A seriously insane itinerary - advice?

Wendy, That itinerary looks like something from the Amazing Race. Really it's a mess. I would stick to Italy OR Ireland OR Paris/Amsterdam. You don't have time to do it all.

The day you land in Rome, say it takes 2 hrs to get through customs and out of the airport, let's say 12:30. You'll want to be a bit early to the bus station, so you get there at 4:30. You are flying all that way just to spend 4 hours in Rome? Seems like an utter waste to me. You don't have to spend a week there, just a whole day or two would be good. Besides, about 5:00 the day you land, you're going to hit the jetlag and want to pass out, you really won't be in any mood to get on a bus, it'll be torture. I agree that the cousin should meet you in Rome, then you can head to Ireland.

Sat July 21 - fly AUS to ROM, 6 hour layover at JFK (ouch) Sun July 22 - land in Rome at 10:30, train to central station, see Pantheon, walk/taxi to Colosseum. Head back to station, take bus to Siena (leave at either 5 or 6:30pm) stay night in Siena near bus station. Mon July 23 - morning spent in Siena, pick up rental car drive out to Volterra in afternoon Tues July 24 - Volterra, countryside wanderings Wed July 25 - Volterra, then drive to Pisa to catch 5pm transavia flight to Amsterdam, arrive Amsterdam at 7 - check into hotel, dinner with cousin Thur July 26 - Day in Amsterdam with cousin Friday July 27 - Day in Amsterdam, catch 8pm flight Air Lingus to Cork, spend night in Cork at friend's house Saturday July 28 - Friend offered to take us out to Blarney Castle, then we can catch the train to Dublin in the late afternoon - staying the night in an airport hotel
Sun, July 29th - Fly home. Challenges - that first day maybe impossible. I am not attached to a particular hill town to base in, but my dh wanted to see Siena so if we fly from Pisa looks like Volterra is a good choice. We could also fly to AMS by easyjet from Rome but I don't know a good town to stay in between Rome & Siena - Orvieto? How could I make that work? Stay that first night in Rome, rent car the next day, drive up to Orvieto then daytrip to Siena with both nights in Orvieto? Easyjet leaves Rome to AMS at 6pm on that Wednesday so we would have a good chunk of daytime to wander back to the airport. Thoughts? Also - should we skip Cork and just go to Dublin? We have lots of starwood points we can use which would give us a free night in either Dublin, Rome or both, but the Sheraton in Rome looks drab and soulless and out of the center, however it does offer good shuttle options from/to the airport and the city center.... and its free. Free is good. = )

I think that your itinerary is too ambitious Wendy! You have to factor in travel time between destinations and with this plan you'll spend much of your time traveling from one destination to another. I'd consider spending at least one night in Rome, the bulk of your time in Tuscany, and then fly to Dublin for your flight home. Slow down, relax and enjoy your time in Europe!

Wendy So glad you are taking this well deserved trip to Europe! Please also consider how your health issues may affect your travel and modify your itinerary now. If visiting your friends/relatives is key to your health and happiness, then you may need to discuss your itinerary with your husband. As you already know, this is a seriously insane schedule. You have too many stops on this trip with only 8 days for visiting people and sightseeing. Even 3 stops (Tuscany, Amsterdam, and Dublin) is pushing it with your trip. The first itinerary item to reconsider is to have your friends meet you in Dublin instead of going to Cork. And stay only Sept 28th, or perhaps arriving late Sept 27th. Add whatever time you have saved to Tuscany since your husband wants to spend most of your time there. (See above.) You could base yourselves in Siena and take day trips or just outside Siena if you want a more country atmosphere. It is important to factor in your travel time to make sure you are not spending more time traveling than visiting friends/family or sightseeing. The steps below will help you see the amount of travel time for your proposed itinerary (or to narrow your choices). 1 - get a map of Europe and put your destinations on. How far apart are they? 2 - *get a paper or online calendar (wincalendar.com to make it easy to change)
* put in proposed international flights. Count the 1st day as a recovery day & the last day as a flight day (pack, check out, time to airport, 2 + hrs. waiting). Note: Do not make the return flight before mid day or you will be up before dawn! Continued below.

With this much lead time, maybe your friends / relatives could arrange to meet you in Rome, Tuscany, or Dublin. Skip Amsterdam and Cork, use your Dublin day to see New Grange or Glendalough. (I think you might find Dublin a bit anti-climatic after Rome.) We usually travel at a fairly fast pace, but your itinerary looks difficult even to me!

Continued from above. * plot the best route with your destinations or just figure out the travel time between each set of places. Add to calendar. * now figure out the travel times. For train, add to the calendar. For the train, go to bahn.de, English version. This will give you the actual time on the train. Read RS for purchase ideas. * for car, use viamichelin.com for drive time not distance. Then add wandering around time . * Bus schedules are more difficult to find but google city to city and BUS to find. NOTE: In Rick Steves "Country" Guides, he includes at end of his city chapters, a small section which details train, bus, flight, driving information (number of trains, or other to a common next destination, cost, and time). Very helpful! * below are factors most people leave out when figuring out their actual travel times. ** pack, check out of the hotel ** hotel to train station (airport) time ** wait at the rail station (airport) time (buy your train tickets from US or purchase at least the day before); for flight, depending on airport, 2 - 3 hours wait time ** train time; flight time; drive time ** train station; airport; drive outskirts to hotel ** check in, unpack ** get oriented, get lost
** Add all to the calendar. Note: This Travel Time List has been improved with suggestions from experienced travelers and long time posters. Please let us know how you modify your itinerary as you incorporate some of posters suggestions. Good luck! Bobbie

It was said above that you have 8 days to see things and visit friends and family. But you don't. You have, at most 6 and a half days. First day on the ground you will be a zombie. Pantheon is not easy walking distance from the Colosseum, certainly not in the heat of summer in Rome. You may be some of the few in Austin without A/C and used to the constant heat, but as somebody who lived many years in Fort Worth and Dallas, and with my niece in Austin, I can tell you that Roman summer heat can really hit you. In Texas we were always used to going from the air conditioned house to the air conditioned car to the air conditioned stores or work or mall, and searching for shade. In Rome the heat is everywhere. Very little is air conditioned, and what is does not cool very well many times. I know only a little about auto-immune diseases, despite having one, and of course i know nothing of your situation, but I have been taught that stress and lack of sleep can trigger attacks in some cases. Congratulations on your trip. By the title you put on the thread, you already know it is un-doable. Can I suggest you ask your friends and relatives to work with your constraints, ask them to meet you where you will be and not travel to where they are, chill out, consult with your husband, and enjoy what you have. Happy planning ...

Okay. Wendy knows this is untenable, right? Not expecting us to say, Piece of cake, you go visit as many places as you like in 8 days? Because it's no such thing, it is "seriously insane." Which she knows. To Wendy: You and yours have to set some priorities. If that is Sienna, or Tuscany, spend the bulk of your time there. Go there from the airport in Rome. Doesn't seem as though Rome is very important to you. Consider saying to your cousin, Coz, we just can't squeeze Amsterdam in this trip. If that's really really not what you want to do, then maybe A'dam and Coz are your priorities, not Italy. Fly from Rome to Amsterdam and plan a Dutch vacation ending in Dublin. Final variation: Treat Ireland basically as an airport. Fly there on July 29 (or 28 and spend the night, if your flight leaves early). You do not have time for everything on your list as you know and if you do not do the hard work of picking and choosing (which involves "no") your trip will be a lot less great than it could be. Given your investment of time and FF miles, you should make it as good as you can. That's my story and I am sticking to it--good luck & have a blast.

"seriously insane" . sorry you are right, it is .. and I mean this in a kind way,, you have to rethink it. Your rough year means you deserve a nice trip, not a hellish Bataan Death March . I frankly think agreeing to visit a friend in Amsterdam was silly and impractical.. your trip is SHORT and you want to visit three countries in about 8 days.. thats seriously crazy. Tell cousin to meet YOU in Rome, you are flying overseas,, she can jump a cheapo airline to meet you for a few days.. OR skip Ireland all together,, really just cause someone wants you to visit them doesn't mean it can be worked in,, I am with your husband on this,, this is alot of time and money being wasted to cater to other peoples visits.. A week in Italy sounds about right to me,

Wendy, I most definitely concur with the others that this plan is "seriously" too ambitious and perhaps not even possible. While I can certainly appreciate your need for a "therapeutic break" after your rough year, this Itinerary is not going to be pleasant or relaxing. Is there any possibility of changing your tickets to get a bit more time? As your tickets are booked, that leaves SIX days for travel. Covering three countries across a wide geographic area is NOT going to be possible in that time frame! It's important to remember that you'll be travelling in peak season, and it's likely going to be hot and crowded. While it's possible to plan a precise travel schedule, if there are "disruptions" in any part of this (due to strikes or whatever), that will effect the subsequent parts and the plans may come "crashing down" in a big hurry! Since your arrival and departure cities are already set, my suggestion would be to split the time between Italy and Dublin. You can arrange budget flights from Rome, Pisa or Milan to Dublin. One possibility would be to spend a few days in Rome to recover from jet lag and to see the sights you're interested in, and then a day or two in Siena, which is a good location for seeing Tuscany. Travel from there to PSA for the flight to Dublin (unfortunately, RyanAir is the only choice). I really DON'T think you'll have time to stop in Amsterdam. Your "dearly loved Cousin" can take a flight to Dublin if she wants to have a visit. Good luck with your planning!

I can most certainly understand your dilemma of having an unexpected and deserved short trip, and wanting to do the most of it. For a starter, I'd consider 22th and 29th "dead" days, to make no plans whatsoever of visiting nowhere. Leave them to the moment, if anything is possible. That leaves you with 6 full travel days - 7 nights - (wake up and sleep not in a flight). That is enough for just 2 destinations, I'm afraid. Instead of just making yourself overtired to "get a glimpse" or Rome, I'd skip it, go straight from the airport to Volterra, and divide the days between Toscana and Ireland. Amsterdam will have to be sacrificed as well. It is absolutely "insane" to see the Pantheon and Colosseum just from the window (of a car or bus, doesn't matter), and you don't have time to visit the whole place. If you "pledged" a visit to Amsterdam, the most you can do is to stay 4 nights in Volterra, 2 nights in Amsterdam and 1 night in Dublin, if visitng your cousing is more important than visiting your friend. But you will not have time to "see" much in Dublin. Bear in mind, though, that the Amsterdam stop "uses" 2 x half day = one day with the travel arrangements. That is 1 out of 6 full days you have. Even if things run super smoothly, it will be an hectic week and your memories will be more about racing to the airport or the n+m places you didn't enjoy because you were in a hurry. What I see is a potential expectation conflict of dear husband wanting to spend most of time in the countryside, and you wanting to spend most of the time travelling from a place to another. Just work something that is nice for you both and have a nice trip :)

Ah, your poor husband, by doing something romantic, has set you both up for failure. Now you'll both have to make the best of things. I say, stay in Italy, have the cousin visit there. Go to Dublin the night before your plane leaves, and have dinner with the friend. Have hubby agree to consult you before anything like this in future. Only bring it up when you really, really need to. So much for, "He never does anything spontaneous anymore!" He should be cut a little slack. Texans seem to have vastly different concepts of distance and travel time.

There have been some great suggestions here, but the one difficulty might be that tickets into Rome and out of Dublin may have already been purchased on "points", so the cities and travel dates are now "set in stone". Perhaps Wendy could confirm that, as it would be much easier to make specific suggestions it that's the case.

Tried to post last week, but for whatever reason the site kept kicking me off. Thanks for all the great suggestions - the overwhelming one being that all sorts of horrors will visit me if I try this itinerary. = ) I talked it over with the husband and its agreed that we are defiantly going to pass through Rome without seeing anything. You're right - not doable, and we can always go back and do it later. Since, yes these tickets are on points and therefore set in stone - I HAVE to fly into Rome and home from Dublin, so I will take the other advice to use Dublin solely as a stopover on the way home rather than try to spend any sort of decent time there. I left out the information that we have invited the cousin & her boyfriend to spend the week in Tuscany with us, but they are both young and can't plan that far out, plus I am not sure she will even be in Amsterdam next July, they may be moving back to the states - so if either of those happen then our hop to Amsterdam will be out. This itinerary is the tricky one, which is why I was asking for assistance. Someone mentioned above that my being Texan skews my perception of travel time, that gave me a chuckle. My father will drive 5 hours - have lunch with us - then immediately drive 5 hours home without blinking an eye. Heck - just to visit my friends on the other side of town its a good hour in the car and we do that all that time. To me, the idea of spending a day in transport to Amsterdam is absolutely worth a day with my cousin. Our last trip to Wyoming, Montana & Yellowstone was a week long adventure of 6 hours in the air, and 30 hours in the car, with a 4 year old and a six year old, and it was great! We had a fantastic time. So yeah - I think there is something in my blood that doesn't make me resent the journey to the destination. That said - I did take a lot of your advice to heart and am cutting it down.

Wendy... we all travel differently and you are getting advice from people telling you how they travel. So...many times I over do my locations and drive a lot of hours to go someplace different, and sometimes I regret it, but more often I don't. I usually don't make a lot of reservations so I can change my mind in an instant. It sounds as though reality has set in and you are cutting down a bit. As far as 'losing' your first day that never happens to me. Maybe it is just the adrenalin, but I thoroughly enjoy every minute of that first day and although I am ready to fall into bed that first night, I use that first day to the fullest.

With all due respect, it appears that you are not being honest with yourself, not being realistic, and not operating from accurate information. "yes these tickets are on points and therefore set in stone - I HAVE to fly into Rome and home from Dublin" No, you don't, and no, they're not. While I'm sure that making changes to your flights would require some effort, and could cost you a few bucks (maybe not though), if your current flights are going to wreck your trip (or even just make it a disappointment), why not invest a little time and maybe a little money and make the flights enable you to have a great trip, instead of one which you merely live through? Tickets booked with frequent flyer miles can be changed. There may be a change fee (typically $50-$100 per ticket). And of course you would need to find alternative flights that would serve you better. You should know that the vast majority of people waste most of the FF miles out of ignorance or laziness. You implied that you booked the only flights available next summer. That's nonsense. There are countless options available to fly to Europe using FF miles in the summer of 2012 - certainly many, many options that work much better than trying to work in an un-needed and (now) unwanted return from Ireland. It doesn't matter that you may be willing to drive two hours to visit friends across town. You're not going across town, you're going to Europe. Do you have the opportunity to go to Europe often? Might this be your only chance to go to Europe for a while? Then don't waste it. You have less than a week in Europe. Pick one country, and no more than 2 or 3 places within that country. If your dream is to explore Tuscany, then do that, and forget the notion that you're going to be able to do that AND swing by other countries. You can't. It's not realistic.

(continued) "I left out the information that we have invited the cousin & her boyfriend to spend the week in Tuscany with us, but they are both young and can't plan that far out" You're coming half-way across the world. They're already in Europe. They should come join you in Tuscany if they're still in Europe. Young, schmung. Why is it so hard for them? They've got the better part of a year to make arrangements. If they can't get it together to meet you there, fine - that's the choice they make (these are adults, right? not middle school children), but I certainly wouldn't wreck my trip if they can't be bothered to get from Amsterdam to Tuscany. I know this is not what you want to hear, and I'm sorry if this seems harsh, but you appear to be reading all the replies and ignoring them. The bottom line is that there is no reason for you to let your trip become the absolute trainwreck that it surely will be if you follow anything like your original plan. You do have other options. If you choose to ignore your options and all the sound advice that you've been given here, you'll have nobody but yourself to blame for having a trip you suffer through rather than the great trip that could have been. Hope this helps and apologies for probably bumming you out. But somebody needed to say it.

Sorry, but I have to agree with David. This is your trip, and a short one at that. Last year I was in Europe for 4 weeks, 3 in Italy and 1 in Germany (Bavaria). I have 2 cousins in Cologne, Germany and their mother is in Hannover, Germany. They are in the North and I going to the South of the country. I told them where I was going to be and when I was going to be there, and told them I would love to see them if they could meet me. They all made arrangements to come, although one cousin injured herself and couldn't make it. They are not inclined to make plans too far in advance and we just planned the trip that was best for us. If they hadn't joined us it would not have changed anything. This year I was in Europe for 3 weeks. I went to Barcelona for a few days and then spent the rest of the time in France. I did the same thing with my relatives as I did last year. Only one cousin said she could join me in Paris, and the other relatives were not available. I found out the day I traveled to Paris that my cousin was ill and couldn't make the trip. I had not planned the trip around her, and the trip did not need to be altered. Of course I was disappointed, but what could I do? My point - stuff happens that is out of your control. People get sick, injured, etc. How sad would it be for you to plan your very short trip around visiting someone that is nowhere near where you want to go, just to not be able to see her? If she really wants to see you, she will make the effort to come to you. If she can't make that effort, why should you? My opinion, change your flight home so you don't have to travel to Dublin, and spend your precious time where you really want to be. If you stay in Italy, you could spend a day in Rome seeing your highlights, and still have a wonderful stay in Tuscany.

David has said it very well. Please look into the cost of changing your tickets vs the cost of even a cheap airline to Dublin. Include the cost of the extra airport transfers to and from. Then include your vacation time wasted. What's cheapest?

What I tried to say 8 days ago, David has much more clearly articulated. Well done, David. Wendy, he speaks the truth.

change your outgoing flight to fly out of Italy, for what it is going to cost you to get to Dublin you will be better off paying to change your tickets.
Spend the time in Italy, most people do at least 2 weeks in Italy so your short trip already puts you at a disadvantage. Spend the time in Tuscany if that is your desire and take time to savor Italy, you can't really enjoy yourself if you are travelling the whole time.

Wendy, David provided an excellent and articulate response to your questions. I'd like to "second" the comment from Nigel - Well Done! How is your trip planning coming along?

Wendy, Andrea has a very good suggestion for you to deal with the relatives. Once you get your itinerary set (and hopefully paired down to just one part of Europe-North to Ireland OR South to Italy), you should send that itinerary to them and invite all to meet up with you. Good advice given here from all the posters. We're here to help and give suggestions; ultimately, it is your trip though. Linda

Just have to add my two cents in on this. When I first moved away from East Coast to SF years ago, every time I came home I would take my time from my vacation with parents to visit relatives and did not enjoy spending my time doing this. I finally realized it would be best to tell everyone when I would be home and ask them to visit at my parents and that worked so much better. As someone said, they can't plan that far ahead but they are adults. Let everyone know where you will be and when and if they want to, they will come. Don't feel guilty at all.