Actual experience vs info from books

Thank you! This is the best post I have ever read on this site!

How I've wished that people would stick to "only" their experiences! Sometimes it's blatently obvious what they are doing and sometimes they are flat out wrong in their advice, especially when they've "copied and pasted" something from a website and claim it as their own composition.

I feel sorry, especially for first timers, at their being subjected to this.

If this is you, please stop it!

Experience is great for questions like "How spacious are the rooms in Grand Hotel Leveque?", but often people ask questions requesting very specific information, such as "How many trains leave daily for Heidelberg from Mannheim?", or "What sites does the Paris museum pass not cover?". Some of the posters here are great sources of knowledge about Deutsche Bahn, but I would doubt if they memorized the time-table! Likewise, since many on this forum have probably acquired quite a travel library on their trips, I see no harm in looking up information, provided the poster doesn't claim to have slept in a hotel or ate at a restaurant when that is not the case.

Tom, I agree that at times you need to look at books for train schedules, etc., but let that be known in your post. But some posters let the public think that all their information is from their experience, it would be nice to know if it is from their experience or information they found in books, internet, etc.

In a like manner, if someone asks, "Which is the cheaper method to get from Heathrow to London?" or "What should I expect to pay for fish and chips in London", it's better to have someone who knows where to look, look it up than to rely on memory. Personal experience is great, but current information is better in such cases. I can tell you I spent X dollars on the train from Salzburg to London, but since that was 30 years ago the information would be worthless.

Advice is advice, not law. Sometimes people give advice based on something that happened to them that turned out to be a freak happening, not the norm. That doesn't make it wrong -- it was their experience. A lot of times if the poster is asking a question it's because they themselves haven't taken the time to do their own research or don't know where to look.

Lots of people ask questions that can only be found in a book or online--because they are too lazy to try to look it up themselves.

Two things that drive me nuts are:

1) People who never read any of the responses but insist on sharing their knowledge even though that knowledge has already been mentioned by five other people. If opinion's or experiences are asked, then share them. But if it's a fact question, and someone already answered it, why must you too.

2) People who don't read the question but have a need to share their knowledge--even if it doesn't answer the question. I recently posted a question about an airline and asked for people's EXPERIENCE with the strictness of that airline's carry-on policy. The answers I got was how to find that airline's publshed baggage info. That's not what I asked. I already knew the restrictions, I wanted personal experiences.

One other thing that bothers me here is when a poster asks a question then argues with the answer, as though all they were looking for was confirmation of their own ideas, not help. This happens a lot with itinerary questions. It might look on paper like you can get from point A to point B in a day, but if someone tells you that it's too long a drive and suggests a stopping point or another route, just take the information into consideration, don't argue about it.

And a lot of time is wasted by people who don't give full information in their question, such as why they have to fly into a certain location instead of another one, or go on certain dates. It's only after the question is answered that you find out enough information to give a more helpful answer.

Yes, sometimes information given comes from a website and is just copied and pasted. I confess, I use this method as well on occasion. Often, I do it when it's a website that people find difficult to navigate because the home is not in English. I can

a) look up the info and translate

b) provide a direct link to the English version

None of this is "personal experience" but I still believe it's been helpful to answer the question.

1) I've asked experience questions on this board and been sent internet addresses. I sometimes want to hear from someone who has stayed in Arezzo, for example, and used it as a homebase. 2) Everybody needs to learn to use search engines like Google or Yahoo! to look for information. If you find an official website, the information there is likely to be more accurate than what is available on the helpline. 3) When you are beginning to plan a trip, read a book and get your basic questions answered there. Then ask questions here. 4) When you have more than one question, please break it down into separate questions under different headings. Don't expect helpline readers to wade through a long multi-part question and give coherent responses. 5) Use the Private Message feature when your correspondence involves only that one person.

What Bill and I are trying to say is if the information you are giving is from a book, internet,etc., just let the people know. Yes, you need to use the internet for up to date info on train scheduled, fares, and etc. But a lot of time people want to know the experiences of other people not a post from a book. It's plain and simple~~just state from my experience..... or according to ..........

Interesting Robin,, I have nver really noticed this being a problem,, evidently you have.
I find most answers/posters here are pretty good( some are actaully heroic, posting nice detailed answers to the same questions again and again) , my only quibble being when someone makes a huge sweeping judgement about a place, and then you find out they were only there ONCE, for like 2 days... In that case they are entitled to speak of their experience, but I think they should qualify it.. ie" is Versailles worth a daytrip" answer" no , I hated it, the lines were long, it was hot, and the man at the train station was rude to me" ,, LOL

Lots of people ask questions that can only be found in a book or online--because they are too lazy to try to look it up themselves.

I'm sure there is a lot of that, but sometimes they just plain don't know where to look it up themselves - or they are looking at the wrong place. How many times has someone written in that they can only find one train per day (or only a few) between two towns. They have been trying to use the RailEurope website for schedules because they never heard of the Bahn schedule website (which shows dozens).

I have never been to Dachau, but if someone wants to know when they are open and how much is admission, I can point them to the KZ-Gedenkstätte website, which has current information. That's better than someone trying to remember from their visit three years ago.

Two sayings to remember:

1) Knowledge is not what you know, but what you know how to look up, and

2) Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; teach him how to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

Seriously, are we really having this discussion? I think it is refreshing to see perfect strangers try to help each other out with whatever knowledge they have. If it is not helpful, just be gracious and move on.

Every reply I've posted has been from my own personal experience. I think purpose of the replying to a question on the Helpline is to share recent personal experience, and to recommend new things. Often I know that a question can be better answered by reading one of Rick's guidebooks or a website than anything I can impart, and I recommend people look there. Perhaps it is a good idea for people to state their information is based on personal experience so no one make the assumption that everything stated here is an absolute fact.

I'm amazed by how many questions on this site are already answered, clear as day, in Rick's books. Are they too lazy to look it up or do they not want to buy it?

There is a LOT of information in Rick's books--so much that it is pretty easy to miss, especially if you don't know where to look. There are also people who find the helpline through google searches and have never even heard of Rick. There is also the fact that guidebooks get outdated and simply can't cover everything anyway.

Most of what I post is my own experience and opinion and (I hope) it is pretty clear when I talk about those things, using phrases such as "When I went to Rome..." or "I thought that..."

Factual stuff is better quoted from other sources, which aren't always user-friendly (train websites being a perfect example). Here, I would expect to see language such as "According to the Treintalia website there is a train that leaves Rome at 10:30am"

Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention (or too much attention!), but I'm pretty sure I've always been able to distinguish when someone is talking about 'book info' vs. personal experience.

I'd be interested to know what prompted this thread in the first place.

Not only do I say, "according to the Bahn website" (for example), I also provide a link to where I found that information.

Perhaps my question or thread on "how did you attain your travel expertise" prompted this new thread. As several posters pointed out, they do not consider themselves "experts" but do have travel experience.

I am interested in their experiences which could be considered expertise depending upon individual perceptions. How they attained that experience could include in-depth research using the Internet's various search engines (did you Yahoo or Google), providing links, actual travel as a child or adult, work, in-depth education and reading ( degrees, library research or an insatiable appetite for travel books), etc. I take whatever information I can get, process it, research it further, make a decision, and go forward. The only "gospel" I pretty much subscribe to is Rick's and Rick is not perfect. Yep, there are mistakes . . . let me tell you about laundramat directions in Baden-Baden! No, don't get me started. :-)

Rick provides this great Helpline service for all of us. How to use the information is your personal choice. Cheers to all and thanks for posting on the other thread.

I only respond to posts using my own experience. I will for example: list links for DieBahn, IDOS and I personally used them to plan my train trips, etc.

I would never put down a person that did not post from experience but went to the trouble on their own time to research and help someone with a question or a problem.

This is after all a Travelers Helpline board.

Pat, if you have a PC, right mouse click on any browser (Internet Explorer) screen and select "View source" to see how we are doing it. The text file (HTML source) that comes up has a lot of "unrelated stuff" on it, so it is best to look for a posting early or late in the thread, so you don't have to search so long. That will show you what we are doing.

I appreciate everyone's feedback, but generally speaking, I am looking for personal experience when I ask questions. I am know as a "research goddess" by friends, but sometimes I'd like to hear from people who have practice with that information.

But yeah, if you get it from a book or website, let others know. ; )

I'm going to say it again...please read the questions carefully before answering...

I have a current question looking for universal dual travel chargers. I know how to tell if a charger is dual voltage, I'm looking for a specific item.

Yet someone had to jump in to tell me how to tell if a charger is dual voltage.

And it's not just my questions. I see a lot of answers that have nothing to do with the question.

Please read the questions carefully, not just the headlines before answering.

Thanks Frank, you've made your point clear...again. You can either continue to post complaints that your questions aren't being read properly...or perhaps simply ignore the responses you consider irrelevant. Maybe someone else will glean something from the responses. In any event, I used a Kensington multi-voltage charger that was supposed to be compatible with everything from my laptop to my mp3 player. It was expensive and I had to pay extra for more adapter plugs for my equipment because they weren't included in the initial package. I kept losing them and all the other connectors that go along with it. The finally the power unit itself died after a flicker on the electrical grid. I went back to carrying a couple of adapter plugs and the individual charging units for my device....cheaper and less hassle.

Oh yes definitely, we used the RS books for Paris and Brugge and I do recommend them to everyone. But I am also a practical person and know that it is impossible for any travel book to have all the answers. That is why I think this helpline is so valuable. It should be used in conjunction with the guidebooks (in an ideal world). There are those people though, who for whatever reason, just don't like to read or can't be bothered with it. They just want an answer quickly. (secretly, I think its the youngsters). I have to admit though that I had never heard of Rick Steves til my husband moved over here from Washington 6 years ago. Shameful, eh?

oh I don't know about that youngster comment - I have regular interaction with American semester-abroad students and almost all of them have heard of Rick with most of those who've heard also carrying his books. Those who opted out of his books are going for shoestring guides like the Let's Go series (which, btw, is spot-on with it's food recommendations).

I have met MANY older (think 40+) folks who've not heard of Rick Steves than the other way around. Couple that with this age bracket being the type not to surf and know how to search a board, and I'd be willing to bet it's mostly the 40+ crowd who's at a loss.

In any case, I post from experience, usually personal. If it's not, I say so and agree w/PP that you should (except for train schedules, I mean, that's a gimmie!).

Tim of Minot is an excellent example of useful, clear travel info regarding transportation..i never thought to ask if he'd actually taken the , for ex. train from here to there, and never exepected him to preface each entry with "i got this info from.."...Sometimes people ask about what to see in Paris and once in awhile i'll answer by suggesting an "i want to see, but haven't yet had time"...so, dreaming doesn't count as actual experience ..but i forgot to mention that i found the info in the august 25th editon of LE FIGARO...
I Do understand the point of the question however; it's lovely to share stories..especially when they're yours...and as previously posted there are people who do enjoy doing your homework for you...take your chances

uh, the youngster comment was supposed to be a joke. Guess it didn't come off too well.

I really would like to know what prompted this post. I sometimes purposefully answer with information that I get from a book or website. Something like "how long does it take to get from Tuscany region to Rome?". I will look it up and also, hopefully gentley, let the poster know that they too could look up this info on viamichelin. I DO NOT answer with my actual experience because our trip from Tuscany to Rome took hours longer than it should have because of an accident on the road.

It seems that posters who are really looking for the "insider information" phrase their posts along the lines of "have you ever been.." "what was your experience with..." instead of "what is there to do in London?". And I haven't had trouble figuring out which posters I tend to agree with more than others. If the ones who have given me good information have taken it from a book it doesn't really matter as long as it works for me.

One more point - I too was wondering about the new posters here who seem to have never heard of Rick Steves or know that he does, indeed, have guidebooks with answers to some of the basic questions they have asked. It finally dawned on me as it did to poster above, that they were finding this helpline through a search, not coming to it from the perspective of "I like Rick's books, let's visit his site". Anyway, in that case it might be more than appropriate to direct them to the books so they can get a better idea of what they really want to ask.

Finally - I do like reading this board and trying to figure out where people are coming from - so I really enjoyed Audrey's post about where we got our experiences. I answer more questions about traveling with kids and what to wear than I do about train schedules because of my "expertise" - i.e. family European travel and my desire to look good in vacation photos! It makes me appreciate all the more the many posters who answer the other more specific questions with great detail.

Congratulations Frank...you've managed to sink to a new low with such an ignorant comment. Unlike you, I don't bitch and complain when well-menaing people try to help out...especially considering you actually got an answer that was ON TOPIC this time! You'd be surprised at what I know, Frank. Another thing I know...your manners are sadly lacking.

Karen of Atlanta makes a good point: it's a good bet that many new posters get to this Helpline via a Google search while planning their Europe trip and don't know that Rick has written books that answer many of their questions. I'm not affiliated with the Rick Steves staff in any way, but have talked to members of his staff who have told me this is their belief: that many questions by new posters on this board are asked by a person who has gotten to the Helpline from a Google search, and that many, if not most, questions asked here by new posters can be answered in Rick's books. This is why, in my own answers, I mention Rick's books and other links on this website in my answers to new posters, because they just got to the site through Google and know nothing about what's available from Rick and others.

Another point made by many on this thread is:Many of the questions asked on the Helpline can most reliably and accurately be answered if the Replier/Helper has the time to make an internet search or look it up in a book if they have a travel library.Sometimes that's the best way to get a good answer for the person asking the question.Examples are numerous and have already been given by others on this thread: 1. Questions involving train schedules--your experience won't help them.2. "Please review my itinerary questions", it's unlikely you've done the exact itinerary they're proposing, thus your experience isn't helpful to them.If they ask for a recommendation of a hotel based on your having been there, then you don't answer if you haven't been to that hotel; or, if appropriate in the context of their question, the Replier/Helper can say: here's a link to the ViaMichelin website and here's how you can use that website to get other hotel recommendations: nothing misleading in that.

I sometimes forget that not everyone has unlimited access to a computer at home. My mother-in-law has to go down to the library and she only gets a half hour. Some people are still using a dial up modem, paying by the minute and it takes them forever to pull up websites, etc. and believe or not, some people just aren't very computer savvy. So, I can see where they might come here and ask their questions and come back the next day and read them quickly. This is why I like to try and answer their questions. As to Rick Steves guidebooks having all the answers, lets ask those people who are searching for information about Hamburg and Hannover and Heidelberg (maybe its the "H's"?)if they have found what they are looking for. I mean I do roll my eyes every time I read a post asking what the weather is like somewhere, when the info is just a mouseclick away to find out for yourself. But I have to remind myself that maybe they just do not know how to find that info, otherwise they would. It is certainly easier to google something than to find this webpage, sign on, write a question and then keep checking back each day for answers. Well, that is just my 2 cents worth, if it is even worth that much:-)

Jo: Yes, exactly, if I know Rick doesn't cover it, such as Heidelberg, then I try to find an answer for them, either from my experience or by providing a link to an internet site or whatever. But when I know that what they're asking about is in a Rick book, I do sometimes ask them if they have seen the discussion in Rick's book--because this is his site and they came to the Board via Google, probably don't know Rick has books--and if they're planning a trip to Europe where they're going to spend $8,000+ then I think it's helping them to encourage them to spend $22 for an instruction manual on how to best do the $8,000 trip.

Yikes! You miss a day on the helpline and all sorts of discourse pops up! I've found that I respond based on my experience as best I can, but I often double check my own experience online, with maps and with other tools. I do this because memories are faulty. I've done the drive from Fort William to Oban, but did it really take me 4 hours or did I stop and take a million pictures? If I check the michelin I can be confident in my response. Sometimes questions come up that I can answer due to all the research I've done on Scotland for my trips. I've still not been to Highland Games in Scotland, but I know how to find out about them and have spoken with people about attending them. I think that is personal experience, but a different kind.

People who post questions to the helpline are looking for info. If you don't like the post responses then skip to the next one. Someone else reading the thread may find it useful.

Pam

I almost miss the stern Webmistress.

1. I wasn't aware this is a problem. I think it's pretty easy to tell who's speaking from experience and who's helping out from research.

2. I try to speak from my own experiences but I feel some responsibility to double check some information online before writing it here. Here's an example Norm will recall. Last summer I led the argument against International Drivers Permits because in my experience they are unecessary. Prompted by Norm, I researched the matter online and found they are required in Italy. I reported that at the time and have continued to do so - even though it is contrary to my experience.

3. Sometimes I do research when people have very specific questions and I know where I might find the answer.

4. Sometimes I guess - on the post about the possibility of visiting Positano and Amalfi in a single day from the Naples cruise port, I walked through my thinking - and said so.

5. Sometimes I relate what I have read. When someone asked about wineries in Paris, I related what I've heard about the single vineyard on Montmarte. I haven't actually tried the wine, but that's what I have read. So I said "supposedly".

And now I'm done. I agree this was an unecessary post and I hope I didn't, in some way, cause it. Because as a frequent poster I kind of took it that way.