A more intuitive organization of the forums

Hi Diane,

I echo many thoughts you posted on the other forum posts about the website changes. A few things I would add to your list of forums:
I think we still need a 'technology' as well as a 'general tips and tricks' , so I guess that would make 20 total.

Also, you accidentally mentioned Czechoslovakia, instead of the Czech Republic.

I appreciate all the hard work that the webmaster and web designer put into the new site and I like that they have broken down some of the forums, but I agree it seems like a few too many. Whether or not they decide to shorten the list of forums up or not, I like that they are at least to listen. :)

Gretchen

Diane, I applaud your effort, and agree withylou completely. I have spoken out several times saying that dividing it into individual countries fragments the board too much and destroys the sense of community. And many others have said the same. But it appears that such protest is futile, as the Webmaster or whoever is behind this reorganization is determined to ignore there protests and turn this forum into a mini Tripadvisor.

The Nordic countries would seem a natural fit to group together, since most North Americans who visit there tend to stop in several countries. It's not too often that you read "We're planning a trip to Finland...". It's mostly "We're taking a Baltic/North Sea Cruise" or "We're doing a driving tour of Denmark, Norway and southern Sweden". But instead, we have 4 lonely forums spaced apart with only a few hits between them.

And Montenegro gets its own forum? Really? Who made that call?

I would rather see sub-forums for each country. So, when you click on Germany, you get Trip Reports, Reviews, Transportation. Same with the other major countries, plus the bundled countries. That would make more sense then the way it is now, with just 3 major divisions to choose from. The navigation has not been made easier, as you don't get an overview.

This forum, as well as its' organization and look is absolutely nothing like Trip Advisor, so I don't know why people keep saying it is, or that it is going in that direction. It has to be from people that don't use TA at all. TA is extremely easy to use and navigate, and is well organized. This just seems to have gotten quite muddled along the way, on the search for a change that would be helpful to the newcomer to the Rick Steves Website.

Diane,

im willing to give it a try. After all, its not like it cant be changed back or into something else, or added to if needed.

i can see that there could be some issues as mentioned, but again, there no reason the forum cant change if needed.

happy trails.

I agree about bundling some countires, but not as many as Diane suggests. Benelux and Scandinavia make sense to me. I like Austria and Switzerland each having its own forum. Transportation has to come back, it's more than a tip or report.
I also like Ireland separate from Great Britain, but Wales, Scotland, England and N. Ireland seem to fit together. Some forums may remain small and concise, but overall I prefer separate forums.

I agree with Diane. Italy, France and Germany need their own forum, but the others should be grouped in regional forums for all the reasons everyone has mentioned.

In looking at the new website, the "Explore Europe" section has the identical dropdown of countries as the Travel Forums. Synchronizing these two lists seems to be logical. But functionally, it does not seem to be necessary.

If you click on a country under "Explore Europe" ... i.e. Belgium ... you will see a listing of "Latest Belgium Travel Forum Posts." This functionality is obviously still a work in progress; currently they show one post from 2007, one from 2009 and one from 2012. But the important thing to note is that they drew two of the posts from the old "Transportation" section, and one from the old "To The West." So obviously there need not be a one-to-one mapping of countries in the dropdowns to make this work.

If you go further, and click on one of the towns (i.e. Antwerp) under "Places" on the Belgium page, you will again see old posts from both "To the West" and "Transportation."

So the capability exists to have a "Benelux" regional section under Travel Forums, and still be able to draw forum posts to the Belgium country page, as well as to the Amsterdam page, to populate their "Explore Europe" sections.

Using this same logic, returning the general Transportation forum makes sense. Users can post all of their transportation queries there, and the queries for Belgium transportation can be displayed on the Belgium page under "Explore Europe".

I think eventually the "Explore Europe" page would become the page that Jo envisions, a useful resource for users interested in a specific country (or city) to find forum posts, trip reports, and other information.

But in order to continue providing a healthy source of information to populate these pages, I think the forums need to return to an organization more user-friendly for both the people posting questions, and the people giving their time to post answers.

I disagree with the third assumption. I liked to go through all the forums in the old format, because you never know where something interesting would turn up. I think there are two kinds of users here: those looking for answers to a specific question, and those reading and responding for the entertainment value. The new format helps the former.

I like your ideas, Diane, they seem logical to me.

Stan also makes an excellent point, one Diane has brought up before, which is the serendipity factor that will be lost -- finding info that interested you that you didn't know you were looking for. I had bookmarked several threads in folders on my iPad for travel to Italy, Germany, the UK, Ireland . . . .looking up my bookmarks turns up only 404 notifications now, of course.

Omg Kim!! You're right!! All my bookmarks of great info collected over the years is now gone!! Un-frikking-believable. Great improvement.

George, now you tell me.... : /

Obviously the current organization of the forums is not intuitive to new users. General Europe is quickly becoming a catch-all.

Right now, there are a half-dozen posts about transportation, plus several single-country queries (3 about France alone).

Well, if everyone decided to post questions in the General Europe because that is the only place they will get answers we will have one huge Q&A area... and I am sure that is where most people spend at least a few minutes (so much for the improvements:)) Interested to see how this all plays out.

Well, since we're talking 'intuitive' organization here's my wish if I ran the world (er, I mean website).

Under main Destination Q&A I would change select country to select country/region and the options would be a total of 17:

1. General Europe
2. 6 Individual countries: France, Italy, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Turkey
   
3. 9 Regions: GB/Ireland (England, Scotland, Wales, Channel Islands, Isle of Mann, Ireland); Scandinavia/Iceland (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Iceland); Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg); Iberian Peninsula (Spain, Portugal, Andorra); Baltics (Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania); Alpine (Austria, Switzerland, Lichtenstein); Central Europe (Poland, Czech Republic,Slovakia) Balkans (Slovenia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo); Eastern Europe (Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Bulgaria, Romania).
4. Beyond Europe

Best of all, these would fit in the window with no need to scroll down.

Other topics like Transportation, Technology, Money, etc should show as Q&A forums, not as tips/reports.

And my biggest wish is that they would bring back the name Travel Helpline - I hate that they changed that.

Okay, I'll step down from my soapbox now. Hope everyone is having a nice day.

Speaking for myself only, yes, 'General Europe' is the one forum I am now coming to. That, and following up with a couple of Qs I've got on the go in one country's forum. I'm also not dropping in as often.

It was foreseeable that "General Europe' would become a catch-all - it's the path of least resistance... the easiest one to go to now.

Here's what my crystal ball also sees: users, especially new ones, will increasing start to ask a question in the country forum, then repeating it in 'General Europe' (more so than before, and it will be more difficult to spot the repeat); it will be harder to spot shills in the individual country forums and their presence will increase; and. as volume grows in 'General Europe', it will become harder to keep track of active threads to which we are currently contributing.

In addition, it's inevitable that many old dead threads will keep being resurrected in the less-frequented country forums.

I was a "lurker" for many years on the old helpline. I have a few observations. I love the redesign of the entire website. It looks fresh and welcoming. Kudos to the web developers. I was also encouraged to start participating in the forums by the redesign. I think its freshness made me feel comfortable contributing. That said, now that I've poked around a bit on different country forums, it would be much easier for me to check an "Austria/Switzerland/Liechtenstein" board or a "Scandinavia" board. I understand the desire for each country to have its unique place, but I feel that many countries might not get a lot of attention. Thanks again to the developers for all of their hard work!

I wish they would make then bulletin boards searchable and allow members to see their own posts and send and receive personal messages.

Tom, we've always been able to send and receive personal messages.

Tom, to send a private message you first have to be logged in. Then go to the person's name (I think it's in blue now) and click on it. You will then see the option to sent a Private Message. One thing I do really like about this redesigned website is instead of just getting an email notification that you have a PM, you can also see who sent it and what the message says in the email.

One of the the related things I don't like is that we are no longer alerted by email when someone posts a reply to our question.

After spending some time this morning poking around and going through the "select country" tab, I find it time consuming and annoying to continually have to use the back button to get back to selecting another country. And I have to agree that there are too many selections; regional categories seem quite appropriate in many cases, not only for new travelers, but for old regulars. And I see that transportation questions are being asked here and there, so I think the transportation link needs to return somewhere quickly visible, as these questions are being asked in so many places that the regulars will not see. I do love that the threads are on a single page. Also, 1/3 of the Travel Forum page is hotel and restaurant reviews for four select countries. Very little there. Couldn't those be placed in separate categories under tips and trip reports and that 1/3 be used for something else?

As a Newbie to the site and as someone who has never been to Europe, I would love to see a " list forum " or " best of forum ". A forum where posts would be, for instance, " List of Necessities for 5 days in Cinque Terre " or " Best Farmers Markets in the Dordogne" or "Common Mistakes of the First Time Traveler".

It would enable people to quickly find answers/educated opinions and then research on their own. It would also be great for browsing and being inspired to find out more about something you didn't know even interested you. And certainly there would be some healthy debates as well which I find to be both entertaining and informative .

I think many times new people to the site, myself included, start a thread without the knowledge of what the right questions are to ask. The knowledge of the seasoned travelers here is no doubt vast and a list forum would seem to be a good way to learn positive travel practices and maximize travel time and budget.

Or maybe I just like lists.

Tim, I think that's a great idea. But I don't know if anyone is listening... to any of us.

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Been saying can't make line breaks anymore for over a week and it hasn't changed.