforms so find the same apartment on each and see if the cost savings or increase is offset in your opinion by the service of the platform. Since most apartments use the same advertisment on each platform you can usually track them down on Google withe some key phrase, like: "convenient secluded seaside"

Vague location information

I wouldn't rent a place unless i knew exactly where it was located. Write and ask. If they dont tell you, move on. "Close to major sights" can mean a few hundred feet or a few kilometers.

The dreaded last minute cancellation

Not too sure how many times the dreaded last minute cancellation occurs. Look for what appears to be professionally run apartments, not mom and pops. They have a reputation that spans many units so they have to be more careful. Its a business not a hobby.

While being in a residential neighborhood may be convenient in some
cities, it could also mean more travel time and perhaps no opportunity
to stop off in the middle of the day.

Location, location, location. Hotels can be as inconvenient as apartments. Most towns with tourist centers will have plenty of apartments in those centers.

And, of course, you have to want the ability to cook. If people enjoy
cooking on vacation, then that’s fine. Yes, restaurant meals add up,
but you never have to worry about preparing dinner and the realize you
forgot something.

Cooking is the last reason to rent an apartment as even residential zones have restaurants. Possibly more authentic. Living in the city is generally the first. Your own home in Prague or Budapest as it were. No, you will not be a local, but you will be surrounded by them and that can be an eye opener. Just more to learn while traveling.

I spend about a month in Europe every year and the only city i have ever stayed in a short term apartment is in Budapest. Im spoiled, i like my room service. But I do understand the attraction of short term rentals.

There is no law that you have to cook when staying in an apartment! So many people list not wanting to cook as a drawback - but obviously you don't have to cook. A kitchen is highly useful even if you never turn on the stove or get out a knife. You can store snacks that need refrigeration (yogurt, cheese), even buying larger quantities of these at local markets. You have counter space for snacks that don't need refrigeration but take space, like fruit and bread. You have glasses and openers for wine (and can chill white wine in the fridge). And if even this level of kitchen use doesn't appeal to you...you can not touch the kitchen at all!

I stay in apartments (sometimes from airbnb, sometimes booking.com, vrbo, or other sources) most of the time if I am staying more than 3 nights. I cook occasionally (I like getting local products and making a simple meal), but usually still eat at restaurants because it is part of the experience of travel for me. Still, cooking once and a while and periodically having a healthy dinner of various market finds helps the budget and the waistline!

What I like is the SPACE - traveling with 2 children, hotel rooms are cramped. Also, in Europe I have had real trouble finding hotel rooms for 4. Also, my kids used to get up early, now one likes to sleep late. Either way, their schedules are different from mine so my husband or I can get up and take a walk when we want to, 7AM or midnight, without bothering anyone else because they are in a separate bedroom. Plus more privacy for everyone. Just makes sense for anyone traveling with kids, family members, or non-romantic travel partners - everyone gets their own bedrooms (kids can share), but theres lots of space to hang out and be together during waking hours.

Also at the mid-range there is no way a hotel would be as nice as some of the apartments I've had. We are talking private roof decks with views of the cathedral or acropolis, private gardens, street view terraces, 2 or 3 bedrooms. Great locations right in the center. Or single family country houses. For less than a nice but not luxury hotel in the same area. You can get a bare-bones apartment and save a ton of money compared to a hotel or get a special one and spend the same. I choose to sometimes spend the same as I would in a hotel and get something really nice.

Sometimes the stairs squeak or you can't find an extra pillow until you look in the box under the couch or the light switch for the bathroom is 10 feet down the hall from the room...you do need to be flexible on small things, but I've never had an actual problem.

As my grandma used to say, different strokes for different folks. I've had a horrible experience with a vacation rental in Europe and feel much better staying at small hotels and pensions as a single person. For a family it may be a better option.

I agree with Mira above. For us, when travelling as a family and staying a number of nights, appartments are the way to go for sure. We enjoy the extra space, sometimes the convenience of a second bathroom, laundry facilities etc. If we are staying only 1 night though, hotels are more convenient and more flexible with check in and out times, no need to worry about getting keys etc. I truly think there is room for both types of accomodations when travelling.

I've stayed in a variety of places: hostel, small inn, big hotel, camping, Airbnb. I've been really happy with Airbnb (so far only France and Germany). I find Airbnb generally gives me more room and conveniences (fridge, stove, oven, bbq, fireplace, etc.) at a lower cost than a hotel. Often the hosts add things I didn't expect (breakfast, beer or wine, bike use, etc.). I avoid a lot of the problems by staying at places with plenty of reviews. I give an honest review afterward. My only Airbnb stay on my last trip to France was in Bordeaux, the room was as good as it could possibly be but the walk to the center was too long. Bordeaux has very limited public transportation (unlike Paris). My review said it's a great place, if you have a car or bike to get around. Interestingly, the owner ended up with a double booked room for one night. So she stayed with a friend and let the person have her room.

We only started Europe travelling 10 years ago - and we've always been more budget minded - usually staying in traditional bed & breakfasts, or couchsurfing. Generally hotels were for the night before flying home, or in a really busy spot - like Munich during Oktoberfest - tho that was in 2010 - we 'discovered' airbnb in 2011 (a couchsurfer staying with us told us about it) and pretty much is all we use now - we don't mind staying in a home with people present (hence why we couchsurfed) so can generally find better prices that way.

And the hosts are fonts of info - our trip we just took last month to the south of France - our hosts in Manosque told us most shops there were closed Mon, but we should go to Forcalquier that day as there was a huge market there - we didn't know either of these tidbits, and would have wasted the morning walking around Manosque, and have missed the huge market in Forcalquier. That's just one example, but we've had lots of recommends from hosts that made our trip better...

I like the convenience of hotel staff. I choose small hotels, except when I'm in transit, and then it is one with room service. I have no desire to stay in an apartment as I don't want to cook, clean, or spread out. I'm never there. I like the front desk for information/recommendations, knowledge that I exist, and pleasant conversation.

Also, when traveling solo, I feel more secure in a hotel. When traveling solo, I have no problem at all meeting the locals, and usually do well when traveling with my husband as well as I've learned the techniques. Sometimes places with kitchenettes and refrigerators make me feel like I'm on a beach vacation...and not in a good way.

However, there is no right way. When I'm on vacation, I want to feel like I'm on vacation and hotels make me feel that way. Others likely don't need the little amenities that hotels provide and that's good also. I know there are a few friends, should I decide to risk our relationships and travel with them, who might force me to stay in an apartment. If I were to stay for a month in one location, I might go the apartment route...

In the past 5 years, I have used airbnb to rent in the USA with my husband and /or friends. It is essential to read the reviews both + and negative - IF you have questions and concerns contact the host before reserving. I have been VERY pleased when I have used airbnb for solo travel in Ecuador , South America/ Eastern Europe and most recently in GREECE (2018/). I always tell the host that I am a senior solo traveler and I need a safe location with easy access to public transport, since I don't rent cars when traveling. In Nafplion Greece my host invited me to her summer home in TOLO for my 75th birthday celebration. I also feel in a large chain hotel no one would notice if I don't show up one evening...no one would notice until the cleaning crew came!

In an airbnb I feel well cared for and that the host cares about me as a person not just that " old lady in room 202!"
Since I travel budget style, I want at least a refrig and hot pot to fix light meals and snacks so I can enjoy local meals out during my stay but remain with in budget.

What Mira said.
Going to Europe a couple of times a year now, I always rent an apartment.
I'm very picky about my final choice, and ask a lot of questions of the host before booking.
My 3 criteria are : reliable WiFi, a terrace or balcony, and a working washing machine.
This year I also want a working hairdryer, to save on packing space.
I like to be within walking distance of the nearest railway station or Metro or RER; and the listing has to show me many photos before I'll book.
In nearly 15 years of renting apartments, we've only had one "bad" one.
It was in Rome in 2008, and owned by an American girl, who turned out to be a slob and very disorganized.
The glass shower door was hanging off ready to kill us, and no bathmat so slippy bathroom tiles.
The towels were worn out old beach towels, and the beds had layers of bedding: clean or dirty? we never knew!
The wiring and plugs were all held together with scotch tape.
The kitchen smelled like cats, and no one showed up for 3 hours to let us in, despite us phoning her when we landed.
I gave it a scathing review, and it was off the list shortly after.
We were only there 3 nights.
Every other place I've had has been a delight. (Touch wood!)
I rent from Airbnb, HomeAway, TripAdvisor, and VRBO usually.
Let's see what this Septembers' offerings are like!!!

You have all the usual good advice with one exception. Always get a street address and go to Google Maps and Google Street View. With maps you can determine the real distance to transportation and tourist sites. With street view you can get a good look at the actual neighborhood.

We have used VRBO about 20 times and never had a bad rental. But we do do a lot of research using all of the techniques suggested above.

A few comments on apartments in general.

For most of my travels in Europe (mostly Germany) I have been by myself, so apartments (Ferienwohnungen, in German) have not been a viable option. However, I have started to stay in Privatzimmer, which have many of the features of apartments (inexpensive, even closer to your hosts than in apartments, no kitchen but breakfast usually included).

Recently, because I've traveled with my new partner, I've stayed in a few Ferienwohnungen. I like that I have a kitchen and don't have to go anywhere, even downstairs, for breakfast. No need to put on clothes. I make coffee and have rolls, cold cuts, cheese, marmalade, and fruit from the grocery store. However, there are never staples in the apartments. Germans travel by car and have room to take these with them when they leave. I don't. I bought a pound (half kg) of coffee and left half of it behind. I bought butter and milk and left at least half behind. There was no sugar in the apartment so I bought a half kilo (and a sugar bowel to put it in) and left them behind.

I did fix a few dinners. One night we weren't in the mood for a restaurant meal, so I just fixed bacon and eggs. Bought 10 eggs and left seven. Another night we had had a big restaurant lunch. My partner wasn't hungry and I wasn't very, so I just fixed myself a bowel of Spätzle (bought a bag of dry Spätzle at the store). I fixed some more Spätzel with Schnitzel another night, but left most behind. I had to buy a small bag of flour and some breading for the Schnitzel (used one of the eggs), but left the flour and breading behind.

And so on. I bought a lot of basic staples and left them behind. Might have cost me as much as eating out. So that's the downside of apartments.

Now for AirB&B. I found 14 Ferienwohnungen on the town website. Nightly prices ranged from 33€ to 55€ (only 2 more than 40€) with a mean price of 37€; median price was 35€. I picked one (@35€) for its convenient location to public transportation. I also found on Google Maps a Ferienwohnungen in town not shown on the town website. It was not as convenient to transportation, particularly buses into town, as where I stayed. Their website (also on Google Maps) showed a price of 65€/nt (about $75/nt). AirB&B, with their listing fee, was $84/nt. Her website showed that the bus went down her street; the circle on AirB&B was so large it could have been a long walk to public transportation.

This is only one example, but I have found other similar examples in town, and AirB&B has nowhere near the options in town vs the town website. I think using a town website is definitely better than using AirB&B.

I have stayed in various countries in Europe in various types accommodations... B&Bs, small two star hotels, university dorms, Pensionen, an apt, (in Warsaw prior to AirBnB), one time in a "Zimmer frei," in 3 and 4 star hotels, and in private, independent hostels as well as the HI hostels.

I won't "graduate" to AirBnBs as that is not an option. That option I have ruled out.

Regulary use self catering apartments, love being able to shop in the local markets. But think 'graduating' is the wrong word and i agree with Fred, air b&b is an option i will never consider.

I'm surprised more Rick Steves' fans don't rent rooms like Nicole and Lee mention. It seems like renting a room while the host is still home would be an excellent way to see Europe 'through the back door'. You get to meet and live with a local, get their perspective and advice, maybe eat dinner with them. And it's usually very affordable compared to a hotel or renting an entire apartment.

Sarah...that’s what we did with our hostess in Salon in France. We actually stayed with her twice...in 2015 and this year. It was like visiting an old ‘friend’. One night I had brought back some chicken and pasta and she whipped up a salad, provided the bread and gave me a pastis to try (no, I didn’t care for it). And we all sat out on her front deck to eat. And she was happy to share breakfast food with us as well. And just to have someone to chat with in the morning and evening was nice..especially because spending 24/7 with the husband can be...ah...trying.

So def connecting with a local!

One memorable one as well was a lady we stayed with near Yosemite. We were there when the gov’t shutdown took effect, so we weren’t in a hurry to head out, since we couldn’t go to the park. We sat and chatted with her for...it must have been 3 hrs. Great connecting with someone.

But I do realize that just because I don’t mind talking and staying with total strangers...that’s not everyone’s preferred method of travel. That’s why there are hotels!

I just returned from 4 months traveling in Europe including the Balkans. I stayed in at least 11 AirBnb's from Paris to Italy to Bosnia and Bulgaria and Athens. With only one exception they were all great. Cheaper than a hotel room, bigger, with kitchens and often a really nice terrace, some with views.

I am a fan of AirBnb, and there are die hard critics on this site that anytime the mention of AirBnb comes up they engage. Not always with an open mind.

I found that your experience with AirBnb will be directly proportional to your understanding how to effectively use their website.

You can contact ANY host before you decide to book to ask questions and find out exactly where the property is located. Do not let the scare tactics of the professional AirBnb critics here deter anyone from this experience.

Read between the lines here. There are Billions of dollars at stake for the hotel industry with the popularity and growth of AirBnb. AirBnb expects to surpass the 100 Million bookings mark this year. That certainly has the hotel industry's attention and they are pouring money into funding anti AirBnb laws, buying professional online critics, social media campaigns and raising spurious concerns among residenst of the alleged effect of AirBnb's in their neighborhoods. Dont Buy it. It's business at it's dog-eat dog worst.

I am a former hotel owner that sees both sides of this battle clearly and understands the forces at play.

AirBnb is the Car to the Buggy Whip of hotels. (a bit overstated yes but you get the idea I am sure)

We need to just be careful about blanket statements. Every location is unique, every traveler need and desire is unique; there is no typical. So no one is right on the subject and no one is wrong on the subject. I own a couple of AirBnb's in Europe and I prefer hotels when I travel. Are they the wave of the future? Depends on where. I know the cost of real estate in my market has gotten so high that I cant imagine someone buying and apartment and making any money renting it out.

Just bear in mind that Airbnb is an option, not the be all and end all to holiday rentals. As with Lee above, I usually search for rentals through local tourist boards of either the town or the region where I will be staying in. It is very easy to do so in Germany, Austria, France and Britain, less so in Italy (the last time I was there anyway), and invariably cheaper if the same property is listed on Airbnb or VRBO. Then again, there are some rentals only to be found on Airbnb.

Regarding Airbnb itself, I believe it has an advantage when it come to the larger markets, not just for the owners of permanent holiday rentals but also those who want to move out of their properties temporarily to make a few extra dollars - I admit to not being certain on this nowadays, with talk of all the clamp downs and new regulations. I have used it succesfully twice before, both times in the USA, of which neither property was listed elsewhere that I could find. Earlier this year I tried to book a third property for this coming autumn but Airbnb now requests a copy of my passport, which I am unwilling to give (I believe one had to have booked three times with Airbnb before to have qualified without passport proof, could be wrong?) Quite why I need to do this is unclear, especially if the booking was about nine months in advance, paid in full with a credit card.

Like self-selected no grumps tour members with Rick, those posting on the Travel Forum are likely more respectful when staying in nightly rentals. Not all guests staying in nightly rentals where I live exhibit respectful behavior and too many create significant problems as to noise, trash and parking. Most nightly rentals in this isolated location currently are not legal as to zoning, licensing and taxation. As for the high cost of housing depressing the expansion of nightly rentals, that’s not the case here. On the contrary, some purchases of properties are clearly in spite of this thought. In addition, another impact is very evident... affordable housing for middle and lesser income families is not available.

Bruce, you are correct; every situation is unique.

I posted the following in another thread about overtourism where the AirBnb question came up. It is equally relevant here. No matter how you parse the economics those of us who have spent our lives in Business know that so much of what passes for "accepted thought" about AirBnb is just not supportable by the numbers or the facts.

Regarding the AirBnb issue here. This idea that somehow the Arrival of AirBnb has affected rental rates and raised the cost of housing just does not hold water and is logically and economically insupportable.

If you have a vacancy rate in rentals of "X" % in a given area that means there are not enough renters to fill those units or renters that can afford them in that area. Thus they are vacant.

If renters are available and able to pay the price then those apartments are taken OFF the market at least for a year or more at a time. thus creating a rental shortage and raising prices for similar units across the board.

It does not matter if those rentals are taken by AirBnb or by renters they will be taken off the market. Period. If a shortage of rental units results and no new construction is being built in that area then you will have a price increase.

Most popular Airbnb's are in HIGH RENT areas where apartments are going vacant and most people cannot afford to rent there in any case. AirBnb is not raising rental rates it is actually moving capital where it is best utilized.

In almost every case out of the 11 AirBnbs I stayed in on my 4 month trip through Europe those in major cities were in areas where similar apartments cost well over 200 THOUSAND to 400 THOUSAND Euros. If you do the math no one will get rich buying one of those to turn into a an Airbnb that rents for less than 100€ a night. (which all of mine were)

Your vacancy rate determines the market for rental prices it does not matter whether that vacancy rate is made smaller by renters or travellers that pushes up prices. In fact rental prices as do mortgages rise over time in any case with or with out these factors.

If landlords were able to take a long term renter over an AirBnb which entails a LOT of work, (cleaning every other day, linens, and communication, I am sure they would do it. But the effect to the housing market would be the same. Fewer places available.

This is not an AiBnb problem it is a "utilization of capital" problem and the market is seeking the best use of that capital.

aarthurperry, you have no idea how much i would like to agree with you. But to do so would be to say Europe is a place. Its not, its a collection of places, each unique. I imagine that there are indeed places like what the alarmist describe. For those I leave it to the citizens in the democracy to decide what to do and i just obey their laws.

I do have one situation that i know first hand. Picture a country coming out from under Russian domination and communism. When the sun rose, everyone inherited the home that they had been assigned. By most western standards, these weren't nice home. They were run down on day one, and because of corruption and low wages there was no means to repair them. Notice we arent talking about renters here, they were owners. Broke other than the value of their apartment.

Along comes capitalism and democracy and most importantly... tourists. When i purchased my first apartment for about the cost of a used Chevrolet Impala locals said i was insane to pay so much. The owner, an elderly woman, now had the means to move out of the city center and retire in the suburbs where everything was even cheaper.

Before long my street had maybe a dozen such apartments so a bar opened up on the street to serve them, then a restaurant, then a nicer restaurant. Then the people living in my apartment house had jobs near their homes with tourist wages. Then when the competition to rent increased I painted the outside of the building. Now those communism survivors in the house can purchase 4 used Chev. Impalas with the sale of their apartments.

Of course, things have natural cycles. The apartments on the street now cost many more dollars than what makes short term rentals practical. The rate of return in the best run apartment wouldnt exceed 2% at current values and so the short term rentals are starting to sell off and young wealthy local residents are moving in cause of the renovated buildings, good services, bars, restaurants, shopping, etc. They are wealthy in part due to the tourism of the last 20 years and they want these apartments, in part, due to the growth of the neighborhood because of tourism.

In the big picture of what is best for society, i dont see an issue in this one case. But i do believer that every situation is unique. So unique in fact that there is no way some guy sitting in Bohunkus, USA can begin to have an educated discussion on the subject; proven when they begin with "ALL".

I will now put my soap box back in the closet.

"...every situation is unique." True, I have seen a list pertaining to the Airbnb issue in Germany where in these cities local governments (we have the SF Board of Supervisors) have taken steps to restrict, curtail or eliminate Airbnb (what I think about that is irrelevant) ...

I don't recall the exact cities on the list but assume that Hamburg, Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin are among them with Berlin being most severe in curtailing Airbnb.

In 2016 I saw on a newspaper headline that the Berlin Senate had banned it. Since then it has relaxed that ban a bit...an ongoing issue.

And they should ban them if thats their will. I respect that and have no gripes at all. I love democracy...

The driving point is if so many cities in Germany ie, on that list , are considering restrictions, curtailments on Airbnb, something must have prompted such a level of dissatisfaction for those cities to end up on such a list. Basically, what is the nature of these gripes, how acute are they, which would stand to logic as different relative to each city's Airbnb situation. They may very well be unique but these cities do have a common, unifying factor.....the local government is considering or has taken action against them.

aarthurperry, you have no idea how much i would like to agree with you. But to do so would be to say Europe is a place. Its not, its a collection of places,

@James; our two views are not mutually exclusive and I re-read my post to make sure I didnt lump all of Europe together under the term "All"

And you are right Europe is a collection of VERY different places for sure. As I am sure you remember I just returned from a 4 month journey there.

But the Economics of the AirBnb situation is not going to change from place to place very much. Market forces don't care where the market is. What I wrote about vacancy rates is still the driving factor and it doesnt matter if those apartments are filled by long term renters or used as an Airbnb they are still off the market and contributing to the overall rental occupancy rate. Which undercuts the often put forth argument that AirBnbs are affecting the rental market to any significant extent. If there had been renters (a market) for those empty apartments they would not be empty.

Also the argument one hears so often is that AirBnb is pushing the lower income folks out of rental housing is absurd. As I pointed out most Airbnbs that are for rent as an "Entire Place or apartment" are in very popular neighborhoods where rents are astronomical with or without Airbnb. No one is going to rent a 300,000 € apartment for 300€/month. The only people missing out, if there are any at all, are those with the money to rent in the most desirable areas.

Now I am sure one can go around Europe and find exceptions to this rule. But then we are back to the vacancy rate being the driving force that determines rental rates.

Actually, we are very much in agreement. I just always push back on generalities just to make a point. Love your posts...

@JamesE...I thought we were but...well you know this AirBnb thing drives me crazy. But also I have to apologize if my posts come off a bit harsh right now... I am so incandescently angry over recent events surrounding John McCain's death I am nearly incapacitated. So please bear with me as I am afraid my anger is leaking through to other things.

And by the way...The same goes for me and what you write on so many subjects. You are oil on the stormy seas of this forum at times and always insightful.

No one is going to rent a 300,000 € apartment for 300€/month.

But when during pre-short term rental days when it was a $100K apartment, the landlord was glad to rent long term for $900/month because the cashflow numbers worked. And the bartender who works at the beach club used to be able to afford that instead of living 30 miles away from work

I live in a beach area where the short term rental market has impacted long term rental and sale prices since long before Al Gore invented the internet. The high end has always been for the rich people from Atlanta or Houston; but as tourism grows, you start to get the second and middle quintile of properties moving into the short term rental market and the people who used to be in those middle band displacing the bartender, who is now somewhere up by the Alabama border because that's what he can afford now. It's a stair step or a series of waves of displacement rather than a straight one for one displacement of locals.

Selkie, i would like to know where you live so i can get some feeling if that bartender is driving 30 minutes or 3 hours. You must have a very unique situation. I have lived in 6 cities in my middle aged life and each city had neighborhoods in all price ranges. Very unfortunate. Currently i live 30 minutes from work, but that's because burglar bars and ammunition have become too expensive ... and i had to move further out. I do have a bar tender that lives about 2 blocks from me though. Great bloke.

You are oil on the stormy seas of this forum at times and always
insightful.

Funny, i am usually compared to the burning bag of sh** one finds on the front door step in the morning.

Do not let the scare tactics of the professional AirBnb critics here deter anyone from this experience.

Arthur, I assure you that no one here is a "professional AirBnb critic" (I'm certainly not), and I resent your implication that they (we) are. Look at these posters' records. Most of them have thousands of posts, the bulk of them not remotely associated with criticizing AirBnb. It is possible to have an open mind and still not adore AirBnb the way you seem to.

Do not let the scare tactics of the professional AirBnb critics here deter anyone from this experience.
Arthur, I assure you that no one here is a "professional AirBnb critic", and I resent your implication that they are

.How are you so sure about everyone on this forum? What they do and Who they Really are, what their motives and associations are?

And if the remark doesn't apply to you then I am lost as to why you would resent the statement.

And of course there are well meaning folks who do disagree about AirBnb. But what I find so interesting about them is that by their own admission most have Never stayed in one. (as I read their posts here on this forum)

But having made that point I must confess my use of the term "Professional" was meant more that they "make a career" out of being critical of AirBnb not so much that they are actually being paid to do it. A significant change of meaning. I should have put the word Professional in quotation marks.

But when during pre-short term rental days when it was a $100K apartment, the landlord was glad to rent long term for $900/month because the cashflow numbers worked.

My guess is that the numbers you cite are very anecdotal and cannot be checked because we have no idea where you are talking about. But even at normal real estate rise in prices in most very desirable city center areas of popular destinations that price rise was going to happen over ten years anyway without the short term rental market.

aarthurperry

I love the discussions about "fair wages" and "fair rents" No one can define either. And from what point of view? The owner of the place or the person that is demanding use of the place under his terms... Sounds like an old and failed social system, but cant remember what it is called?

Actually the world would be a better place (?) if we gave from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs and forgot about personal objectives in life.

Where have i heard that before? Fred, help me here (i know you stay away from this sort of thing)

"And of course there are well meaning folks who do disagree about AirBnb. But what I find so interesting about them is that by their own admission most have Never stayed in one. (as I read their posts here on this forum)"

One certainly doesn't need to have stayed in an Airbnb to have an opinion about them or any other short term rentals. The discussion here and elsewhere is mainly about the over all effect of short term rentals on the neighborhoods in which they're located and their place in the huge topic under discussion in many places . . . .The Effects of Mass Tourism.

if we gave from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

Of course, you probably know that that sentence is an exact copy of the translation of a sentence from the "Communist Manifesto" by Karl Marx, but also paraphrases a passage from the "Acts of the Apostles". (I always suspected Jesus was a Communist sympathizer).

As for staying at "AirBnbs", I've stayed three times in a Bed&Breakfast in Steamboat Springs . I know the first time they did not use AirBnb; I doubt that they did the second time, either. They do now. I had a discussion with the owner about AirBnb. He likes it. They take 3% for a booking, which is less than he pays in transfer fees for credit cards, and AirBnb cover the card fees. So I can see from his standpoint that it makes sense, but for me, I booked directly through his website, thereby saving Airbnb's "service fee". I saved over a hundred dollars doing it that way. So, I have stayed in an AirBnb, but I haven't fallen for their service fee scam. And, by the way, he does collect the legally imposed hotel taxes either way.

Acts 4:32–35: "All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one
claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared
everything they had.

Easier to do when you live in near slavery and poverty. Which, now that I think about it, does describe......

hey jerry
we have done a couple airbnb's which were great. we had a bad situation in london, years ago, no longer on the site. was bad from beginning, she sent her 18 year old daughter to check us in with only one key, apparently out of country. claimed 2 bedroom. wow! 2nd bedroom was living room, dining room with couch and twin bed, coffee table. called owner no answer, lights out in bathroom except above sink, shower very slippery as a safety hazard, clothes left in washer for a while from other guest. lots more issues but after that horrible situation, i have no desire to rent thru them. our paris apartment was great. living in bay area i have seen the worst with neighbors renting their place and cops called for party harty people not invited and a mess insued. so i'll book a hotel. i know everyone has different likes and dislikes and to each their own. i'm on vacation to have a fun time and not worry about many issues that are out there with airbnbs
aloha

August 29, 2018 NY Times has an article (by Farhad Manjoo) on overtourism as an artifact of Technology. But the very first paragraph describes three disastrous AirBnB's. (Most non-subscribers get five Times articles a month to view free.) He goes on to survey problems with AirBnb in general, and in specific European cities.

https://nyti.ms/2LBZdRy

One certainly doesn't need to have stayed in an Airbnb to have an opinion about them

No certainly not. But it sure helps if one is to have an informed opinion based upon fact and experience.

Arthur,
I have never stayed in an AirBnB but I have a well-informed opinion because I own a vacation rental property that I rent out on VRBO. VRBO gets my support because it has built into its interface the tax information that law-abiding property owners need to present in order to collect room taxes from renters properly. AirBnB does not. AirBnB does not present taxes as an add-on; instead owners are expected to pay room taxes out of the room rate. VRBO shows room taxes as a separate charge and asks owners to upload their state tax ID number.

Almost every step of the way, AirBnB does its best to protect law-breakers and punish those who charge and pay applicable taxes.

And that is the biggest reason why I oppose AirBnB and will not rent through them.

The other reason is that I so much prefer the privacy and level of service one expects from a hotel.

So please don't lump everyone who disagree with you into one basket.

Repeating my above post

"The discussion here and elsewhere is mainly about the over all effect of short term rentals on the neighborhoods in which they're located and their place in the huge topic under discussion in many places . . . .The Effects of Mass Tourism."

and your response

"But it sure helps if one is to have an informed opinion based upon fact and experience."

An opinion based on fact and experience regarding the effect of short term rentals on neighborhoods would be more "informed" if based on actually living in the area being discussed and observing the changes long term rather than flitting from location to location over a mere 4 month period and passing judgement based on this tiny sliver of exposure

My guess is that the numbers you cite are very anecdotal and cannot be checked because we have no idea where you are talking about.

Easy enough to do if you look back at newspaper listings in my area from the 90s before all that moved online- you'd see listing for sale or rent in the same slightly inland buildings and even someone who is so blinded by their opinion that they have a hard time with simple numbers and facts could see how they've trended once you start pulling those kinds of numbers.

The NY Times article above:

The three disastrous AirBnb's only indicates that the author is a very poor judge when it comes to making purchases. First time i have ever heard of such a track record. I bet this getelman would have had the same experience if he used the same care in picking 3 hotels.

Otherwise the article was a pretty good opinion piece. Where the opinion was formed first, then the circumstances to support the opinion were listed. I havent met this gentleman named "Europe" who is afraid of tourism. I have met Europeans who dont, and Europeans who do love tourism. I have no idea which side represents the majority and the article didnt attempt to determine that either. I do suspect countries like Ukraine, Romania, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Moldova, Albania, Serbia, Bosnia; etc. probably would welcome more tourists and even more AirBnb's. But i could be wrong. Again, no numbers one way or the other. I saw the good tourism did for one country in the old Soviet Bloc and my impression is that the results of the tourism are well received.

I suspect that those democracies that feel too much burden from the tourism will enact legislation to less the impact. Maybe higher tourist taxes, outlawing AirBnb's and restricting permits for the construction of new hotels. Don't count on too much of that, as i suspect that in general the local populaces like the economy that tourism brings and they wont want to take a step backward. But how know.

And the concept that short term rentals have any impact on tourism numbers is sort of nutty. People who can afford to travel will not cancel their plans if a hotel room costs them $20 more a night. If there were no short term rentals, big investors would just come into the center of these cities, tear down historic old buildings and replace them with shinny new hotels. But, again, just my guess.

Almost every step of the way, AirBnB does its best to protect law-breakers and punish those who charge and pay applicable taxes.

@Marcia: This is an overly broad and insupportable statement.

Airbnb has taken steps to cooperate with regulations at every level when they can. But I tend to agree with AirBnb here that it is too diverse and complicated a system on a worldwide basis for AirBnb to become expert in ALL legal systems and ALL regulations and then end up doing what is illegal virtually everywhere and that is giving legal advice without the proper credentials.

From a legal standpoint AirBnb shouldnt be treated any differently than any other aggregator of services. Think about the rental car industry here for a moment; Would you hold Kayak or Expedia responsible for an independently owned Avis location in Bulgaria because they didn't register their car properly? No you wouldn't. Could they be reasonably expected to enforce Bulgarian law? No certainly not. But I hear people on this forum and elsewhere make this argument all the time about Airbnb. To me it's absurd.

If one is going to undertake to put oneself into business by operating a short term rental whether you are on VRBO or Airbnb it is that persons responsibility to comply with all existing laws and regulations for that business. It is not up to my advertising agency to make sure I have all the right permits.

AirBnb is nothing more than an aggregator/advertiser/payment clearance agency for a very large group of independent businesses. It is up to those businesses to take the responsibility to insure they are operating within the local laws and regulations.

Stop blaming the messenger.

I use AirBnB a lot. Just read carefully the description of the place, their policies, and most important, their reviews! Never had a problem.

"AirBnb is nothing more than an aggregator/advertiser/payment clearance agency for a very large group of independent businesses."

A bit more than that, I'm afraid, if they are asking for copies of passports or video profiles.

"...Airbnb is only an option, not the be and end of apt rentals...." As such there will be those choosing that option as they believe it best fits their travel style and plans, those who will weigh the pros and cons of that option, and those who reject it out of hand. (I'm one of them) Bottom line is that it is still an option, which is totally up to the individual's choice. It is an option that is here to stay, unless the local government votes to ban it in the city. Whether I find that pleasing or objectionable is irrelevant.

@ James...I don't know where that quote comes from, unless I read it in the original. Besides, I won't / don't quote Marx if it is by him. Marx is three years younger than Bismarck./

@Gunderson: AirBnb asks for your proof of identity documents to protect it's partners and YOU. It is one of the FEW places that actually make sure you are a real person, something more sites need to do. You also need to provide them with a phone number. I have never had a single bit of spam come to my email that I could trace to my association with AirBnb. I cannot say that about VRBO or almost any other of the online aggregators who pepper you constantly with endless "Offers" and "reminders".

No I am sorry but it is precisely that policy that sets it apart in positive terms and means you can deal with the hosts and they with you knowing that you are dealing with real people who are not just internet trolls, shadows or scammers.

The great thing about Airbnb is you can choose not to use them. Most well run apts are on several platforms.

On record Airbnb had my name, the same phone number and address I've used for many years plus my credit card information. I have two listed reviews from owners. I tried to book an apartment about eight months in advance. There's a wealth of information for them to sink their teeth into. How does Airbnb having a copy of my passport or a video profile - how ridiculous is that? - protect me exactly?

@Gunderson: Spoofing is a common practice on the web and is increasingly being used to use peoples online "Personas" to steal.

In this case AirBnb having your "Real" identity and proof of that means that there is less chance someone might try to book something in your name. i.e. it is much more difficult to get away with when "real" identity is easily checked.

Secondly it helps if you have a dispute with a host. By being a "Real" person not just an "Online presence" as you are for let's say booking.com, it means, in my opinion, you get dealt with with more confidence and directness than otherwise. I have had many many more problems with Booking.com vs my one problem with AirBnb. I contrast the difference and contend that much of that difference is due to the fact that Airbnb can depend on me being who I claim I am.

Also from just a fairness standpoint, If I expect AirBnb to vet hosts and ensure that they are who they claim to be and make demands on them for detailed identification then it is just fair that the hosts should have the same confidence about who they are giving the keys to their house to.

Aarthur, we will have to agree to disagree. Regarding spoofing, the problem is more of a concern for people renting from sites claiming to be Airbnb as opposed to any fake renters using Airbnb itself. It's the collection of unnecessary personal data I object to and how it might be shared. No company should have the right to know so much information about an individual making an online credit card purchase: in terms of privacy for a business, it should not request any more information than is required to complete a transaction. I agree, there's a certain risk with any rental, a lot more so for the host. As I stated previously, same name, address, phone number and credit card for over twenty years, two verified bookings already. What more do they require? - well, lots more now that I mention it. However, all the vetting in the world will not stop the odd place being trashed.

Airbnb's main third party partners include Facebook and Google, hardly strongholds of privacy and security. I would not trust that Zuckerberg chap with any brilliant idea of mine, he might want to claim it as his own.

One thing everyone has going for them is the European Data Protection Laws. Pretty extensive (and complicated) and AirBnb I believe is subject to these laws because it operates in Europe: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/priorities/justice-and-fundamental-rights/data-protection/2018-reform-eu-data-protection-rules_en

The emphasis appears to be on data protection, which can still be breached. You also have the right to access your data and have it changed or removed. By agreeing to Airbnb's terms and conditions, one explicitly agrees to the use of their personal data, even in Europe. The GDPR naturally does not stop any sharing of information whatsoever from the Americas to such places as China, Japan, India and Australia.