Advice for First Time in Europe

What a wonderful-sounding trip. My parents visited Europe for the first time when they were almost 60 (they were visiting me in England, where I lived at the time), and ever since then, they haven't been able to get enough of travel. I'm sure you'll have an amazing time.

As for the order of your countries, geographical considerations would suggest either England, Netherlands, Germany, Italy or the reverse. The standard advice around here is to take countries in order from least to most challenging - which means going to England first - but given what you say about your interests, I think there's an argument to be made for saving England for last. It's likely to be the most rewarding leg of your trip (because it's a lot easier to have meaningful conversations with locals when you share a native language), and you'll enjoy it even more once you've recovered from your jet lag and found your "travel legs."

It's easy and efficient to get between England, the Netherlands, and Germany by train (and possibly ferry). Southern Germany to northern Italy by train is also possible, although I haven't personally done it. http://seat61.com is an excellent resource about train connections within Europe. It's very UK-centric, and most of the pages focus on how to get from London to wherever, but all the information for other trips is there as well. See their pages on Germany and Italy for maps of some of the train routes you might consider:

http://seat61.com/Germany.htm#.VwJJQtIrLMw

http://seat61.com/Italy.htm#.VwJNsNIrLMw

If you decide to skip Germany, then it might be more efficient to fly between Italy and either England or the Netherlands. In that case, you can do Italy either first or last, and England and the Netherlands in either order.

Hi Liz...

How exciting for you. My tip to save some $$ is to rent apartments for the 2+ night stays (air B&B, VRBO, Flipkey, etc.). You can really save over hotels esp when considering that you don't have to eat every meal out. This requires you to live like a local and go to the grocery stores. Many of the apts have washer/dryers and if you're going for 3 weeks, this will come in handy. By all means travel light or you'll be sorry. We only travel with a 22'' carry on (albeit, stuffed strategically with packing cubes, etc.) and a lg tote for plane. It makes jumping on and off buses and trains much easier...not to mention going up and down subway stairs. Once you have your in and out airports figured out, you can lace the stops together. If you want to do Northern Italy you can fly into Milan or Venice and out of London. This may help you decide on your stops.
https://www.ricksteves.com/travel-tips/trip-planning/itinerary-tips

My other tip is to consider an airline credit card. Since you're from Phila., the most likely choice is an American Airlines Credit Card since they have flights from PHL to most larger European cities. (we are from Phila area too). If you spend $1000 in the first 3 months you'll get 30,000 miles free. We use our CCs for everything and have been to Europe 5x without paying for air. The card does have a fee, but waived the 1st year. All in all I believe the fee is worth it one you see the prices for flights in the summer! The flights are a huge chuck of your budget. You are far enough out to be able to accrue enough miles for at least one free flight.

The planning is almost as much fun as going! Happy Planning!

Speaking to budget - I've also found some awesome prices with airbnb - if you choose to go the private room vs whole apartment route, it's usually even cheaper. And we have met some wonderful people when staying in private rooms - sometimes they'll provide breakfast, we've had a few who have picked us up at bus stops/train stations (but usually we have to find our own way, which is why it's important to make sure where you stay is handy to public transportation!)..one lady even cooked us supper and took us for a drive to a little village when we stayed in southern France.

If you decide to go the airbnb route, I can give you my tips on finding the perfect one(I've had 20 stays at them since 2011). I commend you for following your dreams - I didn't take my first 'big' trip (on a plane) until 2008 (I was 35) and I am hooked (well, I was hooked before, but now I make sure to make it happen). One thing that stuck with me the most was we were at a birthday party for my husband's senior aunt, and it was after our first trip to Europe and there was an elderly lady who encouraged us to travel while we could - she had always wanted to travel and her husband always said...after I retire. Well, he retired at 65 and died within the year and she never travelled on her own. My dad always wanted to visit Newfoundland (he wasn't one for flying) and cancer took him at 65 and he never got to go with my mom...(wow, this got depressing fast! lol). So I hope you have a blast!

It's usually best to fly open jaw - into one city out of another - so maybe fly into London and fly out of wherever you end.

I find the best way is to make a list of the places you want to see, pin them on a map and pick the best route - some people tend to zigzag all over the place adding to transportation costs. Usually a straight line or circuitous route is best...fly into England, go to Amsterdam, do Bavaria, then northern Italy. People usually recommend NOT flying out of Venice as flights to the US tend to leave early in the morning, making getting to the airport a pain in the butt. I think Milan has good flights to the US (I've never flown in or out of Milan so no real knowledge there).

Actually, American Airlines has a flight from Venice to Philadelphia at 12:15 p.m., and you can easily get a bus to the airport from the Piazzale Roma.

Another alternative for lodging is monasteries and convents. Simple rooms with bath and simple breakfasts, usually a curfew of 11pm or midnight. This is especially good for Venezia. I once stayed in a "house for youth" in Como (they take all ages during summer), or hostels that have private rooms. I have never used airB&B. You can look at booking.com for an idea of what different types of accommodations will cost (they list everything from hostels, B&Bs, hotels, apartments, entire villas).

Great trip in the making!

"...we will have to be quite budget minded." Suggest you avoid Venice, Como, and other popular Italian destinations. Perhaps Italy is better in the off-season when it's a little cheaper and not so incredibly hot and crowded. You might check into options in the Dolomites (Italian Alps) which are easier to reach from Bavaria by train than the rest of Italy and probably less pricey.

Multi-country rail passes can add unnecessarily to your costs. Shop point-to-point rail prices instead. Look into day passes for getting around and from base to base. Keep your travel distances short if possible. From Maastricht you are not far from Aachen, Cologne, and some other interesting German destinations.

Monschau, a beautiful old town.
The Mosel River Valley and nearby Burg Eltz Castle
The Middle Rhine Valley (UNESCO World Heritage site and great spot for castle-snooping)
Prices are doable in these places. We had this reasonably priced Rhine-View apartment a few years ago in the riverfront town of St. Goar (home of Rheinfels Castle.)

Day passes for the Rhine and Mosel regions allow for easy getting around by train and bus and very scenic travel as the rails tend to follow the river banks.
Mosel River scene
Bacharach station

Hi Liz -
It sounds like this is going to be a well-deserved trip!

You're going to get a range of advice so expect to do some sorting it out to your own preferences. It's also sort of a big question that will take a bit of discussion. A couple of comments just to get started?

Given your possible challenges with staminia, I might take the less-is-more approach so as not to tire quickly? Packing up and moving around a lot can be stressful, and often it's more rewarding to stay put and get to know a location well than trying to shoehorn it 'all' in!

Small hotels are not a problem as they're everywhere - even in the cities. I often recommend hotels for first-timers as it can be reassuring to have desk service for support/questions, and how much time does one want to spend in a room/apartment anyway? And do you really want to cook on vacation? Not everyone does; I'm one of those. If breakfast isn't included in the tariff - it often is - it's still possible to save a few euro by buying fruit and pastries from a market. We also pack along a travel-sized hot water pot for instant coffee (it needs to be dual voltage, though).

You know how long you're going to feel comfortable staying with your friends so I'll leave that piece. Maastricht is a great spot as it's very close to Aachen, Germany: an old and very interesting town for a day trip. It's equally close to Tongeren: the oldest town in Belgium so take a look at that one? Cologne is another option. Anyway, you could settle into Maastricht for 5-6 nights or so and touch 3 countries.

Italy: summer is high season in Europe, and the most expensive time to go but you will, of course, be saving $$ staying with friends in England, and should be able to find budget accommodations in Maastricht so I might splurge a little bit on this one. In the Como area, Varenna is a really nice town, and you can day-trip to other towns around the lake by ferry from there, and to Bergamo (the old section of Citte Alta is VERY interesting!) or other locations by train. It's also a good location for flying home as it's only an hour by train to central Milan, and flights out of Malpensa (by train about an hour from the city) often come at better rates than some other cities in Italy. You could spend the day there before your flight home to see the Duomo and some of the other interesting old churches there.

A start?

I didn't find Venice crazy expensive - it is very walkable, tho I do find the vaporetto pass a great deal. We had a nice B&B just steps from the San Toma stop and about a 10-15 min walk to Rialto - for about $100 canadian a night. (Al Campaniel - we've stayed there 3 of our 4 visits). This was in mid-Sept after 'high' season, and the prices are likely higher in the summer. If you don't insist on a canal view you should be able to find something under $90-100 USD. You may have to book early tho.

And to get a better deal on food, don't eat near Rialto or San Marco (been there, done that!) - the prices are really inflated. You'd pay 3 times the price for a pizza. At Al Campaniel (http://alcampaniel.tripod.com/ ) breakfast was included and very filling, usually keeping us going until the afternoon. Hubby and I aren't big eaters, and were more than satisfied with sharing a pizza and a litre of water. If you want to keep a tight budget - you can buy pizza slices or sandwiches to go. Hit up a grocery store and grab the fixings for a picnic (just don't expect to have that picnic in St Marks Sq - that's a nono!)

Any place can be done on a budget - you just have to work a little harder to find cheaper accoms and eat away from the most touristy areas...for me a lot of the charm of Venice is getting away from the crowds. You don't have to go crazy paying for museums and sights - many of the beautiful churches you can pop into for free, and just walking around along the Grand canal and the quieter back alleys is lovely.

Summer will be hot and gross...I find afternoon breaks of a few hours during the hottest part of the day very refreshing. Another good reason for staying somewhere in Venice instead of in Mestre or somewhere out of the city.The busiest parts of Venice (Rialto and St Marks) are best enjoyed early morning (try going out at 7am and seeing them almost empty - then return at 10am and see the swarms of people) and in the evening when the cruise shippers and day trippers have vacated.

Cindy brings up a good point about the American Airlines credit card. Both you and your husband can get the personal as well as business versions of the card for up to four cards. This will give you over 120,000 miles. That will be enough for two economy class flights to/from Europe. My only advice on this is to do some research on playing the miles/points game. I recommend thepointsguy.com and onemileatatime.com for useful information on this hobby. AA has direct flights from Philly to/from Venice and London, so you can start/end in either city. The flight from Venice to Philly leaves around noon, so it's not like most other European carriers where you have to depart Venice at 6 AM. Also, if you are flying into/out of London using miles, the AA website will try to book you on British Airways. The problem with this is that BA has high fuel surcharges and you would be better off buying a plane ticket. You will also want to book award tickets as soon as they become available to get the best "price" using miles. You can book 335 days in advance. Since you will be flying open jaw, you can basically just book two one-way tickets. The miles required will be the same.

Should you choose to not get involved with the mileage credit card hobby, I would check on Emirates.com periodically for airfare sales. For the last couple of years, they have had really good sales from JFK to Milan ($800-1000 for two people total, not each). You can take a train from Milan to Venice or fly into London. Use skyscanner.net to find cheap airfare.

One last bit of advice - I would start in the south and move north. It will be warm/hot in Italy in June while England is not too warm in mid-summer.

First time to Europe will be wonderful but can be a bit overwhelming. Now of course your stay in England would be with your friends and on your own. But for Italy or other parts of Europe, have you considered taking a RS tour. One of the Italy tours or the 14 Day Best of Europe tour. The tours may seem expensive, and they are, but, they give you a wealth of stuff and information. Transportation is provided and subway tickets are given out in Paris and Rome. You will be taught how to use the buses and subways, advised on what to do and how to get there in your free time. Have local guides give you walking tours and have centrally located hotels. You need to plan your free time, but everything is taken care of, hotels, food, learn lots of stuff along the way from the guide and the local guides and sure not to miss the best sites and museums. Up to you, but it is stress free and it is a trip of a lifetime. The Best of Europe has Venice, Rome, Munich all included. If you can add more than 3 weeks you could then go to Holland on your own. Just a suggestion. I have been on 14 tours and to Europe on my own. Learned so much that I can now manage going to Europe on my own and not afraid that I am missing something. Have a save and wonderful time.

Hi bebe, I wanted to "second" Ann's suggestion of a Rick Steves tour for your first foray into European travel. I am signed up for my 7th tour this year.

The tour guides are great and I've really enjoyed the camaraderie that develops with the other group members. The busses are very comfortable and only half full so everyone can have their own seat if they wish. With the transportation taken care of, you can sit back and relax, read, listen to music, or talk to other tour members.

Hotels are small, often the ones mentioned in the Rick Steves tour books. Rick Steves tours are not like the "big bus" tours, they are much more independent and you don't feel like you're a group of cattle being herded from attraction to attraction.

If the itinerary says you're visiting a site, you're actually stopping there, exploring the area, not just driving by like some other tours (I've done them, not at all what I was hoping for).

I think it would be a really good idea to combine your personal travel in England with one of the tours Ann mentioned. Whatever you decide, I hope you have a great trip!

I loved my one RS tour.. and it was GREAT VALUE.. but by no means does it come near to be a budget travel trip.. so no..

Italy in summer. GET AC.. can not stress this enough.. leaving windows open for air is not efficient if air is still hot at night.. and if a light sleeper forget it.. cities are so noisey..

Do not need ac for Nederlands , UK or Switzerland ( there is always a remote chance you hit a heat wave.. but really those places have more moderate summer temps)

Book your flights open jaw.. into one city out of another.. not same as two one ways.. saves money on backtracking.

I personally would hate to stay in a place with strangers.. but could handle b@bs.. just a privacy preference.

We have found Venice pricey .. unless you stay off island.. which I think defeats the purpose a bit.. I would spend more on 2 nights in a good location there.. then cheap out and stay off island for 3 nights. . ( all my visits have been july or august.. so super high season)..

I will add some comments but would love some feedback from Liz as to which of the suggestions above interest them, and which are non-starters.

In particular, how do you feel about getting new credit cards to earn miles so you can fly for almost free ( assuming you don't use British Airways)! Many find that appealing, while others do not want to get additional credit cards or learn how to play the mileage game. ( it is not always easy).

Next, would you consider a Rick Steves tour for the Italy part? It kind of makes sense, especially if you want to start with Italy and end in the UK.

Whatever you decide on that, please do not drop Venice, but try to make it there as early in June or as late in September as you can manage, and stay at least 3-4 nights. It will always be crowded ( even in October when we go), but the heat will not be as bothersome. And consider an apartment for Venice instead of a hotel--- it will be less expensive, and you can save more by cooking for yourselves. Buying fish and vegetables at the Rialto Market is one of our favorite things to do. And if you really prefer a hotel, do not fall into the trap of booking one in Mestre (on the mainland) to save money. That is false economy.

If all you want to see in Italy is Lake Como and Venice, that is easy to do on your own, without the tour. Fly into Milan ( hopefully in Early June), train to Varenna for 3 nights. Train to Venice ( you have to go back through Milan). From there you can travel by train to Munich for your Bavaria portion, maybe with a 1-2 night stop on the way to break up the journey. Bolzano ( for Ötzi the Iceman) or Innsbruck would work.

Or you can fly to Munich. I love flying out of Venice and seeing the island unfold below.

Fly in to London - 3 nts
Train to York - 2 nts
Train to Edinburgh - 2 nts
Fly to Amsterdam - 3 nts
Train to Maastricht- 2 nts
Train to Paris - 4 nts
Fly to Venice - 3 nts
Train to Lake Como - 2 nts
Depart from Milan

Sounds like a wonderful trip...
If the RS tours are not in the budget you could look into GoAhead... It includes less, so you can be on your own a little more, but takes you to decent hotels and handles all logistics.
I would not skip Venice if I were you. It would be a shame to be so close and not go. I am also for staying in Venice proper rather than traveling back and forth. I have done both and would opt for less time and the experience of staying there. I am also a morning person, so to be able to get up early and wander around in the city before it is filled with tourists is very special. I try to do this on most trips, then go back to the hotel for breakfast .

I don't think that anyone suggested Rick's how-to book Europe through the Back Door. It will answer questions you don't even know to ask yet.
For your preliminary research you can save money by borrowing guidebooks from the library, but do try to get the most recent ones that you can. Then when your itinerary is clearer you can invest in your own copies.
If Philadelphia doesn't have a RS travel group maybe you could pm a few from your area and suggest a meet-up. I bet people would enjoy meeting you and helping you plan.
You can also, of course, post more questions here as you refine your itinerary..
It's wonderful to read that you are doing this!
All the best travels!

We tried to have a Philadelphia area group but I don't think it ever got off the ground. Even though there is not a current group, you will still get loads of information from the people on this forum. The best advice so far has been to get Ricks Europe through the back door. It has so much great general information, much of which you would never think to ask. Once you get that and come up with an itinerary, get his country specific books. So many little details that are incredible. If you belong to AAA, they also have some free Europe guidebooks. At least this will give you a start. You are so wise to do this dream of a lifetime while you still can.

Some thoughts.......
Three weeks is a long journey......... When was the last time you spent three weeks with your husband 24/7?
Underpack. Seriously, underpack. Being a luggage mule sucks the life out of a journey. Everything you need can be purchased in Europe so strive to underpack knowing you can find in Europe what you absolutely believe you must carry/pack with you.
The most valuable item you have while on your trip is time. Please spend your time wisely.
Strongly suggest you write down your itinerary DAY BY DAY and include the amount of time to be spent in getting from one destination to the next. Then add up all the time anticipated in getting from point to point. Are you creating an itinerary where your memories will be composed of transportation or are you willing to create an itinerary where your journey will create memories based upon whom you meet, what you see and the time you invest in each destination?
Keep in mind...... Slow down, you move too. fast, you got to make the moment last!
First Euro trip = greater opportunity for travel stress = higher probability of travel "glitches"

Liz,

As others have suggested, the first step will be to have a look at Europe Through The Back Door, which provides a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe. After you've decided on an Itinerary, use the country or city-specific RS guidebooks to plan your sightseeing in details. Those books also have good information on reliable local hotels in various price ranges, restaurants, transportation, etc. I'm sure Europe has changed a lot since the '60s and '70s, so your husband may also find ETBD a good read.

It's great that you're getting such an early start on planning, as it will give you lots of time to work out all the fine details.

As always the most efficient method would be to use "open jaw" (multi-city) flights, so that you don't have to waste time and money returning to your starting point. I'm sure forum members from your area will have some good suggestions on flights from your area. It occurred to me that since you'll be visiting friends, you might consider flying inbound to Manchester rather than London.

I'd suggest using a more "relaxed" Itinerary rather than a blitz as you'll enjoy the trip far more. I'm in my '60s too, and that works for me.

Would something like this work for you....

• D1 - depart Philadelphia
• D2/N1 - arrive Manchester (would your friends be able to pick you up from the airport?)
• D3/N2 - Manchester
• D4/N3 - Manchester
• D5/N4 - Manchester
• D6/N1 - Return to Manchester airport, easyJet flight to Amsterdam (1H:20M), then train from Schipol to Maastricht (about 2H:40M). They offer several flights each day.
• D7/N2 - Maastricht
• D8/N3 - Maastricht
• D9/N1 - Train to Munich (it's a longer trip at about 7 hours with several changes, but a departure at about 07:00 would get you to Munich at about 15:00)
• D10/N2 - Munich / Bavaria
• D11/N3 - Munich / Bavaria
• D12/N1 - Train to Venice (I'd recommend a direct train if possible, and the current schedules show a direct departure at 11:38, arriving 18:10 - while it's a longer trip, that one goes through the Brenner Pass and it's very scenic).
• D13/N2 - Venice
• D14/N3 - Venice
• D15/N1 - Train to Florence (about 2 hours, direct on high speed train)
• D16/N2 - Florence - you may enjoy THIS short video which describes one interesting experience in Florence.
• D17/N3 - Florence
• D18/N1 - Train to Varenna (Lago di Como), via Milan (about 1H:40M to Milan and another 1H:03M to Varenna). You may enjoy watching THIS short video. IMHO, this would be a perfect place for the end of your trip.
• D19/N2 - Varenna
• D20/N3 - Varenna
• D21/N1 - Return to Milan for one night
• D22 - Flight home

There are numerous possibilities especially with the Italy portion of the trip, and this is only one suggestion. As your research progresses, you may decide on different places.

There's a lot you'll need to "get up to speed on" before your trip but between the guidebooks and the forum group, I'm sure you'll be able to plan a wonderful and memorable holiday.

While you could combine self guided travel with a RS tour, you stated that your trip will have to be "budget minded" so it might be better to do it on your own this time as that will provide you more flexibility in managing hotel & food costs, etc.

Good luck with your planning!

I think Ken has a great plan.

My advice: Planning a trip can feel very overwhelming and even impossible, but, just stick with the research, keep reading, keep asking questions and it will all come together and by the time you leave you will feel confident with your trip.

Take the trip slow. Don't relocate less than three nights in any location. Use Tripadvisor to scout small B & B or family hotels. Read the reviews, check the map and surrounding accommodations to nail down great, and inexpensive places to stay.

You can do this trip on a budget. With research, you can get a pretty good idea of what you will spend on a trip. RS has a guide to what each country will cost per day in his guide book. You can add it all up in a mock planning- airfare, hotel, transport etc. Plan in thinking "nights" rather than days.

Life is short! We learned that lesson too, and have been traveling ever since. Have a fun time planning!

Hello!

I am so excited for you! No matter what, with an open mind and eager approach, you will have a marvelous first trip. Just tell yourself, no matter what happens, I am in Europe!

Just a note on the airline credit cards. I had one for 20 years and switched to a bank rewards card about 2 years ago. The airline card had become increasingly hard to get a booking done and forget it if you want to go somewhere popular on short (and by short I mean several months) notice. I have the Chase Sapphire card now, and can book a trip to Paris tomorrow if I want. I compared the rewards value on this card to the AA card I had previously and they are very comparable.

enjoy!