Please sign in to post.

A lot of less or less of a lot?

I'm working my way through H.V. Morton's "A Traveller in Italy" (copyright 1964) and came across this passage that perfectly describes a dilemma I'm having:

I was met by a friend who had been asked to lecture at the University
and was staying in Pavia. He rushed me around from church to church,
casting scraps of information at me, as to a hungry dog, until I
refused to digest any more.

This is a familiar moment to most strangers in Italy. The riches of
the country, architecturally, historically, artistically, become at
times intolerable, and one envies the specialist who is interested in
only one period or history or in the work of one painter. Also there
is so much to see and understand that a guide almost drives one mad:
one must find one's own way in one's own time and make one's own
selection.

Thus my problem: I could cheerfully spend the rest of my travels in Italy at the expense of anywhere else. There is much too much there already for my past-best-used-by-date brain to begin to manage. Should I become as smitten with another country (or a dozen, heaven help me), and attempt to acquire, sort and file as much information, I'm afraid the old, overloaded thing will simply explode. Ka-boom. Mad as a box of frogs.

Are any of you so punch-drunk with a place as to have made it a singular focus? Is there something warped about choosing to know a lot about one place versus a little about a lot of places? Or maybe your heads can wrap around more than mine???

Posted by
23604 posts

I think it is a question of travel styles coupled with age/maturity -- or at least it is in our case. Our first couple of trips in the early 70s were limited time - quick hits to see more rather than less. The 80s, early 90s were with the boys on cruise ships hitting ports all around Europe. The cruises were great for seeing a port city well and over time we hit many of the cities two or three times. Now that the boys are gone we tend to be very slow and enjoy the cities at a very slow pace. But part of it is like coming home --- we have spent nearly a month over the years in London and Rome with less amounts of time in places like Madrid, Barcelona, Paris, etc. There is a certain comfort level returning to Rome or London and not worrying about a map. Now we are doing some river cruises. As we begin to approach our 80s we are slowing down some. No one style of travel will suit you from your 20s to your 80s. What works when you are 30 might not work as well as when you are 75.

Posted by
39 posts

It all depends on what you are looking to get out of it. My wife and I have done the cruise style of traveling and also done independent travel of Europe as well. We are now looking into our next trip to Europe for next summer. Personally, We will pick a couple of important things that we want to visit with our kids and focus our efforts there and not be run ragged from place to place. I have found before that sometimes I come home from a trip so tired I wasn't able to enjoy it as much as I might have wanted. Our next trip will focus on Denmark (where we have family) and then England. Even England has so much to offer we are now researching what is important to see and do.

The other thing is how will you get around? Will it be via train? Car? Are you a seasoned traveller?

Posted by
2021 posts

I had that idea about London and England. Used to go to London every year, I did take day trips all over UK and went to Brussels and France but London was my everything at one point-yes I was a Anglophile.

However, after awhile I realized I hadn't seen much else of Europe and decided to branch out. Spain was absolutely fabulous-loved the language(which I speak, the sun and the attractions) and it became my new favorite. Another year we went to Turkey which was a fascinating place to see. Now because of money and health, my overseas travels are stopped for now and I wish I had visited more places other than the UK. But what's done is done. Everyone has their own way of traveling, blitzkrieg or slow, culture or beach. No one mode is a fit for everyone.

Posted by
4066 posts

Each person travels her own way. Some like maximizing the number of places visited while others go for quality of time spent as opposed to quantity. I prefer the latter.

Posted by
16895 posts

If you have only yourself to please, then do so.

One thing that I like while visiting multiple countries is to see the cross influences - the Roman construction spread across half of Europe and North Africa, the similarities of Latin-based languages, the spread of the Renaissance, and works housed in museums far from their original home. For instance, if you love Leonardo da Vinci, you can find his architectural influence in chateaux of the Loire valley and major paintings in Paris, Krakow, St. Petersburg, and beyond.

You may still occasionally ask yourself whether what you're enjoying is the maximum in surprise, discovery, thrills, flavor, congeniality, comfort, relaxation, or whatever else you seek for your time and money. You could also add just one other destination to each Italy trip, such as fly to Barcelona, or Paris, or Prague for several days, and then fly to Italy for the remainder. Budget European airlines bring these distant parts much closer.

Posted by
3526 posts

Well for me, this doesn't have to be an either or question. Sometimes I like independent travel and sometimes it's nice to take a tour.
Sometimes I want to see many places and other times go back to a place I love and discover something new. You will never know everything about a place so I don't see why you would try to. That would overload my brain!

Posted by
16497 posts

Well for me, this doesn't have to be an either or question. Sometimes
I like independent travel and sometimes it's nice to take a tour.

Oops. The question wasn't supposed to be about whether to take a tour or not but diving deeply into into a singular country (or city) versus less deeply into many. Sorry if it came off that way!

Frank, I know exactly what you mean by that certain comfort level. It's like meeting up an old friend. You can dispense with the "getting to know you" stuff and get right down to the fun.

Laura, your comment about cross influences does make a lot of sense.

Posted by
2509 posts

I feel I'm on a time-crunching mission to see as much as I possibly can while I still can. At this point, I'm restless and feel I haven't seen enough yet. Although, I do have favorite cities that I revisit: London, Paris, Rome. This is why I like to take tours, usually RS, because they highlight the best side of various European countries and itineraries; I know one day, I will return and dive a little deeper into a country or city that has caught my attention.

Kathy, thanks for this thread. Laura, I appreciate your comments about the cross-cultural pollination, I think it's an important aspect of European travel. I love going places and seeing the Greek ruins or Roman ruins. Fascinating!

Posted by
2546 posts

To me, that is like saying “I love chocolate so why try any other flavors.” Don’t limit yourself. The world is big and wonderful with so many places to see and explore. We started out seeing the European countries but have since branched out to other continents. For us the clock is ticking as we are getting older and in time won’t be able to do this anymore. We just came back from Alaska where we white water rafted (class 4 and 5 rapids) and hiked 5 to 6 miles to a glacier (with a bad knee no less). I can foresee a time when this will not be possible. Life is a grand adventure and I am banking memories for when I am old and feeble and unable to go anymore.

Posted by
1026 posts

Thanks Kathy for a starting this discussion. I travel a lot for my work, so I have been fortunate enough to add-on a few days to get a taste of a place. I have so little vacation time, however, that I try to experience as much as I can of different places, rather than going back to the same destination for each holiday. There are places, however, that I do make multiple trips: Paris, Berlin, South of France, Vietnam and could see spending more times. There are other places: Italy and Spain that I want to explore more of the countryside.

This has me thinking now about where to go next :)

Sandy

Posted by
226 posts

While I've lived in London and a few Eastern Europe cities for months at a time, I tend to enjoy quick-hit trips when actually vacationing. I've done excellent "grand tour" trips to Switzerland and Italy by train (separate trips), Belgium-Luxembourg-Alsace by bus, multiple trips in England and Bavaria-Austria-Hungary by car and train. Several Romania trips by both train and car. I do like to re-visit places that I've been and enjoyed, as part of a trip that also explores new destinations.

I've noticed that I tend to follow similar trip itineraries in the U.S., unless I'm visiting family or headed for a "beach vacation" - and even then, I tend to like to visit different locales, not just hang out at the same beach for the entire trip. I'm planning a trip to Boston this fall, but having trouble sticking to just Boston - there's so much nearby to see and do, it would be a shame to miss.

Posted by
16497 posts

Good thoughts from all: thank you!

It's not as if I haven't been anywhere else at all (London, Paris, Vienna, Salzburg, Innsbruck, Athens, Amsterdam, Antwerp, Aachen, Munich, some stuff along the Rhine, Bruges, Gent, other odds and ends) but Italy has inspired the deepest dive. Even if going back to some faves - which I will - there's more new ground to cover there, more to read about, more to learn, than I could squeeze into however many days are left to me. It's a distraction, dang it, although not an unpleasant one!

Posted by
1878 posts

To each his or her own, if you want to go back to the same places go for it.

For me that would be a narrow approach. I favor a balanced approach, and have revisited multiple countries in Europe. But I also seek out what's new to me, my May 2018 itinerary with my wife (Poland + northeast Germany) covered not place we had been before. (Except Berlin which I had visited on business).

As more experienced travelers (18 Europe trips), we do tend to spend more time in a particular place and not cover as much territory.

Posted by
3941 posts

We've def learned to slow down after our first few whirlwind trips. My husband has realized that short of illness/death, we will be getting back to Europe over and over - and I now plan for longer stays (tho my husband will still say - do we REALLY need to stay 4 nights in 'insert place name here'. Yes husband, we do!)

I do find we will return to places that are familiar, but we sprinkle in daytrips to other places nearby. We will be returning to Venice for the 5th time in 10 yrs next year, but will also be visiting places we haven't seen, such as Parma and Ravenna and Padua.

Posted by
8920 posts

Its not wrong either way. Do what works for you.

The common advice is to visit a place like you're coming back, but the reality is that for most people, this may be the only time they will be there. So its not immaturity that makes some try to see a lot, its practicality. No doubt that people who can travel that much and that often would want more in depth experiences.

Posted by
4238 posts

I know exactly what you mean. My husband is from Croatia and I have been visiting there since 1977 on and off through this past summer. He moved permanently to the US in 1981. I have been at least a dozen times and each time I feel like I am going home. No map needed, our favorite restaurants are waiting for us, if no car we know the bus schedules, our favorite beach, and of course family and friends. I could easily spend every vacation there, exploring the old and adding in a new city or island. It has changed so much over the past 41 years but stayed the same. Does that make sense? But, on off years we visit other countries. As much as there is still so much to see in Croatia, we do enjoy our other trips just as much. Maybe you can strike a balance. This past summer we did 2 weeks in Poland then went to Croatia. It was perfect. Next year we are doing Lisbon in February then Quebec in August. The year after will be Croatia and ?

Posted by
4591 posts

The reason that tours came up is that they're the easiest and most efficient way to see a lot of different places in a small amount of time. We did a "Russia and Northern Capitals" tour in 1990 and went to several places(Scandanavia, Warsaw) that I would never have gone to on my own. I'm glad I went to these places but have no desire to return on my own.

Posted by
12313 posts

Probably a lot of less for me - but not only one country the rest of my life.

My personal preference is to see and do something I haven't done and/or seen before each trip. I also keep the trip fairly tight so I don't lose too much time to travel.

As far as sights are concerned. I study a lot to see all of my options. I have a rough idea but it can change at any time. If I feel I've had enough museums, I skip the museum in favor of another sight. It's the same with churches, ruins, castles, parks, etc. I want to know all my options so I know what I'm trading to spend time at a certain sight. Then I go with what seems to me like the best use of that particular day.

One thing I don't do is down days. I don't particularly need them. When I've tried including down days, I feel I'm wasting precious travel days and getting nothing accomplished.

Over time, I've shortened my distances traveled during a trip. I now visit marginal sights, from my perspective, that I might have otherwise skipped. That's mostly related to having a finite number of healthy years to travel and nearly infinite list of places I want to see. I now have to admit, to myself, I may never make it back to the area.

Posted by
15777 posts

After a couple of visits to Paris, London and Amsterdam, I finally went to Italy and fell in love with the country. Then I went to Spain and enjoyed it even more than my Italian trips. In between I managed to spend a couple of weeks in rural France and want to go back and explore more of that country as well. Last year I went to Greece and it's my latest love.

I'm having something of a similar debate with myself between returning to some of the places I love and going to new ones. I still have a mental list of new countries and cities to visit, but then I read a trip report on a place I enjoyed and all I want to do is return to it. Italy, France, Greece, and Spain are all inside my head clamoring "pick me, me, me."

Posted by
610 posts

It is such a battle for me between wanting to return to places I have loved already and wanting to see new places. Since we are pretty young and have a long wish list, right now we are usually visiting new places and including maybe one old friend in each trip. Sometimes I do envy people with a smaller range of interest, because it makes it so much easier to trip plan and make it through a wish list. The more I travel, the more I want to see and it extends far past Europe. Though I imagine Europe will remain my favorite due to my personal interests, I also have a deep desire to hike through Patagonia, go on Safari in Africa, explore different countries in Asia, trek to Machu Picchu, go snorkeling in the Galapagos, travel around New Zealand, swim with whales in Tonga, and on and on. But what a wonderful problem to have, no? I am very grateful I have had opportunity to see so much so far.

Posted by
11744 posts

The interesting thing, at least to me, on a return trip and “deep dive” is that we spend less time on sights and sites and more time living, walking, cooking, and simply enjoying the culture.

We are on our 8th trip in 7 years to Ortisei. Same hikes, mostly same restaurants and other venues, but enjoying a sense of being, of community, of continuity. The lifestyle is so very different from what we have crafted in the U.S. In a few weeks we’ll be in Lauterbrunnen for the umpteenth time and can’t wait to see what has changed, what is the same, and just enjoy being there. But we intersperse these favorites with new-to-us places. Friends say why back to Italy? Why Switzerland again? You’ve been to London four times!?!? Why? There is always something new to find in a familiar place whether a city or an entire country. And we’ll explore two new areas of Switzerland and one new area of Italy as well.

The only challenge I would give you is to make certain you go somewhere you have never been on each trip to Italy. You’ll never see it all and isn’t that great?

Posted by
11744 posts

BTW, I love that book and I thank you for recommending it. What insight it gives to how much and how little Rome has changed in several decades!

Posted by
503 posts

Hi Kathy, I absolutely do not think it is "warped" to choose to concentrate on one country, to see and learn all that you can and indulge in your passion for that country. While most people want to see as much as possible it is a very personal decision. To me, it's a bit like going to college. At the beginning you take a broad range of courses and hopefully, one area of study will capture your heart and you decide to major in it. So, have a lovely life as you "major" in Italy and should the day come when you decide to "minor" in another country, you will. In the meantime, enjoy.

Posted by
14915 posts

Pavia...that famous place connected with French history as it was at that battle where the Francis I (Francois I) of Chambord and Fountainebleau fame was taken prisoner.

On my trips I do a combination of visiting old and new places. In Central Europe I always go back to Vienna and Berlin to spend anywhere from 4 to 14 nights consecutively...sort of like a pilgrimage. In Germany and Austria I focus on language, culture, and history there. The places visited or to be visited include both cities and small towns, likewise with France. Because of family concerns, l limited my trip in 2014 to only two full weeks, staying just in Berlin and Vienna, flying SFO to FRA, then the ICE train to Berlin. After the Berlin visit, night train to Vienna, flying back from FRA.

Basically, it depends on the time factor plus one's priority and interest. On the most recent trips, say since 2015 I made it to Budapest for the third time, Brno and Slavkov, and to the Polish border towns.

I would suggest branching out but it all depends. I have a Canadian friend, also retired, a few years younger than I, who asserts that in traveling to Europe he could spend all his time in France, going not just to Paris, obviously, but to the east, north south, west...all over France for the entire 90 days allowed. He would do this as 90 consecutive days. His point is very well taken.

Posted by
16497 posts

The only challenge I would give you is to make certain you go
somewhere you have never been on each trip to Italy. You’ll never see
it all and isn’t that great?

Laurel, that is exactly what I had in mind! Some time in Rome would probably always be on the agenda, as it could take a lifetime to absorb all it has to offer, but to add some corners as yet unexplored as well. Some quality time in Varenna, for instance, is on the next itinerary. LOL, our dearly-departed Zoe - who spent all of her summers in Italy, and often repeated favorite places without a shred of boredom - said, "Get thee to Varenna!" and so I shall. :O)

BTW, I love that book and I thank you for recommending it. What
insight it gives to how much and how little Rome has changed in
several decades!

So happy that you enjoyed it! The one I'm reading now, though, is his "A Traveller in Italy", which covers more of the country north of Rome, and was written just a few years after the Rome book. Oh, and as you are a fan of London I'll recommend his "In Search of London" (copyright 1951) as well. His description of visiting Westminster in complete blackness during WWII (1940) in the company of the Dean and firemen stationed in the church 24/7, and the undercroft fitted out as an emergency hospital for air-raid casualties... I loved London; been twice and know that a third is in the stars.

And my thanks again for all of you who've generously kept the conversation going! More, please.

Posted by
10110 posts

Kathy - it's simply that Italy is so rich -- from both sides of the top all the way down to the tip of the boot, the heel, and over to both Sardinia and SICILY. So of COURSE I can understand how you could want to make the country a singular focus -- because within that singular focus, there is such variety to be enjoyed and absorbed. One really could "focus" on it for a lifetime and I'm sure not see everything.

I love the quote you used, very charming writing. Going to have to check this guy out!!

Posted by
16497 posts

Kathy, you need to watch "If today's Tuesday, this must be Belgium".

LOL, Enric! I've seen it but long ago so it's probably time for a refresh. Thanks for the link!

...because within that singular focus, there is such variety to be
enjoyed and absorbed.

Yep, you've hit that nail squarely on the head, Kim. 🔨